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Thread: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    As you go through the New Testament you will notice a change in how the apostles refer to Christ. In the Gospels Jesus always referred to Himself as “the Son of Man” and the evangelists spoke about “Jesus” throughout. But after His resurrection and ascension He is generally called “the Lord Jesus Christ” (κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός = kurios Iesous Christos). And here is the reason given by Peter in Acts 2:36: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Jesus of Nazareth came to Israel as their Messiah (the Anointed One). But they rejected Him, and cried for His crucifixion, and He was crucified. But He arose from the dead after three days, and then (fifty days afterthe crucifixion) the Gospel was preached by Peter to all the Jews (from all over the Roman empire) gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost. And it was to “the house of Israel” that God announced, through Peter, that Jesus was no longer merely “Jesus of Nazareth” – the Messiah of the Jews – but after His resurrection He was BOTH Lord and Christ, which translated into “the Lord Jesus Christ”. And it was none other than God Himself who made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

    Recently there has been a trend to reverse this revelation and go back to calling Jesus “Yeshua” and “Messiah”. This is actually a theological problem, and in fact a rejection of the New Testament teaching on Christ following His resurrection.
    The days of “Messiah” were concluded about 2,000 years ago, and since then Jesus has been “the Lord Jesus Christ” for Christians, and King of kings and Lord of lords for humanity. Even the calendars of the world recognize that we are “in the year of the Lord 2018” or Anno Domini –AD -- 2018.

    We do not see the people who are trying to reverse things also calling Jesus “ADONAI Yeshua haMashiach” (which would be equivalent to Lord Jesus Christ). They keep reverting to “Yeshua”, and also trying to reinstate the Law of Moses (as much possible). And this clearly has an impact on the true Gospel.

    The true Gospel must include the proclamation that Jesus is God who became sinless Man to die for the sins of the whole world. But it must also include the proclamation of His death, burial, and resurrection. And as Peter already preached, it is Christ’s resurrection which makes Him both Lord and Christ, and therefore sinners must receive Him as BOTH Lord and Christ. In fact Paul makes it clear both in Acts and in Romans that it is by believing on the LORD Jesus Christ that sinners are saved. It is no accident that the word “Lord” is included in the true Gospel proclamation.

    PETER (Acts 2:24-36)
    24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
    25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
    26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
    27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
    29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
    34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    PAUL (Acts 16:29-31; Rom 10:8-13)
    Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    The Hebrew word is mashiach and means anointed one or chosen one.

    What's the problem with that?

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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Is it OK to say Master rather then Lord?



    and Is it OK to call Him by a name with a letter "J" that did not exist until the 16th century?


    I find it odd that many of those who use Yahshua/Yeshua/Yahushua/Yahowshua etc. are spoken bad of saying it's wrong or that they think they are better than others.


    I myself use Yahshua/Yahushua, never have told anyone they HAVE to use a certain name, only that I believe this to be His real name, yet I have been attacked verbally and have had many bad things said about me for doing so. and I do get told I'm wrong... Yet Look up Jesus, you will find Yahushua, look up Christ you will find Messiah...

    “Jesus” is word #G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous') n/p., 1. (meaning) He is Salvation, Yahweh saves (i.e. the Savior)., 2. (person) Jesus (i.e. Yeshua, Yehoshua), the name of our Lord, also called the Last Adam., 3. (person) Joshua (i.e. Yehoshua) an Israelite, the servant and successor of Moses., 4. (person) Jeshua, also called Justus, an Israelite, a coworker with Paul., 5. (NOTE) (“Jesus” is a valid English transliteration, coming from Ancient Hebrew to Koine Greek (via the Septuagint) to Latin to Old English to Modern English. It is completely acceptable to God (Yahweh) for us call upon the Savior's name as “Jesus,” or “Iesous,” or “Yeshua,” or even “Yesu” as in Christian Arabic or in the Fijian Islands, et al. God prepared for all nations to be able to trust in the Savior and to call upon his name by preparing a language dialect for international use: the Hebraic-Koine Greek. Thus, technically and formally, the pronunciation “Iesous” was intentionally established by the Savior as the common basis for Jewish and Gentile acknowledgment of his Redemption and Salvation, going forth as needed into every tribe, native tongue, people, and nation. “Yeshua” is of course delightfully acceptable to him, when it is not used as an exclusionary name. Love edifies)., 6. (NOTE) (Revelation 3:12)., [of Hebrew origin (H3442 as the shortened form of H3091)], KJV: Jesus, Root(s): H3442, See also: H3091


    Root word of “Jesus” is word #H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l., 1. he will save., 2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel., [for H3091], KJV: Jeshua. , Root(s): H3091


    Root word of #H3342is word #H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p., YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) , 1. Yahweh-saved., 2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader., [from H3068 and H3467], KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. , Root(s): H3068, H3467, Compare: H1954, H3442


    Root word of #H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a is word #H3467 יָשַׁע yasha` (yaw-shah') v., 1. (properly) to be open, wide or free from captivity., 2. (by implication) to be safe., 3. (causatively) to rescue or succor., [a primitive root], KJV: X at all, avenging, defend, deliver(-er), help, preserve, rescue, be safe, bring (having) salvation, save(-iour), get victory., Compare: H2666, H7768, See also: H3444, H3468, H3469, H4190, H4337, G5614


    G5547 Χριστός Christos (chriy-stos') n/p., 1. (literally) Anointed, a man anointed with oil (for a set purpose)., 2. (properly) the Messiah, the Anointed-One of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob., 3. (transliterated) “Christ” (anglicized), “Christos” (from Greek)., 4. (by function) the (kinsman) Redeemer, the Savior., 5. (by identity) Jesus, Yeshua, Ἰησοῦς , יְהוֹשׁוּעַ ,יְהוֹשֻׁעַ., [from G5548], KJV: Christ, Root(s): G5548, Compare: G3323, See also: G5546, H4899


    H4899 מָשִׁיחַ mashiyach (maw-shee'-ach) n-m., 1. anointed., 2. (usually) a person anointed and set apart (made holy) to God's service (as a king, priest, or servant)., 3. (specifically) the Messiah, the Anointed One., [from H4886], KJV: anointed, Messiah., Root(s): H4886

    The only problem I see it is does not fit with tradition, it is true but not traditionally comfortable, just like this, romoving YHWH and replacing it with Lord because Jewish tradition:

    Good News Translation Bible - Preface
    "Following an ancient tradition, begun by the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Septuagint) and followed by the vast majority of English translations, the distinctive Hebrew name for God (usually transliterated Jehovah or Yahweh), is in this translation represented by “LORD.” When Adonai, normally translated “Lord,” is followed by Yahweh, the combination is rendered by the phrase “Sovereign LORD.”

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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Messiah and Christ = anointing

    most appropriate because it is what salvation for the Jews
    and through them the gentiles is all about:
    a new covenant
    a covenant that was to be a new and living way -baptism (infilling)
    of the Holy Spirit
    disciples would be anointed by the Holy Spirit as Christ Jesus was.

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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    As you go through the New Testament you will notice a change in how the apostles refer to Christ. In the Gospels Jesus always referred to Himself as “the Son of Man” and the evangelists spoke about “Jesus” throughout. But after His resurrection and ascension He is generally called “the Lord Jesus Christ” (κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός = kurios Iesous Christos). And here is the reason given by Peter in Acts 2:36: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Jesus of Nazareth came to Israel as their Messiah (the Anointed One). But they rejected Him, and cried for His crucifixion, and He was crucified. But He arose from the dead after three days, and then (fifty days afterthe crucifixion) the Gospel was preached by Peter to all the Jews (from all over the Roman empire) gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost. And it was to “the house of Israel” that God announced, through Peter, that Jesus was no longer merely “Jesus of Nazareth” – the Messiah of the Jews – but after His resurrection He was BOTH Lord and Christ, which translated into “the Lord Jesus Christ”. And it was none other than God Himself who made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

    Recently there has been a trend to reverse this revelation and go back to calling Jesus “Yeshua” and “Messiah”. This is actually a theological problem, and in fact a rejection of the New Testament teaching on Christ following His resurrection.
    The days of “Messiah” were concluded about 2,000 years ago, and since then Jesus has been “the Lord Jesus Christ” for Christians, and King of kings and Lord of lords for humanity. Even the calendars of the world recognize that we are “in the year of the Lord 2018” or Anno Domini –AD -- 2018.

    We do not see the people who are trying to reverse things also calling Jesus “ADONAI Yeshua haMashiach” (which would be equivalent to Lord Jesus Christ). They keep reverting to “Yeshua”, and also trying to reinstate the Law of Moses (as much possible). And this clearly has an impact on the true Gospel.

    The true Gospel must include the proclamation that Jesus is God who became sinless Man to die for the sins of the whole world. But it must also include the proclamation of His death, burial, and resurrection. And as Peter already preached, it is Christ’s resurrection which makes Him both Lord and Christ, and therefore sinners must receive Him as BOTH Lord and Christ. In fact Paul makes it clear both in Acts and in Romans that it is by believing on the LORD Jesus Christ that sinners are saved. It is no accident that the word “Lord” is included in the true Gospel proclamation.

    PETER (Acts 2:24-36)
    24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
    25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
    26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
    27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
    29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
    34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    PAUL (Acts 16:29-31; Rom 10:8-13)
    Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Lightning hasn't struck me yet for calling Jesus any name that refers to him appropriately so I for one am not worried about what "name" I choose or what title I choose to call him,for all that matters to me is if he being my saviour approves of being called said name or title.
    Last edited by joefizz; 1 Week Ago at 10:49 PM.
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    Lightning hasn't struck me yet for calling Jesus any name that refers to him appropriately so I for one am not worried about what "name" I choose or what title I choose to call him,for all that matters to me is if he being my saviour approves of being called said name or title.
    I am quite surprised by your poor attitude to this matter. Did you notice that you said "my Savior" but not "my Savior and my Lord" or "my Lord and my God" (as did doubting Thomas)?

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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    I am quite surprised by your poor attitude to this matter. Did you notice that you said "my Savior" but not "my Savior and my Lord" or "my Lord and my God" (as did doubting Thomas)?
    Hahaha hahaha you crack me up,so a few words spoken mean so much more than the heart?
    good luck with that.
    Joefizz- king of randomness -making others laugh is his hobby.

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    If you don't believe in true love then please don't tell me not to believe in it because I believe it to be real.

    You are perfect?
    self righteousness is as filthy rags the bible says.
    You might wanna reconsider that ideal.

    We are all family in God's eyes,so please at least try to get along,sincerely, a child of God.

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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamah View Post
    Is it OK to say Master rather then Lord?
    No, it is not. Master = Rabbi, and as long as Jesus of Nazareth was completing His earthly ministry, many (including His disciples) saw Him as a Jewish rabbi. But after His crucifixion and resurrection, Thomas saw Him as "my Lord and my God" and that is what Peter and Paul were teaching and preaching. Jesus is not merely the Savior of the world, but He is BOTH Lord and Christ (Messiah).

    In the Old Testament LORD (YHWH) meant God, so the Lord Jesus Christ is God the Son, and co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Christ's resurrection proved that He was God who died for the sins of the world.

    To regard Christ as Lord means that He owns you. Scripture says that you have been bought with the price --which is His shed blood. So He is you Lord and Master, controlled of your life and your destiny.
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    I just view it as a badge of snobbery/distinction - I usually just scroll right past any posting with that lot in.
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    I am quite surprised by your poor attitude to this matter. Did you notice that you said "my Savior" but not "my Savior and my Lord" or "my Lord and my God" (as did doubting Thomas)?
    Well considering your topic is rather trivial and petty,why shouldn't I treat it as such?
    The Pharisees did the same ya know,prizing their traditions and words over that which is right,come to think of it where is it written "what one must call" Jesus/Immanuel/Emmanuel/Christ,Saviour,Lord,Messiah,?
    As I understand it Jesus just the same as God since he is one with him is "no respector to persons" as in if anyone speaks of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,and Lamb of God as what isn't pleasing "to our ears" guess what?,"Oh well",the heart is far more important than any mere word or tradition to God/Jesus,if ye say his name respectfully in anywise sincerely then you have spoken well.
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    I'm a smart idiot that serves God and I'm determined to keep to a future I believe in and trolls don't like me.

    If you don't believe in true love then please don't tell me not to believe in it because I believe it to be real.

    You are perfect?
    self righteousness is as filthy rags the bible says.
    You might wanna reconsider that ideal.

    We are all family in God's eyes,so please at least try to get along,sincerely, a child of God.

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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    The Hebrew word is mashiach and means anointed one or chosen one.

    What's the problem with that?
    The issue is not the meaning of Messiah, but that Messiah is now LORD after His resurrection. Big difference. After Christ conquered death, Hades, Hell, and Satan, He rose from the dead of His own volition. Only God as Savior could do that. And that is why Thomas rightly discerned "My Lord and my God" after seeing the Risen Christ in person. So to omit "Lord" and speak only of Messiah after His resurrection is to deny what He accomplished through His death, burial and resurrection. Messiah was reject as Messiah, so no one has the right to go back and call Jesus only Messiah after Peter -- speaking in the power of the Holy Spirit -- said that God had made this same Jesus BOTH Lord and Christ.

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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    The issue is not the meaning of Messiah, but that Messiah is now LORD after His resurrection. Big difference. After Christ conquered death, Hades, Hell, and Satan, He rose from the dead of His own volition. Only God as Savior could do that. And that is why Thomas rightly discerned "My Lord and my God" after seeing the Risen Christ in person. So to omit "Lord" and speak only of Messiah after His resurrection is to deny what He accomplished through His death, burial and resurrection. Messiah was reject as Messiah, so no one has the right to go back and call Jesus only Messiah after Peter -- speaking in the power of the Holy Spirit -- said that God had made this same Jesus BOTH Lord and Christ.
    If you have accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour,do you really think he would "condemn us" for calling him Messiah at times,I mean normally I don't call him Messiah but it still "Is him" for though he is called Christ and Lord as you say,he still is "The Messiah".
    Joefizz- king of randomness -making others laugh is his hobby.

    I'm a smart idiot that serves God and I'm determined to keep to a future I believe in and trolls don't like me.

    If you don't believe in true love then please don't tell me not to believe in it because I believe it to be real.

    You are perfect?
    self righteousness is as filthy rags the bible says.
    You might wanna reconsider that ideal.

    We are all family in God's eyes,so please at least try to get along,sincerely, a child of God.

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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    This is foolish false hair splitting.

    He was called Messiah to His face.... because HE IS THE MESSIAH..


    John 4:25



    New International Version
    The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."


    New Living Translation
    The woman said, "I know the Messiah is coming--the one who is called Christ. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."


    English Standard Version
    The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”


    Berean Study Bible
    The woman said, "I know that Messiah (called Christ) is coming. When He comes, He will explain everything to us."


    Berean Literal Bible
    The woman says to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming, who is called Christ; when He comes, He will tell us all things."


    New American Standard Bible
    The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us."


    King James Bible
    The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamah View Post
    This is foolish false hair splitting.

    He was called Messiah to His face.... because HE IS THE MESSIAH..


    John 4:25



    New International Version
    The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."


    New Living Translation
    The woman said, "I know the Messiah is coming--the one who is called Christ. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."


    English Standard Version
    The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”


    Berean Study Bible
    The woman said, "I know that Messiah (called Christ) is coming. When He comes, He will explain everything to us."


    Berean Literal Bible
    The woman says to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming, who is called Christ; when He comes, He will tell us all things."


    New American Standard Bible
    The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us."


    King James Bible
    The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
    Well you know "details" can "get in the way" so easy to point and say "that's not right" just because it doesn't "sound right" to the individual,honestly I am concerned over if anyone accepts Jesus as Saviour and Lord at all,not which of his many names people respectfully call him.
    Joefizz- king of randomness -making others laugh is his hobby.

    I'm a smart idiot that serves God and I'm determined to keep to a future I believe in and trolls don't like me.

    If you don't believe in true love then please don't tell me not to believe in it because I believe it to be real.

    You are perfect?
    self righteousness is as filthy rags the bible says.
    You might wanna reconsider that ideal.

    We are all family in God's eyes,so please at least try to get along,sincerely, a child of God.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Shamah's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    John 4:23-26, “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him. YHWH is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth. The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming, the One who is called Christ. When that One comes, He shall tell us all things.” יהושע said to her, “I who am speaking to you is He.”
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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamah View Post
    This is foolish false hair splitting. He was called Messiah to His face.... because HE IS THE MESSIAH..
    Why are you choosing to miss the point? Was He called "My Lord and my God" before His resurrection? Do you understand the significance of why Paul generally refers to Jesus as "the Lord Jesus Christ" when He begins His epistles and throughout? And why he said "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD Jesus..." and "Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ..."? He could have simply said "Jesus" but because Peter said that God had made that same Jesus BOTH Lord and Christ, the apostles spoke of the Lord Jesus Christ. Each of those words has its own significance.
    Last edited by Nehemiah6; 1 Week Ago at 01:29 AM.
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    Senior Member Shamah's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    Well you know "details" can "get in the way" so easy to point and say "that's not right" just because it doesn't "sound right" to the individual,honestly I am concerned over if anyone accepts Jesus as Saviour and Lord at all,not which of his many names people respectfully call him.
    I agree, I don't mean to saound rude but I think many are stuck on tradition, truth usullay is pusehd to the side for comfort. I will tell you I had many sleepless nights when I read the word for myself, I learnd much of what I was taught was not scriptual but tradition. Truth is all that matters, my feelings do not matter in the big picture.
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    As you go through the New Testament you will notice a change in how the apostles refer to Christ. In the Gospels Jesus always referred to Himself as “the Son of Man” and the evangelists spoke about “Jesus” throughout. But after His resurrection and ascension He is generally called “the Lord Jesus Christ” (κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός = kurios Iesous Christos). And here is the reason given by Peter in Acts 2:36: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Jesus of Nazareth came to Israel as their Messiah (the Anointed One). But they rejected Him, and cried for His crucifixion, and He was crucified. But He arose from the dead after three days, and then (fifty days afterthe crucifixion) the Gospel was preached by Peter to all the Jews (from all over the Roman empire) gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost. And it was to “the house of Israel” that God announced, through Peter, that Jesus was no longer merely “Jesus of Nazareth” – the Messiah of the Jews – but after His resurrection He was BOTH Lord and Christ, which translated into “the Lord Jesus Christ”. And it was none other than God Himself who made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

    Recently there has been a trend to reverse this revelation and go back to calling Jesus “Yeshua” and “Messiah”. This is actually a theological problem, and in fact a rejection of the New Testament teaching on Christ following His resurrection.
    The days of “Messiah” were concluded about 2,000 years ago, and since then Jesus has been “the Lord Jesus Christ” for Christians, and King of kings and Lord of lords for humanity. Even the calendars of the world recognize that we are “in the year of the Lord 2018” or Anno Domini –AD -- 2018.

    We do not see the people who are trying to reverse things also calling Jesus “ADONAI Yeshua haMashiach” (which would be equivalent to Lord Jesus Christ). They keep reverting to “Yeshua”, and also trying to reinstate the Law of Moses (as much possible). And this clearly has an impact on the true Gospel.

    The true Gospel must include the proclamation that Jesus is God who became sinless Man to die for the sins of the whole world. But it must also include the proclamation of His death, burial, and resurrection. And as Peter already preached, it is Christ’s resurrection which makes Him both Lord and Christ, and therefore sinners must receive Him as BOTH Lord and Christ. In fact Paul makes it clear both in Acts and in Romans that it is by believing on the LORD Jesus Christ that sinners are saved. It is no accident that the word “Lord” is included in the true Gospel proclamation.

    PETER (Acts 2:24-36)
    24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
    25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
    26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
    27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
    29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
    34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    PAUL (Acts 16:29-31; Rom 10:8-13)
    Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


    I'm sorry this is stupid. Your one of the people I respect but this is STUPID. Christ is Anointed One in Greek and Messiah is Anointed One in Hebrew; so unless there is some problem with the LORDS LANGUAGE... THIS IS STUPID!!! PEOPLE THAT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MESSIAH HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE LORDS LANGUAGE!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!! You insult Hebrew the language G-d Himself created!!!!
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Shamah's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Why are you choosing to miss the point? Was He called "My Lord and my God" before His resurrection? Do you understand the significance of why Paul generally refers to Jesus as "the Lord Jesus Christ" when He begins His epistles and throughout? And why he said "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD Jesus..." and "Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ..."? He could have simply said "Jesus" but because Peter that that God had made that same Jesus BOTH Lord and Christ, the apostles spoke of the Lord Jesus Christ. Each of those words has its own significance.
    What about Messaih? No longer Messiah? This is silly. Im not actually saying this but if these minor differences are not acceptable how is it acceptable to call Him Jesus, the letter J was invented 1,600 after His ascention, the name never existed before that...

    So is it OK if I call Him Yahushua the Messiah?

    or what about Yahushua ruler and king?

    Psalm 110:1, "יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”


    Isaiah 9:6-7, “For a Child is born unto us, a Son is given unto us, and the rule is on His shoulder. And His Name is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty Strength, Everlasting Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of Dawiḏ and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with right-ruling and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The zeal of יהוה of hosts does this.”

    Also I think you do bring up a good pint from the aspect of Master and savior.

    We claim Him as our Savior but do we treat Him as our Master?


    John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."


    Luke 6:46, “But why do you call Me ‘Master, Master,’ and do not do what I say?”
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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with calling Jesus “Messiah” instead of “the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Quote Originally Posted by mcubed View Post
    I'm sorry this is stupid. Your one of the people I respect but this is STUPID. Christ is Anointed One in Greek and Messiah is Anointed One in Hebrew; so unless there is some problem with the LORDS LANGUAGE... THIS IS STUPID!!! PEOPLE THAT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MESSIAH HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE LORDS LANGUAGE!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!! You insult Hebrew the language G-d Himself created!!!!
    Looks like I have struck a nerve. And calling my post stupid won't change what is from Scripture and shown to be from Scripture for a reason. What you are saying is that calling Jesus "the Lord Jesus Christ" is stupid. And that is actually blasphemous, though you may not realize it.

    To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and
    that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    Grace
    be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort

    Grace
    be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ...

    Grace
    be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Blessed
    be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ
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