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Thread: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Yet, the tree... if it does depict Jesus, is unchanging.
    You doubt that it does? Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world to give life ever after to those who place their faith in Him. It seems a pretty clear depiction of Christ. Eternal life is found in none other.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Jesus constantly said to abide in Him.... and to take up our cross, daily... and to keep holding to His commandments.... and persevere to the end. Nowhere is anything mentioned about us only having to make a trip to the front of the church and make a one-time statement to clinch the deal for all time. This commitment is something we keep on reaffirming each day.


    What does the above have to do with Adam and Eve never having eaten of the fruit of the tree of life?

    "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." - Genesis 3:22


    The scripture above that I previously provided, demonstrates without a doubt that they had not eaten from the tree of life. Just as it only took one bite of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, it would also only take one bite from the fruit of the tree of life to obtain eternal life. It's not something that you have to continually eat in order to maintain eternal life.

    To be clear, if Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of life just once, they would have lived forever and in a fallen state, as well as all of their offspring.

    They were told to not eat from only ONE tree. Are we to believe that they assumed the same restriction applied to the Tree of Life, when God had already told them they COULD eat of it and any other tree.... except for the ONE forbidden tree?
    Yes, that is exactly correct! Again, the verse that I provided above demonstrates that they had not yet eaten from the tree of life. All it would have taken was one bite and they would have lived forever, as all of their offspring
    .
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    It kind of sounds like the Tree of Life constantly produces a fresh offering of fruit that would be partaken of on an ongoing basis. Not a "Quick-Fix" to be eaten ONE-TIME, giving instant and permanent immortality.
    The above is an assumption on your part Willie. It only took one bite from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, not multiple eatings.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    The above is an assumption on your part Willie. It only took one bite from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, not multiple eatings.
    What happens if we stop feeding on Christ?........ If we just take one bite, back when we were 18?
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    It's preposterous to even suggest that God would lie about anything.
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    So you're telling me this is a signature line??

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by NotmebutHim View Post
    It's preposterous to even suggest that God would lie about anything.


    If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.


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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Devin02 View Post
    In Genesis 2 when God is instructing Adam that he can't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he says if you eat from the tree "you shall surely die" (Verse 17). So how come they didn't die when they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil as God said they would?


    They lived in paradise,they would have never died if they had not sinned. When they sinned they brought dead into the world,for them and for us. They did eventually die. So no,no lie.

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Devin02 View Post
    In Genesis 2 when God is instructing Adam that he can't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he says if you eat from the tree "you shall surely die" (Verse 17). So how come they didn't die when they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil as God said they would?
    Both Adam and Eve did die.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post


    What does the above have to do with Adam and Eve never having eaten of the fruit of the tree of life?



    The scripture above that I previously provided, demonstrates without a doubt that they had not eaten from the tree of life. Just as it only took one bite of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, it would also only take one bite from the fruit of the tree of life to obtain eternal life. It's not something that you have to continually eat in order to maintain eternal life.

    To be clear, if Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of life just once, they would have lived forever and in a fallen state, as well as all of their offspring.



    Yes, that is exactly correct! Again, the verse that I provided above demonstrates that they had not yet eaten from the tree of life. All it would have taken was one bite and they would have lived forever, as all of their offspring
    .

    "The scripture above that I previously provided, demonstrates without a doubt that they had not eaten from the tree of life."


    this doesnt prove a thing like that bro. the tree of life has nothing to do with thier Knowledge of Good and evil. why do you assume only one bite of the tree of life then you are immortal? what do you have to support that conclusion?

    if you look closely God says " you will surely die in the day you eat of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. as soon as they take the fruit and eat it, God comes near and they are afraid and Hide from Him. it is then that He expells them from the garden and at that point He closes off the way to the tree of life.

    its not debatable that they had free access to eat of the tree of life, they were given freedom to eat of any tree in the Garden. why would anyone assume they had never eaten from the tree of life when God makes clear they are free to eat of it along with every tree, and then warns them of the One deadly fruit?


    ever wonder why they were near the tree of good and evil? it was in the center of the Garden with the tree of life, stands to reason they were eating it when satan tempted them with the fruit of death. really the two trees are life, and then the other is death. its called the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil, but God makes clear it is death for man. theres absolutely no way to prove of they ate, or didnt eat from he tree of life, were not told, we do have though a very clear scripture telling us they were commanded By God that the tree of life was for them to freely eat of.

    you are missing a very important point. if its like you say and one piece of fruit mean theyd live forever, then Gods warning of death would be null and void. they could just eat the tree of life once and then the tree of death and nothing would happen. thats the flaw with assuming they hadnt eaten the fruit of life. just like any food, its what we eat every day that sustains us. we can feed on sin, which is death, or Gods will which is life. the logic of one bite means immortality is not really there to be seen. if so it makes God a liar when He warns them that the day they eat the fruit of death theyll die.


    God gave man the choice of life or death. he tells Him " you are free to eat of any tree in the garden" ( that includes both the tree of life, and the tree of death. then He warns Him " but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you must not eat for in the day you eat of it, you will surely die"


    he doesnt make it impossible for them to eat the fruit, he tells them they are free to eat any fruit they choose, and then warns them of the consequences of the tree of death. the choice is the same in Christ, we are free in all things, but the fruit of sin will certainly kill us if we feed on it, where as if we feed on the Bread of Life, we will live forever.


    thats where choice comes to man you have free will God tells adam, but this fruit will kill you" .......man has to have the ability to choose to do what is right or we are not in Gods image. so freedom of will and choice is a necassary part of being Gods People. were not slaves, but those who love God and see his word as it is...life and not death

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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by NotmebutHim View Post
    It's preposterous to even suggest that God would lie about anything.
    henrews 6:18 " That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:"


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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Maybe it was God's plan that they eat the apple and die, because immortality would mean a short lived earth.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    What happens if we stop feeding on Christ?........ If we just take one bite, back when we were 18?
    exactly willie thats a really profound thing to say. One of adams basic needs was food. God addresses this at creation, and then gives Him the right to eat of any tree in the garden. if the one bite theory were true why would adam not just take one bite of fruit at creation and then never eat again because hed never be hungry or need sustanance again afterthe one bite.....

    And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.......v15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."


    if you hire me to work around a deadly chemical willie, i hope you give me a clear warning of its dangers so i can keep safe from harm.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Edging God Out.
    Neat, we agree the tree of life is an emblem or representative of Christ, to eat from is to live by Him. I am thinking that to eat from or live by the law will cause us to die, not because there is something wrong with it, seeing as how it is perfect but we are not. I deduct from this the tree of knowledge of good and evil is representative of the law, "thou shall not", what do you think?
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    Maybe it was God's plan that they eat the apple and die, because immortality would mean a short lived earth.
    genesis 1:27-31 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. ...v31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold,it was very good. ( Gods will)


    Genesis 2:25 " And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

    Gen 3 : And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it waspleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


    Genesis 3:10 " And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."


    satans will is to seperate man from Gods presence, Gods will is to have a perfect relationship with mankind and for man to rule the earth because we are made after His image of righteousness. however God works all things together for the good of those who Love him

    Genesis 3:10 " And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."

    proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."

    psalm 111:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever."1 john 2 : 3-5 " And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."

    1 john 4 : 17-21 " Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19We love him, because he first loved us. 20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."

    1 john 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

    fear came to adam when He transgressed, fear is the beginning of wisdom, wisdom simply believes and obeys Gods commandments, and that is Love for God to Love Him and keep His commandments, and it is love for each other because we arent stealing, killing, lying, cheating, commiting adultery, bearing false witness ect...against each other.....and perfect Love, casts out fear because we arent afraid to be in Gods presence anymore, we Know He loves us enough to sacrifice Jesus His only begoten Son for us. why be afraid now when were acting in repentance because Of that.


    Gods will is being accomplished and will be in the end what we see in his promises of eternal Life. a perfect world where God is ever present and evil is forgotten where death, pain, sorrows, goodbyes hunger those things are no more. Gods will is not on a time limit it will be as He will when all things are under the feet of Christ and all people are serving Him in Love and Harmony.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    It kind of sounds like the Tree of Life constantly produces a fresh offering of fruit that would be partaken of on an ongoing basis. Not a "Quick-Fix" to be eaten ONE-TIME, giving instant and permanent immortality.

    such is salvation willie. if we continue partaking of Christ we will be saved, through our faith, and By Gods Grace even in eternity Gods Word will still be life and necassary daily
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    Maybe it was God's plan that they eat the apple and die, because immortality would mean a short lived earth.
    God knows the end from the beginning.

    God knew Adam/Eve would eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and He made provision for mankind's redemption.

    Adam/Eve eating of the fruit was entirely of their own volition.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by FlSnookman7 View Post
    They did indeed die. The true nature of their beings, that being their spirits, died. All who were born after inherited that same dead spirit from adam except Jesus as He had no human father. That is why the only way we can be saved or "quickened" (that means made alive) is by accepting Jesus as our Lord and receiving His living spirit.


    mans spirit didnt die at all it was corrupted and bound under death by sin. before Jesus came

    eccl 12:17 " Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

    Genesis 2:7 " And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


    Genesis 3:19 " In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

    the spirit of man, was breathed into adam by God it cannot die. the flesh is what was condemned there, adam died when God closed off the tree of life, at that moment adam was dead it was just a matter of time until He died. like a person on death row with no appeals left. that infact is now what every human is born into, were born on death row because were sinners descendants sin is in our nature to differing degrees, but its part of all of us. part of our flesh nature. when were tempted it doesnt appeal to Gods spirit in us, it appeals to the knoweldge of evil that is in mans nature now.

    a flesh body cant live without a spirit, just as adams body was formed first and then when His spirit is breathed into Him, he then becomes a living soul, the moment a persons spirit leaves thier body begins to decay. man has a spirit in us even when we receive Jesus we still have our spirit in us.

    romans 8:16 "
    The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


    its about the redemption of our souls, our eternal Lives. death was not part of mans original state it was introduced by satan through adam and eve and made as a yoke to Gods creation, mankind. death came through adams transgression.

    romans 5:12 "
    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

    before adam sinned, death was not a part of mans life. and as all things in the Bible show us the importance of descendants and bloodlines, we all descend from the first sinners, who were under a sentance of death. its not just adam and eve that are cursed with death, but all of thier descendants now anyone who comes forth from adam and eve ( all mankind) now are born under the sentance of man.

    Jesus comes not without reason, but to redeem mankind, from sin and death. the word " redeem" is like "reconciliation" it means that there was a prior relationship or state between man and God, and something happened to split that relationship, and Jesus came to mediate a reconciliation to that relationship between God and Man. adam is the first man ever given dominion and rule over the earth, and he led us into sin and death, Jesus then comes and is given all dominion and leads us into obedience and eternal Life. he is undoing what satan did through adam to all mankind.



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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by reneweddaybyday View Post

    God knows the end from the beginning.

    God knew Adam/Eve would eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and He made provision for mankind's redemption.

    Adam/Eve eating of the fruit was entirely of their own volition.

    absolutely Jesus was slain at the foundation of the World, and we understand why. its actually the moment man receives the power to choose in scripture. God gives Him freedom to eat any tree in the Garden, then He warns Him not to eat the fruit of death. He doesnt guard the way to the tree of good and evil or the tree of life, he tells them the truth, you must not eat this fruit or you will die."

    if they hold to that as the truth they will never eat the fruit, so satan attacke thier mind. " did God really say that you must not eat of any tree?.....eve responds. then he says in contradiction " you will not surely die' at this point He is calling God a liar wothout actually saying it, so he continues to dress it up with a motive " god knows when you eat it you will be as gods knowing good and evil" he makes it appealing and makes the knowledge appear as desirable while excluding the fact that its poison to man.

    he truly is clever and subtil his scheme worked eve now sees his way " the fruit is good for food not deadly, its desirable for gaining wisdom, not to be forbidden. and it doesnt look poisonous its pleasant to her eyes " he changes her perception of Gods word, offers Her question, doubt, and then ulterior motive. hes saying " God is oppressing you, this fruit isnt gonna hurt you, god want to keep it to Himself its really good for you but he doesnt want you to have it it wont harm you trussssss sss t me"


    what He ultimately did was changed mankinds perception of Gods word from life, to death you see it through the generations and then you see the people at horeb say this because God spoke to them

    exodus 20:19 " And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die."


    the sin in us is why were afraid of Gods presence and why His word can be so offensive to us. everything that is God, is completely contrary to sin, and everything that is sin is contrary to God. there is no middle place where sin, and God go hand in hand or can have any true relationship. there is a place where sinners can go and leave there sins behind and Know the true and Only God for eternity no matter what weve done before. when we covet and hide our sin it will always offend us to hear Gods word.

    our perception has to change from what satan made it to see Gods decrees as against us or out to crush us, or to put a yoke on us or burden us or oppress us. His words to us are because He wills that we heed him amd live forever in His presence. thats what its all about for us the promises made by Jesus Christ. man is not a puppet, we all have the same choice of life or death as adam did. we can choose our will or satans will ( sin) and die, or we can choose Jesus Christ and the Gospel of salvation and Live.
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by tourist View Post
    Both Adam and Eve did die.
    Died once?
    Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:6
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    Default Re: Did God tell a lie? (Genesis 2-3)

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post


    They lived in paradise,they would have never died if they had not sinned. When they sinned they brought dead into the world,for them and for us. They did eventually die. So no,no lie.
    I am not sure it is quite that simple...about never having died if they had not sinned.
    To live for ever they would also have had to eat of the tree of Life....and not ignore or reject it in favour of all the other trees/fruit...apart from the forbidden tree of course.

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