Some words by Spurgeon;

[Magenta]

If what they say were true the Greek Orthodox Church would be the best of all churches.

Good morning, Marcelo (Well, it is morning here ) We know it is the Holy Spirit of God Who leads us into understanding, not whether we can read a certain language. I studied the Bible for a time with a group of people that had as its "head" an ordained minister who could read Greek, and Hebrew. They classified them self as an agnostic, denied the Deity of Christ, pooh-pooed the gospel of John, belittled what they called "the theology of Paul," did not believe that Jesus was sinless​, and claimed Christ did not die to take away the sins of the world. Obviously, understanding Greek did nothing positive to enable or enhance their understanding of Scriptures.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Learned theologians of our day may know Hebrew, may know Greek, may know Spurgeon, and may know Calvin, but if they don’t know Holy Spirit and His love they don’t know God. Having an issue with what she’s saying is different to having an issue with her. I appreciate you are dividing those two things, Angela.

In my opinion JM’s not on trial. She doesn’t need to know Hebrew or Greek to know God. I would show Scriptures that say Holy Spirit is our Teacher and God will teach His people directly, but I don’t really want to get in an argument about who’s context is correct. But on the topic of context, I’ve noticed the NT writers sometimes took OT Scriptures out of context to prove their points. It appears the Spirit of God can do what He wants with His Book. Even when the theologians of His day didn’t agree. They were so confident in their theology they attacked and killed the One they professed to know. Let’s not let the traditions of theology speak louder to us than the Spirit of our Living God.

I agree with the above somewhat. where I do not agree, is as follows

1. when I have responded to some really off the wall posts from Joseph Prince (not responding to JM herself but keeping in mind she was the op) the response has almost always been, from her, that I am attacking her personally. A good many times I have stated that I am not doing so, but exposing the twisting of scripture done by Prince.

if someone posts in a public forum that is called a DISCUSSION forum, then, logically, experientially and employing common sense, they should realize that it will be discussed and in ANY forum disagreed with. I have more than enough experience with Christian forums going back over 10 years to say this and JM has more than enough experience right HERE to KNOW this

I find the 'you are attacking me' line to be a defense for being unable to support, from a person's OWN knowledge, the idea or theory or whatever you want to call it, of their op.

an attack, is an attack on the person, such as name calling, saying they are stupid, not a Christian etc etc. however we will consistently hear from a few people here on CC that they are 'being attacked' when they either do not like what a person says, or as I already stated, CANNOT answer the responder with their own Biblical knowledge.

the other weak arguement, is to state to the person they wish would just 'go away because you make me uncomfortable', is to tell that person to ignore them, stop responding or go to another thread

none of these fly with me and I wish others would take note of the above and actually I am sure some have

this whine whine whine in a public forum when one posts and receives negative feedback is absurd

having said all that, the ONLY time I would concede is if a poster is following another poster around and just generally harassing them. however, if someone consistently posts things they ABSOLUTELY KNOW WITH THE CERTAINLY OF MULTIPLE PAST EXPERIENCES, that others will negate the op, it seems to me they would have 2 options. Either stop posting themselves regarding the topic that irritates others so much OR make themselves available to be able to answer in some form of personal response that indicates they actually KNOW what they are talking about and not just copy/pasting because someone else told them it was good or it appeals to them without them actually understanding or knowing why


2. No one is on trial here; please read the above for a better perspective on the dodge and deny tactics being used in a public forum by ANYONE who believes they alone may have the right to post without anyone who disagrees responding

sure...point out the personal comments with regards to JM studying the Bible properly...and understand that this back and forth has been going on for months now and by now, some people are tired of her personal rebuffs and less then generous in their responses to her with her telling them to just ignore her or go on another thread

I have 0 expectations she will agree but the fact remains this is not her public posting place

with regards to the Holy Spirit being our teacher...far too many people take that to mean we do not need any input from anyone else

not true. we do. God does gift some with teaching by His Spirit...people who consistently take out of context and twist His word are not among them no matter how big their church is, no matter how much money that have, no matter how good they make it sound, no matter how many amens people give and even no matter the amount of goosebump inducing experiences occur. NONE of those things are a checklist for something being of God or not. NONE.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In my opinion JM’s not on trial. She doesn’t need to know Hebrew or Greek to know God.

True enough. But she (and all Christians) need to know the difference between truth and error. Since several have pointed out the gross errors of Joseph Prince and other false teachers whom she admires (idolizes?) that should have been enough to stop posting stuff from JP and simply expressing herself. The fact that she continues to post (promote) his nonsense indicates that JM is not willing to reject error in the face of truth. That is a serious matter.

 

[joaniemarie]

This was posted on another thread but it applies here too about different interpretations and how each Christian goes about sharing the truth they are learning when we study the Bible. Repentance as well as healing and many other topics are seen differently by different born again believers. This is a fact many still need to accept. We all do not see every verse in the Bible the same.


There are different ideas of what the definition of "Word Of Faith" means. I do not think all who believe in healing in the Atonement are the same Word of Faith believers. Just like Baptists and other Christian denominations there are many I do not agree with and many I do agree with.

But this is not about me as some here continually try to put the focus., it's about the truth and we each should seek to put it out there as we have been taught and assured by the Holy Spirit and the Bible.

As far as healing., we have touched on it here in the posts before this one. But have not focused on that topic exclusively. I believe just as we each have been given power and love and a sound mind and many other wonderful things at the time of our salvation., (sozo) we are called to work out by faith what Christ has worked in us. We will be continually working out the sound mind we have been given but we are not yet perfectly functioning at all times in a sound mind. Our old habits get in the way., our old thinking still needs to be dismantled and in it's place., the mind of Christ.

Working "out" our salvation is not working for it but working "from" it. We do this with determination and seriousness of mind not trusting in ourselves and what we think.,but in Jesus. We have this treasure in earthen vessels.

Phil.2:12

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, [SUP][a][/SUP]with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ).


Healing is another one of those things we work out by faith. 2 Tim.1:7

For God did not give us a spirit of timidity (of cowardice, of craven and cringing and fawning fear), but [He has given us a spirit] of power and of love and of calm and well-balanced mind and discipline andself-control.

We each have been called.,we each have the Holy Spirit in us and He leads us each into all truth as we hear the Word and submit (individually) to the truth and grow in faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.


[SUP]6 [/SUP]That is why I would remind you to stir up (rekindle the embers of, fan the flame of, and keep burning) the [gracious] gift of God, [the inner fire] that is in you by means of the laying on of my hands [[SUP][b][/SUP]with those of the elders at your ordination].
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]For God did not give us a spirit of timidity (of cowardice, of craven and cringing and fawning fear), but [He has given us a spirit] of power and of love and of calm and well-balanced mind and discipline andself-control.
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]Do not blush or be ashamed then, to testify to and for our Lord, nor of me, a prisoner for His sake, but [[SUP][c][/SUP]with me] take your share of the suffering [to which the preaching] of the Gospel [may expose you, and do it] in the power of God.
[SUP]
9 [/SUP][For it is He] Who delivered and saved us and called us with a calling in itself holy and leading to holiness [to a life of consecration, a vocation of holiness]; [He did it] not because of anything of merit that we have done, but because of and to further His own purpose and grace (unmerited favor) which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began [eternal ages ago].

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes and the Jewish leaders should have recognized Jesus when He came, they had the scriptures.

If what they say were true the Greek Orthodox Church would be the best of all churches.

 

[Depleted]

In light of all that has been said here about interpretation and context., I'm extremely thankful we each have the Holy Spirit who opens the many different meanings of the Word to us and shows us precious doctrines and teachings no matter what our educational backrounds.

Those who seek Him will for sure find Him. Jesus told us that He would give us His Spirit and He would teach us and lead us into all truth. Thank You Jesus for giving us all we need pertaining to life and Godliness.

John 16:13

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future].

And it is then that we are able to worship God in Spirit and in truth. We would not have that promise if we all did not have access to Him. And we do because He is in us and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise John 4:24-26

[SUP]23 [/SUP]A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

I really would like to know what you mean by you like reading Spurgeon too. I was honest about me and Calvin, so how about you share about you and Spurgeon?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Good morning, Marcelo (Well, it is morning here ) We know it is the Holy Spirit of God Who leads us into understanding, not whether we can read a certain language. I studied the Bible for a time with a group of people that had as its "head" an ordained minister who could read Greek, and Hebrew. They classified them self as an agnostic, denied the Deity of Christ, pooh-pooed the gospel of John, belittled what they called "the theology of Paul," did not believe that Jesus was sinless​, and claimed Christ did not die to take away the sins of the world. Obviously, understanding Greek did nothing positive to enable or enhance their understanding of Scriptures.

Hi Magenta...Wish I had read this post as I have just made a thread about learning Greek and Hebrew, and found my answer here lol...xox...

 

[Angela53510]

And then there is me! Who does read and understand Greek, and I can follow Hebrew, with the help of a lexicon.

There is just so much to learn when you read the Greek. I'm following "Daily Dose of Greek" by Rob Plummer. He goes through each verse in the NT, reads, it parses it, and then talks about what it means to us as Christians. This man is certainly led by the Spirit. He always gives little stories of people being led by the Spirit. For example, a man at his seminary, felt called by God to open a coffee house and minister to people. He called it "Sunergos" which means "fellow workers." (This from Philemon 24) He talked about this man's ministry and love of God. And how his Greek, even as a coffee shop owner was still important to him.

Greek sings the words of God to me! That's what I would call it. But, I do not think everyone needs to learn Greek or Hebrew. You need both a calling and a facility with languages. My husband has no clue why I continue to study these languages. He could not even learn the obligatory French in school. I think he dropped out. So, I GET IT, if you can't, won't or never considering learning Greek.

Because, no, we don't need it, to walk with God. We just need a good translation, and to read it, and to seek God on our knees, and to obey and serve him.

But, I come here and get this song and dance, which doesn't say, "Oh, you read Greek, not my thing!" Great, no problem! But instead, I get "No one needs Greek," as above. Or worse, "If you spend all your time reading the Bible in Greek and Hebrew, you must not be filled with the Holy Spirit!" Say what???!!

Since when are knowing the original languages and using them, and being filled with the Holy Spirit mutually exclusive??

In fact, it was the Holy Spirit who led me on this very personal and amazing journey of studying the Bible not just in the original languages, but in English, my heart language. It is the Holy Spirit that leads and guides me every day. It is the Holy Spirit who ministers to me when the pain gets bad. It is the Holy Spirit in my heart, who leads me to serve God and others.

There is such an anti-intellectual attitude here, and anti-biblical attitude in this forum, it astounds me, at times. Because, instead of realizing that some are called as "shepherds, teachers, etc" and that God instructs us ALL to study to show ourselves approved, and yet, studying and knowing the Bible, (whether self taught or in Bible school or seminary) is just looked upon as people who are not walking with God, WHEN IT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE!

God called me twice to go to seminary. The first time I did not. It didn't fit in with my plans, my family, my career. Give me another 10 years, and that call again on my heart, the Holy Spirit leading me step by step, and I obeyed God.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is always leading and guiding us, for the purpose of service. NOT for a bunch of great feelings, meetings, or (false) revelations that are out of context, and really not from God. God leads us to study, and for some of us, that is not so we become apostate, but so that we know and serve God, in obedience, as he calls us.

" Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately." 2 Tim. 2:15 NET.

So, in context, this was to Timothy. Was Timothy apostate for studying, and teaching the Word correctly? Well, I think everyone would say "Timothy was told by God to do this!" And not only that, that Paul was commending him for doing it!

Yet, when God tells someone today to study the original languages, hermeneutics, suddenly, that means we are apostate?? Why, because some liberal professor walked away from God, or never knew God?

This forum is just so full of heresies, and so many issues of false doctrine, and yet, anyone who has studied to be approved is called "apostate" and that their studies have no validity? Because they have truly been called by God, and God has led them, to deep studies, and they are trying to share that truth? (Not talking just about myself, but the many people who have studied the Bible and make it a priority!) And, the final insult, that they are NOT lead by the Holy Spirit? Because they really study the Bible, instead of relying on youtube videos with liars, deceivers and false teachers?

I really can't believe there is such an abysmal level of ignorance to how to study the Word of God, and to live it. And you live it by knowing it, and following the lead of the Holy Spirit. All this jumping around in the aisles at meetings, craziness is NOT the Holy Spirit, but a lie from the devil!

I'm done! Need to walk away for a while.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children." Hosea 4:6 NKJV

 

[Marcelo]

Good morning, Marcelo (Well, it is morning here ) We know it is the Holy Spirit of God Who leads us into understanding, not whether we can read a certain language. I studied the Bible for a time with a group of people that had as its "head" an ordained minister who could read Greek, and Hebrew. They classified them self as an agnostic, denied the Deity of Christ, pooh-pooed the gospel of John, belittled what they called "the theology of Paul," did not believe that Jesus was sinless​, and claimed Christ did not die to take away the sins of the world. Obviously, understanding Greek did nothing positive to enable or enhance their understanding of Scriptures.

Hi, Magenta, I used the Greek Orthodox Church as an example because three decades ago I went to one of their churches to get information about the Greek language. The priest was a very nice person -- he showed me the Bible used in their services and answered all my questions. They don't have translation problems in the New Testament because they use the (almost) original text (they don't use modern Greek Bibles).

While there I took notice of their somewhat idolatrous habits and then came up with the thought: "if the knowledge of Greek had any spiritual benefit they would be better off as a Christian community".

 

[wattie]

It also makes salvation an ongoing process of repentance - sin, repentance - sin, repentance - sin ....where does Jesus fit in, in this ongoing cycle...good point.

Yeah... repentance at salvation is the 'change of mind, heart, ' not an on going process of turning from sin.

Romans 10 and John 3:16 are some primary scriptures

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen Wattie!!

Yeah... repentance at salvation is the 'change of mind, heart, ' not an on going process of turning from sin.

Romans 10 and John 3:16 are some primary scriptures

 

[joaniemarie]

Was just thinking again about the Biblical meaning of repentance and some of the things people think it means that it doesn't mean. . Judas was very sorry and regretful and his kind of repentance was not towards God but towards his own ideas of what repentance means and trying to remedy it himself.

[FONT=&quot]"Repentance towards God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" Is true repentance.[/FONT]

Judas got into the act of human sorrow that looks back again to self and finds no hope. Even after he threw the money away that he got from the religious leaders for betraying Jesus., Judas saw only doom.,regret and hopelessness. So Judas went and hung himself in all his sorrow and regret and what some would call "repentance". The kind of repentance that cries.,mourns., hates self, hates the sin. But Judas didn't look to Jesus who is the answer, the remedy for all sin and shame and regret and forgiveness. Judas instead killed himself., and actually denied Jesus. Acts.20:21

[SUP]20 [/SUP]how I shrank not from declaring unto you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly, and from house to house, [SUP]21 [/SUP]testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus [SUP][a][/SUP]Christ.

 

[joaniemarie]

[/QUOTE]




I agree with Spurgeon about this kind of repentance is not repentance towards God. Repent is to change your mind about sin, and Christ and all the great things of God.

 

[joaniemarie]

Thought this was worth re posting in light of all the different kinds of repentance-s going on. Do we cry or do we change our minds and agree with God? I say we change our minds and agree with God. Basically let the Holy Spirit have reign over our thoughts each day so He can change our minds and "we" can be in agreement with Him. Amen!

Posted this 2 days ago after bringing back this older thread started about Spurgeon. looking to discuss the word repentance again in light of what it really means vs what many today think it means.

 

[Depleted]

Hi Magenta...Wish I had read this post as I have just made a thread about learning Greek and Hebrew, and found my answer here lol...xox...

I do not speak or read Greek. It really is all Greek to me. I just don't have that gene (or whatever it is) to understand linguistics enough to learn another language., and really wish I did because I love communications.

That said, no. You really didn't get a good answer here. What you got was someone sugar-coating bile at someone else for a perceived hurt long ago. It's bitterness aimed at another person. (It's not even about that group of people or about this thread.) It's just camouflaged enough that it seems innocent to anyone who doesn't know what's going on.

Which, with the turnover rate on this site, is most people.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

JM, you forgot to post the link to where you got this quote:

https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/spurgeon_repentance.jpg?w=620

Yep, Escape to Reality. Just in case anyone might have erroneously thought that JM was converting to Calvinism, when she was just parroting her second favorite site, Escape to Reality, yet another hypergrace site.

JoanieMarie, I see she doesn't just hate me! Does Angela53510 ever say what she believes, or just cast stones for fun?

 

[gerty]

Still trying to promote the false doctrines of Joseph Prince et. al. Spurgeon said that repentance is to change your mind about sin... So tell us how an evildoer changes his mind about his evil deeds? And tell us what the apostle John was teaching Christians about sin in their lives in his first epistle? Or do you simply cherry-pick Scripture and distort things which do not suit?

it would be interesting to hear what you think apostle John was teaching about sin. Spurgeon was talking about repentance, i dont get your remark about cherry picking.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

Was just thinking again about the Biblical meaning of repentance and some of the things people think it means that it doesn't mean. . Judas was very sorry and regretful and his kind of repentance was not towards God but towards his own ideas of what repentance means and trying to remedy it himself.

"Repentance towards God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" Is true repentance.

Judas got into the act of human sorrow that looks back again to self and finds no hope. Even after he threw the money away that he got from the religious leaders for betraying Jesus., Judas saw only doom.,regret and hopelessness. So Judas went and hung himself in all his sorrow and regret and what some would call "repentance". The kind of repentance that cries.,mourns., hates self, hates the sin. But Judas didn't look to Jesus who is the answer, the remedy for all sin and shame and regret and forgiveness. Judas instead killed himself., and actually denied Jesus. Acts.20:21

[SUP]20 [/SUP]how I shrank not from declaring unto you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly, and from house to house, [SUP]21 [/SUP]testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus [SUP][a][/SUP]Christ.

I liked what you said here, and also what Spurgeon said. My brother said once that our sins are a "drop in the ocean," of God's mercy, and he is Russian Orthodox. Despair is a form of rebellion in a way, and Dr. Neil Anderson says in his book, "The Bondage Breaker," that it comes from the condemnation of the night which leads to hopelessness, instead of the conviction of the Holy Spirit, which leads to repentance, like Peter. And unbelief is also a form of rebellion where people don't want to submit to a power greater than ourselves--or even prefer to condemn themselves and take the role of judge, rather than servant.

It's crazy but even depression has got to be some form of resisting the light--
A chatter named NickT said it very well this evening on the same subject-- we all want to earn our salvation.
I think God said: "the buck stops here!" even the Beatles had it figured out: "money can't buy me love..."

thank-you for your friendly "welcoming the stranger" in Christian chat! (Matt. 25--)

 

[joaniemarie]

I liked what you said here, and also what Spurgeon said. My brother said once that our sins are a "drop in the ocean," of God's mercy, and he is Russian Orthodox. Despair is a form of rebellion in a way, and Dr. Neil Anderson says in his book, "The Bondage Breaker," that it comes from the condemnation of the night which leads to hopelessness, instead of the conviction of the Holy Spirit, which leads to repentance, like Peter. And unbelief is also a form of rebellion where people don't want to submit to a power greater than ourselves--or even prefer to condemn themselves and take the role of judge, rather than servant.

It's crazy but even depression has got to be some form of resisting the light--
A chatter named NickT said it very well this evening on the same subject-- we all want to earn our salvation.
I think God said: "the buck stops here!" even the Beatles had it figured out: "money can't buy me love..."

thank-you for your friendly "welcoming the stranger" in Christian chat! (Matt. 25--)[/QUOTE


HI Herald., I like what you said here too. I read some of Neil Anderson's books years ago. Used to get his devotionals. Also remember a book by Dr.David Seamans about our minds and how the enemy seeks to devour us and uses condemnation all the time and tricks us into thinking it's the Holy Spirit condemning us.

Yes, I agree, despair and depression is actually a form of rebellion because it's refusing to believe God loves us 100% in Christ. It takes faith to believe the truth that God really loves us at all times. Believing is looking away from our own ideas and thoughts of condemnation and instead having our minds dare to believe something so good as God loves us because of Jesus. A christian I heard preaching once said people think it's the too good to be true good news. But we know it's really TRUE!! Blessings Herald.

 

[Speak2Me]

Here is the whole quote, from “All of Grace.” I always get suspicious when I see an ellipsis in the middle of a quote!

“I hear another man cry, “Oh, sir my want of strength lies mainly in this, that I cannot repent sufficiently!” A curious idea men have of what repentance is! Many fancy that so many tears are to be shed, and so many groans are to be heaved, and so much despair is to be endured. Whence comes this unreasonable notion? Unbelief and despair are sins, and therefore I do not see how they can be constituent elements of acceptable repentance; yet there are many who regard them as necessary parts of true Christian experience. They are in great error. Still, I know what they mean, for in the days of my darkness I used to feel in the same way. I desired to repent, but I thought that I could not do it, and yet all the while I was repenting. Odd as it may sound, I felt that I could not feel. I used to get into a corner and weep, because I could not weep; and I fell into bitter sorrow because I could not sorrow for sin. What a jumble it all is when in our unbelieving state we begin to judge our own condition! It is like a blind man looking at his own eyes. My heart was melted within me for fear, because I thought that my heart was as hard as an adamant stone. My heart was broken to think that it would not break. Now I can see that I was exhibiting the very thing which I thought I did not possess; but then I knew not where I was. Remember that the man who truly repents is never satisfied with his own repentance. We can no more repent perfectly than we can live perfectly. However pure our tears, there will always be some dirt in them: there will be something to be repented of even in our best repentance. But listen! To repent is to change your mind about sin, and Christ, and all the great things of God. There is sorrow implied in this; but the main point is the turning of the heart from sin to Christ. If there be this turning, you have the essence of true repentance, even though no alarm and no despair should ever have cast their shadow upon your mind.“

Please note the bolded part is the ellipsis in Escape to Reality’s quote. That is more words cut, than posted.

The part I like best is this:

“The man who truly repents is neve satisfied with his own repentance. We can no more repent perfectly that we can live perfectly.”

A far cry from just repenting once, as JP and Escape to Reality posit.

It truly bothers me when the great preachers are misquoted and used for to support bad doctrine. I remember Escape to Reality doing a partial quote of Spurgeon another time. So I was on the alert this time! Nice try, JM, but no cigar!

Thought I ought to repost this, & bring it back to the front.

Gook expose', Angela!