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Thread: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    We have absolutely no knowledge that they had not already been "eating from" the Tree of Life for many years.
    Except for the fact that had they eaten from the Tree of Life, they would live forever... as do we, when we partake of the "flesh and blood" of Jesus Christ, the Bread of Life, the Light of this world, the Way, The Truth, the Life of men, the Door, the Gate, the Good Shepherd, the Resurrection and the Life, the True Vine... While it is true that in Him we live and move and have our being, for He sustains all things, people who are alive today, who have not repented and believed the good news, have not eaten of the Tree of Life, yet still they live and breathe in the flesh, just as Adam and Eve did.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    Happy New Year Willie!

    Just FYI, actually we do know that they had not yet eaten from the tree of life at all as can be garnered from the following scripture:

    "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." - Genesis 3:22

    It was so that Adam and Eve would not eat from the tree of life and live forever that God expelled them from the garden and having placed an angel to guard the entrance to Eden.
    Jesus constantly said to abide in Him.... and to take up our cross, daily... and to keep holding to His commandments.... and persevere to the end. Nowhere is anything mentioned about us only having to make a trip to the front of the church and make a one-time statement to clinch the deal for all time. This commitment is something we keep on reaffirming each day.

    The word "ALSO" in the verse you quoted, indicates to me, NOT that they had never tasted the fruit of Life, but that they could ALSO keep on in the Eternal Life they had known previously (since they had not yet begun to die for all the time [possibly many years] that they had lived in the garden), by ALSO continuing to keep on eating their customary diet of the Fruit of Life..... ALONG with now also having the Knowledge of Good & Evil.

    They were told to not eat from only ONE tree. Are we to believe that they assumed the same restriction applied to the Tree of Life, when God had already told them they COULD eat of it and any other tree.... except for the ONE forbidden tree?

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    Senior Member prove-all's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Sin came alive and - I died

    But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, do not eat,
    the day that you do, thou shalt - surely die.
    -

    Romans 7:7-12 “What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means!
    Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not
    have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

    8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me
    all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.

    9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came,
    sin came alive and - I died. The very commandment that promised life
    proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through
    the commandment, deceived me and through it - killed me

    I wonder if it killed Paul in the same way that Adam surely died, on that day.

    -
    13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.14And Adam was not deceived,
    but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing,
    if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

    What the first Adam could not do, the second Adam did.
    Adam could not redeem Eve. Christ redeemed His bride.

    Romans 5:14
    Adam's sin was a similitude of what Christ was going to do.

    7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die:
    yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that,
    while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    9Much more then, being now justified by his blood,
    we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
    much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
    by whom we have now received the atonement.

    12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
    and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    13For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that
    had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
    who is [the figure of him] that was to come.

    -
    15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.

    For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God,
    and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was
    by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

    17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive
    abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

    18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
    even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
    so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound.
    But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
    21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign
    through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
    -
    1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV)
    And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;
    the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    1 Corinthians 15:47 (KJV)
    The first man is of the earth, earthy:
    the second man is the Lord from heaven.
    Last edited by prove-all; January 2nd, 2018 at 06:55 PM.
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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    They were told to not eat from only ONE tree. Are we to believe that they assumed the same restriction applied to the Tree of Life, when God had already told them they COULD eat of it and any other tree.... except for the ONE forbidden tree?
    Why would anyone assume that?

    Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see
    the kingdom of God unless they are born again."


    Why assume they had eaten of the Tree of Life? God barred their way to it so they could not live forever. That pretty clearly indicates that they had not already eaten of it. Otherwise, they would not have died eventually. Do you not see the Tree of Life as a type of Christ? He is the True Vine; by eating of Him, we attain to life ever after... those who do not eat of Christ, remain in the flesh, and will pass into the second death. Unless we are born again of the Spirit of God, we remain in the flesh, which counts for nothing; those who remain in Adam are not granted life ever after. It is fairly basic to the gospel message.


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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Old Testament,Adam created in the image of God,New Testament,Adam made in the figure of Him to come,Christ.The image of God is the image of Christ.God had the plan to come in the future in flesh,Word,and created Adam in that image,an innocent nature in flesh.

    God said they may eat of all the trees,except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    It would be alright to eat of the tree of life before the fall because they had an innocent nature.

    It would appear that they would of ate from the tree of life,prior to eating the forbidden tree,for they had to dress the garden,and take care of it,so they must of ran across the tree of life,and it seems like they would of sampled all the trees,and the tree of life was probably the most beautiful tree,and the tastiest fruit,for it is the tree of life,and not some ordinary tree with fruit.

    It was not like they were at Golden Corral and already had been eating for years,and know what foods taste like,so at the buffet they can say,I like that,but I do not care for that,and this is tasty,and that not so tasty,so I will not put it on my plate.

    But they were new to food,not knowing what anything tasted like,so I am sure they sampled all the trees,like a kid in a candy store,and the tree of life might have been their favorite,for it is the tree of life,so it seems like in comparison to other trees,it would have been better,but it cannot be proven,but it is the tree of life.

    But if someone says they did not eat of it,it cannot be proven no matter how hard you try that they did not eat of that tree,but I tend to believe they ate from the tree of life prior to eating the forbidden tree,and they were probably having picnics under it,and dancing around it,because it was actually the best tree there,for it is the tree of life.

    God ousted them from the garden,then He protected the tree of life.

    If they did not eat of the tree of life when they were ousted from the garden,why would they be so concerned about it after they were ousted from the garden,and if they were ousted from the garden,and then God protected the tree of life,why would God be concerned that they might turn back and want to eat of that tree.

    They might of wanted to go back and eat off that tree hoping to get back what they had lost,and be restored,for it is the tree of life,so God protected it,for it does not seem like they would be concerned about it if they never ate of that tree.

    So God must of not been concerned when they were ousted from the garden if they went back,for it would not have to be protected if there is no way they can go back,but seeing it is the tree of life so it could not die,but all the other trees might of wilted and died,for that was the end of the garden of Eden,which is probably why God was not concerned if they went back for they would find out there is nothing left there to eat,and a not beautiful place as it once was,and they could not touch the tree of life,so they could only move forward and venture on for the garden had nothing for them.They could no longer enjoy the food there,but had to go out and work the land for their food,by the sweat of their brow.

    So they probably knew what the tree was all about,and ate of it frequently prior to the fall,and when they were ousted from the garden they wanted to go back to the tree of life,to restore that which they lost,and being back in the garden right with God,when they had the easy life,but it would not have restored them which is why God protected it,and if they would of ate from it after the fall,they would of doomed all humanity,for there would be no salvation.

    It would of been alright for them to eat of the tree of life for they were in an innocent state,but when they ate of the forbidden tree,and fell to a sinful state,then God guarded the tree of life because if they would of ate from that tree in a sinful state,then they would of been like that forever,and Eve is the mother of all living,so where does that leave salvation.

    I believe they ate from the tree of life,for they sure knew what the tree represented,and it seems like they would of tried all the trees,for they could eat of all the trees,but the forbidden tree.
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    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    They died spiritually and started dying physically.

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Devin02 View Post
    In Genesis 2 when God is instructing Adam that he can't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he says if you eat from the tree "you shall surely die" (Verse 17). So how come they didn't die when they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil as God said they would?
    They did....REM. God's time table is 1 day to 1000 years with the exception being that He created all in 7 of our days..It is a little hart to keep it separate... Adam Died at what 962 years. almost the same day God told him he would die if he ate of that fruit.
    1 Cor 15:1-4

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    .

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Why would anyone assume that?

    Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see
    the kingdom of God unless they are born again."


    Why assume they had eaten of the Tree of Life? God barred their way to it so they could not live forever. That pretty clearly indicates that they had not already eaten of it. Otherwise, they would not have died eventually. Do you not see the Tree of Life as a type of Christ? He is the True Vine; by eating of Him, we attain to life ever after... those who do not eat of Christ, remain in the flesh, and will pass into the second death. Unless we are born again of the Spirit of God, we remain in the flesh, which counts for nothing; those who remain in Adam are not granted life ever after. It is fairly basic to the gospel message.


    Did you "partake" of Christ ONE TIME many years ago.... then just drifted from then on? Or do you keep going back to Christ each day (as He tells us to do in the Bible) and thus ABIDE in Him as A&E probably did in daily communion with Him in their evening walks with Him? Nothing tells us one bite made them immortal from that moment on. I think their Eternal Life came from "eating" of the tree of Jesus, daily........ as does ours.

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    what ever, - those whom God has called and chosen, will LIVE FOREVER with Him,
    for Eternity...oh what joy this brings to those of us who have served, obeyed and Loved Him
    with all of our hearts and minds and Spirits!!!

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Did you "partake" of Christ ONE TIME many years ago.... then just drifted from then on? Or do you keep going back to Christ each day (as He tells us to do in the Bible) and thus ABIDE in Him as A&E probably did in daily communion with Him in their evening walks with Him? Nothing tells us one bite made them immortal from that moment on. I think their Eternal Life came from "eating" of the tree of Jesus, daily........ as does ours.
    Nothing tells us that Adam and Eve ever ate from the Tree of Life.
    It is an assumption many make, despite what the text plainly says.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by oldethennew View Post
    what ever, - those whom God has called and chosen, will LIVE FOREVER with Him,
    for Eternity...oh what joy this brings to those of us who have served, obeyed and Loved Him
    with all of our hearts and minds and Spirits!!!
    That is the key. That is why the word, "believe", in the Bible, was anongoing, continuing state of being.

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    If the tree of life represented Christ, What did the tree of knowledge of good and evil represent? What will kill us spiritually if we try to live by it? Is it the law?
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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    They did....REM. God's time table is 1 day to 1000 years with the exception being that He created all in 7 of our days..It is a little hart to keep it separate... Adam Died at what 962 years. almost the same day God told him he would die if he ate of that fruit.
    Genesis 5:5 says Adam lived for 930 years.

    Genesis 9:29 records that Noah lived 950 years

    The man who lived the longest in the Bible is Methuselah, @ 969 years (Genesis 5:27).


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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    "Gen. 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them." This was the beginning of the blood sacrifice for sins. He covered their sin by the blood of animals. This was the precursor to the blood of the perfect sacrifice, Jesus Christ.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by jimd View Post
    If the tree of life represented Christ, What did the tree of knowledge of good and evil represent? What will kill us spiritually if we try to live by it? Is it the law?
    Probably self-reliance and pride.

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Once Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the forbidden tree, God made certain they could not then eat from the Tree of Life and live forever in their sinful state, by ousting them from the Garden of Eden and setting cherubim with a flaming sword to guard the Tree of Life. Some people believe that Adam and Eve had already eaten of the Tree of Life, just because they were alive, but since eating of the Tree of Life gives one life ever after, it is not possible that they had eaten of it. Everyone alive in the world today has not eaten of the Tree of Life, either

    The Tree of Life is a type of Christ. The fruit they ate can be seen as their rebellion against God, which alienated them from God and made them aware of their disobedience and lack of covering, which we now obtain through the shed righteous blood of Christ. Some say the death they experienced immediately is encapsulated in that spiritual severance, or alienation. It is only through faith in Christ's sacrifice on our behalf that we can be reconciled to God.
    Awesome word--
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Probably self-reliance and pride.
    Not too sure I could go down that road Willie. I do see that Adam’s sin did have those things.
    I think that view takes too much responsibility off of Adam.
    I can’t see at this moment that God would place somthing representing pride in that sense in the Garden
    . Also God had said that His creation was good .
    Or am I not following you correctly?
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Not too sure I could go down that road Willie. I do see that Adam’s sin did have those things.
    I think that view takes too much responsibility off of Adam.
    I can’t see at this moment that God would place somthing representing pride in that sense in the Garden
    . Also God had said that His creation was good .
    Or am I not following you correctly?
    Blessings
    Bill
    Well if you are thinking something along the lines of "Satan", that won't align with the "good" part.

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Devin02 View Post
    In Genesis 2 when God is instructing Adam that he can't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he says if you eat from the tree "you shall surely die" (Verse 17). So how come they didn't die when they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil as God said they would?
    Actually God said in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shall surely die, and they did, Gods days are one thousand year for us.2Peter.3:8. God bless

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Not not Satan he has the ability to think and change his mind his motives were static , but the tree would not have that ability . It was placed there for a purpose. I just do see that it’s reason for existence being pride .
    Honestly I would need to study more to give a answer that I would definitely stand on . As of now I am just bouncing around some concerts. This has me thinking. May be a good Sunday subject for study in church congregation.
    Blessings
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    Not just weekend visits.

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