SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS - DO YOU MEASURE UP AGAINST THE BIBLICAL DESCRIPTIONS OF SIN?

[sparkman]

Before I start, I want others to be aware that I believe that all in Christ should be seeking holiness. If anyone claims otherwise about me, they are a liar. God is conforming the believer to the image of his Son. I do not deny that and if anyone is claiming it, they are a liar and showing themselves to be sinners.

I think some believe they are sinless because they accept a limited definition of sin. If they define sin as merely breaking the Ten Commandments in the letter, that's an inadequate definition of sin. Scripture mentions tons of commands for New Covenant believers. Claiming that the Ten Commandments defines sin exhaustively is a false understanding of sin..in fact, I believe the proper definition of sin is falling short of the glory of God, as Christ reflected, rather than based on the Ten Commandments (see Romans 3:23, 6:23). I John 5:17 also lists "all wrongdoing" as sin..and the Holy Spirit-led person is able to discern acts that are wrong, whether they are on a list or not.

I think many sinless perfectionists are either 1) mentally ill; some individuals suffering from mental illness have religious delusions 2) poorly educated on sin or 3) self-righteous or blind concerning their own nature..and that's not surprising because Jeremiah 17:9-10 reveals that the fallen nature deceives us as to our true nature...this requires a revelation of God to show us our fallen nature.

I remember my pastor telling me I was self-righteous, and encouraging me to ask God to reveal my sinful nature to me. I didn't see my self-righteousness, but I followed my pastor's advice, and within a few weeks God showed me my sinful nature. I was able at that time to place my faith in Jesus.

I'm going to present a list of things the Scripture describes as sin. Those who are claiming to be sinless, do you ever fail to do things you shouldn't do (sins of omission), and/or do you still commit some sins (sins of commission)?

I am borrowing this list from The Complete Bible Answer Book by Hank Hanegraaff, with a bit of modification.

SINS OF OMISSION

Failing to believe in Jesus Christ (John 3:16-18, 6:29, 1 John 5:12)

Failing to love God (Deut 6:4, Mark 12:30)

Failing to love your neighbor as yourself (Mark 12:31)

Failing to trust God (Proverbs 3:5, Isaiah 26:4)

Failing to worship God (Deuteronomy 6:13)

Failing to honor God (Proverbs 3:9, John 5:23)

Failing to honor the Son (John 5:23)

Failing to honor one's parents (Exodus 20:12)

Failing to give thanks to God in everything (Psalms 105:1, Romans 1:21, 1 Thessalonians 5:18)

Failing to glorify God (Psalm 34:3, Romans 1:21)

Failing to fear the Lord (Deutoronomy 6:13, Proverbs 3:7)

Failing to do the good one knows one ought to do (James 4:17)

Failing to test new teaching by Scripture (1 Thessalonians 5:21, Acts 17:11)

Failing to discern and guard against false teachers and prophets (Matthew 7:15-20, Acts 20:28-31)

Failing to learn and believe Scripture (Deuteronomy 6:6, 2 Timothy 2:15)

Failing to guard life and doctrine (1 Timothy 4:16)

Failing to repay debts (Romans 13:7)

Failing to care for orphans and widows in distress (James 1:20)

Failing to defend the faith (1 Peter 3:15, Jude 3)

Failing to share the gospel (Matthew 28:19)

Failing to honor others (Romans 12:9)

Failing to keep your fervor (Romans 12:9)

Failing to serve or give (Romans 12:9)

Failing to live at peace (Romans 12:18)

Failing to be clear-minded and alert (1 Peter 5:8)

Failing to rejoice (1 Thessalonians 5:16)

Failing to pray without ceasing (Luke 18:1, Ephesians 6:18, 1 Thessalonians 5:17)

Failing to pray for fellow believers (James 5:16)

Failing to forgive (Matthew 6:15)

SINS OF COMMISSION

Idolatry (Exodus 20:3-6, Romans 1:21-25; 1 John 5:21) - extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone other than God, to the point where this object, habit, person defines one's identity and defines one's purpose in life...examples, substance abuse, food, career goals, family, friends, etcetera...where do you spend your money, time, talent?

Blasphemy (Mark 3:29) - the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

Misusing the Lord's Name (Exodus 20:7)

Covetousness (Exodus 20:17, Romans 1:29, 7:7, 13:9) - having or showing a great, unending desire to possess something, typically something belonging to someone else

Wrong teaching (Matthew 23:15, Galatians 1:8, James 3:1)

Insincere love (Romans 12:9)

Causing someone else to sin (Mark 9:42)

Sexual impurity (Matthew 5:28, Romans 1:24)

Adultery (Exodus 20:14, Hebrews 13:4)

Homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9)

Selfish ambition (Galatians 5:20)

Fits of rage (Galatians 5:20)

Slave trading (1 Timothy 1:10)

Lying (Exodus 23:1, Romans 13:9, Revelation 21:8)

Hypocrisy (1 Peter 2:1) - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense

Drunkenness (1 Corinthians 6:10)

Stealing (Exodus 20:15, 1 Corinthians 6:10)

Sorcery (Deuteronomy 18:10)

Witchcraft (Deuteronomy 18:10)

Divination (Deuteronomy 18:10) - the practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means.

Interpreting Omens (Deuteronomy 18:10)

Consulting the Dead (Deuteronomy 18:11)

Astrology (Deuteronomy 18:9-13, Isaiah 47:13-14)

Depravity (Romans 1:29) - moral corruption; wickedness.

Envy (Romans 1:29, 1 Peter 2:1)

Deceit (Romans 1:29, 1 Peter 2:1) - concealing or misrepresenting the truth in order to mislead someone

Murder (Romans 1:29)

Strife (Romans 1:29)

Malice (Romans 1:29, 1 Peter 2:1) - the intent or desire to do evil, ill will, toward another

Gossip (Romans 1:29)

Slander (Romans 1:30, 1 Peter 2:1)

Hating God (Romans 1:30)

Insolence (Romans 1:30) - rude or disrespectful behavior

Arrogance (Romans 1:30) - having or revealing an exaggerated sense of self importance or personal abilities

Boastfulness (Romans 1:30)

Inventing Evil (Romans 1:30)

Disobeying parents (Romans 1:30)

Disobeying the governing authorities (Romans 13:1-7)

Worrying (Luke 12:22-32)

 

[dcontroversal]

We have a few on here who claim to be sinless, claim to keep the law and for sure all who admit they fail occasionally and sin for sure push a do as you please lifestyle because we believe in eternal security.............

 

[sparkman]

The reason I'm bringing this topic up relates to daily conversations for almost a month in the Bible study room regarding sin and claims individuals are making regarding being totally sinless. I find myself agreeing with some points on one side, and disagreeing with some points, and agreeing with some points on the other side, and disagreeing with some points on the other side.

I sense hostility from both sides..one side, I think, thinks they are being judged for having continual struggles with sin issues. The other side is accusing.

My remarks include the ridiculousness of anyone submitting themselves on this forum to be judged by others, and informing them that Jesus is their Master, not some guy on the other side of a computer screen who may be leading an immoral lifestyle, or be under a delusion, while claiming moral superiority. They need to be bringing their issues to their church leadership if they are struggling with significant issues. The offended parties likely know this is true. At my age, I've learned not to consider individuals on the other side of a computer screen to have that sort of credibility with me, that I would get very upset with their assessment of my character. And, I generally assume most people are making a serious effort at pursuing holiness and are concerned with it...and not accusing others of being lax on sin.

 

[sparkman]

We have a few on here who claim to be sinless, claim to keep the law and for sure all who admit they fail occasionally and sin for sure push a do as you please lifestyle because we believe in eternal security.............

That's one of the common accusations. I wonder if they'll take my poll

I should have set it up so the names are available..that way they'd get publicity. They may not be interested in anonymous polls.

 

[sparkman]

Another thing..if you DON'T agree that items above are sins, and are a sinless perfectionist type, which items do you disagree with, and claim they are not sins?

 

[gb9]

I wish you could have wrote this when peterjens was still here. would have loved to see him try to double-talk his way through this comprehensive list.

 

[dcontroversal]

I wish you could have wrote this when peterjens was still here. would have loved to see him try to double-talk his way through this comprehensive list.

Hahahhahha and a few others as well! SOME still here as well....

 

[Magenta]

We have a few on here who claim to be sinless, claim to keep the law and for sure all who admit they fail occasionally and sin for sure push a do as you please lifestyle because we believe in eternal security.............

Always interesting to see those who claim to live by the law admit that they do sin occasionally, while claiming at the same time of others who sin, that those others are slaves to sin. They live by a double standard, acting as if we cannot see it.

 

[sparkman]

Regarding my remark concerning limiting one's definition of sin to the Ten Commandments, as those who quote I John 3:4 sometimes do, my position regarding I John 3:4 is that it is talking about the enduring moral and spiritual principles that define God's image, best expressed in Jesus Christ.

This moral and spiritual law was the basis of some of the commandments within the entire Torah (not just the Ten Commandments), but the commandments themselves in many cases were peculiar to their time and culture.

Anyone who claims to be keeping the Mosaic Covenant is deluded as there is no Temple and priesthood, so the system cannot be observed. However, a spirit-led believer can read the Torah and discern direction from them. In many cases the apostles have already done that for us in the New Testament.

I wanted to clarify my view on the Ten Commandments as I made one unclear comment in the initial post. Also, it should be obvious to most people here that I don't think the Sabbath command applies and is a shadow or type of Jesus, so the idea of defining sin as breaking the Ten Commandments isn't very precise nor is it exhaustive (Colossians 2:16-17, Matthew 11:28-30).

I am forced to qualify my remarks due to some hyperactive Sabbathkeepers here

 

[MattforJesus]

We cannot receive sinless perfection on earth,for we still have a war between good and evil,and we are tempted to sin,and we can sin is we desire to sin.

As long as that is going on in our present body we cannot receive sinless perfection,for sinless perfection is not only incapable of sinning,but it does not even get tempted to sin,such as the case of God where He said He does not sin,and cannot be tempted to sin.

Jesus Christ is the only human that was tempted to sin,but did not sin because He was always led of the Spirit.

Which if a person hates sin,and does not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,and show the ways of the Spirit,and not the flesh,and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able,and will give them a way to escape the temptation so they can bear it.

So there is no excuse why a person cannot abstain from sin.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,for even the world can abstain from sin as they choose what sins they like,and do not like,and nobody forces us to sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice and can choose the good.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I do not believe that this means that it is impossible for a person to abstain from sin,for then it would contradict that a Spirit led life will abstain from sin,for as long as that person wants the Spirit to lead them.

There is no time limit of the Spirit leading a person in which there is no ways of the flesh there,and it depends on whether we want to sin or not.If we do not want to sin then by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,and people only sin because they want to sin,and then some have an excuse for their sin.

If we say we have no sin appears to be saying people that believe they do not have to repent of their sins,for they were not a bad person,but generally cared for people,and said I am a good person,and believe in God,and that is enough,and might repent of a few,but cannot believe that some sins they do God would be against.

They do not view themselves as being a bad person,so they do not repent,and do not confess Christ,and do it the Bible way,although they believe in God,or they do not want to face up to that sin.

If a person that claims Christ says they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,then are they saying they have no sin seeing they say it has no bearing on their salvation,and relationship with God if they sin.

But it cannot mean they a person cannot abstain from sin,for then it would contradict the Bible that says a Spirit led life will not sin.

You do remember Jesus don't you,and He was led of the Spirit,and there you have it,for that is how a person that is led of the Spirit would behave,no sin,and that same power is available to us to act like Christ.

So there is no excuse why we cannot abstain from sin.

But there is no sinless perfection while in the flesh,and even if a person abstained from sin for the rest of their life there still is no sinless perfection until we are out of this fleshy body,and there is no war between good and evil.

Paul said there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh,and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other,so even if we do abstain from sin by the Spirit,the sin still resides in the body.

But you do not have to allow it to rear up its ugly head,for that choice is up to you,not saying we cannot abstain from sin throwing in the towel,and sinning on purpose for you think you cannot beat it.

And that is the thing that they are sinning on purpose,and then saying we cannot abstain from sin,but they are sinning on purpose,which the Bible says if they sin intentionally after they know that God hates sin,and holds unto that sin,then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away for God will not take away something they hold unto.

They sin on purpose,and nobody forced them to sin,and the option to deny sin,and do good is available to them if they want it,and then they say they cannot abstain from sin,but they sin on purpose,and sin intentionally,and premeditated sin,and sin deliberately,and then say they cannot abstain from sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Always interesting to see those who claim to live by the law admit that they do sin occasionally, while claiming at the same time of others who sin, that those others are slaves to sin. They live by a double standard, acting as if we cannot see it.

Exactly.......

 

[Hizikyah]

Always interesting to see those who claim to live by the law admit that they do sin occasionally, while claiming at the same time of others who sin, that those others are slaves to sin. They live by a double standard, acting as if we cannot see it.

Does trhis apply to everyone who believe His righteous Law is valid? or is that a blanket statement?

 

[Zmouth]

Before I start, I want others to be aware that I believe

Can you tell us if "I" trembles?

While it appears that you believe in one God, it is also written that the devils believe also in one God, so I wouldn't want to assume that you would or would not tremble upon hearing the word of the LORD. But if you would rather not provide a response then please do not feel obligated to answer the question but free to do so if you can.

Since it would be my pleasure to sanctify my LORD by answering your question with the hope in me of being freed from sin and being without excuse to doing that which perfects me before my LORD and in such I will not respond to your judgments of sinners as you expressed in your following quote.

either 1) mentally ill; some individuals suffering from mental illness have religious delusions 2) poorly educated on sin or 3) self-righteous or blind concerning their own nature..and that's not surprising because Jeremiah 17:9-10 reveals that the fallen nature deceives us as to our true nature...this requires a revelation of God to show us our fallen nature.[/QUOTE]

 

[Embankment]

Jesus is the only person who has ever been without sin. Each of us sin daily, hourly and from moment to moment. The commandments of Moses were put in place to show we cannot be sinless. It doesn't matter how much we try. If you clame to living a sinless life you are missing the point and kidding yourself.

 

[loveme1]

GOD guides and Keeps His Children.

You are behaving like a Pharisee of the New Testament.

May all make their house on the Lord’s Testament and believe unto the saving of their souls.

If you are told by the Lord to be perfect like your Father in Heaven believe Him.. simplicity is that we are to Believe... GOD empowers and Keeps us through our Faith in the Messiah... so Hear and Keep His Word.

“Yes my Lord” rather than doubting and unbelieving should be promoted rather than a list to try and snare folks.

Love and encourage good works.. perfecting of the saints... to be worthy to walk in white with the Lord..

Faith is increased when we do the Masters work and count ourselves unworthy servants.. oh then by the Grace of GOD may He count us worthy..

Keep the Faith.

 

[mailmandan]

We have a few on here who claim to be sinless, claim to keep the law and for sure all who admit they fail occasionally and sin for sure push a do as you please lifestyle because we believe in eternal security.............

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

 

[mailmandan]

Hahahhahha and a few others as well! SOME still here as well....

Prior to getting banned, PJW was a major proponent of sinless perfection.

Sinless perfection is the result of being born again.
I highly recommend it.

He was also a pain in the neck!

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146296-not-works-2189.html#post3336134

 

[Adstar]

Before I start, I want others to be aware that I believe that all in Christ should be seeking holiness. If anyone claims otherwise about me, they are a liar. God is conforming the believer to the image of his Son. I do not deny that and if anyone is claiming it, they are a liar and showing themselves to be sinners.

I think some believe they are sinless because they accept a limited definition of sin. If they define sin as merely breaking the Ten Commandments in the letter, that's an inadequate definition of sin. Scripture mentions tons of commands for New Covenant believers. Claiming that the Ten Commandments defines sin exhaustively is a false understanding of sin..in fact, I believe the proper definition of sin is falling short of the glory of God, as Christ reflected, rather than based on the Ten Commandments (see Romans 3:23, 6:23). I John 5:17 also lists "all wrongdoing" as sin..and the Holy Spirit-led person is able to discern acts that are wrong, whether they are on a list or not.

I think many sinless perfectionists are either 1) mentally ill; some individuals suffering from mental illness have religious delusions 2) poorly educated on sin or 3) self-righteous or blind concerning their own nature..and that's not surprising because Jeremiah 17:9-10 reveals that the fallen nature deceives us as to our true nature...this requires a revelation of God to show us our fallen nature.

I remember my pastor telling me I was self-righteous, and encouraging me to ask God to reveal my sinful nature to me. I didn't see my self-righteousness, but I followed my pastor's advice, and within a few weeks God showed me my sinful nature. I was able at that time to place my faith in Jesus.

I'm going to present a list of things the Scripture describes as sin. Those who are claiming to be sinless, do you ever fail to do things you shouldn't do (sins of omission), and/or do you still commit some sins (sins of commission)?

I am borrowing this list from The Complete Bible Answer Book by Hank Hanegraaff, with a bit of modification.

SINS OF OMISSION

Failing to believe in Jesus Christ (John 3:16-18, 6:29, 1 John 5:12)

Failing to love God (Deut 6:4, Mark 12:30)

Failing to love your neighbor as yourself (Mark 12:31)

Failing to trust God (Proverbs 3:5, Isaiah 26:4)

Failing to worship God (Deuteronomy 6:13)

Failing to honor God (Proverbs 3:9, John 5:23)

Failing to honor the Son (John 5:23)

Failing to honor one's parents (Exodus 20:12)

Failing to give thanks to God in everything (Psalms 105:1, Romans 1:21, 1 Thessalonians 5:18)

Failing to glorify God (Psalm 34:3, Romans 1:21)

Failing to fear the Lord (Deutoronomy 6:13, Proverbs 3:7)

Failing to do the good one knows one ought to do (James 4:17)

Failing to test new teaching by Scripture (1 Thessalonians 5:21, Acts 17:11)

Failing to discern and guard against false teachers and prophets (Matthew 7:15-20, Acts 20:28-31)

Failing to learn and believe Scripture (Deuteronomy 6:6, 2 Timothy 2:15)

Failing to guard life and doctrine (1 Timothy 4:16)

Failing to repay debts (Romans 13:7)

Failing to care for orphans and widows in distress (James 1:20)

Failing to defend the faith (1 Peter 3:15, Jude 3)

Failing to share the gospel (Matthew 28:19)

Failing to honor others (Romans 12:9)

Failing to keep your fervor (Romans 12:9)

Failing to serve or give (Romans 12:9)

Failing to live at peace (Romans 12:18)

Failing to be clear-minded and alert (1 Peter 5:8)

Failing to rejoice (1 Thessalonians 5:16)

Failing to pray without ceasing (Luke 18:1, Ephesians 6:18, 1 Thessalonians 5:17)

Failing to pray for fellow believers (James 5:16)

Failing to forgive (Matthew 6:15)

SINS OF COMMISSION

Idolatry (Exodus 20:3-6, Romans 1:21-25; 1 John 5:21) - extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone other than God, to the point where this object, habit, person defines one's identity and defines one's purpose in life...examples, substance abuse, food, career goals, family, friends, etcetera...where do you spend your money, time, talent?

Blasphemy (Mark 3:29) - the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

Misusing the Lord's Name (Exodus 20:7)

Covetousness (Exodus 20:17, Romans 1:29, 7:7, 13:9) - having or showing a great, unending desire to possess something, typically something belonging to someone else

Wrong teaching (Matthew 23:15, Galatians 1:8, James 3:1)

Insincere love (Romans 12:9)

Causing someone else to sin (Mark 9:42)

Sexual impurity (Matthew 5:28, Romans 1:24)

Adultery (Exodus 20:14, Hebrews 13:4)

Homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9)

Selfish ambition (Galatians 5:20)

Fits of rage (Galatians 5:20)

Slave trading (1 Timothy 1:10)

Lying (Exodus 23:1, Romans 13:9, Revelation 21:8)

Hypocrisy (1 Peter 2:1) - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense

Drunkenness (1 Corinthians 6:10)

Stealing (Exodus 20:15, 1 Corinthians 6:10)

Sorcery (Deuteronomy 18:10)

Witchcraft (Deuteronomy 18:10)

Divination (Deuteronomy 18:10) - the practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means.

Interpreting Omens (Deuteronomy 18:10)

Consulting the Dead (Deuteronomy 18:11)

Astrology (Deuteronomy 18:9-13, Isaiah 47:13-14)

Depravity (Romans 1:29) - moral corruption; wickedness.

Envy (Romans 1:29, 1 Peter 2:1)

Deceit (Romans 1:29, 1 Peter 2:1) - concealing or misrepresenting the truth in order to mislead someone

Murder (Romans 1:29)

Strife (Romans 1:29)

Malice (Romans 1:29, 1 Peter 2:1) - the intent or desire to do evil, ill will, toward another

Gossip (Romans 1:29)

Slander (Romans 1:30, 1 Peter 2:1)

Hating God (Romans 1:30)

Insolence (Romans 1:30) - rude or disrespectful behavior

Arrogance (Romans 1:30) - having or revealing an exaggerated sense of self importance or personal abilities

Boastfulness (Romans 1:30)

Inventing Evil (Romans 1:30)

Disobeying parents (Romans 1:30)

Disobeying the governing authorities (Romans 13:1-7)

Worrying (Luke 12:22-32)

And you should add to that list all the evil sin thoughts we think... Sin starts in the mind.. Because even if we look upon a woman to lust we have already committed adultery with her in our hearts.. And to hate another person is to be guilty of murder...

It should be clear to everyone that there is no human being living sinless lives on planet earth.. But time and time again Sinlessness in the flesh preachers come on CC and keep posting their doctrine of sinlessness in the flesh..

 

[lightbearer]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

Those are commonly misunderstood verses my friend.

.... if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we havefellowship one with another , and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleansethus from all sin. 1 John 1:7

All means All. And incidentally we cannot walk in darknessand in light at the same time as verse 6 says.

Verse 8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceiveourselves, and the truth is not in us.

First off the word sin here is a noun in the Greek; a state of being. Not a verb; which would be an action; sinning. We can have sin that has not yet been confessed and cleansed (set apart from us) but at the same time time has not been acted on either. This verse is being said in relation to verse 7. It does not say that we will or have sin until the day we die. Otherwise thestatement," and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" Would be a lie making John a liar; which he is not.


9. If we confess our sins (the noun before it becomes a verb; an action), he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and tocleanse us from all unrighteousness.

All means all.

10. If we say that we HAVE NOT sinned [this is the verb and is in the past tense] , we make him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Sinned here is a verb in the Greek. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD. That is why we need Jesus. Due to the sin that is in our being trying to be an action.

To even further emphasize this point John uses these same two Greek words again in the same letter. Here look:
1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin (verb) a sin (noun) which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
(Php 3:12-14 KJV)

 

[mailmandan]

Those are commonly misunderstood verses my friend.

Those are commonly misunderstood by those who teach sinless perfection.

.... if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we havefellowship one with another , and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleansethus from all sin. 1 John 1:7

All means All. And incidentally we cannot walk in darknessand in light at the same time as verse 6 says.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness" and "hates his brother" is connected with "children of the devil."

Verse 8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceiveourselves, and the truth is not in us.

First off the word sin here is a noun in the Greek; a state of being. Not a verb; which would be an action; sinning. We can have sin that has not yet been confessed and cleansed (set apart from us) but at the same time time has not been acted on either. This verse is being said in relation to verse 7. It does not say that we will or have sin until the day we die. Otherwise thestatement," and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" Would be a lie making John a liar; which he is not.

In verse 8, "If we say we have no sin" is in the present tense. The blood of Christ cleanses us (believers) from all sin, but that does not mean that believers never sin at all (present tense) or will never sin again.

9. If we confess our sins (the noun before it becomes a verb; an action), he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and tocleanse us from all unrighteousness.

All means all.

Do you believe that John is focusing on confessing every single sin that we commit as we commit them as an "additional requirement" to remain cleansed? Or do you believe that John has in mind here a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness? Notice that verse 8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Verse 10 says, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." IN CONTRAST TO - if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we must confess each sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to remain cleansed and if we forget a sin we are toast!

10. If we say that we HAVE NOT sinned [this is the verb and is in the past tense] , we make him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Sinned here is a verb in the Greek. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD. That is why we need Jesus. Due to the sin that is in our being trying to be an action.

If we say that we have no sin (present tense) or that we have not sinned (past tense) we deceive ourselves/make Him a liar and the truth/His word is not in us.

To even further emphasize this point John uses these same two Greek words again in the same letter. Here look:
1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin (verb) a sin (noun) which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context - 1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
(Php 3:12-14 KJV)

Even the apostle Paul did not claim to be perfect.