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Thread: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

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    Senior Member MessageOfTheCross's Avatar
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    Default Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved? Please post with scripture.
    For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by MessageOfTheCross View Post
    Is Catholicism Christian?

    Since Catholicism puts Divine revelation on the same level as "Holy Tradition" (the teachings of men) it is a mishmash of truth and error. So one could call it false Christianity. To post Scriptures in this regard would require a book at least as extensive as the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC).
    Are Catholics Saved?
    Only God would know. However, a Catholic who studies the Bible and compares the teaching of the RCC with it would probably leave that church.

    Many Catholics are offended at any criticism of the teachings of their church. But while many adherents of that system may be good, moral, upright people who want to do the right thing, the doctrines promoted by the hierarchy of their church are abominable to God. Anything which detracts from the perfection of Christ, and the perfection of His finished work of redemption offends God.
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    Senior Member Dino246's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    As "Catholic" is not in Scripture, it's a little difficult to post Scripture on the subject.

    Someone who fully believes and accepts Catholic doctrine inherently rejects justification by faith alone through grace alone.

    Someone who is a nominal Catholic may believe rightly despite what the Catholic Church teaches.

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Post scripture that says they aren't.
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Lo,

    it's common sense, you obviously know the history, then again, maybe
    you don't believe it...

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    Post scripture that says they aren't.
    "Aren't" what? Only God knows who is saved or not, so there is no point in going there.

    However just one Scripture should suffice. This Scripture is rejected by the RCC and the Council of Trent states that very plainly.

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8,9).

    CANON IX: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."



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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by MessageOfTheCross View Post
    Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved? Please post with scripture.
    catholics are not Christians...
    They pray to dead people ... Christians pray to God..
    They pray repitious prayers .. Christians believe Jesus when he said do not pray repitious prayers..


    Thats just two of many examples... Anyone who does not believe Jesus, who rejects His words are not Christians..
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino246 View Post

    Someone who is a nominal Catholic may believe rightly despite what the Catholic Church teaches.
    Anyone who calims to be catholic and does not submit to all the accepted teachings of the catholic church is Not a catholic...

    A catholic must submit to the teachings of the catholic church to be deemed a catholic..
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    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    The Catholic church teaches many things that are contrary to Scripture.

    Scripture refers to Jesus as the Word of God. Jesus refers to Scripture as the Word of God.

    I believe that the Bible is the visible representation of Jesus until His return.

    Therefore I believe that ANYTHING (including the Catholic church) that puts the authority of men above the authority of Scripture is not Christian.

    I believe that there are Christians in the Catholic Church; but I believe that the Holy Spirit probably leads most of them to leave.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    To be a CHRISTian is to follow Christ. Christ said not to call anyone on earth ‘father’. Christ warns they like to wear their tassels long, and take the most important seats at events. They pray publically to get the praise of men. “They order people to not marry and to abstain from certain foods.” Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man, yet they order you to pray to or through Mary. How can they be for Christ and against Christ at the same time? “He sits on God’s throne in the church and claims to be God.” I’ve seen with my own eyes people bow to worship the pope, and him gladly accepting it instead of correcting it. God did not appoint elders over more than one congregation- Christ is the only head of His only church.
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    No to the first one....and no one is saved without acknowledging Christ biblically.......Catholic dogma does not meet that qualification!

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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    A catholic must submit to the teachings of the catholic church to be deemed a catholic..
    That might be your definition of a Catholic, but that isn't the definition of Catholic held by most Catholics.

    Usually in debate it's good to make a distinction between "Catholics" and "official Catholic doctrine"... because the two seldom represent univocal beliefs.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    The Catholic church teaches many things that are contrary to Scripture.

    Scripture refers to Jesus as the Word of God. Jesus refers to Scripture as the Word of God.

    I believe that the Bible is the visible representation of Jesus until His return.

    Therefore I believe that ANYTHING (including the Catholic church) that puts the authority of men above the authority of Scripture is not Christian.

    I believe that there are Christians in the Catholic Church; but I believe that the Holy Spirit probably leads most of them to leave
    .
    I think this statement is both compassionate and realistic.
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    That might be your definition of a Catholic, but that isn't the definition of Catholic held by most Catholics.

    Usually in debate it's good to make a distinction between "Catholics" and "official Catholic doctrine"... because the two seldom represent univocal beliefs.
    Any catholic who does not submit to official catholic church teachings is not a catholic no matter how much they calim to be catholic.. The same goes for people who proclaim themselves as christians but at the same time disagree with the teachings and way of salvation revealed in the Gospels...

    Christianity is defined by the Bible scriptures.. Not christians..

    catholisism is defined by the official catechism of the catholic church.. not catholics..

    If there are any Christians still in the catholic church they are living a lie and should get out of that harlot church ASAP.. If they don't then they are offering public support for the catholic church and all the doctrines of the catholic church by publicly standing in a catholic church and taking part in the mass and other catholic religious practices..

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    Senior Member Sagart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by MessageOfTheCross View Post
    Is Catholicism Christian?
    Yes, of course it is! The three major divisions of the Christian Church are the Roman Catholic Church, the Protestant churches, and the Orthodox churches.

    Quote Originally Posted by MessageOfTheCross View Post
    Are Catholics Saved? Please post with scripture.
    Good Catholics are good Christians; bad “Catholics” are bad “Christians.”

    Here, from an official Roman Catholic source, is the gospel of Roman Catholicism:

    The Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible (1971) has the following note on Rom. 3:21-31,

    The justice of God is his mercy whereby he declares guilty man innocent and makes him so. He does this, not as a result of the law, but apart from it (v 21), not because of any merit of man, but through forgiveness of his sins (v 24) in virtue of the redemption wrought in Christ Jesus for all who believe (22-24f), No man can boast of his own holiness, since it is God’s free gift (27), both to the Jew who practices circumcision out of faith, and to the Gentile who accepts faith without the Old Testament religious culture symbolized by circumcision (29f).

    The Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible with the second edition of the New Testament (1986) has the following note on Rom. 3:21-31,

    These verses provide a clear statement of Paul’s “gospel,” i.e., the principle of justification by faith in Christ. God has found a means of rescuing humanity from its desperate plight: Paul’s general term for this divine initiative is the righteousness of God (21). Divine mercy declares the guilty innocent and makes them so. God does this not as a result of the law but apart from it (21), and not because of any merit in human beings but through forgiveness of their sins (24), in virtue of the redemption wrought in Christ Jesus for all who believe (22, 24-25). God has manifested his righteousness in the coming of Jesus Christ, whose saving activity inaugurates a new era in human history.

    The Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible with the second edition of the New Testament (1986) has the following note on Rom. 4:3,

    Jas 2, 24 appears to conflict with Paul’s statement. However, James combats the error of extremists who used the doctrine of justification through faith as a screen for moral self-determination. Paul discusses the subject of holiness in greater detail than does James and beginning with ch 6 shows how justification through faith introduces one to the gift of a new life in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

    (The New American Bible is a Roman Catholic Bible with Roman Catholic notes published by the Catholic Book Publishing Company in New York with both the Imprimatur and the Nihil Obstat.
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    Senior Member Ugly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Catholics always flock to Christian sites. Always argue how they are Christian. I've seen this more times than i can count. Yet when i've asked a Catholic why they are so intent on being viewed as Christians every single one of them denied that they were, stating they didn't care one way or the other. Despite spending hours and hours, on Christian sites, trying to prove how they are.
    The two-faced approach by the majority of Catholics i've met in this regard is enough to make me leery of Catholics as a whole, and that's not even counting the commonly held beliefs they hold.
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    Cause I've idolized my words
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    But it's comfortable
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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagart View Post
    The justice of God is his mercy whereby he declares guilty man innocent and makes him so. He does this, not as a result of the law, but apart from it (v 21), not because of any merit of man, but through forgiveness of his sins (v 24) in virtue of the redemption wrought in Christ Jesus for all who believe (22-24f), No man can boast of his own holiness, since it is God’s free gift (27), both to the Jew who practices circumcision out of faith, and to the Gentile who accepts faith without the Old Testament religious culture symbolized by circumcision (29f).
    This more or less corresponds to what is in the CCC, but you should carefully notice the terminology and how it deviates from Scripture.

    1. The justice of God is NOT His mercy. The justice of God comes from His righteousness and holiness, and before God can be merciful to sinners, the full penalty for sins must be paid (and was paid by Christ). Firstly the demands of justice must be met. Only then can mercy be offered.

    2. Justification is firstly by grace and declares the sinner as righteous before God. And that is because God IMPUTES the righteousness of Christ to the sinner who repents and believes the Gospel. Did you notice that there is no mention of imputed righteousness?

    3. Is holiness God's free gift or is it eternal life and the Holy Spirit which are the free gifts of God? Holiness follows.

    4. There is no such things as "Old Testament religious culture". The Old Covenant demanded physical circumcision for every person who was born a Jew or an Israelite.

    As you can see the RCC is confused about justification and promotes confusion by refusing to put forward what is actually taught in Scripture. That entire note is confused.

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    Senior Member Sagart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    "Aren't" what? Only God knows who is saved or not, so there is no point in going there.

    However just one Scripture should suffice. This Scripture is rejected by the RCC and the Council of Trent states that very plainly.

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8,9).

    CANON IX: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

    The opening post did NOT ask whether 16th century Catholics were saved; it asked, “Are Catholics Saved?” (The Council of Trent was held between 1545 and 1563). The official position of the Roman Catholic Church today regarding justification is nearly identical to that of the major Lutheran Synods—so close, in fact, that most laymen would not be able to discern the difference.

    Moreover, Thomas R. Schreiner, Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, in his commentary on Romans in the Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament series, cites the 1993 commentary on Romans by Joseph A. Fitzmyer* about 450 times. Until his recent death, Fitzmyer was a Roman Catholic Jesuit priest and professor emeritus of biblical studies at the Catholic University of America in Washing, D.C. Today’s ultraconservative Protestant Biblical scholars recognize their counterparts in the Roman Catholic Church to be fine Christian scholars—and indeed, they are!

    *Fitzmyer, Joseph A. Romans, A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary. The Anchor Bible series. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1993. 827 pages.

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    Senior Member JaumeJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Have all who study the Word read how the Great Whore is the Mother of whores? This bears some thought, meditation, prayer...

    It stands to reason, for it is reasonable, that when our Father calls His children our of the Great Whore, He will be calling them out of all of her daughters also, right?! I believe this, yes, I cannot avoid believing this.
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    Senior Member Sagart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    This more or less corresponds to what is in the CCC, but you should carefully notice the terminology and how it deviates from Scripture.

    1. The justice of God is NOT His mercy. The justice of God comes from His righteousness and holiness, and before God can be merciful to sinners, the full penalty for sins must be paid (and was paid by Christ). Firstly the demands of justice must be met. Only then can mercy be offered.

    2. Justification is firstly by grace and declares the sinner as righteous before God. And that is because God IMPUTES the righteousness of Christ to the sinner who repents and believes the Gospel. Did you notice that there is no mention of imputed righteousness?

    3. Is holiness God's free gift or is it eternal life and the Holy Spirit which are the free gifts of God? Holiness follows.

    4. There is no such things as "Old Testament religious culture". The Old Covenant demanded physical circumcision for every person who was born a Jew or an Israelite.

    As you can see the RCC is confused about justification and promotes confusion by refusing to put forward what is actually taught in Scripture. That entire note is confused.
    No! What I see are impudently arrogant uneducated men who have never even read the Holy Scriptures setting themselves up against Biblical scholars who actually know something about the Bible!
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    Senior Member JaumeJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

    Always remember, we who believe belong to Jesus Christ, not to Paul, not to Timothy, not to Peter, and not to any scholar, for scholars of the Bible have been proven way off the mark since the time our Lord was here on His awesome mission.

    Hear Jesus Christ, believe Him always, amen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagart View Post
    No! What I see are impudently arrogant uneducated men who have never even read the Holy Scriptures setting themselves up against Biblical scholars who actually know something about the Bible!
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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