God’s Sovereignty Decreed Man’s Free Will

[SovereignGrace]

Ge 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
KJV


We are created in the image of God; but what does that mean?

Certainly if a person looks in the mirror and claims ' I see God' he/she is either very arrogant or very confused!

So the image of God does not refer to physical appearance.

What attributes or characteristics do people share with their creator?

The best answer I can think of is:

The three characteristics that define personhood. and are shared by all three persons of the Godhead are: intellect, will, and emotions.

Mankind thinks, decides, and feels.

God thinks: Isa 55:8
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
KJV

God decides: Ge 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God feels:Ge 6:6
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
KJV


It makes little sense that God created mankind with the attribute of will unless He intends that we exercise that will.

Again, my Brother, its not the man who wills, but God who gives mercy.[Romans 9:16]

 

[preacher4truth]

Some were elects. God bless

All the saved were elected.

 

[notuptome]

All the saved were elected.

Elect because they received Christ not elected to receive Christ.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God has chosen before the foundation of the world that those who believe in Christ will inherit eternal life in heaven. Those who reject Christ will perish for eternity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[John146]

Elect because they received Christ not elected to receive Christ.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God has chosen before the foundation of the world that those who believe in Christ will inherit eternal life in heaven. Those who reject Christ will perish for eternity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yep, Jesus Christ is thine elect. Get into Christ through the gospel and you become part of thine elect, Christ's body.

 

[Grandpa]

Ge 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
KJV


We are created in the image of God; but what does that mean?

Certainly if a person looks in the mirror and claims ' I see God' he/she is either very arrogant or very confused!

So the image of God does not refer to physical appearance.

What attributes or characteristics do people share with their creator?

The best answer I can think of is:

The three characteristics that define personhood. and are shared by all three persons of the Godhead are: intellect, will, and emotions.

Mankind thinks, decides, and feels.

God thinks: Isa 55:8
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
KJV

God decides: Ge 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God feels:Ge 6:6
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
KJV


It makes little sense that God created mankind with the attribute of will unless He intends that we exercise that will.

It also doesn't make sense, to a lot of people, that God would give a law that people can't fulfill.

It makes little sense that God would tell people to turn from their ways and get a new heart and a new spirit when they have no power to do so.


What does make sense is if God lets us see our error so when we see His Truth we will know it is from Him and not from ourselves.

Behold, I set before you the blessing and the curse. The Blessing being Gods Will and the curse being mans will.

Matthew 6:9-10
[FONT=&quot]9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.[/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

Angela, you can call it "Concordance Theology" is you wish, but theology does not consist of merely looking at the specific words, but looking at them in context and then comparing Scripture with Scripture, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Now even though kosmos in John 3:16,17 is clearly shown to be the inhabitants of the world by both Strong's and Thayer's, Calvinists deliberately REFUSE to accept that meaning, because once they do so it totally demolishes Five Point Calvinism. So how have you personally tried to dodge the plain meaning of this passage? Do you continue to substitute "the elect" for "the world"?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Ezekiel 36:23-27
[FONT=&quot]23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


We have a will, its just not good. There is only One that is Good.

The whosoever who believes becomes those who were taken from among the heathen, those who were gathered from all the countries, and those who were brought into the land.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that's not sovereignty - that's hope

FAITH is the substance of things HOPED for. The evidence of things not seen.

In the HOPE of eternal life, which God who CAN NOT lie promised before time began.

Hope, next to the cross. Is one of the most important things God offers us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, my Brother, its not the man who wills, but God who gives mercy.[Romans 9:16]

All that says is Man can not WILL himself to anything.

Yet Jesus said it is the WILL of God that ALL WHO SEE and ALL WHO BELIEVE will be given eternal life and his assurance to be ressurected vs those who will be delivered.

IE, It is Gods will that we nbot only have a chance to see, but have a chance to believe.

I can not will myself to heaven. I do not have th power to save myself. Let alone will myself.

 

[celib]

How many times are people going to quote this out of context. I am going to say as long as Arminian Churches are going to teaching topically, since they teach their members topically or by looking for a verse that backs up what they what to teach. Thier people will never understand that the Bible is written in context, not topically, Joshua starts his inspired speech with the election of Abraham and the forefathers.

“Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem and summoned the elders, the heads, the judges, and the officers of Israel. And they presented themselves before God.2 And Joshua said to all the people, “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘Long ago, your fathers lived beyond the Euphrates, Terah, the father of Abraham and of Nahor; and they served other gods.3 Then I took your father Abraham from beyond the River and led him through all the land of Canaan, and made his offspring many. I gave him Isaac.4 And to Isaac I gave Jacob and Esau. And I gave Esau the hill country of Seir to possess, but Jacob and his children went down to Egypt.5 And I sent Moses and Aaron, and I plagued Egypt with what I did in the midst of it, and afterward I brought you out.”

The Lord took Abraham and led him, does not sound like much of a choice to me, man is subject to God, God is not subject to man.

Abraham was an elect, that does not means he leads everyone around, He only leads his elects to fulfill his plane of salvation, everybody else have to choose. God bless

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Abraham was an elect, that does not means he leads everyone around, He only leads his elects to fulfill his plane of salvation, everybody else have to choose. God bless

Abraham was an elect because he chose to believe God, and God accounted to him for righteousness.

Abraham could have said no,. And we would never know him, God would have just chosen someone else.

 

[BenFTW]

If you can reject a command from God, that proves the existence of free will. The very fact that sin exists is testament to free will. You cannot have salvation without man's free will in having initially rejected God and in turn, being in need of saving.

 

[valiant]

Angela, you can call it "Concordance Theology" is you wish, but theology does not consist of merely looking at the specific words, but looking at them in context and then comparing Scripture with Scripture, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Now even though kosmos in John 3:16,17 is clearly shown to be the inhabitants of the world by both Strong's and Thayer's, Calvinists deliberately REFUSE to accept that meaning, because once they do so it totally demolishes Five Point Calvinism. So how have you personally tried to dodge the plain meaning of this passage? Do you continue to substitute "the elect" for "the world"?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

but the world under your definition isn't saved, that's your problem. Are you saying God failed in His task?

You are mixing up God's general beneficence with His personal love..

 

[Hizikyah]

This is called "concordance theology," my friend. It's where you look up the word in English, then back translate into Greek, especially using Strong's . Because, you are talking about θέλω thelo, which really means "to will, wish, want, desire, enjoy." In fact, the word "to choose" is ἐκλέγω or ἐκλέγομαι. Τhen you are using the correct word.GRK: ἀγαθὴν μερίδα ἐξελέξατο ἥτις οὐκ
NAS: for Mary has chosen the good
KJV: and Mary hath chosen that good part,
INT: good part chose which not
Luke 14:7 V-IIM-3P

GRK: τὰς πρωτοκλισίας ἐξελέγοντολέγων πρὸς
NAS: how they had been picking out the places of honor
KJV: how they chose out the chief rooms;
INT: the first places they were choosing outsaying to
John 6:70 V-AIM-1S

GRK: τοὺς δώδεκα ἐξελεξάμην καὶ ἐξ
NAS: them, Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve,
KJV: not I chosen you twelve,
INT: the twelve did choose and of
John 13:18 V-AIM-1S

GRK: οἶδα τίνας ἐξελεξάμην ἀλλ' ἵνα
NAS: the ones I have chosen; but [it is] that the Scripture
KJV: know whom I have chosen: but that
INT: know whom I chose but that
John 15:16 V-AIM-2P

GRK: ὑμεῖς με ἐξελέξασθε ἀλλ' ἐγὼ
NAS: You did not choose Me but I chose
KJV: have not chosen me, but
INT: you me chose but I
John 15:16 V-AIM-1S

GRK: ἀλλ' ἐγὼ ἐξελεξάμην ὑμᾶς καὶ
NAS: You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed
KJV: but I have chosen you, and
INT: but I chose you and
John 15:19 V-AIM-1S

GRK: ἀλλ' ἐγὼ ἐξελεξάμην ὑμᾶς ἐκ
NAS: you are not of the world, but I choseyou out of the world,
KJV: but I have chosen you out of
INT: but I chose you out of
Acts 1:2 V-AIM-3S

GRK: ἁγίου οὓς ἐξελέξατοἀνελήμφθη
NAS: to the apostles whom He had chosen.
KJV: unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
INT: Holy whom he chose he was taken up
Acts 1:24 V-AIM-2S

GRK: ἀνάδειξον ὃν ἐξελέξω ἐκ τούτων
NAS: of these two You have chosen
KJV: these two thou hast chosen,
INT: show which you did choose of these
Acts 6:5 V-AIM-3P
GRK: πλήθους καὶ ἐξελέξαντοΣτέφανον ἄνδρα
NAS: congregation; and they choseStephen,
KJV: and they chose Stephen,
INT: multitude and they chose Stephen a man
Acts 13:17 V-AIM-3S
GRK: τούτου Ἰσραὴλ ἐξελέξατο τοὺς πατέρας
NAS: Israel chose our fathers
KJV: people of Israel chose our fathers,
INT: of this Israel chose the fathers
Acts 15:7 V-AIM-3S
GRK: ἐν ὑμῖν ἐξελέξατο ὁ θεὸς
NAS: God made a choice among
KJV: ago God made choice among us,
INT: among us chose God
Acts 15:22 V-APM-AMP
GRK: τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ ἐκλεξαμένουςἄνδρας ἐξ
NAS: church, to choose men
KJV: church, to send chosen men of
INT: the church having chosen men from among
Acts 15:25 V-APM-DMP
GRK: γενομένοις ὁμοθυμαδὸν ἐκλεξαμένοις ἄνδρας πέμψαι
NAS: of one mind, to select men
KJV: to send chosen men
INT: having come with one accord having chosen men to send
1 Corinthians 1:27 V-AIM-3S
GRK: τοῦ κόσμου ἐξελέξατο ὁ θεός
NAS: but God has chosen the foolish things
KJV: God hath chosen the foolish things
INT: of the world chose God
1 Corinthians 1:27 V-AIM-3S
GRK: τοῦ κόσμου ἐξελέξατο ὁ θεός
NAS: and God has chosen the weak things
KJV: God hath chosen the weak things
INT: of the world chose God
1 Corinthians 1:28 V-AIM-3S
GRK: τὰ ἐξουθενημένα ἐξελέξατο ὁ θεός
NAS: God has chosen, the things that are not, so
KJV: God chosen, [yea], and
INT: the despised chose God
Ephesians 1:4 V-AIM-3S
GRK: καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν
NAS: just as He chose us in Him before
KJV: According as he hath chosen us in
INT: as he chose us in
James 2:5 V-AIM-3S
GRK: ὁ θεὸς ἐξελέξατο τοὺς πτωχοὺς
NAS: did not God choose the poor
KJV: not God chosen the poor of this
INT: God did choose the poor
22 Occurrences

Ἐκλεγομαι has THREE basic meanings:

1. to pick someone or something, to choose (for oneself- making it a reflexive verb) This is John15:19 as below, and Acts 1:24, 15:22 and Luke 6:22. None of these has anything to do with us choosing God, and in fact, some of these verses say clearly, GOD HAS CHOSEN US! It doesn't get much clearer than that. "He has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world!"

"καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου"Eph. 1:4
"For he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world" Eph. 1:4 NET

2. to make a choice in accordance with significant preference, select someone/something for oneself. Simple Accusative. Includes: Matt 13:20; John 13:18, 15:16; John 6:70; Acts 6:5; Acts 13:17, 1 Cor. 1:27ff; Eph. 1:4; Acts 15:7; James 2:5; Luke 9:35;

3. gather in a crop, gather, Luke 6:44


Not one of the above meanings has us choosing to be saved. In fact, most of the above examples have to do with God choosing! Including choosing us! For example:

"If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own. However, because you do not belong to the world, but I chose you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you." John 15:19 NET

"εἰ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου ἦτε, ὁ κόσμος ἂν τὸ ἴδιον ἐφίλει· ὅτι δὲ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου οὐκ ἐστέ, ἀλλ’ ἐγὼ ἐξελεξάμην ὑμᾶς ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, διὰ τοῦτο μισεῖ ὑμᾶς ὁ κόσμος." John 15:19 Greek

"ἀλλ’ ἐγὼ ἐξελεξάμην ὑμᾶς ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου," where ἐξελεξάμην is the Aorist Indicative Middle, 1st person singular.

Hebrews 10:25 uses a completely different word - ἑλόμενος from αίρέω "to lift, take up" in the present, and "to choose" in the middles. When used with συγκακουχεῖσθαι, a present passive infinitive, it means "to suffer evil together, to suffer with someone. The infinitive is used to explain the choosing.

Neither of these words has anything to do with free will. ἐκλεγω does mean "I choose, select" but it is only used if God is doing the choosing or the church! αίρέω in the middle does mean "to choose" but it is not used in soteriological way in the passages you have chosen.

Always worthwhile to study these words properly in the Greek! I recommend you get Bauer (BDAG 4th edition) and a good book for exegesis is "The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament," by Cleon Rogers Jr, & Cleon Rogers III. I have worn out my copy!

Can you give insight to the meaning of this word: ἐθέλω ethelo, also I am looking into that resource, thank you.

#G2309 θέλω thelo (the'-lō) v., ἐθέλω ethelo (e-the'-lō) , 1. to determine, i.e. choose or prefer., 2. (by implication) to wish, i.e. be inclined to., 3. (sometimes adverbially) gladly., 4. (impersonally for the future tense) to be about to., 5. (by Hebraism) to delight in., {literally or figuratively; as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas

 

[BenFTW]

but the world under your definition isn't saved, that's your problem. Are you saying God failed in His task?

You are mixing up God's general beneficence with His personal love..

God having a desire is not the same as God having a task. God loves the world, wants the whole world to be saved, but the whole world won't be saved because, as scripture states, the world loved darkness instead of the light. That isn't God failing, that is man failing and in his free will, rejecting God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

but the world under your definition isn't saved, that's your problem. Are you saying God failed in His task?

That's the wrong question. The question to ask is "Why did God not decree the salvation of all, if His desire was the salvation of all?"

And we come back to human free will and God's desire to see human beings coming to Christ because they BELIEVE that He is the one and only Savior and Lord. As we know from Scripture, "without faith it is impossible to please Him" and "by grace are ye saved through faith".

So sinners MUST exercise faith upon hearing the Gospel, and as Scripture says "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God". God's conditions for salvation are (1) repentance toward God and (2) faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21) therefore He neither compels nor pre-selects anyone for salvation.

Instead God COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) and the consequences of failure to obey that command and obey the Gospel are extremely serious. This is what preachers must bring to their hearers.

 

[Angela53510]

Can you give insight to the meaning of this word: ἐθέλω ethelo, also I am looking into that resource, thank you.

#G2309 θέλω thelo (the'-lō) v., ἐθέλω ethelo (e-the'-lō) , 1. to determine, i.e. choose or prefer., 2. (by implication) to wish, i.e. be inclined to., 3. (sometimes adverbially) gladly., 4. (impersonally for the future tense) to be about to., 5. (by Hebraism) to delight in., {literally or figuratively; as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas

According to Bauer, ἐθέλω is Attic Greek, and is not found in the NT, LXX, nor in multiple other early Greek literature sources, which I won't bother to post here. It's meaning is similar to θέλω,

1. To have a desire for something, to wish, to have, desire, or want something.
2. To have something in mind for oneself, of purpose, resolve will, wish, want, be ready
3. To take pleasure in
4. To have an opinion, maintain contrary to the true state of affairs
5. τί θέλει τούτο εἴναι; what can this mean?

Not really certain where your definition comes in. I suppose it could be stretched to mean the above. I was taught, "will, wish, desire." Choose is just not in the definition in the better Greek tools. I would trust Bauer over a concordance, including Strong's. Remember, Strong's is a back translation of KJV. So, it just echoes the mistakes.

Definition 1 for your G2309 just isn't right at all! Not sure about 3, 4 or 5 either.

 

[Johnny_B]

Abraham was an elect, that does not means he leads everyone around, He only leads his elects to fulfill his plane of salvation, everybody else have to choose. God bless

Amen He does not elect everyone to salvation and those that are not elect they choose to sin, but we who are chosen by the Father in Christ are His elect and He leads us to salvation or caused us to be born again and brings us by His will.

I Peter 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”

James 1:18 “Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”

Romans 3:10-11 “None is righteous, no, not one;11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.”

Romans 8:7-8 “For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.”

Romans 8:31-39 “What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”


37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Ephesians 1:3-6 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.”

 

[KelbyofGod]

but He does not elect any to be saved,

Nehemiah6
That quote is the only part of your entire post that I had any qualms about. Not your intent, which I believe is correct. Just thinking the phrase "elect (someone) to be saved" might have another meaning that doesn't fit your point. Great post!

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[posthuman]

Deuteronomy 30:19-20, “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, to love יהוה your Strength, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, to give them.”

"Therefore you shall choose life"

​

His speaking is His doing -- it is not so with men.

 

[valiant]

That's the wrong question. The question to ask is "Why did God not decree the salvation of all, if His desire was the salvation of all?"

That is a question we cannot answer. It is hidden in the mysteries of God.

And we come back to human free will and God's desire to see human beings coming to Christ because they BELIEVE that He is the one and only Savior and Lord. As we know from Scripture, "without faith it is impossible to please Him" and "by grace are ye saved through faith".

But if it is dependent on so called human free will we have to posit that some men are more righteous than others. But the Bible says 'there is none righteous, no not one.'

BY GRACE (the unmerited favour of God) you are saved. Our faith which He works in us is the means by which He does it,

So sinners MUST exercise faith upon hearing the Gospel, and as Scripture says "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God".

And there we have it, God works in us faith by His word. It is not of ourselves, it is the working of God.

God's conditions for salvation are (1) repentance toward God and (2) faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21) therefore He neither compels nor pre-selects anyone for salvation.

But repentance involves a change of heart and mind. It is the gift of God, We could never work it within ourselves. He chooses in whom He will work repentance and faith, thereby bringing men to Him according to His will. Or do you think you are somehow better than others? It is grace not of debt (Rom 4.4-5).

Instead God COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) and the consequences of failure to obey that command and obey the Gospel are extremely serious. This is what preachers must bring to their hearers.

That is our responsibility, but it is God, and God alone, Who makes it effective. Whom He enters into relationship beforehand, He predestinates to be conformed to the image of His Son.