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Thread: Especially For Reformed

  1. #61
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthTalk View Post
    Not to worry Depleted


    Law and Grace
    A Sermon by:Charles Spurgeon
    "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."Romans 5:20.

    here is no point upon which men make greater mistakes than upon the relation which exists between the law and the gospel. Some men put the law instead of the gospel: others put the gospel instead of the law; some modify the law and the gospel, and preach neither law nor gospel: and others entirely abrogate the law, by bringing in the gospel. Many there are who think that the law is the gospel, and who teach that men by good works of benevolence, honesty, righteousness, and sobriety, may be saved. Such men do err.

    On the other hand, many teach that the gospel is a law; that it has certain commands in it, by obedience to which, men are meritoriously saved; such men err from the truth, and understand it not. A certain class maintain that the law and the gospel are mixed, and that partly by observance of the law, and partly by God's grace, men are saved. These men understand not the truth, and are false teachers.

    This morning I shall attempt—God helping me to show you what is the design of the law, and then what is the end of the gospel. The coming of the law is explained in regard to its objects: "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound." Then comes the mission of the gospel: "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."

    And now, lastly, poor sinner, has sin made thee unfit for heaven? Grace shall render thee a fit companion for seraphs and the just made perfect. Thou who art to-day lost and destroyed by sin, shalt one day find thyself with a crown upon thy head, and a golden harp in thine hand, exalted to the throne of the Most High. Think, O drunkard, if thou repentest, there is a crown laid up for thee in heaven. Ye guiltiest, most lost and depraved, are ye condemned in your conscience by the law?

    Then I invite you, in my Master's name, to accept pardon through his blood. He suffered in your stead, he has atoned for your guilt and you are acquitted. Thou art an object of his eternal affection, the law is but a schoolmaster, to bring thee to Christ. Cast thyself on him. Fall into the arms of saving grace. No works are required, no fitness, no righteousness, no doings. Ye are complete in him who said, "It is finished."

    "Grace outdoes sin, for it lifts us higher than the place from which we fell."

    Attribute: click here for the full sermon; Law and Grace
    Good stuff, thanks for sharing brother.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon

  2. #62
    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Yes, this is whatAugustine stated in his book "City of God"



    "That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He predestinated to everlasting life, as the most merciful bestower of grace; whilst to those whom He has predestinated to eternal death, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment."

    "The City of God" On the Soul and its Origin


    It may be helpful to go back to the originator of all these teachings, Augustine himself.




    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    You are very limited in your horizons.




    Not so. Many teach that all men have chosen God's judgment and eternal damnation, and that God has elected out some to be saved. Had God not elected some no one would be saved.




    Only one view of those who are called 'reformed' (reformed back to the original teaching of Scripture).



    That is your view and erroneous,



    You still stick to the teaching of the dark ages? If not you are reformed.




    Correctly interpreted that is Paul's Gospel.
    Nehemiah6 likes this.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

  3. #63
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    If we understand the original name of that book, The City of God Against the Pagans (Original title‎: ‎De ciuitate Dei contra paganos), we learn the book was in response to allegations that Christianity brought about the decline of Rome, and we just might read it from a different perspective.
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    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthTalk View Post
    Not to worry Depleted


    Law and Grace
    A Sermon by:Charles Spurgeon
    "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."Romans 5:20.

    here is no point upon which men make greater mistakes than upon the relation which exists between the law and the gospel. Some men put the law instead of the gospel: others put the gospel instead of the law; some modify the law and the gospel, and preach neither law nor gospel: and others entirely abrogate the law, by bringing in the gospel. Many there are who think that the law is the gospel, and who teach that men by good works of benevolence, honesty, righteousness, and sobriety, may be saved. Such men do err.

    On the other hand, many teach that the gospel is a law; that it has certain commands in it, by obedience to which, men are meritoriously saved; such men err from the truth, and understand it not. A certain class maintain that the law and the gospel are mixed, and that partly by observance of the law, and partly by God's grace, men are saved. These men understand not the truth, and are false teachers.

    This morning I shall attempt—God helping me to show you what is the design of the law, and then what is the end of the gospel. The coming of the law is explained in regard to its objects: "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound." Then comes the mission of the gospel: "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."

    And now, lastly, poor sinner, has sin made thee unfit for heaven? Grace shall render thee a fit companion for seraphs and the just made perfect. Thou who art to-day lost and destroyed by sin, shalt one day find thyself with a crown upon thy head, and a golden harp in thine hand, exalted to the throne of the Most High. Think, O drunkard, if thou repentest, there is a crown laid up for thee in heaven. Ye guiltiest, most lost and depraved, are ye condemned in your conscience by the law?

    Then I invite you, in my Master's name, to accept pardon through his blood. He suffered in your stead, he has atoned for your guilt and you are acquitted. Thou art an object of his eternal affection, the law is but a schoolmaster, to bring thee to Christ. Cast thyself on him. Fall into the arms of saving grace. No works are required, no fitness, no righteousness, no doings. Ye are complete in him who said, "It is finished."

    "Grace outdoes sin, for it lifts us higher than the place from which we fell."

    Attribute: click here for the full sermon; Law and Grace
    Oh man!

    1. I want to s'plain stuff like Spurgeon does.
    2. I wanted to rep you but spreading is required.

    Definitely a good'n one though.
    Angela53510 and TruthTalk like this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Oh man!

    1. I want to s'plain stuff like Spurgeon does.
    2. I wanted to rep you but spreading is required.

    Definitely a good'n one though.
    Got your back sister. Reps sent
    Blessings
    Bill
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    This is the history of the church.

    Jesus came, lived the perfect life, died for our sins, rose again acceptable as the sacrifice and still lives. That's what was preached. That's what happened in the NT.

    And then Rome got all huffy about this new emerging "cult" called Christians, who refused to worship the one obvious god there was -- The Roman Emperor. So they tried (and were frighteningly effective in how many they did this to) to wipe out the Christians. Annihilate them. Wipe them off the face of the earth, so the Christians hid. Hid in caves, catacombs, grand underground network, but rarely daring to go out into the world, because the world was trying to wipe them out.

    During that time, lots of false gospels got involved -- Gnostic, Montanans, that stupid Gospel of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, so much junk filtered in, as it does today, but Christians could not gather together to agree on doctrines, and edicts, and all the other little doohickeys and whatchamacallits, like we can do today. (And they certainly didn't even get to the point of question if creation started by evolution or Creation back then, so not like we're still not adding to the garbage today.)

    200+ years of that, before one Roman Emperor saw the Light. Constantine. He might have seen the Light too well, since he thought a decree that everyone must be a Christian in his empire was a smooth move. That that would work.

    And then the beliefs were further muted by "popes." And further muted by "infallibility," where crap was added on. Further muted by scam artists and con men selling St. Peter's pinkie bone, and St. Thomas's toenail, and Jesus' cross. Further muted by indulgences, and serfs, and Lords financing their way to heaven through one nonsense or another.

    And during all that time, the real gospel kept on spreading. To people like Constantine, and Augustine, and Athanasius, and on and on. Men who argued for Trinity, and for Jesus being fully God and fully man. And at the darkest of times when Rome was bleeding Europe dry for orgies and debauchery in the Vatican, there came men in Germany. Men like Hus, and Luther, and Calvin. Men through the years that the Lord used to go back to the original gospel. The only gospel. Men who argued over indulgences, while thinking relics was still a good idea. Men who wanted to reform the church, not start a new one. Men who learned, yet again, it is GOD's grace, GOD's abilities, GOD's choice, and GOD's sovereignty, not man's.

    And what do we do about those great men of faith today? "Well, gee whiz, he didn't get this right, so don't listen to him. I know so much better, so listen to me."

    Amazing, considering this, the ones whining the loudest against Reformers are the ones less educated on what Reformed means or what Reformers ever did. Worse yet, they're the ones passing off the new-and-improved gospel that we "can man handle God!"

    I know the difference between ignorance and false teachers. The false teachers have joined in this thread to promote their own manure, because anything at all but God being sovereign!

    (Too subtle?)
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  7. #67
    Senior Member jaybird88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Quote Originally Posted by Beez View Post
    So I was headed for Goodwill this afternoon, to try to find a chest-of-drawers to use to make a new house for all the feral cats who come here to eat. I accidentally made the wrong turn and pulled into the parking lot of an "adult" literature store. Horrified to be there, then horrified if someone who knows me should see me there, I whipped a U-y, to get out of there.

    Okay. My question:

    Should I promise to never ever do that again?
    Did I lose my salvation?
    Should I go to confession?

    Do I have to get saved all over again?
    Do I only need to get rebaptized?
    Should I go back to the old church, because I now know that the Reformed doctrine doesn't work after all?
    I saw a laundromat at the other end of the building. Do people
    really
    think they can get their clothes clean there???

    Seriously, though, folks! I was horrified and went flying out of there as fast as I could.

    So my real question:

    What resources (along with the Bible) would you suggest I use to most quickly get a solid foundation regarding the Reformed doctrines, as I do my best to discard the old beliefs?
    (I am looking extra-biblical resources because they convincingly taught us to read their thoughts into the Scriptures, using the very same Scriptures the Reformed use to teach theirs.)
    I am thinking maybe the creeds, confessions, or catechisms? If so, should these be read in a particular order?
    do you remember the address to this place?
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  8. #68
    Senior Member TruthTalk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    This is the history of the church.

    Jesus came, lived the perfect life, died for our sins, rose again acceptable as the sacrifice and still lives. That's what was preached. That's what happened in the NT.

    And then Rome got all huffy about this new emerging "cult" called Christians, who refused to worship the one obvious god there was -- The Roman Emperor. So they tried (and were frighteningly effective in how many they did this to) to wipe out the Christians. Annihilate them. Wipe them off the face of the earth, so the Christians hid. Hid in caves, catacombs, grand underground network, but rarely daring to go out into the world, because the world was trying to wipe them out.

    During that time, lots of false gospels got involved -- Gnostic, Montanans, that stupid Gospel of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, so much junk filtered in, as it does today, but Christians could not gather together to agree on doctrines, and edicts, and all the other little doohickeys and whatchamacallits, like we can do today. (And they certainly didn't even get to the point of question if creation started by evolution or Creation back then, so not like we're still not adding to the garbage today.)

    200+ years of that, before one Roman Emperor saw the Light. Constantine. He might have seen the Light too well, since he thought a decree that everyone must be a Christian in his empire was a smooth move. That that would work.

    And then the beliefs were further muted by "popes." And further muted by "infallibility," where crap was added on. Further muted by scam artists and con men selling St. Peter's pinkie bone, and St. Thomas's toenail, and Jesus' cross. Further muted by indulgences, and serfs, and Lords financing their way to heaven through one nonsense or another.

    And during all that time, the real gospel kept on spreading. To people like Constantine, and Augustine, and Athanasius, and on and on. Men who argued for Trinity, and for Jesus being fully God and fully man. And at the darkest of times when Rome was bleeding Europe dry for orgies and debauchery in the Vatican, there came men in Germany. Men like Hus, and Luther, and Calvin. Men through the years that the Lord used to go back to the original gospel. The only gospel. Men who argued over indulgences, while thinking relics was still a good idea. Men who wanted to reform the church, not start a new one. Men who learned, yet again, it is GOD's grace, GOD's abilities, GOD's choice, and GOD's sovereignty, not man's.

    And what do we do about those great men of faith today? "Well, gee whiz, he didn't get this right, so don't listen to him. I know so much better, so listen to me."

    Amazing, considering this, the ones whining the loudest against Reformers are the ones less educated on what Reformed means or what Reformers ever did. Worse yet, they're the ones passing off the new-and-improved gospel that we "can man handle God!"

    I know the difference between ignorance and false teachers. The false teachers have joined in this thread to promote their own manure, because anything at all but God being sovereign!

    (Too subtle?)
    Not at all, I love to read about our Church History, carry on...
    Depleted and Laish like this.

  9. #69
    Senior Member pottersclay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    It amazes me that saints think there's a test at the gates of heaven. Jesus confronting the rich young ruler never said he was wrong in following the law and commandments but to answer the question what must he do ...Jesus replied....follow me.
    Mary the mother of Jesus last words printed were.....do all that he says.
    Nicodemus....a man with a solid education in scripture searched out Jesus for it's meaning.
    Peter a fisherman , a zealot at heart, who cursed and even denied Christ was the first to get it right.....tho art the Christ.
    Pilate ...a roman governor totally frustrated thought it right to ask Jesus .....what is truth?
    A thief on a cross beside Jesus. Possible seeing Jesus for the first time .... addressee Jesus as Lord.
    Moses world class Egyptian education sent to summer school by God to learn how to be a Shepard.
    Saul who knew the law forward and backward had a rep of a man with few words. Knocked down to his senses blinded by the light and restored by the enemy..... counted all his knowledge as worthless ...he was so displaced he had to get a new name....Paul.

    Up to you what you should read I guess...and by whom....to define your religion......I'll stick to the Bible.
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  10. #70
    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    .I'll stick to the Bible.
    Yes I agree, although I would add, support with the historical factual context and a non indoctrinated fellowship that can be aware of their own internal biases and stick to the scripture.



    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    It amazes me that saints think there's a test at the gates of heaven. Jesus confronting the rich young ruler never said he was wrong in following the law and commandments but to answer the question what must he do ...Jesus replied....follow me.
    Mary the mother of Jesus last words printed were.....do all that he says.
    Nicodemus....a man with a solid education in scripture searched out Jesus for it's meaning.
    Peter a fisherman , a zealot at heart, who cursed and even denied Christ was the first to get it right.....tho art the Christ.
    Pilate ...a roman governor totally frustrated thought it right to ask Jesus .....what is truth?
    A thief on a cross beside Jesus. Possible seeing Jesus for the first time .... addressee Jesus as Lord.
    Moses world class Egyptian education sent to summer school by God to learn how to be a Shepard.
    Saul who knew the law forward and backward had a rep of a man with few words. Knocked down to his senses blinded by the light and restored by the enemy..... counted all his knowledge as worthless ...he was so displaced he had to get a new name....Paul.

    Up to you what you should read I guess...and by whom....to define your religion......I'll stick to the Bible.
    pottersclay likes this.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    The title "reformed" is actually used wrongly.

    Because it began to be used just for one stream in the protestant reformation. While Solas are generally accepted by the whole protestant reformation.

    "Calvinism" or "protestants of the Dortrecht synod" would be more precise.

    Luterans, Czech brothers, Moravian brothers, Plymouth brothers, Unitas fratrum, arminians etc. are also reformed, but not "reformed".
    Thanks my home church where I first heard God through His word is Plymouth Brothers.

    I like to think of it more as reforming. As Christ is formed in us He must increase as we decrease.
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    Yes, this is whatAugustine stated in his book "City of God".
    But Paul stated that all men have sinned and rejected God by choice and are lost. God has therefore chosen from among them who would be saved.

    God's Choosing and Effectual Calling


    Th 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, whereunto He called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    Eph 1:3-8 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before Him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself,according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved, in Whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence.


    Eph 1:11-12 in Whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of his will; to the end that we should be unto the praise of His glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:


    Rom 8:28-30 And we know that to those that love God all things work together for good, even to those that are called according to His purpose. For those whom He entered into relationship with beforehand (proginosko, NOT prooida) He also foreordained to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.


    2Ti 1:9-10 Who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, but has now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and incorruption to light through the gospel,


    1Pe 1:1-2 tothe elect – according to God the Father entering into relationship with them beforehand, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


    Rom 9:15-16 For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God Who has mercy.


    Rom 9:18-23 So then He has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will He hardens. You will say then to me, 'Why does He still find fault? For who withstands His will?' No but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why did you make me thus? Or has not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel to honour, and another to dishonour? What if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy, which He before prepared unto glory.


    Rom 11.7 Those who were chosen obtained it and the rest were hardened


    Acts 13.48 As many as were ordained to eternal life believed


    think he was before Augustine LOL




    "That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He predestinated to everlasting life, as the most merciful bestower of grace; whilst to those whom He has predestinated to eternal death, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment."
    I am not interested in Augustine's wrong ideas.


    It may be helpful to go back to the originator of all these teachings, Augustine himself.


    All what teachings? I follow Paul.
    Last edited by valiant; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:24 PM.

  13. #73
    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Valiant,

    Foreknowledge is not foreordination

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning [His] promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
    The correct understanding of the terms "elect," "election" or "chosen" starts in the Old Testament where God has elected Israel to be His special people. The individual is part of the corporate elect but is not individually elected to salvation or any special relationship to God.



    Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."



    And with regards to Romans 9:17



    The Apostle Paul uses the story of Pharaoh as an example for Israel. Israel hardened their hearts in their rejection of Jesus Christ; therefore, God has the right to turn to the Gentiles with the gospel of salvation by grace. The Gentiles were not God's people but now they shall be called the "sons of the living God."
    The Gentiles were predestined by God from the foundation of the earth to also eventually become His elect by grace in what the Apostle Paul calls the mystery.



    These verses do not mean that any individual was predestined to be saved. It says He chose us (Gentiles) in Him. Salvation is dependent upon "whoever believes" and not God's determination of one's salvation or lack thereof. God desires all men to be saved.



    Read Acts 13:48 in context …it means simply that as many whose hearts were predisposed to accept the gospel, as many as were willing to call upon the name of the Lord (Rom. 10:13), believed. People are ordained (assigned Strong) to eternal life because they have believed, the order in scripture is always believe and be saved.



    Does God mock sinners by promising them salvation if they believe in Christ and then only enable those who were sovereignly elected to actually receive the gift? I think this is a legitimate question that must be answered to accept this Augustinian interpretation of scripture who by the way did not even read Greek or Hebrew.



    I find it somewhat ironic that “world” as in God so loved the world John 3:16 does not refer to all people/individuals in the world in the Calvinist mindset yet, the elect is defined as the individual not the corporate as it rightly should be.



    Well, I am glad you follow the teachings of Paul, be careful though, I thought I was understanding Paul too, but soon I saw it was through an Augustinian lens, his wrong teachings and ideas have permeated and continue to permeate both the RC and Protestant denominations.

    The difficulty is once you accept this lens it is read into many scripture when in actuality it is not there.












    Quote Originally Posted by valiant View Post
    But Paul stated that all men have sinned and rejected God by choice and are lost. God has therefore chosen from among them who would be saved.

    God's Choosing and Effectual Calling


    Th 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, whereunto He called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    Eph 1:3-8 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before Him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself,according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved, in Whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence.


    Eph 1:11-12 in Whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of his will; to the end that we should be unto the praise of His glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:


    Rom 8:28-30 And we know that to those that love God all things work together for good, even to those that are called according to His purpose. For those whom He entered into relationship with beforehand (proginosko, NOT prooida) He also foreordained to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.


    2Ti 1:9-10 Who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, but has now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and incorruption to light through the gospel,


    1Pe 1:1-2 tothe elect – according to God the Father entering into relationship with them beforehand, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


    Rom 9:15-16 For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God Who has mercy.


    Rom 9:18-23 So then He has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will He hardens. You will say then to me, 'Why does He still find fault? For who withstands His will?' No but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why did you make me thus? Or has not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel to honour, and another to dishonour? What if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy, which He before prepared unto glory.


    Rom 11.7 Those who were chosen obtained it and the rest were hardened


    Acts 13.48 As many as were ordained to eternal life believed


    think he was before Augustine LOL






    I am not interested in Augustine's wrong ideas.





    All what teachings? I follow Paul.
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    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

  14. #74
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Especially For Reformed

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    Well, I am glad you follow the teachings of Paul, be careful though, I thought I was understanding Paul too, but soon I saw it was through an Augustinian lens, his wrong teachings and ideas have permeated and continue to permeate both the RC and Protestant denominations. The difficulty is once you accept this lens it is read into many scripture when in actuality it is not there.
    It is truly amazing how this Catholic bishop from North Africa -- Augustine -- became the idol of both Catholics and Protestants to the point where the plain meaning of Scripture was discarded to fit into his false theological mode.

    Augustine had many admirable qualities and also some sound teachings. But they were mixed up with a lot of false humanistic thinking and improper interpretation of Scripture. And this is true for almost all the Early Church Fathers, whose writings have been elevated to the level of Scripture by the Catholics, the Orthodox, and to some degree the Protestants.

    So the only way to determine the true Gospel is to go back to the Word of God and rightly divide the Word of Truth. God cannot contradict Himself, and God certainly does not mock sinners. Christ tasted death for every man so that all men could be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. But all sinners must obey the Gospel in order to be saved.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:59 AM.
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