Spiritual warfare and the spiritual realm

[Waggles]

First of all no one can be dogmatic about this, since there is very little revealed to us about the mechanics and the nature of speaking supernaturally in a foreign language by the power of the Spirit.

Only to those not of Pentecost
but we are learned on these matters and
know what it is all about.

There is also confusion over tongues as the sign
> G4592 sēmeion
of receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit

versus the gift in the church of diversities of tongues
> G5486 charisma

(ASV) to another divers kinds of tongues;
(BBE) to another different sorts of tongues;
(YLT) and to another divers kinds of tongues;
(ISV) to another various kinds of languages;

In The Revival Fellowship we have 100% praying
in tongues congregation as all are baptized in water
and in the Holy Spirit.
No confusion. One sign.

In a worship meeting we operate the voice gifts of
the Holy Spirit -

diversities of tongues
[and if you were in a Pentecostal
church that did this you would know why this gift is described
as such and not simply as tongues]
followed by interpretation
followed by gifts of prophecy

This is where Paul writes of do all speak in tongues,
do all prophecy?
He is referring to the distribution of the voice gifts in
the church.
Not everybody in the congregation operates these
voice gifts.
But there are another six gifts also freely available
for the saints as required for the proper functioning
and health of a Spirit-filled church.[SUB][/SUB]

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Changing the subject from the manifestation of kinds of tongues to the spiritual warfare we all face in our day and time ...

God's Word makes clear that we are involved in a spiritual battle as opposed to a physical battle:

2 Corinthians 10:

3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ


Although we live in the physical realm with fleshly bodies, the true battle takes place in the spiritual realm. When we have our spiritual lives in order, the physical will fall in line. This does not mean that the adversary will not use others in his attempt to ensnare us so that we take our focus off the spiritual battle taking place. However, just as God surrounded the children of Israel when they left Egypt, He will provide the protection we need in order to help us endure the onslaught of the enemy.

In 1 Peter 5:6-10, we are instructed to humble ourselves under the mighty Hand of God, cast all our cares upon Him, to be sober-minded and vigilant against our adversary, resist him and remain steadfast in faith. And as we endure our present suffering, God works within us to perfect us, establish us, strengthen us, and settle us after a while. It's interesting that God does not tell us how long "a while" is. He just tells us to remain steadfast in faith as He works within us while we endure. There is a similar verse in James – Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you (Jas 4:7). As in 1 Peter, James does not indicate how long we are to resist before the devil will flee. We just need to remember that God is faithful and He will help us endure and since He tells us the devil will flee, the devil will flee.


Then we have Ephesians 6:10-19 where the armor of God is described. This is the spiritual armor we put on so that we may face this life's challenges. And it's interesting that we have this armor in order to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand (Eph 6:13), and pray always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints (Eph 6:18), and boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel (Eph 6:19).

Withstand and stand, pray and boldly speak and make known the mystery of the gospel. That is our task in this life.

 

[wolfwint]

@Nehemiah6

Whatever!
let those who are ignorant be ignorant

But as we enjoy the gift of prophecy at our worship meetings
our confidence in modern day Pentecostals tongues
comes from the highest authority in the spiritual realm.

As you are preaching against God you cannot stop it and
are completely irrelevant.
We are experiencing the latter day outpouring of the Holy Spirit
as described by Joel and Peter and hundreds of thousands of
people throughout the world are complying with Acts 2:38 and
speaking in tongues every year.

God is not listening to unbelievers.
He is getting on with saving people and bringing them into
the body of Christ - the church of God.

If you would be right, Why then the teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as sign for to receive it speaking in tongues came up in 1900 in LA. And was not found before among christians?
To Take Joel 2 as Proof is takeing the Verses out of the context. The context from Joel 2 has to do with the Nation of Israel.
If you are right then it would be normal for all christians in all ages to recieve the Holy Spirit as it is recordet in Acts 2, but then I would also expect the the Holy Spirit would be Seen as a Fire tongue sitting on every believer as it is written in Acts 2,3.
If you are right, then we had not the pentecostal movement Starts in 1900, because there was no necessary for it, all christians would speaking in tongues before.
But it is not! Do you follow really the right Spirit? Ore merely the Angel of Light?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you follow really the right Spirit? Ore merely the Angel of Light?

wolfwint,
We should not take it that far, but the Angel of Light uses this issue to divide genuine Christians into two camps.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Changing the subject from the manifestation of kinds of tongues to the spiritual warfare we all face in our day and time ...

Right. Back to the OP. As I mentioned a part of the spiritual warfare is Satan and his evil angels sowing division and discord among Christians through differences in understanding tongues, or Calvinism vs Gospel truth, or any number of divisive issues.

Spiritual warfare is waging on many fronts, and all of them are meant to adversely affect the Christian, his attitude, his walk, and his service to God and Christ. Below are some of the attacks of the enemy, applying the principaL of DIVIDE AND CONQUER:

1. Conflict about Bible versions

2. Conflict about modes of worship -- traditional vs contemporary

3. Conflict about Christian music -- traditional vs worldly

4. Conflict about theologies and denominations

5. Conflict about interpretations of Bible prophecy

6. Conflict about loving the world vs loving the Father

Conflict means division, division means disunity, disunity means ineffectiveness for the work of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Speak2Me]

In The Revival Fellowship we have 100% praying
in tongues congregation as all are baptized in water
and in the Holy Spirit.
No confusion. One sign.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but you sir don't have a clue as to what's going on in your church.

The first century church had problems with Judiazers & gnostics, just to name a few.

And now, in the last days, you're telling us you have a 100% baptized in the Spirit church?!?

Only the saints in the upper room had that.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Right. Back to the OP. As I mentioned a part of the spiritual warfare is Satan and his evil angels sowing division and discord among Christians through differences in understanding tongues, or Calvinism vs Gospel truth, or any number of divisive issues.

Spiritual warfare is waging on many fronts, and all of them are meant to adversely affect the Christian, his attitude, his walk, and his service to God and Christ. Below are some of the attacks of the enemy, applying the principaL of DIVIDE AND CONQUER:

1. Conflict about Bible versions

2. Conflict about modes of worship -- traditional vs contemporary

3. Conflict about Christian music -- traditional vs worldly

4. Conflict about theologies and denominations

5. Conflict about interpretations of Bible prophecy

6. Conflict about loving the world vs loving the Father

Conflict means division, division means disunity, disunity means ineffectiveness for the work of the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 1 makes clear that division / contentions in the body of Christ is due to following men rather than the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1:

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


…


3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?


I wonder what this Board would look like if we kept these verses in mind, and actually kept our focus on our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, allowing Him to lead us in this life:

Romans 15:

5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

 

[Speak2Me]

If you would be right, Why then the teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as sign for to receive it speaking in tongues came up in 1900 in LA. And was not found before among christians?
To Take Joel 2 as Proof is takeing the Verses out of the context. The context from Joel 2 has to do with the Nation of Israel.
If you are right then it would be normal for all christians in all ages to recieve the Holy Spirit as it is recordet in Acts 2, but then I would also expect the the Holy Spirit would be Seen as a Fire tongue sitting on every believer as it is written in Acts 2,3.
If you are right, then we had not the pentecostal movement Starts in 1900, because there was no necessary for it, all christians would speaking in tongues before.
But it is not! Do you follow really the right Spirit? Ore merely the Angel of Light?

Joel 2 spoke about the church, because Jews & gentiles alike received it throughout the book of Acts.

True Christians of all ages can receive the Baptism. The reason they don't? UNBELIEF.

God won't give His good gifts to those who don't want them.

John the Baptist prophesied that Jesus would Baptize believers with the Holy Spirit.

Many modern churches don't believe this prophesy to be true.

Instead they've explained it away.

 

[stonesoffire]

He is the only person who just gets revelation so much that i know.Interpreting a few tongues at once, speaking a few tongues one after another.. he gave me his blessing and i used to talk to him s lot. He is one of very few people who blessed and helped me and bring me revelation and it literally gave me a change of heart. He was able to bring gifts to my attention i didnt know etc.

Am sorry I missed meeting him. Hopefully he'll read this and come back.

 

[celib]

reposting blog # 48

"Such ignorance is unbecoming of a Christian.

Acts 2 the day of Pentecost when the multitudes of thousands
heard 120 people inside an upper room all speaking in tongues
at the same time - "And how hear we every man in our own tongue,
wherein we were born?" Acts 2:8

How did a multitude of thousands hear 120 persons speaking in tongues
all at the same time distinctly in their own languages (17 in all)?
Because this was the first miracle of the gift of interpretation.

tongues, interpretation, followed by prophecy through Peter
1Corinthians 14 in action on the very first day."​

I pointed out that the proper translation for tongue in 1 Cor. is language, you are free to do what you want, its God that is responsible for the Scripture, it's man that translated it, have a good life. God bless

 

[Waggles]

Not trying to be disrespectful, but you sir don't have a clue as to what's going on in your church.
The first century church had problems with Judiazers & gnostics, just to name a few.
And now, in the last days, you're telling us you have a 100% baptized in the Spirit church?!?
Only the saints in the upper room had that.

What gobbledegook is this?
And you are being most disrespectful.
The Revival Fellowship preaches Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:15-20

Everybody is baptized in water and the Holy Spirit
(except for babies, toddlers and the very young)
but all who seek the Lord for themselves young and old
speak in tongues when they receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.

100% praying in tongues.
One sign for all. No confusion. No schisms.
These signs shall follow them that believe ...
Works for us.

 

[Ariel82]

So I have been studying about the things of the spirit and just wanted to kind of speak my piece about it.
First I wanted to understand what exactly is a spirit? Some might say it's the soul but I don't really think that's true, I think the soul is more like the true us not the us that was formed or influenced by this world or by our own mistakes and falings but the us that God knew before time began what we really look like and what we really sound like.
Maybe I am weird but Whenever I look at myself I feel like I am not really seeing me, like this fleshly body is just a shell and isn't at all what I really look like or sound like, I feel like my soul- the true me is completely different.
A spirit however seems to be spoken of several times in scripture as beings possibly demons but also notice how it is also spoken of as a state of being like the spirit of truth or say a spirit of virtue. I think that a spirit is something that can in fact be altered as one can transform from a spirit of anger to the spirit of love.

But apart from knowing and understanding what a spirit is which I still have much to understand in this matter what about spiritual warfare and for that matter what about the spiritual realm itself? What makes a person more prone to have top deal with spiritual warfare than someone else? Why do some excel in it while others struggle and are almost overwhelmed by it?
I have not yet found an answer as to why some are more prone to deal with it than others, it could simply be how some are more prone to receive dreams and visions or perhaps my other theory which is about doors.
I have met some Christians who are fascinated with the things of the spiritual but do not understand the things of the spiritual and I have had to warn them to have caution because the things of the spiritual are not all candy and rainbows there are doors that you do not want to open and if you do open them you may not be able to close them.

We open doors all the time we just don't realize it, when we are soaking in the scriptures we are opening all kinds of doors, doors of clarity, of peace, of love, of his spirit and his heart in general. When we pray we are open the door to him and letting him into our home, when we praise him and sing in the midst of despair we are opening a door of power and strength of life and hope in a seemingly lifeless and hopeless situation. But in the same manner there are Christians who unwittingly open doors for attacks because sometimes people can get more into the things of the spiritual than the things of God himself and the enemy loves to prey on such people. This of course is not to say that is the reason certain people deal with spiritual warfare but is a factor for some. There is also the fact that God has created in his body spiritual warriors, There is no rhyme or reason for his selection of such people at least for us because lets be honest understanding his reason for things is not exactly simple.
For instance I know better than to open doors for attacks yet I am by no means a stranger to spiritual warfare I have been attacked by demons more times than I can count, I don't really question why I just sort of roll with the punches. Yet in every encounter or attack I was never harmed and yes there were times when I really had to fight to overcome but in him I was able to. Which leads my to question from earlier why some can simply excel in these warfares and others just barely make it through. I noticed that some will go through these battles and come out stronger than before they went in while others are crippled and fearful and eventually become desperate for help.

My theory is that it all has to do with the relationship one has with God. I am by no means strong or special in any way but in every attack he and I have not just been victorious but we have always grown from them. I think the reason for that is the intimacy he and I share when I am in an attack I instinctively know what to do and how to overcome the situation and sometimes it's much harder than normal like that time when I was on my bed and suddenly a shadow figure rushed over to me cussing and yelling at me and I couldn't move and my tongue was tied.
In this instance I instinctively knew I had to call out to Jesus but clearly the demon didn't want me to do that but upon my tongue finally being able to say his name the demon vanished.

But another thing is that I never rely on my own strength and I think that is key, because when you try to fight with your own strength the cost is very steep you can come out of that battle far worse off than you were before and it might take a very long time to recover from it. I know that the things of the spiritual is not really a topic that the logical believer dives into much but in my studies I have seen that for every major event that happened n the bible whether that is the nt or ot there was a spiritual happening going on behind the veil that affected the physical realm, And so I think it is important for us understand how the spiritual works with the natural

I like logic. However I admit that the world is bigger than my mind can grasp and explain and that is when faith and trust in God comes in.

There is no "spirit of anger"

The "spirit of truth" spoken of in the Bible is the Holy spirit, it's just another name. Just like we call Jesus the Messiah or Lamb of God.

Spirits are like people. Our spirit or breathe of life of pneuma in the Old testament which is sometimes translated as soul is the real us. Angels both good from God and bad who were cast down from Heaven with Satan are spirits.

I can dig up Bible verses if needed.

What gets confusing is the Old testament refers to the true "us" as souls and the New testament uses the same concept but uses the word spirit instead because it wants to show the difference about how God views the soul versus how the Greeks and Romans view it.

The Ego also referred to by the Romans as soul is the human part of us that interacts with this world and a different concept from the Biblical meaning of soul/spirit.

Hopefully some of this makes sense.

You are in my prayers Blain, I hope God reveals His truths to you and that your heart remains humble and loving and able to receive God's love and grace. I give thanks that God has given you His love and that you share it so freely with others.

I know we don't talk much, but I find you an encouraging presence here on CC.

 

[Ariel82]

Tongues is not a "sign" that you are saved unless it's Biblical "speaking in tongues"

Which means 1. Its a known language of the earth

And 2.you have someone in the congregation who speaks it.

It's a spiritual gift and not all get it but just a part of the Body of Christ. Just like not all are given prophesy or the discernment of spirits,

Gobblegook...that is what many manifest and call tongues hen it's just demonic utterances often cursing God and worshiping demons in angelic language.

I watched one video where someone "spoke in tongues" and heard the names of a lot of pagan gods uttered like "Allah" and "Shiva"

 

[Ariel82]

I believe what happened in Pentecost is that all the people shouted with one voice the same message something like "praise God, Christ the Messiah has ascended into Heaven and has cleansed us of our sins" and angels carried their proclamation in whatever tongue/known language they shouted in to the ears of people who needed to hear.

I haven't read the whole thread, but just a few post before my own.

I believe that the gifts of God are for today. However I don't believe what many claim to be the gifts of God.
.to me many people make God to be a genie to grant wishes and the gifts He has entrusted us with to be a magic handbook that we can wave a wand and get whatever we want,

That is a demonic lie


The name and claim it doctrine is from the Enemy and not from God. Its gives people false hope in promises not found in the Bible without a lot of cherry picking of verses and twisting,

Does God promise you a pain free life if you only obey and do enough "good works"?


No that is old convenant thinking.

God promises you trials, rejection by the world and that He will be with you through it all.

God's apostles where beaten, thrown in prison. Jesus was crucified...God promises that His people will ensure similar hardships.

Are you willing to pickup that cross and walk with Him?

Are you willing to drink from the same cup He drank from?

Or will you eat of the candy coated ding pushed by unrighteius preachers who only want money,power and prestige?

Who will you listen to?

The preacher in the Armani suiit?

Or the homeless beggar on the street?

 

[wolfwint]

Joel 2 spoke about the church, because Jews & gentiles alike received it throughout the book of Acts.

True Christians of all ages can receive the Baptism. The reason they don't? UNBELIEF.

God won't give His good gifts to those who don't want them.

John the Baptist prophesied that Jesus would Baptize believers with the Holy Spirit.

Many modern churches don't believe this prophesy to be true.

Instead they've explained it away.

God is giving bis gifts according bis will. Neither in Acts 2, nor in 8, 10 ore 19 the believers First was taught you must believe that you can get the gift of speaking in tongue. The received it as a sign for others to see that they got the promissed Holy Spirit - that the jews could see that the Holy Spirit is given not only to geh News, but die all believers in Jesus Christ- Evers other teaching is man Made!
The biggest disunity among the followers of Jesus Christ came through the false teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Maby more false teachings came in the following time then. F.e. only in tongues speak christians are Saved, Only in tongues speaking christians are Real christians, wealth and health Gospel, Woman pastorship in the Church, Open for the ecomenism even with the RCC.
You Really will tell me that this is from the Holy Spirit.?

 

[wolfwint]

Joel 2 spoke about the church, because Jews & gentiles alike received it throughout the book of Acts.

True Christians of all ages can receive the Baptism. The reason they don't? UNBELIEF.

God won't give His good gifts to those who don't want them.

John the Baptist prophesied that Jesus would Baptize believers with the Holy Spirit.

Many modern churches don't believe this prophesy to be true.

Instead they've explained it away.

If you put Joel 2 for the church you ignore the scripture!

 

[davida]

Tongues are a gift not necessary for salvation, as such it can be accepted or not by each of us.

 

[gerty]

My God understands my English just fine.
As a matter of fact, He knows my heart and I do not have to say a word to be heard by Him.

i agree, God does know my heart, so why do people who go on about tongues think they have a direct line to God?

 

[notuptome]

i agree, God does know my heart, so why do people who go on about tongues think they have a direct line to God?

It is how they endeavor to convince themselves that they possess what they profess.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[gerty]

It is how they endeavor to convince themselves that they possess what they profess.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

ahhh yes, how they justification.