WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE "REBELLION"/''FALLING AWAY" OF THE LAST DAYS

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louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE "REBELLION"/''FALLING AWAY" OF THE LAST DAYS

  • The anti-christ is revealed; all the Christians who thought they were going to be raptured before the Tribulation are dismayed to find out they were wrong; most Christians (apostate, rebellious, true Christians, not 'fake Christians') forsake Christ and take the mark of the beast, thus forfeiting their salvation (which they believe they can't forfeit, thanks to Once-Saved-Always-Saved...); most of the rest of us, those who remain faithful to Jesus, conquer/overcome the beast by martyrdom.

ALL OF IT TRUE.

(If you don't believe it, you're about to find out that it is.)​
I concur with your position as this is supported in Mark 13:12-13, where even our own family members are going to despise those who do not accept the beasts mark, but instead choose martyrdom. I think much of this martyrdom will be due to starvation by not being able to buy or sell without the beasts mark (Rev 13:17).

Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE "REBELLION"/''FALLING AWAY" OF THE LAST DAYS

I concur with your position as this is supported in Mark 13:12-13, where even our own family members are going to despise those who do not accept the beasts mark, but instead choose martyrdom. I think much of this martyrdom will be due to starvation by not being able to buy or sell without the beasts mark (Rev 13:17).

Mark 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
My persuasion from the Scriptures is that most of those of us who are killed will be killed by 'the sword'---probably indicative of beheading.

Revelation 13:10 mentions two consequences for Christians who do not take the mark: Going into captivity (probably either prison or a concentration camp of some kind), or being killed with the sword. That doesn't necessarily mean that all of us will go to imprisonment or be killed; some of us might be provided for during that time by people who have the mark and can buy and sell, if that should be God's will. But we should expect and be prepared to face either death or imprisonment, by God's will.

I don't know of any instance recorded in the Bible in which any of God's obedient children died of starvation; death by starvation is used by God as a punishment/judgment throughout the Bible, including in the Revelation (6:7).

He might allow us to be very hungry in order to test our faithfulness, but I don't believe we'll starve to death. If we're imprisoned, we'll presumably be fed (perhaps not much, but something).

Given the great number of martyrs before the throne of God mentioned in the Revelation, coming out of the great tribulation, and Babylon being described as being 'drunk' with the blood of the saints, I think it's reasonable to expect that most of us will be killed 'with the sword'---perhaps a guillotine. While intimidating, a guillotine is actually a very humane way to be executed; precise, quick and painless. And large numbers of people can be dispatched by it, quickly.

The horror and intimidation of a guillotine, however, might be very intentional on the part of the antichrist, to scare Christians into taking the mark---especially if the executions are public (which wouldn't surprise me). That would be quite a spectacle---for hundreds of people to be lined up for the guillotine, much like the public executions during the Inquisition.

And if you happened to be in line for the guillotine, moving up to have your head chopped off in the midst of jeering and cheering blood-thirsty spectators, it would be pretty easy to lose your nerve before it was your turn. Which would certainly be the antichrist's desire for Christians to do, since his heart will be set on destroying the saints. You can't destroy a Christian by chopping his or her head off, but you can by convincing them one way or the other to take the mark of the beast and forfeit their salvation---whether through intimidation or through deception.

While getting rid of Christians by killing them physically is 'the next best thing', what the antichrist (indwelt by Satan) will really want is to get as many Christians as possible to go to the lake of fire (the second death) by forfeiting their salvation. That will be his real victory, not killing us physically.

Daniel 11:33 does mention another kind of execution: 'Flame'. Which is presumably being burned alive. I don't really think speculating about the exact method of that form of execution would be very helpful to saints who are already apprehensive about these things.

The important things to remember are that whatever way it might be God's will for us to be killed, Jesus will be with us in our death and bear us safely home, and God is able to give us the grace to die any death.
(Oh the timing: Just as I am writing this, the hymn "Abide With Me" has begun to play on my music playlist...)

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 8:35-39)


Abide in Him!

 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE "REBELLION"/''FALLING AWAY" OF THE LAST DAYS

My persuasion from the Scriptures is that most of those of us who are killed will be killed by 'the sword'---probably indicative of beheading.

Revelation 13:10 mentions two consequences for Christians who do not take the mark: Going into captivity (probably either prison or a concentration camp of some kind), or being killed with the sword. That doesn't necessarily mean that all of us will go to imprisonment or be killed; some of us might be provided for during that time by people who have the mark and can buy and sell, if that should be God's will. But we should expect and be prepared to face either death or imprisonment, by God's will.

I don't know of any instance recorded in the Bible in which any of God's obedient children died of starvation; death by starvation is used by God as a punishment/judgment throughout the Bible, including in the Revelation (6:7).

He might allow us to be very hungry in order to test our faithfulness, but I don't believe we'll starve to death. If we're imprisoned, we'll presumably be fed (perhaps not much, but something).

Given the great number of martyrs before the throne of God mentioned in the Revelation, coming out of the great tribulation, and Babylon being described as being 'drunk' with the blood of the saints, I think it's reasonable to expect that most of us will be killed 'with the sword'---perhaps a guillotine. While intimidating, a guillotine is actually a very humane way to be executed; precise, quick and painless. And large numbers of people can be dispatched by it, quickly.

The horror and intimidation of a guillotine, however, might be very intentional on the part of the antichrist, to scare Christians into taking the mark---especially if the executions are public (which wouldn't surprise me). That would be quite a spectacle---for hundreds of people to be lined up for the guillotine, much like the public executions during the Inquisition.

And if you happened to be in line for the guillotine, moving up to have your head chopped off in the midst of jeering and cheering blood-thirsty spectators, it would be pretty easy to lose your nerve before it was your turn. Which would certainly be the antichrist's desire for Christians to do, since his heart will be set on destroying the saints. You can't destroy a Christian by chopping his or her head off, but you can by convincing them one way or the other to take the mark of the beast and forfeit their salvation---whether through intimidation or through deception.

While getting rid of Christians by killing them physically is 'the next best thing', what the antichrist (indwelt by Satan) will really want is to get as many Christians as possible to go to the lake of fire (the second death) by forfeiting their salvation. That will be his real victory, not killing us physically.

Daniel 11:33 does mention another kind of execution: 'Flame'. Which is presumably being burned alive. I don't really think speculating about the exact method of that form of execution would be very helpful to saints who are already apprehensive about these things.

The important things to remember are that whatever way it might be God's will for us to be killed, Jesus will be with us in our death and bear us safely home, and God is able to give us the grace to die any death.
(Oh the timing: Just as I am writing this, the hymn "Abide With Me" has begun to play on my music playlist...)

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 8:35-39)


Abide in Him!

I agree that many saints shall be beheaded, but the bible also mentions that there shall be famines and pestilences prior to the beasts system being enacted (Matthew 24:7).
It then stands to reason that if one will not be able to buy or sell unless one has the mark of the beast, that the little food available in some of the nations experiencing famine will simply be denied to individuals refusing the beast's mark.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

You also mentioned that you don't know of any instances in the bible in which Gods children die from starvation; and I don't know if those who die by hunger in Revelation 6:8 under the fourth seal will include Gods children, but under the fifth seal we see some of the saints who have been killed, which may have been killed under the fourth seal.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
 
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE "REBELLION"/''FALLING AWAY" OF THE LAST DAYS

I agree that many saints shall be beheaded, but the bible also mentions that there shall be famines and pestilences prior to the beasts system being enacted (Matthew 24:7).
It then stands to reason that if one will not be able to buy or sell unless one has the mark of the beast, that the little food available in some of the nations experiencing famine will simply be denied to individuals refusing the beast's mark.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

These are the same events described in Daniel (nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom), and in the Revelation (famines, pestilences, earthquakes), which take place during the Tribulation at various trumpets/bowls/seals. The famines and pestilences mentioned in Matthew 24:7 are part of God's judgments on the unsaved; (see the descriptions of the same things in the Revelation 6:8).

Christians will not be killed by these. Hades follows Death, as it says (Revelation 6:8), and Christians will not go to Hades (or hell) when they die but to heaven. These are judgments on unsaved people.

And the slain referred to in Revelation 6:9-11 are saints who have been martyred, not killed by the judgments of God mentioned in 6:8. I believe that this passage (Rev 6:9-11) refers to saints who were martyred long ago, not during the fourth seal: They ask the Lord how long it will be until He avenges their blood on those who are on the earth, which implies that they've been waiting to be avenged for a while, as does God's reply to them to wait a little while longer.

The purpose of mentioning those martyred saints in 6:9-11, as far as I can tell, is for the information about what is going to happen to their brothers and fellow servants that follows it: 'Who were to be killed as they themselves were'. The martyrdom of those saints whose souls are under the altar doesn't have anything to do with the events in Rev 6:8. It's given as an example for those who are to follow in their footsteps; the same as in Revelation 12:10,11. Those saints are mentioned as an example for us to follow:

Revelation 12:11 is not talking about the Christians who will be martyred during the tribulation, but about martyred saints who are already in heaven. They are mentioned as an example for us to follow during that time (the tribulation). We will conquer the antichrist by laying down our earthly lives, as the saints before us who were martyred conquered Satan by the blood of the Lamb and maintaining their testimony (not denying Him, even when faced with death).

(Also, the events in Revelation are not described in exact chronological order; so don't confuse an event being described after another with that event necessarily occurring after what was described in a previous chapter or passage. Plus, some of the same events are described more than once in different places. Just a helpful note, if you need it.)
 
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GOOD QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIANS

PLEASE WATCH:

GOOD QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIANS

<strong>[video]https://youtu.be/UfALEtwURj8[/video]
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

I agree that many saints shall be beheaded, but the bible also mentions that there shall be famines and pestilences prior to the beasts system being enacted (Matthew 24:7).
It then stands to reason that if one will not be able to buy or sell unless one has the mark of the beast, that the little food available in some of the nations experiencing famine will simply be denied to individuals refusing the beast's mark.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

These are the same events described in Daniel (nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom), and in the Revelation (famines, pestilences, earthquakes), which take place during the Tribulation at various trumpets/bowls/seals. The famines and pestilences mentioned in Matthew 24:7 are part of God's judgments on the unsaved; (see the descriptions of the same things in the Revelation 6:8).

Christians will not be killed by these. Hades follows Death, as it says (Revelation 6:8), and Christians will not go to Hades (or hell) when they die but to heaven. These are judgments on unsaved people.

And the slain referred to in Revelation 6:9-11 are saints who have been martyred, not killed by the judgments of God mentioned in 6:8. I believe that this passage (Rev 6:9-11) refers to saints who were martyred long ago, not during the fourth seal: They ask the Lord how long it will be until He avenges their blood on those who are on the earth, which implies that they've been waiting to be avenged for a while, as does God's reply to them to wait a little while longer.

The purpose of mentioning those martyred saints in 6:9-11, as far as I can tell, is for the information about what is going to happen to their brothers and fellow servants that follows it: 'Who were to be killed as they themselves were'. The martyrdom of those saints whose souls are under the altar doesn't have anything to do with the events in Rev 6:8. It's given as an example for those who are to follow in their footsteps; the same as in Revelation 12:10,11. Those saints are mentioned as an example for us to follow:

Revelation 12:11 is not talking about the Christians who will be martyred during the tribulation, but about martyred saints who are already in heaven. They are mentioned as an example for us to follow during that time (the tribulation). We will conquer the antichrist by laying down our earthly lives, as the saints before us who were martyred conquered Satan by the blood of the Lamb and maintaining their testimony (not denying Him, even when faced with death).

(Also, the events in Revelation are not described in exact chronological order; so don't confuse an event being described after another with that event necessarily occurring after what was described in a previous chapter or passage. Plus, some of the same events are described more than once in different places. Just a helpful note, if you need it.)
You are correct that many of the events described in Revelation are not in exact chronological order. In fact I recognize the four horsemen of the Apocalypse as the Worlds governments prior to their coming together under the beast's unified world order. As such, the events under the first four seals occur simultaneously.
The saints who will have died upon the opening of the fifth seal are therefore dying prior to the beast's system, where upon many saints will also have to die after being enacted as described in Revelation 6:11.
Also, as the four horsemen represent the world orders and their respective governments, Death and Hell being part under the fourth horseman would be a metaphor representing actual human beings.
Another example of this can be seen in Isaiah 28:18 where the Lord describes the land of Isarael in covenant and agreement with entities described as death and hell.

Revelation 6:11 [FONT=&quot]And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.[/FONT]

Isaiah 28:18 [FONT=&quot]And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.[/FONT]
 
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

You are correct that many of the events described in Revelation are not in exact chronological order. In fact I recognize the four horsemen of the Apocalypse as the Worlds governments prior to their coming together under the beast's unified world order. As such, the events under the first four seals occur simultaneously.
The saints who will have died upon the opening of the fifth seal are therefore dying prior to the beast's system, where upon many saints will also have to die after being enacted as described in Revelation 6:11.
Also, as the four horsemen represent the world orders and their respective governments, Death and Hell being part under the fourth horseman would be a metaphor representing actual human beings.
Another example of this can be seen in Isaiah 28:18 where the Lord describes the land of Isarael in covenant and agreement with entities described as death and hell.

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Everything that is described in the Revelation pertaining to the seven bowl/vial, trumpet and seal judgments (which are the same periods of time, just described differently in different parts of the Revelation), will take place during the approximately 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation.

The Tribulation itself will not begin when the one world government is established, but rather when the mark of the beast and the worship of his image are instituted, with the consequences for those who do not do these things, and the judgments of God, described in the bowl/vial, trumpet, and seal passages, begin to fall on the earth.

May the Lord give you whatever more understanding you may need about these things: I think I've explained everything it's appropriate for me to explain, but He's able to explain them to you fully. Feel free to visit "my" YouTube Channel ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfkgrLsk0K-XslqL0_zSXjw ) if you'd like. You may find the content there helpful.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.


What passes over taking the lives of many Middle Easterns and ultimately many Israelis daily represents the daily sacrifice mentioned in Daniel 8:11-12; 9:27 & Revelation 13:13.
The bed shorter than one can stretch on, and narrower than one can cover themselves with represents the land of Israel's northern to southern borders being too short to run away from death and hell, along with its eastern to western borders too narrow to hide from the daily aerial sorties that will constitute the daily sacrifice, until the antichrist calls an end to it, as mentioned in Daniel 8:11-12; 9:27.



Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

Everything that is described in the Revelation pertaining to the seven bowl/vial, trumpet and seal judgments (which are the same periods of time, just described differently in different parts of the Revelation), will take place during the approximately 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation.
LightShinesInTheDarkness,
The seven bowls of Gods wrath in Revelation 16 are poured out upon the worshippers of the beast following his 1260 days of reighing high. Prior to the beasts system being enacted, when the abomination of desolation stands in the holy place, which is in the hearts of the faithful (Matthew 24:15), there will be wars, famines, pestilence, which will be taken out on the faithful throughout many parts of the world (Matthew 24:7-9), which in turn will cause many of the current faithful to fall away (Matthew 24:10), as is the title of your thread. This tribulation time of the faithful is then not the same 1260 days in which all the world will worship/love the beast and its power (Revelation 13:3-4), thereby standing in the hearts of the holy (Matthew 24:7).



Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The Tribulation itself will not begin when the one world government is established, but rather when the mark of the beast and the worship of his image are instituted, with the consequences for those who do not do these things, and the judgments of God, described in the bowl/vial, trumpet, and seal passages, begin to fall on the earth.
When the one world government is established and the whole world is loving the beast's system will be due to the power from the sea causing the beast's system to rise. This power from the bottomless pit will provide mankind with all the material goodies that cannot be produced currently from fossil fuels due to their known harmful effects on the environment. In effect, the power from the sea will bring about a materialistic utopia in which hedonism prevails. The saints will war/contend with the beast's system, but they will be worn out for a time and times, and dividing of time by the beast's mouth (Daniel 7:25), which is the same as the time, and times, and half a time in Revelation 12:14, which Revelation 12:6 describe constitute 1,260 days.
So while I do agree that the 1,260 days in which the saints are worn out by the beast's mouth are the same time in which the beast reigns for 1,260 days, there nevertheless is a time preceding these days in which the saints are being killed throughout the world, as I previously described in Matthew 24 and Revelation 6.


Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 12:
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:
6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

May the Lord give you whatever more understanding you may need about these things: I think I've explained everything it's appropriate for me to explain, but He's able to explain them to you fully. Feel free to visit "my" YouTube Channel ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfk...K-XslqL0_zSXjw ) if you'd like. You may find the content there helpful.
LightShinesInTheDarkness,
As you are well aware, everyone on this forum has their own perspectives on what scriptures represent. We cannot all be correct in everything as is obvious with many conflicting perspectives.
The reason for these conflicting perspectives is due to Satan camoflauging himself as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), provinding all mankind with false illumination (Revelation 12:9). I therefore recognize that I at time will err due to Satan's false illumination/deception.
I hope you will also recognize that you too will err at times due to Satan's deceptions. There are many here who will not admit to any of their perspectives being wrong, whom Satan therefore has in his darkness.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Revelation 12:
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

My persuasion from the Scriptures is that most of those of us who are killed will be killed by 'the sword'---probably indicative of beheading.

Revelation 13:10 mentions two consequences for Christians who do not take the mark: Going into captivity (probably either prison or a concentration camp of some kind), or being killed with the sword. That doesn't necessarily mean that all of us will go to imprisonment or be killed; some of us might be provided for during that time by people who have the mark and can buy and sell, if that should be God's will. But we should expect and be prepared to face either death or imprisonment, by God's will.

I don't know of any instance recorded in the Bible in which any of God's obedient children died of starvation; death by starvation is used by God as a punishment/judgment throughout the Bible, including in the Revelation (6:7).

He might allow us to be very hungry in order to test our faithfulness, but I don't believe we'll starve to death. If we're imprisoned, we'll presumably be fed (perhaps not much, but something).

Given the great number of martyrs before the throne of God mentioned in the Revelation, coming out of the great tribulation, and Babylon being described as being 'drunk' with the blood of the saints, I think it's reasonable to expect that most of us will be killed 'with the sword'---perhaps a guillotine. While intimidating, a guillotine is actually a very humane way to be executed; precise, quick and painless. And large numbers of people can be dispatched by it, quickly.

The horror and intimidation of a guillotine, however, might be very intentional on the part of the antichrist, to scare Christians into taking the mark---especially if the executions are public (which wouldn't surprise me). That would be quite a spectacle---for hundreds of people to be lined up for the guillotine, much like the public executions during the Inquisition.

And if you happened to be in line for the guillotine, moving up to have your head chopped off in the midst of jeering and cheering blood-thirsty spectators, it would be pretty easy to lose your nerve before it was your turn. Which would certainly be the antichrist's desire for Christians to do, since his heart will be set on destroying the saints. You can't destroy a Christian by chopping his or her head off, but you can by convincing them one way or the other to take the mark of the beast and forfeit their salvation---whether through intimidation or through deception.

While getting rid of Christians by killing them physically is 'the next best thing', what the antichrist (indwelt by Satan) will really want is to get as many Christians as possible to go to the lake of fire (the second death) by forfeiting their salvation. That will be his real victory, not killing us physically.

Daniel 11:33 does mention another kind of execution: 'Flame'. Which is presumably being burned alive. I don't really think speculating about the exact method of that form of execution would be very helpful to saints who are already apprehensive about these things.

The important things to remember are that whatever way it might be God's will for us to be killed, Jesus will be with us in our death and bear us safely home, and God is able to give us the grace to die any death.
(Oh the timing: Just as I am writing this, the hymn "Abide With Me" has begun to play on my music playlist...)

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 8:35-39)


Abide in Him!

May GOD strengthen us to stand in line singing His praise if ever such befall us.
 
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May GOD strengthen us to stand in line singing His praise if ever such befall us.
Amen! (We know He will, and that many of us will overcome and be faithful unto death, because of that great throng of martyrs before the throne of God described in the Revelation, with palm branches in their hands, who are coming out of the great tribulation.)
 

stillness

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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

This is to confirm the revival during the time of trouble of the end.

Came across this vision a year ago, it's already 30 years old.
Also, 34 years ago the Lord told me: Behold I am with you in a time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again. Convinced it's in my lifetime. My opinion of how it will happen is the communist nations ruling the world as a one world government and making war against the church and anything that is a treat to their rule


Jesus won this battle as the head of the Church and He is standing in the Light making intersection for us.
What I've been through is preparation for the final battle, not to have our treasure in this life. This final battle will determine who will overcome the world to have part in the first Resurrection, to rule in Love with Him for a thousand years." "The rest of the dead are not raised until the thousand years are fulfilled."


There is no reason to overreact, keep in mind the simplicity of Christ. "He that has clean hands and a pure heart." The remainder of writing is not mine, including presentation from someone else.


The following is an end-time vision given to an established, seasoned minister of the gospel, Dr. Mark Barclay, and told in his own words. My heart was quickened when I read it and I thought: "This vision needs to be circulated to the body of Christ worldwide for we are seeing the increasing effects of it being unfolded in this hour, although it was given more than 25 years ago."


If you are skeptical of these things I would encourage you to listen to your heart as you read it and allow the Holy Spirit to bear witness with you.
"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. ... But the anointing which you have received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. For as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in Him" (1John 2:20, 27)
Here then is the vision told in the minister's own words:
"In 1987 I was a speaker at a camp meeting in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I spoke during the Thursday evening service. Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin spoke during the Friday evening service. I remember that I had just flown in from meetings in Paris, France. I mentioned to my wife how much I would like to stay and hear Dr. Hagin speak. She agreed.
As Dr. Hagin entered the pulpit, he began to pray in tongues. When he started, I started. A moment later, I was caught up in a vision (I was told later that it was probably more like a trance). As I went into this vision, I remember how Dr. Hagin's voice was getting quieter and quieter, until I could hear him no more. It was so quiet all around me I felt like I could hear my own heartbeat.
All of a sudden I felt evil, as if it were surrounding me. Anger rose up in me, and fear tried to get a grip on me. Suddenly, something caught my attention out of my left eye. I turned hard to the left to see what it was. I saw the circumference of the earth, from one edge to the other, and this horrible black, dark cloud was rising up over the horizon. Somehow I knew it would eventually fill the entire earth.
An alarm went off in me, screaming to me to run away from it as fast as I could. I felt like I should scream at it, to stop it in its tracks by using the name of Jesus. I began to rebuke it and started to say, "In the name of Jesus ... " I didn't quite get it out, and the Lord said, "That will do you no good."
"What?" I said.
The Lord said, "Son, you cannot use My name to stop what I prophesied. I am not causing this dark cloud, but I did prophesy it would happen in the last days."
I remember in the vision that I asked the Lord "What is this? What is this evil, tempestuous, dark cloud?"
The Lord said, "This is what I showed My prophet, Isaiah (Isa. 60:1-2). This is every evil thing you can name. It is every demon, it is every disease, it is sickness and bacterial attacks that haven't even been discovered yet. It will cause humans to do things to humans that aren't even human. It is filled with insanity, and many people will lose their mind and their faculties. It is murder, terror, rape, abuse, terrorism, torture and much worse. It is filled with deceptions, heresies, perversions and filth."
Some things the Lord showed me I have not had permission to speak.
I also saw people—many, many people. Some were running into the dark cloud, and some were being sucked into it. It reminded me of this very powerful Shop-vac I have. It will not only suck up the dirt but also my tools, if I don't pay attention.
I saw may people screaming with terror and actually being dragged into this cloud. Though they were refusing it and resisting it with all their strength, they still did not possess the power to stop it.
I was so disturbed when I saw a cross on someone's pocket or jewelry. I remember saying to the Lord, "Who are those people being drawn into this filth and terror, wearing the Christian symbol of the cross? Who are these people, not even resisting? And who are these people, resisting with all their might but it does them no good? They just keep disappearing into this horrible, evil cloud of gross darkness."
The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, these are those who do not have clean hands and a pure heart. They have been warned but ignored the warnings. Some even wanted this filth as their lifestyle."
I asked, "Well, who are these wearing the cross?"
"Oh," the Lord said, "These are the people who claim Me as Savior. Many of them have desired this filth and even fought for it. They make excuses but are not excused. The ones who are resisting thought My prophets were exaggerating and from the old school, and they denied the warnings. Now that this evil has come, they possess little to no power, and certainly not enough to resist and overcome this horrible onslaught of enemy power. Only those with clean hands and a pure heart will be able to totally resist this. It will cover the earth."
There was much more to this, but I began to come out of the vision and once again heard Brother Hagin speaking in tongues from the pulpit.
I asked my wife what had happened, and she said, "Nothing, he hasn't done anything but pray in the spirit."

I began to realize that nobody seemed to see this vision or get caught up into this trance but me. I held my wife's hand a little tighter and began to pray fervently in the spirit. As I did, I got caught up in the spirit again.
Just like before, Brother Hagin's voice got quieter and quieter until it was gone. I found myself alone again. It was so quiet I could hear my own heartbeat. Suddenly, a piercing light hit the corner of my right eye. It was so bright that I instantly shrouded my head with my hands and arms. It reminded me of the intense light that my optometrist uses to examine the back of my eyes. Actually, it was much brighter than that.
Everything within me said, "Turn and look into it. Turn now, and run into it." Yet there was this hesitation because it was so bright it seemed to shine through me. Finally I gave in to it and looked directly at it. With both eyes I saw the depth of this bright cloud. Just like the dark cloud I had seen before, it was coming up over the horizon of the earth. I could tell that it was going to cover the planet. I just knew that I knew that nothing could stop it.
I remembered asking the Lord, "What is this? What is this massive, earth-consuming, bright cloud?"
The Lord answered me and said, "Oh, this is My glory. This is the glory cloud that I showed My prophet Isaiah (Isa. 61:1-2). This is what I promised, that My glory will fill the whole earth."
"Well," I asked, "what is inside the cloud?"
"It is filled with the greatest miracles humans have ever seen. It is filled with healing for every disease, and a cure for every sickness. It is power to overcome sin and filth—to receive the truth and reject error, heresy and doctrines of demons. It is a full manifestation of My Spirit. It is the full anointing of Jesus Christ and more, much more."
He showed me other things that I have no permission to speak at this time.

I saw people in this vision, just like before with the cloud of darkness. Many, many people were running into it and almost frolicking in it. It was like my first response—too bright to behold, and then I wanted to run into it. There were those who seemed to want to pull away from this glory cloud.
"Lord, who will enter into this great glory of God and enjoy this awesome power?" I asked.
"Those who have a pure heart and clean hands," the Lord answered. "They are the ones who will escape the horrible vacuum of the evil, dark cloud and be consumed with My glory. I will require you to tell these things to My people at an appointed time."
Now is that time! As I travel the world over, I see both of these manifestations happening. In fact, I see them beginning to intensify. Sometimes I say that both God and Satan are having a revival among men. We will now see more and more people running to each cloud, causing a great gulf or divide. Could this be the separation of sheep and goats, or the separation of wheat and tares?
I am not a conspiracy-theory person. I am not a fear-based preacher. I am not a prophet of doom. So what I am about to say is none of these. But, I am actually witnessing the spirits of the Antichrist, prepping the people of the earth (including many church goers) for the arrival of the Antichrist himself. I see demons (spirits of the Antichrist) going throughout all the earth. They are slowly re-programming the minds of men (doctrines of demons) to systematically disassemble the work of Christ and disengage the army of God.
You can avoid this, if you choose. If you choose not to, you will suffer the consequences. Please don't do that!" —Dr. Mark Barclay (marktbarclay.com
 
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Dear Stillness,

I read through the vision you shared with me from Mark Barclay, and it agrees with the things the Lord has been showing me for years. I am inclined to believe that it was in fact a vision from the Lord.

Many Christians right now are unwittingly in a condition similar to the condition of the people of God described in Isaiah 6:8-13. They've rejected understanding and refused to listen to and obey the Lord so long that God has essentially taken away their ability to understand and to discern truth from error.

"Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away." (Luke 8:18)

They are relying on themselves and their own understanding and don't know it. And now it is only a matter of God's judgment of them being manifested; they've already been judged with blindness and deafness, that they may "go and fall backward, and be broken and snared and taken" (Isaiah 28:13).

The polarization of light and darkness is indeed taking place right now---those who are on the Lord's side (not just saved but also faithful to Him), and those who are against Him (both saved and unsaved); like the drawing of two lines for the ultimate battle.

Those who are in Christ but are rebelling against Him resent and separate themselves from those who are in Him and are obeying Him. Those Christians who need to wash their robes but refuse to do so are the ones who, as brother Mark apparently saw in the vision, will fall during the time of testing, having no power to resist fear, temptation and deception. They think Christians like myself are too hard on them, or are fear-mongering, for warning them of this. But that is not the case.

While there won't be a "revival" in these days preceding the Tribulation, or during it, these two events will happen (and perhaps this is what you are interpreting as a 'revival'):

Knowledge of what is going to happen to the saints in the last days will increase, as it says in Daniel, according to the revealing of the meanings and relevance of the prophetic scriptures for Christians to those to whom God gives such insight; and through those to whom He gives it, others will also come to understand, and will receive the truth about these things and prepare themselves.
(Daniel 12:4; Daniel 11:33).

And 144,000 men from the twelve tribes of Israel (God's last days "remnant" among the Jews, see Romans 11:25) will be saved.

I don't think either of those two events constitute a 'revival'; but many saints will wash their robes, and God will bring them safely out of the Tribulation (Daniel 12:1). Most of the saints, however, will continue to rebel, and will perish.

As I watched, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them. (Daniel 7:21)
(See also Revelation 13:7 and Daniel 8:10,11)

The hardened rebels will not return to the Lord, nor will they be able to stand in the time of tribulation.

"Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand." (Daniel 12:10)

The glory of the Lord will never fill this earth, but it will fill the one to come.

Prophetic visions can be misinterpreted (either by the prophet or by others) due to incorrect understanding of the Scriptures. For example, if they have been taught that certain things are so or that things will happen in a certain way, due to misunderstanding/misinterpretations of scriptures, they may interpret visions from the Lord according to those misunderstandings/erroneous teachings---trying to make sense of the vision according to what they believe or have been taught, which may not be correct.

Christians who believe that there will be a great revival of some kind in the last days, because of what the prophet Joel wrote, or example, or because of some other scripture, might interpret the glory cloud part of Mr. Barclay's vision as a vision of an end-time revival. But in fact that is not what the vision showed, because there isn't going to be an end-times 'revival'.

In the last days, as the Scriptures testify and the realities around us confirm, there will be apostasy/rebellion among the majority of Christians, not revival. But those things I mentioned above will take place, and God will certainly strengthen and defend His people who love Him to endure and overcome in the time of distress ahead, as the Scriptures also testify. (Revelation 7:9-17)

There will also not be a thousand year reign of Christians on this earth, as I've already explained in another post, but many Christians believe that there will be. So when they hear information from prophets or from other believers to whom the Lord has given dreams or insights, they interpret them according to their incorrect beliefs about certain things, and therefore misunderstand the meaning.

Thanks for sharing the vision.
 
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APOSTASY - The abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief.

There are degrees of apostasy. One does not need to reject all of the teachings or commandments of the New Testament, or deny Jesus Christ with one's mouth, to be in a state of apostasy.

The five churches in the Revelation that the Lord rebuked were in varying degrees of apostasy. Jesus recognized the things they were doing right, but He also rebuked them for the things they were doing wrong and warned them of what the consequences would be if they did not repent.

Christians can fall away from the Lord completely (in which case they are no longer Christians), but those that do do not realize that they are twice-dead. They continue to do and say some Christian things (even serve as pastors). But they are dead. (See the church in Sardis for an example. They still had a reputation of being alive.)

It's not the words of our mouths only which justify us but our actions also; and God judges our actions and the secrets of our hearts and responds to us accordingly. We can deny Jesus and push Him away by our works, while clinging to Him with our lips.

Christians who persist in willful sin and don't repent can potentially forfeit their salvation.

(It's a lie that true Christians can't/don't ever disobey God, or that they can't rebel against Him, or that they will always repent when they sin. They won't always and they don't always.

The Christians in the churches in the Revelation that Jesus rebuked weren't listening to Him, so the Lord sent warning to them by a prophetic message. God sends prophets to His people when they are not listening to Him. Just because we have the Holy Spirit living in us, doesn't mean we will always choose to listen to Him.

To those who shut out His whispers, the Lord sends the trumpet, in the hopes of turning them around before it's too late.

The sad truth is that by the time God starts sending the trumpets, it's already too late for the majority. They will not repent. If they've been shutting out His whispers, ignoring/defying His written Word, and spurning His chastening, they won't listen to the trumpet either. They'll either scoff or get angry, but they won't repent.)

How much sin of this kind---willful sin---is too much?

What fool would find out? That's God's judgment to make.

The church at Ephesus is one example of partial apostasy: Those Christians were still doing some of the things they had been taught and knew to do. The problem was, they weren't doing everything they had been commanded and knew to do. And that was what Jesus rebuked them for. Partial obedience to what we know is just disobedience. (See King Saul for an example.)

Yes, many Christians have abandoned many of the teachings of the New Testament, and are not keeping in step with the Spirit, even though they still have the Holy Spirit living in them. They're simply choosing not to live according to God's commands (which they know, or could and should know) as they ought to be. They keep some and ignore/twist/reject/defy others. This is a form of apostasy.

If partial obedience to what they knew they had been commanded wasn't acceptable for the church at Ephesus, it's not acceptable for any of the rest of us either.

And that's not the same as being perfect and never sinning: We all sin sometimes. We should repent when we do and keep going forward. Sinning from time to time because we have the sinful nature and are not perfect is not the same thing as knowing a command of the Lord and stubbornly refusing to keep it, or living in some known sin and refusing to repent of it.

(And a known sin is to other sins like a magnet to iron filings or staticky fabric to lint; the longer one persists in it, more sins will accumulate in one's life.)

Contentious and insincere people like to try to muddy the waters about this, accusing people who preach obedience to Christ of preaching sinless perfection, or of being 'legalistic' or 'Pharisees'. I think they know exactly what they're doing. People with a bad conscience toward God will always find fault; but their problem is a spiritual one that only God can fix. I don't have time for that.

If you profess to love the Lord, keep His commandments. If you don't love Him, your actions are proving it to Him, regardless of what you say with your mouth.

Push Him away long enough, and He just might give you what you really want.

 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

Christians who persist in willful sin and don't repent can potentially forfeit their salvation.
As usual, your post is a mixture of truth and error. Genuine prophets and prophetesses only presented God's truth. And nowhere in the New Testament will you find that a genuine child of God can -- or will -- forfeit salvation. That is because salvation -- eternal life -- is God's GIFT to the one who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23; Eph 2:8,9). And the reason that no one who is truly saved can "forfeit" their salvation is because (a) they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, (b) they experience the New Birth, (c) they receive the imputed righteousness of Christ as a gift. And the gifts and callings of God are "without repentance" (without God changing His mind and reversing His gifts).

So how does God deal with Christians who wilfully sin short of losing their salvation? As we see in Scripture, they are handed over to Satan "for the destruction of the body" (not the soul). That could mean anything from a serious illness (or wasting disease) to premature death. And the apostle John tells us that "there is a sin unto death". It is illustrated for us in the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira. God also sends chastening upon Christians in order to put them back on the right track. They can also be cut off from fellowship with other Christians, and fellowship with God. That is why John tells believers that if they say they have no sin, they deceive themselves and make God a liar. But if they confess (which implies repentance) their sins, God is faithful and just to forgive them of their sins and cleanse them from all unrighteousness.

So before you post any more spiritual errors, it would be best for you to thorougly understand the Gospel and the teachings of Christ and His apostles in the New Testament. And stop calling yourself a prophetess.
 
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FlyingDove

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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

Departure another perspective:

KJV Dictionary Definition: DEPARTURE, n.

1. The act of going away; a moving from or leaving a place; as a departure from London.

2. Death; decease; removal from the present life.

The time of my departure is at hand. 2 Tim. 4.

Nothing about apostasy mentioned in KJ Bible Dictionary Definition for departure

(NOTE: Find here:4 Bible translations pre 1611 KJV that ALL say departure)

1599 Geneva Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our assembling unto him,
(NOTE: Assembling/gathering together """UNTO""" him/Christ. The catching-up in 1 Thes 4:16-17 is the biggest single gathering at/to that point in time/history)

2 That ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as it were from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand.
(NOTE: John 14:1-3 Jesus while explaing His coming for the Church says be not troubled. Secondly the day of Christ or the Day of the Lord lasts 1000 yrs See 2 Pet 3:8 & Ps 90:4. Begings with the 70th week of Daniel, 7 years of tribulation. 1 Thess 4:16 & these 1st 7 verses in 2 Thes 2 teach the departure/catching-up/rapture must come before the man of sin is revealed & the tribulation begins)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.
(NOTE: I've posted here 4 Bibles written before 1611 KJV. They all say a departure (catching-up = rapture) comes first. Then the man of sin will be revealed)

4 Which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doth sit as God in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
(NOTE: The revealing of the man of sin will happen simultaneously with The Churches departure)

5 Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
(NOTE: Again read John 14:1-3)

6 And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time.
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit of God is the only Person with the supernatural power/authority to do this restraining)

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way.
(NOTE: It's the Holy Spirit Who lives/dwells within each believer that is withholding/restraining the son of perdition/man of sins arrival. When Christ's Holy Spirit filled Body of Christ/Church departs/is caught-up/raptured. Then no restraints for sin remain. The man of sin will simultaneously be cast out of heaven Rev 12:7 and hurled to earth)

Genesis 6:3 (A) The LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:

Find 3 more pre 1611 Bible translations stating departure. No falling away/apostasy mentioned

1526 Tyndale Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst"" and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

1537 Matthews Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the Lord cometh not/except ther come a departure"" that the sinfull man opened/the son of perdition

1540 The Great Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the lord comes not except a departure first"", and the sinfull man be showed, son of perdition,

Final thought:
Find supporting scripture on Gods people (Body of Christ/Church) escaping wrath:

We see here the church escaping the wrath of the great tribulation soon to be poured out

1 Thes 1:10, And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even """Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come""""

Rom 5:9 being now justified by his blood, """"we shall be saved from wrath""""' through him

1 thes 5:9 """God hath not appointed us to wrath""", but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

More Examples:

The angels couldn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were clear

Noah and his family were delivered from wrath before the flood came

The great tribulation to come is called the time of Jacobs/Israels trouble Jer 30:7.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers (the Church is the Bride of Christ), and shut thy doors about thee & hide thyself as it were for a little moment, """until the wrath be past""".
(NOTE: Believers go to The New Jerusalem Revelation 21. The place Jesus goes to prepare for us in (John 14:3)

The NT Body of Christ/Church departs = is caught-up/raptured & delivered for the coming wrath. The man of sin is then revealed, and the coming wrath for a rebellious, Christ rejecting, unbelieving world will begin.
 
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Re: WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE &quot;REBELLION&quot;/''FALLING AWAY&quot; OF THE LAST DAYS

This is to confirm the revival during the time of trouble of the end.

"In 1987 I was a speaker at a camp meeting in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I spoke during the Thursday evening service. Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin spoke during the Friday evening service. I remember that I had just flown in from meetings in Paris, France. I mentioned to my wife how much I would like to stay and hear Dr. Hagin speak. She agreed.
As Dr. Hagin entered the pulpit, he began to pray in tongues. When he started, I started. A moment later, I was caught up in a vision (I was told later that it was probably more like a trance). As I went into this vision, I remember how Dr. Hagin's voice was getting quieter and quieter, until I could hear him no more. It was so quiet all around me I felt like I could hear my own heartbeat.
This Kenneth Hagin ? ... the drunk in the spirit Kenneth Hagin ? The only sign you should have been seeking is this one ... EXIT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2V7KbbfRHA
 
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Yes, the Bible does teach that Christians have a choice of whether to remain in Christ or not after coming to be in Him. God's election is not our choice, but what we do with our own free will after being saved is. God's promises always have conditions. It's foolish to claim the one and overlook the other. Once-saved-always-saved is a false teaching. People who believe that it is Biblical are deceived. The Bible itself says no such thing---except to people who are deceived. You're calling truth error and error truth. (Including scripture wouldn't likely make any difference to you, so I haven't.)
 
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This Kenneth Hagin ? ... the drunk in the spirit Kenneth Hagin ? The only sign you should have been seeking is this one ... EXIT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2V7KbbfRHA

I don't know anything about Kenneth Hagin (and I probably don't want to); but the vision Stillness shared, which I was responding to, was not Hagin's vision but that of someone who was attending a Hagin meeting. I don't know what Hagin was preaching, but it isn't mentioned whether what this man (Mr. Barclay) saw had anything to do with what Hagin was saying at the time.

I was simply analyzing the vision.
 
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Comparing scripture to scripture makes it very clear that the return of the Lord (and there is only one) is on the last day of the Tribulation (which is also the last day of time, period; there won't be another day after it).

The falling away/rebellion that precedes the revealing of the antichrist is the falling away of Christians from the teachings of Christ, not the rapture. It is a falling away, not a catching away.

The wrath of God which Christians are spared is not Satan's wrath of persecution during the Tribulation, which is to test the faith of the saints. The wrath of God Christians are spared is:

1) The judgments of God that will be affecting unsaved people (those without the seal of God on their foreheads) during the Tribulation

2) Being burned alive when Jesus destroys the earth by fire at His coming

3) The lake of fire (the second death).

All of this is conditional upon us remaining in Christ, however.

The wrath of Satan is not the wrath of God. Christians are not appointed to God's wrath (which doesn't mean we can't reap it if we break the conditions of His promises, and can't do anything to forfeit our salvation---but that we are appointed, by God's election, for salvation, not destruction); but we are appointed to endure the wrath of Satan during the Tribulation.