THEOLOGICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR SUNDAY OBSERVANCE - THE NEW CREATION

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 1, 2014
733
33
0
#1
The number “8” has to do with the new creation, and so does the number “50”….which is (7X7) + 1.



Jesus worked 6 days (symbolically) in his ministry, and finished his work on the cross on Friday (“It is finished”) then rested in the grave on Saturday. He was resurrected on Sunday (day 8) as a new creation (in terms of his resurrection body; not in terms of being YHVH).



Jesus is the BEGINNING of the new creation; the firstfruits (I Corinthians 15, Revelation 3:1).



Hebrew children were physically circumcised on the 8th day, which is a physical type of the new birth or the new creation or being born again (Leviticus 12:3).



On the first Pentecost after the Exodus (which is calculated as the 50th day from the weekly Sabbath during Passover), the Israelites received the Law on Mount Sinai (by Jewish tradition), and became a new physical nation that typified the Church.



On the first Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit was received by the apostolic church, and the Church became a new spiritual nation; a kingdom of priests (Acts 2).



On the land sabbath year, at the end of the year, all debt was forgiven, and there is a new beginning starting in the eighth year (Deuteronomy 15:1-6). This is symbolic of Jesus and the forgiveness of our sins to begin a new life.



On the Jubilee year, which is the 50th year in the Israelite calendar system, all debts were forgiven and the land was returned back to the original property owners; in essence a new life and a restoration (Leviticus 25:8-15). For the believer, this relates to the liberation that we receive in Jesus, where our spiritual debt is forgiven.



So, these things point toward the new creation, which starts with Jesus’ resurrection. For us, regeneration (being born again) is the beginning of our new life. Ultimately, the new creation reaches fulfillment in a New Heavens and New Earth/New Jerusalem (Revelation 21-22).



By the way, I believe this is the theological justification for the day of worship being on Sunday rather than the Jewish Sabbath. I read a quote by an early church father that gave me some hint concerning this, and now I am more convinced that the early church had SOLID THEOLOGICAL REASONS for the practice.

Jesus our Lord, the Church, and each individual Christian, is a new creation.


There are probably other incidences of "8" and "50" I am not thinking about. I'd appreciate knowing those references if you can email me on christianchat AND express them here. I'm sure our resident Sabbathkeepers will begin bombarding the thread so I might not notice your replies :)

For those who start blaming Constantine, GET AN EDUCATION. The vast majority of Christians had already abandoned Sabbath observance by AD140, and even SDA historian Samuele Bacchiocchi acknowledged that. It's pretty hilarious that Constantine the boogie man is accredited with this, when even Sabbathkeeping historians acknowledge that it is not true. Constantine's edict required that individuals be given the opportunity to rest on Sunday, and did not outlaw keeping the Sabbath. Making claims about this only displays your ignorance.

I suggest that you read Samuele Bacchiocchi's book From Sabbath to Sunday.

By the way, I suggest that people check out every fact that more radical Sabbathkeepers present. As an ex Sabbathkeeper, I believed their propaganda. When you start checking out the resources those sorts of people quote, you find out that they reference questionable resources, and go beyond what history has said on this topic. Basically, you're talking about conspiracy theories.

There are some Messianic Jews, etcetera, that prefer the shadows and types of the Mosaic Covenant, and observe the Sabbath instead of Sunday, in some cases to continue remaining viable witnesses to family and others. I have no issue with those Christians, and applaud them.

The ones who are attacking the Church and calling it pagan or false are the ones I have issues with, even those claiming to be the true believers. I believe Revelation speaks to the fate of those who continue in their attacks on the Church, and it isn't pretty.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#2
Jesus was executed on Wednesday and was entombed just before sunset on Wednesday..

Any day can be a day we remember the Resurrection of Jesus.We should worship God every day in our love for Him and our love for our fellow human beings.

As long as we do not try to call Sunday the Sabbath. Then it does not matter if people congregate on that day..

The Biblical Sabbath starts on Friday sunset and ends at Saturday sunset..
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#3
Jesus was executed on Wednesday and was entombed just before sunset on Wednesday.
Assuming that this is correct (and I am not disagreeing) here is what we get:

WED SUNSET - THU SUNSET -- DAY 1
THU SUNSET - FRI SUNSET -- DAY 2
FRI SUNSET - SAT SUNSET -- DAY 3

So any time after sunset on Saturday would be THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. And since 3 days and 3 nights were required for Christ's entombment, He arose on the first day of the week (perhaps after midnight, perhaps between 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.).
Any day can be a day we remember the Resurrection of Jesus.
FALSE. The first day of the week was called the Lord's Day for a special purpose -- it was the Christian day of worship and of rest.
We should worship God every day in our love for Him and our love for our fellow human beings.
TRUE. As long as we do not neglect, ignore, or despise the Lord's Day.
As long as we do not try to call Sunday the Sabbath.
As a matter of fact Christians after the Reformation called the Lord's Day the Christian sabbath, and rightly so.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#4
Assuming that this is correct (and I am not disagreeing) here is what we get:

WED SUNSET - THU SUNSET -- DAY 1
THU SUNSET - FRI SUNSET -- DAY 2
FRI SUNSET - SAT SUNSET -- DAY 3

So any time after sunset on Saturday would be THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. And since 3 days and 3 nights were required for Christ's entombment, He arose on the first day of the week (perhaps after midnight, perhaps between 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.).
I would say he resurected around the time of sunset saturday.. I do not see why you have included 3..00am and 5.00am ? It is not really nessecary..


Any day can be a day we remember the Resurrection of Jesus.

FALSE. The first day of the week was called the Lord's Day for a special purpose -- it was the Christian day of worship and of rest.
I assure you i can indeed remember that Jesus was raised from the dead on the first day of the week.. Right here right now.. ((((( Adstar remembers Jesus was raised on the first day of the week )))) See? It's easy give it a try you can do it too :)

As a matter of fact Christians after the Reformation called the Lord's Day the Christian sabbath, and rightly so.
I don't care if people call the day this or that.. I defer to the Bible and the Bible declares the Sabbath to start at sunset friday and end at sunset Saturday... I do not care if i am the last person on earth to believe and declare this.. I will stand alone with the truth rather then join the crowd and be a pleaser of men..
 
Feb 1, 2014
733
33
0
#5
Jesus was executed on Wednesday and was entombed just before sunset on Wednesday..

Any day can be a day we remember the Resurrection of Jesus.We should worship God every day in our love for Him and our love for our fellow human beings.

As long as we do not try to call Sunday the Sabbath. Then it does not matter if people congregate on that day..

The Biblical Sabbath starts on Friday sunset and ends at Saturday sunset..
I reject the "Three days and three nights" view. It only relies on one verse, Matt 12:40, and there are many verses that say "the third day".

In addition, reading the verses relating to the chronology is awkward with that view. Those who claim it is true have to do a lot of gymnastics to "prove" it..such as claiming, in the same narrative, that "Sabbath" in one verse is talking about the weekly Sabbath and an annual Sabbath in another verse.

My position is that the Saturday was a double-Sabbath..the weekly as well as annual Sabbath.

I used to hold the view you're suggesting but I don't anymore..as an Armstrongite.

I recommend the book Three Days and Three Nights by Ralph Woodrow. He held the Wed-Saturday view too, prior to realizing the problems with it...it's bogus and doesn't line up with the wave-sheaf offering being on Sunday either.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#6
I reject the "Three days and three nights" view. It only relies on one verse, Matt 12:40, and there are many verses that say "the third day".

In addition, reading the verses relating to the chronology is awkward with that view. Those who claim it is true have to do a lot of gymnastics to "prove" it..such as claiming, in the same narrative, that "Sabbath" in one verse is talking about the weekly Sabbath and an annual Sabbath in another verse.

My position is that the Saturday was a double-Sabbath..the weekly as well as annual Sabbath.

I used to hold the view you're suggesting but I don't anymore..as an Armstrongite.

I recommend the book Three Days and Three Nights by Ralph Woodrow. He held the Wed-Saturday view too, prior to realizing the problems with it...it's bogus and doesn't line up with the wave-sheaf offering being on Sunday either.
Well i was never an armstrongite.. isn't he the guy who came up with the British Israeli doctrine? That the British people where the genetically reconstructed Hebrews ? Now that was a weird doctrine if ever i have seen one.. something like the mormons would come up with.. :)
 
Jun 6, 2015
171
0
0
#7
The number “8” has to do with the new creation, and so does the number “50”….which is (7X7) + 1.



Jesus worked 6 days (symbolically) in his ministry, and finished his work on the cross on Friday (“It is finished”) then rested in the grave on Saturday. He was resurrected on Sunday (day 8) as a new creation (in terms of his resurrection body; not in terms of being YHVH).



Jesus is the BEGINNING of the new creation; the firstfruits (I Corinthians 15, Revelation 3:1).



Hebrew children were physically circumcised on the 8th day, which is a physical type of the new birth or the new creation or being born again (Leviticus 12:3).



On the first Pentecost after the Exodus (which is calculated as the 50th day from the weekly Sabbath during Passover), the Israelites received the Law on Mount Sinai (by Jewish tradition), and became a new physical nation that typified the Church.



On the first Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit was received by the apostolic church, and the Church became a new spiritual nation; a kingdom of priests (Acts 2).



On the land sabbath year, at the end of the year, all debt was forgiven, and there is a new beginning starting in the eighth year (Deuteronomy 15:1-6). This is symbolic of Jesus and the forgiveness of our sins to begin a new life.



On the Jubilee year, which is the 50th year in the Israelite calendar system, all debts were forgiven and the land was returned back to the original property owners; in essence a new life and a restoration (Leviticus 25:8-15). For the believer, this relates to the liberation that we receive in Jesus, where our spiritual debt is forgiven.



So, these things point toward the new creation, which starts with Jesus’ resurrection. For us, regeneration (being born again) is the beginning of our new life. Ultimately, the new creation reaches fulfillment in a New Heavens and New Earth/New Jerusalem (Revelation 21-22).



By the way, I believe this is the theological justification for the day of worship being on Sunday rather than the Jewish Sabbath. I read a quote by an early church father that gave me some hint concerning this, and now I am more convinced that the early church had SOLID THEOLOGICAL REASONS for the practice.

Jesus our Lord, the Church, and each individual Christian, is a new creation.


There are probably other incidences of "8" and "50" I am not thinking about. I'd appreciate knowing those references if you can email me on christianchat AND express them here. I'm sure our resident Sabbathkeepers will begin bombarding the thread so I might not notice your replies :)

For those who start blaming Constantine, GET AN EDUCATION. The vast majority of Christians had already abandoned Sabbath observance by AD140, and even SDA historian Samuele Bacchiocchi acknowledged that. It's pretty hilarious that Constantine the boogie man is accredited with this, when even Sabbathkeeping historians acknowledge that it is not true. Constantine's edict required that individuals be given the opportunity to rest on Sunday, and did not outlaw keeping the Sabbath. Making claims about this only displays your ignorance.

I suggest that you read Samuele Bacchiocchi's book From Sabbath to Sunday.

By the way, I suggest that people check out every fact that more radical Sabbathkeepers present. As an ex Sabbathkeeper, I believed their propaganda. When you start checking out the resources those sorts of people quote, you find out that they reference questionable resources, and go beyond what history has said on this topic. Basically, you're talking about conspiracy theories.

There are some Messianic Jews, etcetera, that prefer the shadows and types of the Mosaic Covenant, and observe the Sabbath instead of Sunday, in some cases to continue remaining viable witnesses to family and others. I have no issue with those Christians, and applaud them.

The ones who are attacking the Church and calling it pagan or false are the ones I have issues with, even those claiming to be the true believers. I believe Revelation speaks to the fate of those who continue in their attacks on the Church, and it isn't pretty.
In the Scriptures number 8 always mean a new beginning and number 50 always mean the Holly Spirit, Christ became our Sabbath Matt.12:8 and Col.2:14-16, so for Christians everyday is the Sabbath day. God bless
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,518
1,045
113
Australia
#8
Some say this is symbolic of spiritual rest in Christ, but it is both physical and Spiritual rest, Paul is talking to Sabbath keepers that knew about the Sabbath rest and is also talking about the spiritual rest in keeping the physical Sabbath rest.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (Physical rest, creation week)
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. (kat-ap'-ow-sis, - From G2664; reposing down, that is, (by Hebraism) abode: - rest.)
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (He didn't give another day)
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (rest here = sabbatismos = Sabbath day rest)
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

This is plan to me that there remains a Sabbath day rest and it is the one that God rested on.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#9
Jesus worked 6 days (symbolically) in his ministry, and finished his work on the cross on Friday (“It is finished”) then rested in the grave on Saturday. He was resurrected on Sunday (day 8) as a new creation (in terms of his resurrection body; not in terms of being YHVH).

The Friday crucifixion needs to be looked into more, here are the verses that speak of the Day of Preperation or the holy covocation, because it was a yearly Sabbath that accured during the Passover for the Feast of Unleavened Bread of the Lord. It is in Leviticus 23:1-8

Leviticus 23:1-8 “The Lord spoke to Moses, saying,2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, These are the appointed feasts of the Lord that you shall proclaim as holy convocations; they are my appointed feasts.3 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwelling places.4 These are the appointed feasts of the Lord, the holy convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them.5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight, is the Lord's Passover.6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.8 But you shall present a food offering to the Lord for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.”

Now that we have seen in the Scripture that during the Passover there is a holy covocation with would have a day of Preperation before it. Now let's look at the days before the first day of the week, after the Sabbath had passed, when the sun was rising.

Mark 15:42 “And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath,”

John 19:31 “Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.”

Matthew 27:62 “The next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate”

After looking at these Scriptures, we see that the body was taken down from the cross so it would not be on the cross on this high day Sabbath. Notice that the Pharisees came to Pilate the day after the day of Preperation, but it does not say it is the Sabbath or weekly Sabbath, just the day after the day of Preperation and the came to the Tomb after the Sabbath.

Matthew 28:1
“Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.”

For thos that say Jesus rose on the Sabbath, if that were true the women would of came to the Tomb after 6 P.M. of the start of the first day of the week, but they did not and the Scripture plave an emphasis on this by recording that the women came, "toward the dawn of the first day of the week (Sunday)" or as Mark puts it, "when the Sabbath was past", "very early on the first day" and "the sun had risen"

Mark 16:1-2
“When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.”

Let's see what Luke and John say, Luke 24:1
“But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared.”

John 20:1 “Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.”

Luke adds, "the first day of the week, at early dawn," now John adds that Mary came on the "first day of the week" and "while it was still dark". So we have four accounts and all four have the ressurection happening on the first day of the week or Sunday, with two emphesising that the Sabbath (weekly), had past or it was after and the four happened at a time before, while or after the sun had risen or around dawn, which is around 6 A.M. The four accounts are not all the same and they are not of the same women either.

We know that Jesus said he would suffer for 72 hours and those 72 hours began a the roosters crow pr Peter denying Jesus for the third time, read Luke 22:60-65


“But Peter said, “Man, I do not know what you are talking about.” And immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed.61 And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.”62 And he went out and wept bitterly.

63 Now the men who were holding Jesus in custody were mocking him as they beat him.64 They also blindfolded him and kept asking him, “Prophesy! Who is it that struck you?”65 And they said many other things against him, blaspheming him.”

The roosters crow was the marking of the starting of the 72 hours that Christ would suffer, be crucified, put to dath and rise after three days. The roosters crow marks the third watch or 3 A.M. withChrist being crucified on the same day and it being the day of Preperation before the holy covocation or the yearly Sabbath, then the weekly Sabbath, He was cricified on a Thursday and rose from the died on the forst day of the week some time after 3 A.M. and before 6 A.M. making it threr days and three nights that the Son of Man would suffer or fulfill Isaiah 53 and these teaches of Chirst.

Matthew 20:17-19 “And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them,18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”

Mark 10:32-34 “And they were on the road, going up to Jerusalem, and Jesus was walking ahead of them. And they were amazed, and those who followed were afraid. And taking the twelve again, he began to tell them what was to happen to him,33 saying, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death and deliver him over to the Gentiles.34 And they will mock him and spit on him, and flog him and kill him. And after three days he will rise.”


Luke 18:31-33 “And taking the twelve, he said to them, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished.32 For he will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit upon.33 And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the third day he will rise.”
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,518
1,045
113
Australia
#10
Is there any validity to the argument that the Ten Commandments were all abolished at the cross, and then nine of them restored in the New Testament? This is a specious invention to attempt evasion of the fourth commandment. No Christian has ever found fault with nine of the commandments. Why would they want to get rid of the fourth? Obviously because they are breaking it and do not want to believe that they stand condemned by it. Can they annul the entire decalogue, and then reinstate nine of them? The mosaic law was annulled—not the Ten Commandments. Further, James has declared that the whole of that law is binding, and breaking any one of them is sin. How can anybody extract the fourth commandment from the Ten Commandments and still call it a “whole law”?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#11
The number “8” has to do with the new creation, and so does the number “50”….which is (7X7) + 1.



Jesus worked 6 days (symbolically) in his ministry, and finished his work on the cross on Friday (“It is finished”) then rested in the grave on Saturday. He was resurrected on Sunday (day 8) as a new creation (in terms of his resurrection body; not in terms of being YHVH).



Jesus is the BEGINNING of the new creation; the firstfruits (I Corinthians 15, Revelation 3:1).



Hebrew children were physically circumcised on the 8th day, which is a physical type of the new birth or the new creation or being born again (Leviticus 12:3).



On the first Pentecost after the Exodus (which is calculated as the 50th day from the weekly Sabbath during Passover), the Israelites received the Law on Mount Sinai (by Jewish tradition), and became a new physical nation that typified the Church.



On the first Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit was received by the apostolic church, and the Church became a new spiritual nation; a kingdom of priests (Acts 2).



On the land sabbath year, at the end of the year, all debt was forgiven, and there is a new beginning starting in the eighth year (Deuteronomy 15:1-6). This is symbolic of Jesus and the forgiveness of our sins to begin a new life.



On the Jubilee year, which is the 50th year in the Israelite calendar system, all debts were forgiven and the land was returned back to the original property owners; in essence a new life and a restoration (Leviticus 25:8-15). For the believer, this relates to the liberation that we receive in Jesus, where our spiritual debt is forgiven.



So, these things point toward the new creation, which starts with Jesus’ resurrection. For us, regeneration (being born again) is the beginning of our new life. Ultimately, the new creation reaches fulfillment in a New Heavens and New Earth/New Jerusalem (Revelation 21-22).



By the way, I believe this is the theological justification for the day of worship being on Sunday rather than the Jewish Sabbath. I read a quote by an early church father that gave me some hint concerning this, and now I am more convinced that the early church had SOLID THEOLOGICAL REASONS for the practice.

Jesus our Lord, the Church, and each individual Christian, is a new creation.


There are probably other incidences of "8" and "50" I am not thinking about. I'd appreciate knowing those references if you can email me on christianchat AND express them here. I'm sure our resident Sabbathkeepers will begin bombarding the thread so I might not notice your replies :)

For those who start blaming Constantine, GET AN EDUCATION. The vast majority of Christians had already abandoned Sabbath observance by AD140, and even SDA historian Samuele Bacchiocchi acknowledged that. It's pretty hilarious that Constantine the boogie man is accredited with this, when even Sabbathkeeping historians acknowledge that it is not true. Constantine's edict required that individuals be given the opportunity to rest on Sunday, and did not outlaw keeping the Sabbath. Making claims about this only displays your ignorance.

I suggest that you read Samuele Bacchiocchi's book From Sabbath to Sunday.

By the way, I suggest that people check out every fact that more radical Sabbathkeepers present. As an ex Sabbathkeeper, I believed their propaganda. When you start checking out the resources those sorts of people quote, you find out that they reference questionable resources, and go beyond what history has said on this topic. Basically, you're talking about conspiracy theories.

There are some Messianic Jews, etcetera, that prefer the shadows and types of the Mosaic Covenant, and observe the Sabbath instead of Sunday, in some cases to continue remaining viable witnesses to family and others. I have no issue with those Christians, and applaud them.

The ones who are attacking the Church and calling it pagan or false are the ones I have issues with, even those claiming to be the true believers. I believe Revelation speaks to the fate of those who continue in their attacks on the Church, and it isn't pretty.
This is intense extrabiblical gymnastics...

Here I can simplyfy it:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart." Six days you labour, and shall do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

There! The Biblicaly correct version!
[/FONT]
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,518
1,045
113
Australia
#12
Nissan 14, 15 and 16 are the days in question here, the Passover week, Nissan 15 is a yearly Sabbath which is different to the weekly Sabbath and Nissan 14 is a preparation day for that Sabbath. Look at the shadows and what happened on each day of the Passover and compare it with what Jesus did. It was a High Sabbath which meant the yearly and weekly Sabbaths fell on the same day. And Nissan 16 is the day of first fruits which is when Jesus rose. It only makes sense if Jesus died at 3pm Friday.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
#13
By the way, I believe this is the theological justification for the day of worship being on Sunday rather than the Jewish Sabbath. I read a quote by an early church father that gave me some hint concerning this, and now I am more convinced that the early church had SOLID THEOLOGICAL REASONS for the practice.
Hmm pointing people away from God's Word again I see to the teaching and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Now if what you are teaching is true, you should be able to answer at least one of these question........

Now please show me one scripture that actually SAYS....

1, God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day?

2, Where does it say in God's Word the Jesus is a Sabbath?

3, The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4, Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5, Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6, That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7, That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8, Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9, That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10, From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11, Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12, That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13, That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14, Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15, Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16, Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17, That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18, That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19, That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20, That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21, Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22, Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23, Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24, Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25, Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26, Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27, Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

If you cannot answer any of the above, you may want to consider what it is you believe. Only the BELIEVERS and FOLLOWERS of GOD'S Word are His people. Those who continue practicing KNOWN SIN will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Who should we obey God or man?

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God ask s us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only the believers and followers of God's Word are his people. Those that practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,518
1,045
113
Australia
#14
This is intense extrabiblical gymnastics...

Here I can simplyfy it:

Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”


Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart." Six days you labour, and shall do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה your Strength. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days יהוה made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.”



Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."


Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."



Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."



Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

There! The Biblicaly correct version!
Yes ,,, good to see clear Bible verses.

You can twist a verse here and there but the big pitcher is clear about the Sabbath.

Understanding the difference between the ordinances and the royal law, the shadows and types and the moral law, is important and knowing that the Sabbath was given before sin or Jew and will continue to be kept after this world is finished tells me that it still stands today.

The earthly sanctuary was copied by Moses from the pattern in heaven. All its priestly ministry was a type and shadow of the work of Jesus, the true High Priest, in the holy and most holy places of the heavenly sanctuary. “Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us” (Hebrews 9:24). John the Revelator beheld the original sanctuary in heaven where Christ now ministers as High Priest to make atonement for sin. What is sin? “Sin is the transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4). Which law? John gives the answer in Revelation 11:19, “... the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament.”

Think of it for a moment! This is the real thing from which all the Old Testament was patterned. Here is the real Priest, the real mediation, and IN THE ARK OF THE COVENANT, the real Ten Commandments. But please consider this horrendous scenario—IF THE LAW THAT WAS IN THE ARK WAS ABROGATED AT THE CROSS, CHRIST IS MEDIATING FOR THE TRANSGRESSION OF AN OBSOLETE LAW! Keep in mind that John is beholding this heavenly scene years and years after the cross.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


James wrote, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty” (James 2:10-12).


 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#15
I think that in Christianity you cant have a theological justification for any day observance.

Yes, there are many reasons why sunday is special for Christians. But thats all. Neither Sabbath, nor Sunday are required to observe.


----


I will use formulations of the Second Helvetic Confession:

"For we do not believe that one day is any holier than another..."

"Although religion is not bound to time, yet it cannot be cultivated and exercised without a proper distribution and arrangement of time.
Every Church, therefore, chooses for itself a certain time for public prayers, and for the preaching of the Gospel, and for the celebration of the sacraments."

(2nd Helvetic Confession)
 
Last edited:
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
#16
I think that in Christianity you cant have a theological justification for any day observance.

Yes, there are many reasons why sunday is special for Christians. But thats all. Neither Sabbath, nor Sunday are required to observe.
Yet God would disagree with you...........

The 4th commandments
(4/10)

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY
. <Why? Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY?>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God ask s us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only the believers and followers of God's Word are his people. Those that practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#17
Yet God would disagree with you...........

The 4th commandments
(4/10)

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY
. <Why? Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY?>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God ask s us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only the believers and followers of God's Word are his people. Those that practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
God said through Paul:

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind."
(Rom 14:5)

Your quotes sticked together like a puzzle from varous time eras are not actual and are after Christ and are not for non-Jews.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
#18
God said through Paul:

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind."(Rom 14:5) Your quotes sticked together like a puzzle from varous time eras are not actual and are after Christ and are not for non-Jews.
Yes he did, now can you please show me in the chapter that he is referring to God's 4th commandment?

For that matter can you show me in the entire book of Romans where the 4th commandment is even mentioned?

Romans 14 is talking about fasting and the shadow Holy days referred to in Leviticus 23 that pointed to Jesus.

God's 4th commandments is not even mentioned.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God ask s us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only the believers and followers of God's Word are his people. Those that practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#19
Yes he did, now can you please show me in the chapter that he is referring to God's 4th commandment?

For that matter can you show me in the entire book of Romans where the 4th commandment is even mentioned?

Romans 14 is talking about fasting and the shadow Holy days referred to in Leviticus 23 that pointed to Jesus.

God's 4th commandments is not even mentioned.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God ask s us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only the believers and followers of God's Word are his people. Those that practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
God's 4th commandment is not special from the rest of OT commandments. It was given to Jews till Christ.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
#20
God's 4th commandment is not special from the rest of OT commandments. It was given to Jews till Christ.
"Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people that BELIEVE and FOLLOW HIM.

Galatians 3
28,
THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK , there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

links with.....

Romans 9
6,
FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN : but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMIS E <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED

and again.....

Romans 2
28
, FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: 29, BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

If you are not a part of God's Israel circumcised in the heart by Faith you are not a part of the NEW Covenant...

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the house of ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

If you are a BELIEVER and FOLLOWER of GOD'S WORD then you are a part of GOD'S Israel if you are still in your SINS and do not BELIEVE God's WORD then it is true you are NOT a part of God's ISRAEL.