God’s Sovereignty Decreed Man’s Free Will

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,342
12,870
113
#1
This statement may come as a shock to those who pit God’s sovereignty against man’s free will, and then go on to claim that God had decreed that whatever comes to pass is because God has decreed it – thus presenting a robotic universe, where all human decisions are “pre-programmed” by God. However this is a totally false doctrine of God’s sovereignty, as we shall see from Scripture.

There is absolutely no question that the LORD God Almighty is sovereign over His entire universe. In other words, He is the Supreme Ruler, Controller, and Sustainer of the universe. There are dozens of Psalms which extol the sovereignty of God.

And since God the Father has put all things into the hands of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is shown as the sovereign Lord God by Paul (1 Tim 6:14-16):
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

So this is an indisputable truth. But what too many Christians have failed to understand is that under His own sovereignty, God decreed the free will of man, so that men would believe Him, obey Him, worship Him, and serve Him willingly and voluntarily. Therefore God created man in His own image and likeness:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:26, 27).

As we know from other Scriptures, this meant that mankind would have a spirit, a soul, and a body (1 Thess 5:23), as well as a mind, a will, and a “heart” (emotions), with the potential to resemble God and Christ (1 Jn 3:1-3). But God’s primary goal was for man to have free and full fellowship with Him through the spirit (1 Jn: 1:1-10).

Thus God gave the first man Adam free will – the ability (or capacity) to make free choices, and thus display (a) either his genuine love and obedience to God (without coercion) or display (b) his own self-centered behavior, and forfeit God’s fellowship. As we know, Adam and Eve chose option (b) to the detriment of the human race.

But here is the proof that God decreed man’s free will under His own sovereignty:
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen 2:15-17).

God could have easily created man as a robot, programmed to be perfectly obedient to God, so that the issue of a choice between obedience and disobedience did not exist. But that would have defeated God’s plan to have human beings within the family of God, who willingly and voluntarily surrendered themselves to God without reservation, and conformed themselves to the character of God and Christ.

When we now come to the salvation of sinners, God maintains the same principle. Sinners must hear the Gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation to all those who believe) and be convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit (who Himself is the power of God accompanying the Gospel). In other words, sinners must obey the Gospel willingly and voluntarily, just as Adam was meant to obey God willingly and voluntarily.

Thus we have this revelation in Scripture (Rom 16: 25-27):
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Just as Adam was given a commandment, all men, in all nations, in all the world, are commanded to come to “the obedience of faith”, which is obedience to the Gospel. But God will not coerce anyone, and His grace is not “irresistible”. His grace (not His sovereignty) desires that ALL men should be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:3,4), but He does not elect any to be saved, and will not compel any to be saved. Instead He simply commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). There’s His sovereignty.
 
Last edited:

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#2
This statement may come as a shock to those who pit God’s sovereignty against man’s free will, and then go on to claim that God had decreed that whatever comes to pass is because God has decreed it – thus presenting a robotic universe, where all human decisions are “pre-programmed” by God. However this is a totally false doctrine of God’s sovereignty, as we shall see from Scripture.

There is absolutely no question that the LORD God Almighty is sovereign over His entire universe. In other words, He is the Supreme Ruler, Controller, and Sustainer of the universe. There are dozens of Psalms which extol the sovereignty of God.

And since God the Father has put all things into the hands of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is shown as the sovereign Lord God by Paul (1 Tim 6:14-16):
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

So this is an indisputable truth. But what too many Christians have failed to understand is that under His own sovereignty, God decreed the free will of man, so that men would believe Him, obey Him, worship Him, and serve Him willingly and voluntarily. Therefore God created man in His own image and likeness:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:26, 27).

As we know from other Scriptures, this meant that mankind would have a spirit, a soul, and a body (1 Thess 5:23), as well as a mind, a will, and a “heart” (emotions), with the potential to resemble God and Christ (1 Jn 3:1-3). But God’s primary goal was for man to have free and full fellowship with Him through the spirit (1 Jn: 1:1-10).

Thus God gave the first man Adam free will – the ability (or capacity) to make free choices, and thus display (a) either his genuine love and obedience to God (without coercion) or display (b) his own self-centered behavior, and forfeit God’s fellowship. As we know, Adam and Eve chose option (b) to the detriment of the human race.

But here is the proof that God decreed man’s free will under His own sovereignty:
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen 2:15-17).

God could have easily created man as a robot, programmed to be perfectly obedient to God, so that the issue of a choice between obedience and disobedience did not exist. But that would have defeated God’s plan to have human beings within the family of God, who willingly and voluntarily surrendered themselves to God without reservation, and conformed themselves to the character of God and Christ.

When we now come to the salvation of sinners, God maintains the same principle. Sinners must hear the Gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation to all those who believe) and be convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit (who Himself is the power of God accompanying the Gospel). In other words, sinners must obey the Gospel willingly and voluntarily, just as Adam was meant to obey God willingly and voluntarily.

Thus we have this revelation in Scripture (Rom 16: 25-27):
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Just as Adam was given a commandment, all men, in all nations, in all the world, are commanded to come to “the obedience of faith”, which is obedience to the Gospel. But God will not coerce anyone, and His grace is not “irresistible”. His grace (not His sovereignty) desires that ALL men should be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:3,4), but He does not elect any to be saved, and will not compel any to be saved. Instead He simply commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). There’s His sovereignty.
It seems like you forgot to post the verses that say people have “free will!” Oh right, there are none!

I love the way you string verses together with you own interpretations stuck between. Clever way to make it seem like the verses say it, when they say nothing of the sort.

Example:

[FONT=&quot]His grace (not His sovereignty) desires that ALL men should be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:3,4), but He does not elect any to be saved, and will not compel any to be saved. Instead He simply commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). There’s His sovereignty.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]One would almost think the bolded part was contained in the verses you surrounded it by. So, I checked, here they are! Nope! They don’t say that at all! Poor hermeneutics to support bad theology!
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
“[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Such prayer for all is good and welcomed before God our Savior, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 since he wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” 1 Tim 2:3-4
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
“[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Therefore, although God has overlooked such times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,” Acts 17:30[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#3
It seems like you forgot to post the verses that say people have “free will!” Oh right, there are none!

I love the way you string verses together with you own interpretations stuck between. Clever way to make it seem like the verses say it, when they say nothing of the sort.

Example:

His grace (not His sovereignty) desires that ALL men should be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:3,4), but He does not elect any to be saved, and will not compel any to be saved. Instead He simply commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). There’s His sovereignty.”

One would almost think the bolded part was contained in the verses you surrounded it by. So, I checked, here they are! Nope! They don’t say that at all! Poor hermeneutics to support bad theology!

Such prayer for all is good and welcomed before God our Savior, 4 since he wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” 1 Tim 2:3-4

“Therefore, although God has overlooked such times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,” Acts 17:30


If only some would worship God 1/10th as much as their mythical free will...
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#4
If only some would worship God 1/10th as much as their mythical free will...
That's your choice based on your opinion.

Worship God not Calvin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#5
This statement may come as a shock to those who pit God’s sovereignty against man’s free will, and then go on to claim that God had decreed that whatever comes to pass is because God has decreed it – thus presenting a robotic universe, where all human decisions are “pre-programmed” by God. However this is a totally false doctrine of God’s sovereignty, as we shall see from Scripture.

There is absolutely no question that the LORD God Almighty is sovereign over His entire universe. In other words, He is the Supreme Ruler, Controller, and Sustainer of the universe. There are dozens of Psalms which extol the sovereignty of God.

And since God the Father has put all things into the hands of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is shown as the sovereign Lord God by Paul (1 Tim 6:14-16):
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

So this is an indisputable truth. But what too many Christians have failed to understand is that under His own sovereignty, God decreed the free will of man, so that men would believe Him, obey Him, worship Him, and serve Him willingly and voluntarily. Therefore God created man in His own image and likeness:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:26, 27).

As we know from other Scriptures, this meant that mankind would have a spirit, a soul, and a body (1 Thess 5:23), as well as a mind, a will, and a “heart” (emotions), with the potential to resemble God and Christ (1 Jn 3:1-3). But God’s primary goal was for man to have free and full fellowship with Him through the spirit (1 Jn: 1:1-10).

Thus God gave the first man Adam free will – the ability (or capacity) to make free choices, and thus display (a) either his genuine love and obedience to God (without coercion) or display (b) his own self-centered behavior, and forfeit God’s fellowship. As we know, Adam and Eve chose option (b) to the detriment of the human race.

But here is the proof that God decreed man’s free will under His own sovereignty:
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen 2:15-17).

God could have easily created man as a robot, programmed to be perfectly obedient to God, so that the issue of a choice between obedience and disobedience did not exist. But that would have defeated God’s plan to have human beings within the family of God, who willingly and voluntarily surrendered themselves to God without reservation, and conformed themselves to the character of God and Christ.

When we now come to the salvation of sinners, God maintains the same principle. Sinners must hear the Gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation to all those who believe) and be convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit (who Himself is the power of God accompanying the Gospel). In other words, sinners must obey the Gospel willingly and voluntarily, just as Adam was meant to obey God willingly and voluntarily.

Thus we have this revelation in Scripture (Rom 16: 25-27):
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Just as Adam was given a commandment, all men, in all nations, in all the world, are commanded to come to “the obedience of faith”, which is obedience to the Gospel. But God will not coerce anyone, and His grace is not “irresistible”. His grace (not His sovereignty) desires that ALL men should be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:3,4), but He does not elect any to be saved, and will not compel any to be saved. Instead He simply commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). There’s His sovereignty.
that's not sovereignty - that's hope
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,342
12,870
113
#6
It seems like you forgot to post the verses that say people have “free will!” Oh right, there are none!
A lot of Christians believe that unless God states something EXPLICITLY it cannot be true. I did post the verses that imply that man has free will, but that was not good enough.

1. Gen 1:26, 27 -- man created in the image of God (free will)

2. Gen 2:15-17 -- a command given and the consequences stated (free will)

Had God created man without free will, Adam would not have needed any such command. He simply would have done exactly what God expected.

Coming to the present (and the fallen condition of all men) here is an invitation which is clearly for sinners to freely accept the gift of eternal life:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).

Had God already pre-selected and predestined some for salvation, He could not possibly invite "WHOSOEVER" to come and take of the water of life. He would be violating His own so-called "decree". And there are many "whosoever's" in Scripture. So it is really UNBELIEF that drives some to Calvinistic nonsense.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#7
It seems like you forgot to post the verses that say people have “free will!” Oh right, there are none!

I love the way you string verses together with you own interpretations stuck between. Clever way to make it seem like the verses say it, when they say nothing of the sort.

Example:

His grace (not His sovereignty) desires that ALL men should be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:3,4), but He does not elect any to be saved, and will not compel any to be saved. Instead He simply commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). There’s His sovereignty.”

One would almost think the bolded part was contained in the verses you surrounded it by. So, I checked, here they are! Nope! They don’t say that at all! Poor hermeneutics to support bad theology!

Such prayer for all is good and welcomed before God our Savior, 4 since he wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” 1 Tim 2:3-4

Therefore, although God has overlooked such times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,” Acts 17:30


Did King Agrippa not believe because God would not allow him to believe?

Ac 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Or did he value the position he held among men above the promise of eternal life?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
#8
If only some would worship God 1/10th as much as their mythical free will...
God's SovereignGrace is an "attribute" not a "decree." When our will align's with God's will, then we are free indeed, Keep preaching the Good News SG.....:)

Question: "What is sovereign grace?"

Answer:
Sovereign grace combines two of God’s attributes, His sovereignty and His graciousness. Both of these characteristics of God are so vast that many volumes have been written about each. Briefly though, the doctrine of sovereign grace is the melding of the two into a thrilling truth that gives us a glimpse into the mind and heart of our great God.

The sovereignty of God is His total control of all things past, present, and future. Nothing happens beyond His knowledge and control. All things are either caused by Him or allowed by Him for His own purposes and in accordance with His perfect will and timing. He is the only absolute and omnipotent ruler of the universe and is sovereign in creation, providence, and redemption. (Romans 11:36; 1 Corinthians 8:6)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,342
12,870
113
#9
Did King Agrippa not believe because God would not allow him to believe?

Ac 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Or did he value the position he held among men above the promise of eternal life?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Good point. And then we have the other side of the equation, where God desired the salvation of all of Israel, yet they rejected Him and resisted the Holy Spirit.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (Mt 23:37)

That one verse in itself is the death blow to "irresistible grace" (which supposedly precludes free will).

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers (Acts 7:51,52).

And this is the final nail in the coffin of so-called "irresistible grace".

 
Z

Zi

Guest
#10
And make Him a liar and taunter..
A lot of Christians believe that unless God states something EXPLICITLY it cannot be true. I did post the verses that imply that man has free will, but that was not good enough.

1. Gen 1:26, 27 -- man created in the image of God (free will)

2. Gen 2:15-17 -- a command given and the consequences stated (free will)

Had God created man without free will, Adam would not have needed any such command. He simply would have done exactly what God expected.

Coming to the present (and the fallen condition of all men) here is an invitation which is clearly for sinners to freely accept the gift of eternal life:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).

Had God already pre-selected and predestined some for salvation, He could not possibly invite "WHOSOEVER" to come and take of the water of life. He would be violating His own so-called "decree". And there are many "whosoever's" in Scripture. So it is really UNBELIEF that drives some to Calvinistic nonsense.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#11
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 11:4, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is in His holy temple; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men."

Joshua 24:15, “And if it seems evil in your eyes to serve
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], choose for yourselves this day whom you are going to serve, whether the mighty ones which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the mighty ones of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But I and my house, we serve [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”

John 7:17, “If anyone chooses to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from YHWH, or whether I speak from Myself.”

chooses” is word #G2309 θέλω thelo (the'-lō) v., ἐθέλω ethelo (e-the'-lō) , 1. to determine, i.e. choose or prefer., 2. (by implication) to wish, i.e. be inclined to., 3. (sometimes adverbially) gladly., 4. (impersonally for the future tense) to be about to., 5. (by Hebraism) to delight in., {literally or figuratively; as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive acquiescence in objective considerations}, [apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138], KJV: desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, - ling(-ly)) , Root(s): G138, Compare: G140, G1014
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:24-27, “By belief, Mosheh, having become great, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh, choosing rather to be afflicted with the people of Yah than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time, deeming the reproach of Messiah greater riches than the treasures in Mitsrayim, for he was looking to the reward. By belief, he left Mitsrayim, not fearing the wrath of the sovereign, for he was steadfast, as seeing Him who is invisible.”

1 Corinthians 10:13, "No trial has overtaken you except such as is common to man, and YHWH is trustworthy, who shall not allow you to be tried beyond what you are able, but with the trial shall also make the way of escape, enabling you to bear it."
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:16-17, “And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mighty commanded the man, saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden, but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 4:7, “If you do right, will it not be accepted? If you don’t do right, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.”

Deuteronomy 30:19-20, “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, to love
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, to give them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Psalm 9:7-8, “But
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”

Malachi 3:16-18, “Then those who reverenced
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]spoke often one to another, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]paid attention and heard them; and a Book of Remembrance was written in His presence of those who gave reverence to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and who thought upon His Name; And they will be Mine! says [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts. In that day when I make up My jewels I will spare them, as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you will return, and again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him who serves[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and him who does not serve Him.”[/FONT]
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#12
A lot of Christians believe that unless God states something EXPLICITLY it cannot be true.
But we don't know if it is true

I did post the verses that imply that man has free will, but that was not good enough.

1. Gen 1:26, 27 -- man created in the image of God (free will)

2. Gen 2:15-17 -- a command given and the consequences stated (free will)
Man HAD freewill. But not any more

Had God created man without free will, Adam would not have needed any such command. He simply would have done exactly what God expected.
we do exactly what God expects.

Coming to the present (and the fallen condition of all men) here is an invitation which is clearly for sinners to freely accept the gift of eternal life:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).

Had God already pre-selected and predestined some for salvation, He could not possibly invite "WHOSOEVER" to come and take of the water of life. He would be violating His own so-called "decree". And there are many "whosoever's" in Scripture. So it is really UNBELIEF that drives some to Calvinistic nonsense.
Why could He not predestine men and yet make an appeal to whosoever?
 
Jun 6, 2015
171
0
0
#13
It seems like you forgot to post the verses that say people have “free will!” Oh right, there are none!

I love the way you string verses together with you own interpretations stuck between. Clever way to make it seem like the verses say it, when they say nothing of the sort.

Example:

His grace (not His sovereignty) desires that ALL men should be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:3,4), but He does not elect any to be saved, and will not compel any to be saved. Instead He simply commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). There’s His sovereignty.”

One would almost think the bolded part was contained in the verses you surrounded it by. So, I checked, here they are! Nope! They don’t say that at all! Poor hermeneutics to support bad theology!

Such prayer for all is good and welcomed before God our Savior, 4 since he wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” 1 Tim 2:3-4

Therefore, although God has overlooked such times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,” Acts 17:30


Deut.3:19 I set before you life and death, blessings and cursing so choose, we make choices everyday thats freewill,Ezra 7:13 all the people of Israel and there priest and Levites which have freewill, it seems they didn't all have freewill.
Paul didn't have a choice. Jonah had no choice to go preach, Moses didn't want to go back to Egypt, they were elects, they had no choice. God bless
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#14
Why could He not predestine men and yet make an appeal to whosoever?
Because that would be quite unnecessary. If God "decreed" the salvation of some men, then that would surely come to pass without any appeal to them. It is only if there was so such decree that God would present an invitation to "whosoever".
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#15
I think an overlooked question is how did the freewill of man differ before the Fall from us after the Fall?
IOW, Was Adam's will 'freer', if you will, before he fell into bondage of sin, than fallen man is today?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,809
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#16
I think an overlooked question is how did the freewill of man differ before the Fall from us after the Fall?
IOW, Was Adam's will 'freer', if you will, before he fell into bondage of sin, than fallen man is today?
I would wager that Adam and Eve were as much driven by self will as any of us are.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#17
Where there's a will there's a way..:p
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#19
Deut.3:19 I set before you life and death, blessings and cursing so choose, we make choices everyday
But that is not free will. We choose according to our dispositions etc.

thats freewill,
No that is willing according to our make up.

Ezra 7:13 all the people of Israel and there priest and Levites which have freewill, it seems they didn't all have freewill.
Paul didn't have a choice. Jonah had no choice to go preach, Moses didn't want to go back to Egypt, they were elects, they had no choice.
so what happened to their free will LOL
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#20
A lot of Christians believe that unless God states something EXPLICITLY it cannot be true. I did post the verses that imply that man has free will, but that was not good enough.

1. Gen 1:26, 27 -- man created in the image of God (free will)

2. Gen 2:15-17 -- a command given and the consequences stated (free will)

Had God created man without free will, Adam would not have needed any such command. He simply would have done exactly what God expected.

Coming to the present (and the fallen condition of all men) here is an invitation which is clearly for sinners to freely accept the gift of eternal life:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).

Had God already pre-selected and predestined some for salvation, He could not possibly invite "WHOSOEVER" to come and take of the water of life. He would be violating His own so-called "decree". And there are many "whosoever's" in Scripture. So it is really UNBELIEF that drives some to Calvinistic nonsense.
How can one say be it not my will but God's will, if the not my will was never mine to begin with.