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Thread: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

  1. #21
    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    A serpent lie. What Hebrews warned about. Going back to law. Paul received the revelation of grace.
    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

  2. #22
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    I would be interested to know who are those who accuse Paul of being false and why.
    The most ardent Pharisee who persecute Christians and then met Jesus.

    Was trusted by those who at first thought he was playing a con.

    Then relesed him into ministry.
    That ministry to the gentiles.
    Even Peter says I don't get half the stuff he says, but it's from God to the gentiles.

    Maybe those who consider him false have an agenda.

    Hmm what could that be?
    To discredit almost half of the New Testament and covenant of Grace which superceeded Law!

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    Senior Member homwardbound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    I know, the OP's ?, yet I feel strongly about posting the truth what happened with Saul to become Paul and be freed from the Law in its literal sense, to get the Law of Liberty that is not fathomable to any first-born flesh under the similitude of the First Adam. Thank you for reading if so deccide to read. Lastly Paul is not our Savior either. Just a messenger

    The Apostle Paul was born out of due time from Father himself in Risen Son for him to go to the Gentiles and tell us of this Love and mercy that is given us and all mankind.
    Now at first, he did not go to the disciples, he went to the Arabian desert for two years, learning new, fro what he had been taught from birth on under Law, he found out he got it wrong.
    For he was serious in doing the Law and did it better than anyone literally ever did. God saw this and put a stop to it, and not by force, by revelation

    So for Paul who was Saul to be an Apostle born out of due time. He had to have the first-hand knowledge of the death and resurrected Christ.
    So here is how I see that took place.

    Stephan was stoned to death by the righteous Pharisees, that think thought themselves righteous doing the Law literally. What Stephan said to them was a death sentence

    Stephan said to them God does not live in buildings, as was thought throughout the first testament.
    Saul gave the permission to stone Stephan to death for saying this. And when Stephan got stoned to death, Saul watched Stephan accept this with Joy.
    Who goes to death in Joy??????????????????????????????????? Soon the road to Damascus, Saul meets Jesus, and hears why does thou persecute me?

    Saul, responds who are you, it is I, Jesus \
    Okay so now one might see He saw Jesus's crucifixion vicariously through Stephan who went to death willingly

    Get it!

    So Now named Paul, he had to learn new, before he could come to you, you, you, you and all the world through the Bible messages written by GFod through him to us to turn to believe and leave works out of it to see new and do new in his done works for you ion risen Son leading in Spirit and Truth


    This is what is not easily understood, it is not any of me, you or anyone else it is of God only. All he asks is for you to believe, receive and then one sees in humility, under Father' maturity

    No flesh and Blood under Law could do the Law, that was born of Adam the First, not one.

    Now, Son, the Christ is the one and only exception, because he was not born of Man. Born of Woman yes, not man.

    So through Son, as sanctified now in being Risen from the dead by Father, that makes The Christ our High Priest forever that will not ever die again.
    That part is done once and for all, this is the message Paul was giving everyone. That it is done in Son whom is Risen where new life is given to do the done work of Son.

    We are Vessels. Vessels like a water glass, are ready, available to be used by its master, whenever its master decides to use it or not.

    So Paul revealed truth out from underneath the literal Law unto the Law of Liberty, the true way it was to be seen when given the Law of commandments.

    So misinterpreted, so deeply as Paul saw this since he was the best in the flesh and blood

    Philippians 3:1-15Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto youYou see you all, it is none of us, it is of God, as in Col 1:21-23 for us to respond to him in belief to receive the new life as revealed in Romans 5:1-10


    Paul was, is nothing but a water glass vessel used by Father to tell us of this love and mercy given us to respond to in thanksgiving and praise to this done work.
    How can one not respond to it is done for you? In Thanksgiving and praise, all sin is taken away as David did before it ever took place
    As in Ps 100:4, 103:12

    Galatians 2:20-21Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    Amazing Grace can be taken for granted and has been for many years. All that this is revealed to, see to not tkae for granted and learn how not to, by Fathewr in Risen Son only.

    If do not see this yet, go ahead under Law and see for yuorself you can't be perfect in trying to be perfect it will not happen. If does then The Christ came here to earth in Flesh and blood in Vain

    And is not Risen so hew does not flow through yuor Veins

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    Senior Member homwardbound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by breno785au View Post
    Because they're deceived.
    Just like all man flesh is from first birth

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    Senior Member Waggles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Paul was always aware that many did not honour him as a true apostle
    and in many of the epistles he presents his credentials as to being a
    chosen apostle directly by Jesus to preach the gospel to the gentiles...

    1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and
    revelations of the Lord.
    2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body,
    I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knows)
    such an one caught up to the third heaven.
    3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell:
    God knows)
    4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words,
    which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
    5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
    2Corinthians 12:
    Paul is of course talking about himself with great modesty.

    Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel
    of God, Romans 1:1
    Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God,
    and Sosthenes our brother, 1Corinthians 1:1
    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour,
    and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; 1Timothy 1:1

    7 After that, he [Jesus] was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
    8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
    9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle,
    because I persecuted the church of God.
    10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon
    me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace
    of God which was with me.
    1Corinthians 15:
    Grandpa and joaniemarie like this.

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    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    To discredit almost half of the New Testament and covenant of Grace which superceeded Law!
    Exactly Holmes.
    May I add my fine fellow the purpose is to bring us back to the law
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    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

  7. #27
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by homwardbound View Post
    Just like all man flesh is from first birth
    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    Exactly Holmes.
    May I add my fine fellow the purpose is to bring us back to the law
    .....so the righteousness of the law can be imputed by faith
    and allow us to stand before God as sons and daughters

  8. #28
    Senior Member homwardbound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    .....so the righteousness of the law can be imputed by faith
    and allow us to stand before God as sons and daughters
    Yes, as is not easily seen since we are first brought up to do work for rewards or else punishment time for you, that has spilled over unto Grace that is given free to appreciate and for to take for granted as many do, unfortunately, I did and am learning not to now

  9. #29
    Senior Member homwardbound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    .....so the righteousness of the law can be imputed by faith
    and allow us to stand before God as sons and daughters
    It is only imputed by Faith, Father does it as he did for Abraham

    Romans 4:17-25Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    17 (as it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb: 20 he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    Amazing for us too, Given and so one who receives does as led to being, easy so easy it is hard to see and one does not enter his rest given thee


    Hebrews 4:9-11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

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    Senior Member breno785au's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    As I have said elsewhere, you can google [insert Christian public figure] exposed/false and you will find something... Doesn't mean they're right.
    Lucy-Pevensie likes this.
    Earth awaken, all creation, open up your eyes again, alive again, for Christ has torn the veil of darkness away!
    Easter - Theocracy

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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    Read up on the Ebionites:

    Ebionites (Greek: Ἐβιωναῖοι Ebionaioi, derived from Hebrew אביונים ebyonim, ebionim, meaning "the poor" or "poor ones"), is a patristic term referring to a Jewish Christian movement that existed during the early centuries of the Christian Era.[1]

    They regarded
    Jesus of Nazareth as a prophet while rejecting his divinity, his virgin birth, [2] and insisted on the necessity of following Jewish law and rites.[3]

    They used only one of the
    Jewish–Christian gospels, the hebrew book of Matthew starting at chapter 3, revered James the brother of Jesus (James the Just), and rejected Paul the Apostle as an apostate from the Law.[4]

    Full text:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites
    ebionites?
    "and most, if not all, statements about them are conjectural."

    Very well possibly miss information.
    Conjecture, i believe, is a nice way of saying false. Like presenting a fictional model or hypothetical argument having no relation to Faith.
    Similar to the nonsense about paul being false.



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    Senior Member Rosemaryx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Everything written in the Bible is there because God has it set that way ...It is His inspired word...Those on the outside looking in will always find fault, because we have someone they don`t, and His beautiful name is Christ Jesus, our LORD and Saviour...All the glory to God \o/...xox...
    PSALM 107:20 He sends His word and heals me and rescues me from the pit and destruction.

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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    Exactly Holmes.
    May I add my fine fellow the purpose is to bring us back to the law

    Which laws, exactly ... all 613 of the OT Laws?

  14. #34
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    If you google Paul false apostle you'll get hundreds of thousands of results. Of course, not all results contain opinions against Paul, but I estimate that at least half of them state that he departed from the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    There are also those who don't go to the extreme of calling Paul a false apostle, but regard him as "not completely reliable".

    Is there any reason for us to think that Paul's authority is questionable?
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Scripture refers to Jesus as the Word of God. Jesus refers to Scripture as the Word of God. Unless we can depend on Scripture as totally reliable, we have nothing to base our faith on. But we can indeed rely on Scripture as totally reliable and can regard ANYTHING that contradicts it as a lie or an error.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  16. #36
    Senior Member Marcelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy-Pevensie View Post
    It's the first I've heard of this.
    The first time I heard of this was 30 years ago -- a friend of mine had doubts about Paul's reliability.

    One evening, after a service, we asked a pastor about the differences between the Gospels and the Pauline letters and he told us that, in case of conflict
    , the teachings of Paul take precedence over those of the Lord Jesus because Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. His explanation sounded weak (or incomplete), but we accepted it.

    It wasn't until some six months ago that I found the full answer to our question: While on earth the Lord Jesus was reinterpreting the Mosaic Law, and after the cross He preached a different way of salvation through the apostle Paul. In other words, Jesus' earthly ministry was under the dispensation of the Law and Paul's ministry was under the dispensation of grace. This is the reason why there are differences between the Lord Jesus and the apostle Paul.

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    Senior Member Lucy-Pevensie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by breno785au View Post
    As I have said elsewhere, you can google [insert Christian public figure] exposed/false and you will find something... Doesn't mean they're right.
    LOL! Google is a dangerous tool in the hands of some people!
    7777pinacled likes this.

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    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy-Pevensie View Post
    LOL! Google is a dangerous tool in the hands of some people!
    It's no so much google, more the internet which allows any nut with an agenda or beef with a wide audience.
    stonesoffire and AuntieAnt like this.

  19. #39
    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Scripture refers to Jesus as the Word of God. Jesus refers to Scripture as the Word of God. Unless we can depend on Scripture as totally reliable, we have nothing to base our faith on. But we can indeed rely on Scripture as totally reliable and can regard ANYTHING that contradicts it as a lie or an error.
    I don't necessarily disagree Brother, but I would add Spirit to the Word that we can rely on. We can read the word with the veil on our understanding yet until conversion. But, Holy Spirit is He who opens it. They work together don't they? Am I being too picky?
    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

  20. #40
    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inquistor View Post
    Which laws, exactly ... all 613 of the OT Laws?
    I think you read this wrong. I did too until dcontroversal answered. Plus I, pretty sure he doesn't believe how it looks.
    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

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