Greek help (again)

[notmyown]

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— (Rom 5:12)

when i look at this in the Greek, i see this:

Therefore, just as the sin came into the world through one man, and the death through the sin, and so the death spread to all men because all sinned-

am i seeing this correctly, that the definite articles are there? if so, what are the implications?

thank you.

 

[Blain]

Sadly I cannot read Greek but if you are seeing it correctly the word (The) is used there because that is how they spoke. The English language doesn't use certain words in certain areas but others like greek might use the word (the) in that place even though it makes it seem like they are trying to make it seem like they are saying something else.
Kind of like how some Canadians say eh after everything and how some branches of natives in Hawaii say yea after everything heck some even say yea in mid sentence like saying I was going to my cousins Brithday party yea and I almost lost it when I saw the cake.

 

[Magenta]

Sadly I cannot read Greek but if you are seeing it correctly the word (The) is used there because that is how they spoke. The English language doesn't use certain words in certain areas but others like greek might use the word (the) in that place even though it makes it seem like they are trying to make it seem like they are saying something else.
Kind of like how some Canadians say eh after everything and how some branches of natives in Hawaii say yea after everything heck some even say yea in mid sentence like saying I was going to my cousins Brithday party yea and I almost lost it when I saw the cake.

Eh?

Oh, Mom, I found this: In English, there are two articles: "the" is the definite article,and "a" is the indefinite article. Greek has only one article - sincethere are 24 forms for it, they couldn't afford a second one. The Greek articleis definite, and it is often translated "the," but it functions verydifferently from the English "the." http://www.ibiblio.org/koine/greek/lessons/noun2dcl.html

 

[trofimus]

The only death mentioned before I could find was the death of Christ.

But I am not sure whether it fits into the R 5:12, I have never read it in that way....

Maybe it can be a reference to chapter 4 or even further, where Paul mentions death and sin several times.

----

But it can be also as Blain said, not every "ho, hé" in Greek should be translated as "the" into English... depends.

 

[Hizikyah]

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— (Rom 5:12)

when i look at this in the Greek, i see this:

Therefore, just as the sin came into the world through one man, and the death through the sin, and so the death spread to all men because all sinned-

am i seeing this correctly, that the definite articles are there? if so, what are the implications?

thank you.

So they are all definite articles but not necessarily "the"


Note the difference between ἡ and ὁ


I think it would properly be “that sin” and “the death”


but in any case talking about some particular thing rather than generally speaking of something, as in “look at that cloud: rather than “look at any cloud”

 

[stonesoffire]

12 Here is how it works: it was through one individual that sin entered the world, and through sin, death; and in this way death passed through to the whole human race, inasmuch as everyone sinned.

This is the Hebrew to English.

This great salvation is much greater than we are hearing from pulpits.

So what has the Son of God, son of man passed down to the world?

 

[Muzungu256]

maybe the "the" means the original sin u see...... the being the definite way of describing that specific sin that adam did that caused it u see

 

[notmyown]

Sadly I cannot read Greek but if you are seeing it correctly the word (The) is used there because that is how they spoke. The English language doesn't use certain words in certain areas but others like greek might use the word (the) in that place even though it makes it seem like they are trying to make it seem like they are saying something else.
Kind of like how some Canadians say eh after everything and how some branches of natives in Hawaii say yea after everything heck some even say yea in mid sentence like saying I was going to my cousins Brithday party yea and I almost lost it when I saw the cake.

lol... sounds like British English, yeah? i lapse into that more often than i care to admit.

♥

 

[notmyown]

Eh?

Oh, Mom, I found this: In English, there are two articles: "the" is the definite article,and "a" is the indefinite article. Greek has only one article - sincethere are 24 forms for it, they couldn't afford a second one. The Greek articleis definite, and it is often translated "the," but it functions verydifferently from the English "the." http://www.ibiblio.org/koine/greek/lessons/noun2dcl.html

aannd now i'm more confused.

and thank you!

 

[notmyown]

The only death mentioned before I could find was the death of Christ.

But I am not sure whether it fits into the R 5:12, I have never read it in that way....

Maybe it can be a reference to chapter 4 or even further, where Paul mentions death and sin several times.

----

But it can be also as Blain said, not every "ho, hé" in Greek should be translated as "the" into English... depends.

right, all but the YLT leaves out the translation of ho, hé, so there's that? i wondered if there was any particular reason it's in the Greek, since in the same chapter the declension of "ho" is not there before the words "sin" and "death".

is declension of "ho" even right? lol

 

[MarcR]

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— (Rom 5:12)

when i look at this in the Greek, i see this:

Therefore, just as the sin came into the world through one man, and the death through the sin, and so the death spread to all men because all sinned-

am i seeing this correctly, that the definite articles are there? if so, what are the implications?

thank you.

I believe that the definite article before sin refers sin specifically to Adam's sin; since he was the one man spoken of.

 

[Blain]

lol... sounds like British English, yeah? i lapse into that more often than i care to admit.

♥

ya it also groups in with British English but I may have confused the two regardless though I still the think the word (the) in this situation is just a way they wrote it but I am not all knowing

 

[notmyown]

So they are all definite articles but not necessarily "the"


Note the difference between ἡ and ὁ


I think it would properly be “that sin” and “the death”


but in any case talking about some particular thing rather than generally speaking of something, as in “look at that cloud: rather than “look at any cloud”

you lost me.

are they diacritics, showing pronunciation? or does it make the meaning different?

 

[Magenta]

aannd now i'm more confused.

and thank you!

I see some spaces between words were left off. Do please excuse my shoddy proof reading skills My excuse is that I was somewhat distracted, being occupied with something else. And you are welcome. I had another thought (look out!!!) which related the how the JWs insert the article "a" into their John chapter one text to make Jesus "a" god and not just God. It is odd they would do that because it kind of makes them polytheists in a way Though of course that is the same charge Islamists make toward Christians due to our understanding of the Trinity. However, we know the word "a" does not exist in the Greek texts, so it really is clear that they insert it to make the text conform to their theology, since JWs reject the Deity of Christ

 

[notmyown]

I believe that the definite article before sin refers sin specifically to Adam's sin; since he was the one man spoken of.

thank you, Marc. so would you say this is a case for original sin?

and i'm glad you're here, because i wanted to ask you a Hebrew question. lol

in Genesis 2:17, would the literal be something like "dying, you will die" ?

 

[Hizikyah]

So they are all definite articles but not necessarily "the"


Note the difference between ἡ and ὁ


I think it would properly be “that sin” and “the death”


but in any case talking about some particular thing rather than generally speaking of something, as in “look at that cloud: rather than “look at any cloud”

you lost me.

are they diacritics, showing pronunciation? or does it make the meaning different?

No the letters are written that way, it seems complicated but it is rather simple. So there are 3 letters/words all used as "the definite article"; ho, hé, to or ὁ, ἡ, τό. We don't actually know the exact meaning as a word for word translation but we do know they are all talking about a patiucular thing. I could say "I want a car" meaning I want any car, or I could say "I want THAT car" meaning I want a specific car. "THAT" would be a definite article. Everyone gave really good answers and actually if you piece all of it togather it is descriptive in explaining the meaning. So to simplify the definite article is being used to talk about a PARTICULAR sin, as Marc pointed out propably in context Adam's sin, which brought "the" death to mankind. I hope that explains it better.

3588. ho, hé, to: the
Original Word: ὁ, ἡ, τό
Part of Speech: Definite Article
Transliteration: ho, hé, to
Phonetic Spelling: (ho)
Short Definition: the
Definition: the, the definite article.

 

[notmyown]

I see some spaces between words were left off. Do please excuse my shoddy proof reading skills My excuse is that I was somewhat distracted, being occupied with something else. And you are welcome. I had another thought (look out!!!) which related the how the JWs insert the article "a" into their John chapter one text to make Jesus "a" god and not just God. It is odd they would do that because it kind of makes them polytheists in a way Though of course that is the same charge Islamists make toward Christians due to our understanding of the Trinity. However, we know the word "a" does not exist in the Greek texts, so it really is clear that they insert it to make the text conform to their theology, since JWs reject the Deity of Christ

in Jn 1, as far as my little brain can see, it's the definite article used, so they ought to say 'and the Word was THE God'.

right?

 

[notmyown]

No the letters are written that way, it seems complicated but it is rather simple. So there are 3 letters/words all used as "the definite article"; ho, hé, to or ὁ, ἡ, τό. We don't actually know the exact meaning as a word for word translation but we do know they are all talking about a patiucular thing. I could say "I want a car" meaning I want any car, or I could say "I want THAT car" meaning I want a specific car. "THAT" would be a definite article. Everyone gave really good answers and actually if you piece all of it togather it is descriptive in explaining the meaning. So to simplify the definite article is being used to talk about a PARTICULAR sin, as Marc pointed out propably in context Adam's sin, which brought "the" death to mankind. I hope that explains it better.

3588. ho, hé, to: the
Original Word: ὁ, ἡ, τό
Part of Speech: Definite Article
Transliteration: ho, hé, to
Phonetic Spelling: (ho)
Short Definition: the
Definition: the, the definite article.

it does, and i thank you.

 

[Magenta]

in Jn 1, as far as my little brain can see, it's the definite article used, so they ought to say 'and the Word was THE God'.

right?

Biblehub interlinear says "God was the Word."

 

[hornetguy]

In the Modern Literal Translation, which is supposed to be a pretty close direct translation of Greek, it does not include "the" before "sin"...

"Because of this, just-as sin entered into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death has gone forth to all men, in which all have sinned."