The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

homwardbound · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

[h=1]Hebrews 1:1-4Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.[/FONT]

homwardbound · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Hebrews 2:17
[FONT=&quot]Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 3:1
[FONT=&quot]Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 4:14
[FONT=&quot]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 4:15
[FONT=&quot]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 5:1
[FONT=&quot]For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 5:5
[FONT=&quot]So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an highpriest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 5:10
[FONT=&quot]called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 6:20
[FONT=&quot]whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 7:1
[FONT=&quot]For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 7:26
[FONT=&quot]For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 7:27
[FONT=&quot]who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 7:28
[FONT=&quot]For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 8:1
[FONT=&quot]Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 8:3
[FONT=&quot]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
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Hebrews 9:7
[FONT=&quot]But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 9:11
[FONT=&quot]But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
[/FONT]
Hebrews 9:25
[FONT=&quot]nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the highpriest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
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Hebrews 10:21
[FONT=&quot]and having an high priest over the house of God;In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
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Hebrews 13:11
[FONT=&quot]For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.[/FONT]

CherieR · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

It is ok and good to call Jesus both the Lord and the Messiah. Just don't acknowledge him as one and not the other.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Grandpa said:

Grandpa,

You've focused on the issue which was the basis of this thread. To call Jesus "the Lord Jesus Christ is indeed pretty important to Christians. One cannot be truly saved unless Jesus is received by the sinner as BOTH Lord and Christ (each word having a different meaning and significance). This goes to the heart of Easy Believism.

This thread is NOT about the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ has NUMEROUS names and titles. That is a given. It is how the Savior is perceived and received by sinners when the Gospel is preached. And the true Gospel must emphasize the fact that the resurrection of Christ is not only essential to the Gospel and our salvation, but it makes Jesus of Nazareth the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thomas (originally doubting Thomas) saw this immediately when he met the Risen Christ in person. He exclaimed while worshiping "My Lord and my God". But the amazing thing in Scripture is that the repentant thief on the Christ saw Jesus as both Lord and King: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. One has to wonder as to where this malefactor obtained his theology.

Waggles · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

9 Wherefore God also has highly exalted him, and given him a name
which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven,
and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:

Waggles · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the
Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord,
but by the Holy Ghost.
1Corinthians 12:

joefizz · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Magenta said:

[TABLE="class: responsive-table"]
[TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
[TH="bgcolor: #E9EEF1, colspan: 2, align: left"]VI.—Thou hast made Him a
little lower than the angels. Hbr 2:7 [/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] The Man [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] Jhn 19:5 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] The Man Christ Jesus [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] 1Ti 2:5 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] A Man approved of God [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] Act 2:22 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] The Second Man, the Lord from heaven [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] 1Cr 15:47 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] The Son of Man [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] Mar 10:33 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] The Son of Abraham [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] Mat 1:1 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] The Son of David [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] Mat 1:1 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] The Son of Mary [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] Mar 6:3 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] The Son of Joseph (reputed) [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] Jhn 1:45 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] The Seed of the Woman [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #F8F9FA, align: left"] Gen 3:15 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] The Seed of Abraham [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"] Gal 3:16, 19 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: label--cols, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #EFF2F5, align: left"] Of the Seed of David [/TD]
[TD="class: label--half, bgcolor: #EFF2F5, align: left"] Rom 1:3[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Whoops forgot to my name with the rep magenta!

Magenta · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

joefizz said:

Thank you, Joseph, God bless you! ❤

joefizz · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Magenta said:

Well you did do great,you're welcome!

Speak2Me · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Nehemiah6 said:

As you go through the New Testament you will notice a change in how the apostles refer to Christ. In the Gospels Jesus always referred to Himself as “the Son of Man” and the evangelists spoke about “Jesus” throughout. But after His resurrection and ascension He is generally called “the Lord Jesus Christ” (κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός = kurios Iesous Christos). And here is the reason given by Peter in Acts 2:36: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Jesus of Nazareth came to Israel as their Messiah (the Anointed One). But they rejected Him, and cried for His crucifixion, and He was crucified. But He arose from the dead after three days, and then (fifty days afterthe crucifixion) the Gospel was preached by Peter to all the Jews (from all over the Roman empire) gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost. And it was to “the house of Israel” that God announced, through Peter, that Jesus was no longer merely “Jesus of Nazareth” – the Messiah of the Jews – but after His resurrection He was BOTH Lord and Christ, which translated into “the Lord Jesus Christ”. And it was none other than God Himself who made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

Recently there has been a trend to reverse this revelation and go back to calling Jesus “Yeshua” and “Messiah”. This is actually a theological problem, and in fact a rejection of the New Testament teaching on Christ following His resurrection. The days of “Messiah” were concluded about 2,000 years ago, and since then Jesus has been “the Lord Jesus Christ” for Christians, and King of kings and Lord of lords for humanity. Even the calendars of the world recognize that we are “in the year of the Lord 2018” or Anno Domini –AD -- 2018.

We do not see the people who are trying to reverse things also calling Jesus “ADONAI Yeshua haMashiach” (which would be equivalent to Lord Jesus Christ). They keep reverting to “Yeshua”, and also trying to reinstate the Law of Moses (as much possible). And this clearly has an impact on the true Gospel.

The true Gospel must include the proclamation that Jesus is God who became sinless Man to die for the sins of the whole world. But it must also include the proclamation of His death, burial, and resurrection. And as Peter already preached, it is Christ’s resurrection which makes Him both Lord and Christ, and therefore sinners must receive Him as BOTH Lord and Christ. In fact Paul makes it clear both in Acts and in Romans that it is by believing on the LORD Jesus Christ that sinners are saved. It is no accident that the word “Lord” is included in the true Gospel proclamation.

PETER (Acts 2:24-36)
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

PAUL (Acts 16:29-31; Rom 10:8-13)
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I saw from the beginning what you were trying to say.

It's not just the Hebrew writers that do this, though.

There's a whole slew of people out there that will call Jesus everything but Lord.

There's an old saying I learned as a young Pentecostal - "If Jesus isn't Lord of all, He's not Lord at all".

I've noticed Lordship Salvationists have no problem calling Jesus 'LORD', but all the opposites of them do.

That's as far as I'll go with it.

BTW, good thread.

Waggles · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Every day when I pray in tongues by the Holy Spirit
I am confessing that Jesus Christ is both my Lord and my God.

1Corinthians 12:3

maxwel · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Waggles said:

Waggles, now you know I think you're a nice guy and all... but I have to ask you a question here.

If you're praying in tongues, which is an unknown language...

how exactly do you know what you're saying?

Waggles · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

maxwel said:

That is the whole point of the exercise!!
The Holy Spirit does the praying directly to God my Father through
Jesus my Lord and my Saviour.

Let's say I've been a naughty boy [hard to imagine I know] but
when I confess my wrongdoings and I pray in tongues then I
over time and with contrition get cleansed or purged from the
power of that sin.
I grow in the power to deny myself and I am made free.

Let's say someone I know needs a healing or help with their
circumstances then I can pray for them in tongues over time
and most usually there are healings and/or improvements to
their circumstances.

Praying in tongues is the refreshing.

Lafftur · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

LOL! I love to pray in tongues!

There is another gift - the gift of interpretation of tongues which is the Holy Spirit giving you understanding of what was prayed.

I know it's scary to most, but I'm definitely a fan of praying in tongues.

maxwel said:

Lafftur · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Hello Waggles,

Yes, praying in tongues is very refreshing! I agree!

notuptome · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Oh no not this again...Show me where any scripture instructs us to pray without knowledge. Somebody needs to read Proverbs and learn what God wants His children to do with the gifts He has given them.

Solomon teaches that we are to seek knowledge from which we attain understanding and then we progress to wisdom. The Apostle Paul having been a devout Jew would never espouse dispensing with knowledge as a means to attaining edification or wisdom.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

John146 · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Lafftur said:

I also pray in tongues...the English tongue. It's great!

Waggles · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

John146 said:

I'm bilingual.
English and tongues.

Dino246 · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

Back to the OP...

While it is clear that in his initial greetings, Paul commonly uses the phrase "the Lord Jesus Christ", that compound title/name is not used every time Paul refers to Jesus. Further, Paul often refers simply to "Christ" which, in Hebrew, is "Messiah".

According to a quick search in BibleGateway, the phrase "Lord Jesus Christ" appears 82 times in the KJV. "Christ" without both of the other terms appears 455 times. I'd have to say, by the weight of numbers, that there is no scriptural justification for always addressing or referring to Jesus as "Lord Jesus Christ". "Messiah" is quite adequate and appropriate. The key is in not allowing any one term to limit our understanding of Who He is.

Where I can see a point to this is when talking with an adherent of another belief system who might acknowledge Jesus in some fashion, but not in a manner consistent with Scripture. Even then, it would be sufficient to explain Who Jesus is, and then use a more concise term.

When it comes right down to it, English is inadequate for expressing the fullness of Christ. Let's not burden ourselves or others unnecessarily with cumbersome terminology.

Lucy-Pevensie · Jan 8, 2018

Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

notuptome said:

What are you talking about?

The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

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