Greek help (again)
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Strong's:
G3588 ho ho, including the feminine he hay, and the neuter to to
in all their inflections;
the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom).
KJV: the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------
ho ho, merry christmas..
G3588 ho ho, including the feminine he hay, and the neuter to to
in all their inflections;
the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom).
KJV: the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------
ho ho, merry christmas..
I missed your second question in my first response.
Moht t'moht literally means Death you will die; but Hebrew uses this construction as an emphatic. You shall surely die.
In Ge 3:3-4
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
KJV
Eve makes a distortion that is not caught in any translation I have seen:
lest ye die in the Hebrew is pen t'mootohn lest you be killed. God said nothing about killing them.
The serpent responds: loh moht t'mootohn You shall surely not be killed.
The serpent answered truthfully, using Eve's distortion of God's word to deceive her.
The only implication would be that "the sin" represents the totality of sins and "the death" represents the totality of deaths. Idiomatically those words were excluded in translation.
What it really means is that the disobedience of one man -- Adam -- had a universal impact on all of humanity, so that every person is a sinner by birth and every person is subject to death (the first and second deaths). And that is exactly why Christ tasted death for every man, and now offers the gift of eternal life to all those who will obey the Gospel.
What it really means is that the disobedience of one man -- Adam -- had a universal impact on all of humanity, so that every person is a sinner by birth and every person is subject to death (the first and second deaths). And that is exactly why Christ tasted death for every man, and now offers the gift of eternal life to all those who will obey the Gospel.
Keep in mind that in many European languages use of the definite article is required before nouns. For example, in French, you must say “la France” to refer to France, literally “the France”. In German, it’s not ‘Switzerland’, it’s “die Schweiz” (or ‘d Schwyz’ in Swiss German), ‘the Switzerland’.
Typically, when the language is translated into English, these articles are left out unless required by context. There’s no special reference with their use. Greek is the same way
Most definite articles in European languages come from an earlier demonstrative pronoun (in Modern English, that’s this, that , these, and those).
The reason a language can have a number of definite article forms is due to grammatical gender and case. In theory, if a language has three grammatical genders and four cases, you can have 12 definite articles in the singular and 12 in the plural for a total of 24 (that's 24 different ways to say "the"!). However, if you look at a paradigm chart of any given language, you’ll see that a lot of them fall together (typically, the masculine forms fall together with the neuter – more so in the plural forms), so rather then 24, it may really be only something like 6 or so.
English was like that as well at one time. The form “whom” for example is just the old Dative case form of ‘who’. “Them” as a demonstrative pronoun (Oh, them are real good!), though not considered grammatically correct English today, at one time, was fine providing it agreed with the noun. We have a lot of ‘remnants’ like that in English. With the loss of grammatical gender and, for the most part, grammatical case markers in English, there arose no need for more than one definite article and one indefinite article (our indef. art. has two variations depending on whether or not the following word begins with a vowel or not).
Typically, when the language is translated into English, these articles are left out unless required by context. There’s no special reference with their use. Greek is the same way
Most definite articles in European languages come from an earlier demonstrative pronoun (in Modern English, that’s this, that , these, and those).
The reason a language can have a number of definite article forms is due to grammatical gender and case. In theory, if a language has three grammatical genders and four cases, you can have 12 definite articles in the singular and 12 in the plural for a total of 24 (that's 24 different ways to say "the"!). However, if you look at a paradigm chart of any given language, you’ll see that a lot of them fall together (typically, the masculine forms fall together with the neuter – more so in the plural forms), so rather then 24, it may really be only something like 6 or so.
English was like that as well at one time. The form “whom” for example is just the old Dative case form of ‘who’. “Them” as a demonstrative pronoun (Oh, them are real good!), though not considered grammatically correct English today, at one time, was fine providing it agreed with the noun. We have a lot of ‘remnants’ like that in English. With the loss of grammatical gender and, for the most part, grammatical case markers in English, there arose no need for more than one definite article and one indefinite article (our indef. art. has two variations depending on whether or not the following word begins with a vowel or not).
You seem like a real nice lady so I'll share with you what I've found makes translating much easier 
https://thumb10.shutterstock.com/di...isolated-formula-set-vector-eps-525497113.jpg
https://thumb10.shutterstock.com/di...isolated-formula-set-vector-eps-525497113.jpg
If you really want to understand the definite article in Greek, read Daniel Wallace's section in Beyond the Basics of Biblical Greek. It is 90 pages long! I read it last year! It was tough going, but our Greek prof suggested we read it over Christmas. When I did, he was shocked that I listened to him and wondered how I got through it!
Anyway,
"[FONT="]Διὰ τοῦτο ὥσπερ δι’ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κόσμον εἰσῆλθεν καὶ διὰ τῆς ἁμαρτίας ὁ θάνατος, καὶ οὕτως εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους ὁ θάνατος διῆλθεν ἐφ’ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον—" Romans 5:12 Greek[/FONT][FONT="]
What Paul does is set out a chain of [/FONT]causality in 5:12a that exists between the sin of the first man (Adam) and the deprived and sinful condition of all the descendants of that first man, whatever their location, situation or claimed status.
He does not spell out the Biblical details of how sin entered the world - though later in the passage he speaks of Adam's transgression (5:14), trespass (5:15, 17-18) and disobedience (5:19). But by using the nominative articular ἡ ἁμαρτία in the first line of the verse, as well as twice later in 5:20-21, Paul personifies "sin"as a malevolent force that both is hostile to God, an alienates human beings from God. Further, because he uses the genitive articular τῆς ἁμαρτίας in the second line of 5:12, it may legitimately be argued that he was referring to "the sin of the first man" or "that sin" he had just spoken about. And by his two uses of the articular ὁ θάνατος ("the death") here in 5:12, as well as three times later in 5:14, 17, and 21, "death" is personified as a cosmic force that
1. brings to an end the material life and personality of a human being,
2. separates people from God, both during their earthly lives and throughout eternity.
Modern scholars don't talk a lot about the articular use of "the sin" and "the death", but Reformation commentators frequently spoke of "the death" that resulted form Adam's "transgression," "trespass," or "disobedience" as inherited depravity, or which became the basis for every person's sins and personal guilt. John Calvin, for example, insisted we need to "not the order in which he [Paul] follows here," for "he says that sin had preceded and that death followed sin" and so Calvin argued that as descendants of Adam, we do express natural depravity inherited from Adam, which has "corrupted, vitiated, depraved and ruined our nature." Calvin went on to say with respect to Adams' sin and its result:
"Having lost the image of God, the only seed which he [Adam] could have produced was that which bore resemblance to himself. We have, therefore, all sinned, because we are all imbued with natural corruption, and for this reason are wicked and perverse... the allusion here is to our innate and hereditary depravity."
NIGTC - The Epistle to the Romans, Richard N. Longenecker pgs. 256-258
Douglas Moo has some interesting comments on this verse, although not specifically to the use of the article nouns sin, and death.
He sees 5:12 as a transition line, keeping in my mind that the verse starts with Διὰ τοῦτο ὥσπερ δι’ which is three different phrases, to means anything from "because of this" to "final cause" Moo paraphrases 5:12 as:
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
"In order to accomplish this, [namely, that God has promised to save all those who are justified and reconciled through Christ], there exists a life-giving union between Christ and his own, that is similar to, but more powerful than, the death-producing union between Adam and all his own."
Paul's claim that "sin came into the world through one man" would have been nothing new to anyone who knew his or her OT or Jewish traditions. For the unbreakable connection between sin in Gen. 2-3, was a staple of Jewish theology.
Verse 12:b depicts the entrance of death as the consequence of sin, v 12c makes explicit that this death has spread to every single person. Finally, he points out that verse 12 is actually a chiasm.
A sin (12a) produces
___________B death (12b)
___________B1all die (12c)
A1 because of all sin (12d)
NICNT The Epistle to the Romans, Douglas J Moo, pages 317-329
[/FONT]
Anyway,
"[FONT="]Διὰ τοῦτο ὥσπερ δι’ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κόσμον εἰσῆλθεν καὶ διὰ τῆς ἁμαρτίας ὁ θάνατος, καὶ οὕτως εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους ὁ θάνατος διῆλθεν ἐφ’ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον—" Romans 5:12 Greek[/FONT][FONT="]
What Paul does is set out a chain of [/FONT]causality in 5:12a that exists between the sin of the first man (Adam) and the deprived and sinful condition of all the descendants of that first man, whatever their location, situation or claimed status.
He does not spell out the Biblical details of how sin entered the world - though later in the passage he speaks of Adam's transgression (5:14), trespass (5:15, 17-18) and disobedience (5:19). But by using the nominative articular ἡ ἁμαρτία in the first line of the verse, as well as twice later in 5:20-21, Paul personifies "sin"as a malevolent force that both is hostile to God, an alienates human beings from God. Further, because he uses the genitive articular τῆς ἁμαρτίας in the second line of 5:12, it may legitimately be argued that he was referring to "the sin of the first man" or "that sin" he had just spoken about. And by his two uses of the articular ὁ θάνατος ("the death") here in 5:12, as well as three times later in 5:14, 17, and 21, "death" is personified as a cosmic force that
1. brings to an end the material life and personality of a human being,
2. separates people from God, both during their earthly lives and throughout eternity.
Modern scholars don't talk a lot about the articular use of "the sin" and "the death", but Reformation commentators frequently spoke of "the death" that resulted form Adam's "transgression," "trespass," or "disobedience" as inherited depravity, or which became the basis for every person's sins and personal guilt. John Calvin, for example, insisted we need to "not the order in which he [Paul] follows here," for "he says that sin had preceded and that death followed sin" and so Calvin argued that as descendants of Adam, we do express natural depravity inherited from Adam, which has "corrupted, vitiated, depraved and ruined our nature." Calvin went on to say with respect to Adams' sin and its result:
"Having lost the image of God, the only seed which he [Adam] could have produced was that which bore resemblance to himself. We have, therefore, all sinned, because we are all imbued with natural corruption, and for this reason are wicked and perverse... the allusion here is to our innate and hereditary depravity."
NIGTC - The Epistle to the Romans, Richard N. Longenecker pgs. 256-258
Douglas Moo has some interesting comments on this verse, although not specifically to the use of the article nouns sin, and death.
He sees 5:12 as a transition line, keeping in my mind that the verse starts with Διὰ τοῦτο ὥσπερ δι’ which is three different phrases, to means anything from "because of this" to "final cause" Moo paraphrases 5:12 as:
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
"In order to accomplish this, [namely, that God has promised to save all those who are justified and reconciled through Christ], there exists a life-giving union between Christ and his own, that is similar to, but more powerful than, the death-producing union between Adam and all his own."
Paul's claim that "sin came into the world through one man" would have been nothing new to anyone who knew his or her OT or Jewish traditions. For the unbreakable connection between sin in Gen. 2-3, was a staple of Jewish theology.
Verse 12:b depicts the entrance of death as the consequence of sin, v 12c makes explicit that this death has spread to every single person. Finally, he points out that verse 12 is actually a chiasm.
A sin (12a) produces
___________B death (12b)
___________B1all die (12c)
A1 because of all sin (12d)
NICNT The Epistle to the Romans, Douglas J Moo, pages 317-329
[/FONT]
First, the Biblical was written in Koine Greek, not Classical. Not sure what ancient Greek is. As far as the article, a very diverse use of the definite article. But no indefinite article. So, it is a grey area, whether to translate as "a" noun, or just "noun," for some verses.
Koine Greek has 4 cases, all in the singular and plural, and in the masculine, feminine and neuter. So 4 x 2 x 3 = 24 different cases. But some of them are duplicates, like the Genitive Plural, which is the same for all three genders. In total, there are 18 different words used for what the word "the" suffices us with in English.
I didn't know Latin had no articles. Interesting, because the Romance Languages like French and Spanish have feminine and plural definite and indefinite articles, and they are based on Latin.
Russian and other Slavic languages (Ukrainian for sure!) do not have any kind of article. That's all I know, because my father understood Ukrainian and studied Russian for his PhD.
Articles in the Romance/Italic languages came from the Latin demonstrative pronouns (see post #30).
In Koiné Greek we see some leveling out and falling together of grammatical features from what we now call Classical Greek (ancient Greek) - ancient Greek interestingly was a pitch accent language - the diacritics (accent marks) among other things indicated the pitch of the voice. To give a sort of comparison, Japanese is perhaps the best known pitch accent language today. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's during the period Koine was spoken that Greek shifted from pitch accent to stress accent as it is today (that change may have happened later on in its development, but I don't think so).
Yeah, most Slavic languages do not have articles: 'KNEE-gah' in Russian can be 'book', 'a' book', or 'the book'; you have to translate from context as to whether or not you need an article.
In Koiné Greek we see some leveling out and falling together of grammatical features from what we now call Classical Greek (ancient Greek) - ancient Greek interestingly was a pitch accent language - the diacritics (accent marks) among other things indicated the pitch of the voice. To give a sort of comparison, Japanese is perhaps the best known pitch accent language today. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's during the period Koine was spoken that Greek shifted from pitch accent to stress accent as it is today (that change may have happened later on in its development, but I don't think so).
Yeah, most Slavic languages do not have articles: 'KNEE-gah' in Russian can be 'book', 'a' book', or 'the book'; you have to translate from context as to whether or not you need an article.