Pauls testimony concerning His vision and what he preached

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Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#1
Pauls testimony before aggripa after He is arrested and makes His appeal to ceasar. paul testifies of His " heavenly vision" and then says what he obediently began preaching to both Jew first and then Gentile. if we read entire chapters, most often the context of things we wonder about are there

1Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Thou art permitted to speak for thyself. Then Paul stretched forth the hand, and answered for himself:
2
I think myself happy, king Agrippa, because I shall answer for myself this day before thee touching all the things whereof I am accused of the Jews: 3Especially because I know thee to be expert in all customs and questions which are among the Jews: wherefore I beseech thee to hear me patiently.

4My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; 5Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. 6And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.8Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

9
I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. 11And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.


12
Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18To open their eyes, and to turn themfrom darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

19
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

22Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."



interestingly this is a good summary of His doctrine, it comes after all of His missionary travels, with Luke and mark, barnabus, demas ect, now he and Luke had been arrested along with many others because the persecutions under titus and nero had begun coming forth. paul says in the book of romans, that everything he says, is for this purpose

romans 15:17-18 "
I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.18For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, "


paul says he preached repentance turning to God, and doing works meet for repentance, says the purpose of all he said was to bring gentiles into obedience by both word and deed. so how do we now translate His doctrine, as good works are self salvation? how is it that paul only preached the cross, yet he says he said nothing but that wich is meant to bring people into obedience? the truth is that paul preached repentance, obedience, he also taught the truth about eternal judgement ( romans 2: 5-11,) he taught about the resurrection of both the righteous, and the wicked, judged according to thier deeds by Jesus Christ, he taught all of the same things Jesus taught only not as much, if you put peter and John, james together then you have the gospel taught by Jesus.


alot of arguing happens here, all im actually trying to get through is that the Bible, determines what the Bible says. we cant take One scripture from pauls testimony and then say thats everything He taught, clearly he had alot to say and all of it was very relevant both the grace and the repentance and obedience things. he did not teach a grace alone nothing else matters or applies because Jesus died for sin doctrine, he just simply doesnt teach that and to me, its extremely important that the things we learn and believe, are the things actually written in the Bible rather than the latest best selling explaination of what the bible says. if we believe opposite scripture, isnt it wise for us to change and instead of reject that knowledge in scripture, add it to the things we do have a grasp of.


God bless
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#2
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]All these verses are Paul except 1 by John

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."
[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."[/FONT]
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,259
431
83
#3
All these verses are Paul except 1 by John

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."




Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."


Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."


Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."


Speaking of Paul:

Pauls epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross gospel/doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defence of: The Post-Cross gospel/doctrine of faith.

The letters core message is: We are justified, that is to say: Declared Rigtheous before God. Through Faith in the finished sin atoning redemptive work of Jesus the Christ. Not in our own good works or law keeping.

The law declares men guilty, exposes & condemns. Mans blessings come from God on the basis of faith in God & in His Son

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 2:16 A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#4
1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”


1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."



Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!”



Speaking of Paul:

Pauls epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross gospel/doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defence of: The Post-Cross gospel/doctrine of faith.

The letters core message is: We are justified, that is to say: Declared Rigtheous before God. Through Faith in the finished sin atoning redemptive work of Jesus the Christ. Not in our own good works or law keeping.

The law declares men guilty, exposes & condemns. Mans blessings come from God on the basis of faith in God & in His Son

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 2:16 A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
SO everything Yahshua/Jesus said pre Sacrifice is done away? and now Paul's teachings are the true teachings of messiah?

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”


John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"



Mat 23:23, "“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you tithe the mint and the anise and the cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion and the belief. These need to have been done, without neglecting the others.”

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."



John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 - poimén)."
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#5
Is Paul your father?

1 Corinthians 4:15


New International Version
Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.


New Living Translation
For even if you had ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, you have only one spiritual father. For I became your father in Christ Jesus when I preached the Good News to you.


English Standard Version
For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.


Berean Study Bible
Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.


Berean Literal Bible
For if you should have ten thousand guardians in Christ, yet not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


New American Standard Bible
For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.


King James Bible
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Holman Christian Standard Bible
For you can have 10,000 instructors in Christ, but you can't have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.


International Standard Version
You may have 10,000 mentors who work for the Messiah, but not many fathers. For in the Messiah Jesus I became your father through the gospel.


NET Bible
For though you may have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, because I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.


New Heart English Bible
For though you have ten thousand tutors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, I became your father through the Good News.


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For if you should have 10,000 instructors in The Messiah, however, there are not many fathers, for in Yeshua The Messiah I have begotten you by The Gospel.


GOD'S WORD® Translation
You may have countless Christian guardians, but you don't have many [spiritual] fathers. I became your father in the Christian life by telling you the Good News about Christ Jesus.


New American Standard 1977
For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.


Jubilee Bible 2000
For though ye may have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet ye shall not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


King James 2000 Bible
For though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have you not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


American King James Version
For though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have you not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


American Standard Version
For though ye have ten thousand tutors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I begat you through the gospel.


Douay-Rheims Bible
For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the gospel, I have begotten you.


Darby Bible Translation
For if ye should have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the glad tidings.


English Revised Version
For though ye should have ten thousand tutors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I begat you through the gospel.


Webster's Bible Translation
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Weymouth New Testament
For even if you were to have ten thousand spiritual instructors--for all that you could not have several fathers. It is I who in Christ Jesus became your father through the Good News.


World English Bible
For though you have ten thousand tutors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, I became your father through the Good News.


Young's Literal Translation
for if a myriad of child-conductors ye may have in Christ, yet not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, through the good news, I -- I did beget you;


Matthew 23:9


New International Version
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.


New Living Translation
And don't address anyone here on earth as 'Father,' for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father.


English Standard Version
And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.


Berean Study Bible
And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.


Berean Literal Bible
And call no one your father on the earth; for One is your Father, who is in heaven.


New American Standard Bible
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.


King James Bible
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


Holman Christian Standard Bible
Do not call anyone on earth your father, because you have one Father, who is in heaven.


International Standard Version
And don't call anyone on earth 'Father,' because you have only one Father, the one in heaven.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#6
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#7
Speaking of Paul:

Pauls epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross gospel/doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defence of: The Post-Cross gospel/doctrine of faith.

The letters core message is: We are justified, that is to say: Declared Rigtheous before God. Through Faith in the finished sin atoning redemptive work of Jesus the Christ. Not in our own good works or law keeping.

The law declares men guilty, exposes & condemns. Mans blessings come from God on the basis of faith in God & in His Son

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 2:16 A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

uh huh

well you have already made it more than clear you believe there are two different gospels in the thread you began a few days back 'How man gospels are there?'

how do you see the OT system as a doctrine of works? it was a sacrificial system...not a 'works' system

as it is, it still required faith and Abraham was saved by faith PRIOR to the sacrificial system

Paul was correcting the creeping in of the old covenant by Judaizers regarding circumcision as part of what is needed even if you were a Gentile. Paul clearly defines the perimeters of both covenants and if people would only study the OT and not just the new, they would get that...they would see that.

much of the NT was written to counter error and to instruct in correct practices

Paul never states the law has been done away with. He states the law is still in effect but we are no longer condemned by it if we are in Christ

not the quite the same as a total denouncement of the law

and here again are the verses already posted to you in response (Shamah)

Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is [FONT=&quot]justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, “[FONT=&quot]Are we then doing away with the Law[/FONT] through the faith? By no means! Rather, [FONT=&quot]we establish the Law[/FONT]![/FONT]
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#8
All these verses are Paul except 1 by John

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."




Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."


Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."


Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

yes those verses are, but you have to look at the context of what he is explaining. some have an idea that one scripture says this one thing and another scriptuire then contradicts the other, but truthfully there is something being explained by paul, like often happens here, a person can say something with 2 paragraphs, and if another person takjes one sentance out , that one sentance isnt actually whats being said. for instance dealing with paul, people do this


ephesians 2 : 8-9 " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. ""


they will then find similar sentances from pauls other letters and then explain How paul taught this and only this, and it means theres no responsability for us to repent of sin and obey God, because then its not Grace. " or something along those lines that make a person think " well if this is true, then repentance is a work of the flesh and a boast before God"


but the issue is that the sentances are taken from the context of the points paul is making, for instance there in ephesians, that single statement from paul, is not a summary of everything he is saying, its only a point, a buildin block that he is establishing making His point. in earnest anyone, an athiest cant take single scriptures out of the context the bible provides them in, and make terribly erred doctrines.


the very next verse there says



10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."


Pauls doctrine is like Jesus doctrine paul is saying " God has forgiven us our trespassed against His law, and made a better way for us , repent and believe the Gospel. pauls teachings on Grace, are true and great but we have to take them by chapters rather than verses. he is making complex points and if we see just the words we want in his letters , its easliy misunderstood.


pauls always speaks in his letter of Gods mercy given to us through Jesus and the Gospel, and He always speaks of us repenting and doing the things taught us, he uses the imagery of a new life we find in Christ. we died and are raised agaoin" this message is telling us God sees you as a new creation, your sins are washed away by the Blood of the Lamb Jesus Christ ! Now....in pauls words

ephesians 5 " Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."


pauls letters are the same messages Jesus sent out " God Has forgiven us by the Grace Jesus has provided through His death, and we are empowered to live as children of God through His resurrection, which sends Him to the throne, and the Holy spirit to His followers.

paul gets a bad wrap by the "authors" of modern chritianity, he always makes a very clear and urgent point about repentance of sin, and obedience to God through Jesus Christ Our Lord.


He also spoke so much about the law its crazy, he tells us things of the Law and shows us the true meaning of those things like passover, feasts and holy days, ordinances and all those things. paul is important to understanding the Gospel. i think its telling that paulo was first a pharisee, who says he was blameless according to the Law of moses, and yet still refers to Himself as the worst of sinners. again saying he was blameless when he was a pharisee according to the Lawe of moses. things like this is what i mean paul is actually saying something making an important point that isnt found in a single scripture...think of what pauls saying instead of looking at the single scriptures.

philippians 3 "
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, ( john 4:23-24) and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.


thats who saul was befor conversion. this is the apostle paul after meeting Jesus.


7
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."


theres plenty in pauls words instructions of whats expected of us who have received Grace for this purpose. pauls gospel was meant for this purpose

titus 2 " For the grace of God that bringeth salvation ( john 1:12-17)hath appeared to all men, ( john 3:16-17)12Teaching us( matthew 28:18-20) that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, (matthew 16:24 )we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."





 
Jun 1, 2016
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#9
Speaking of Paul:

Pauls epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross gospel/doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defence of: The Post-Cross gospel/doctrine of faith."





The letters core message is: We are justified, that is to say: Declared Rigtheous before God. Through Faith in the finished sin atoning redemptive work of Jesus the Christ. Not in our own good works or law keeping.

The law declares men guilty, exposes & condemns. Mans blessings come from God on the basis of faith in God & in His Son

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 2:16 A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Pauls epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross gospel/doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defence of: The Post-Cross gospel/doctrine of faith.


so then there are 2 different gospels according to You? well thats a new one anyways......
naw, wrong about galatians...., the issue was judaism, the teachers of the Lawof moses that Jesus had to deal with and never believed His words, and ultimately had him crucified, they were still troubling His doctrine and His disciples you have gone way far from truth friend., those preaching the mosaic Law were troubling christians sayinbg they needed to be cuircumcized and adhere to the law of moses its why paul adresses this in so many epistles. it seems you are opposed to Jesus words vigorously, can i ask you honestly why are you so opposed to the things Jesus Christ who died for you taught His disciples?

are you afraid Jesus was speaking condemnation to those who loved and followed Him because he teaches us to turn away from sin and return to our true purpose to act and walk in Gods will and not our own? its puzzling why the grace crowd is so immensly opposed to the things thier savior who suffered and died, said.


Here is Jesus teaching salvation by Faith before the Cross, something he did often " believe in me, trust in me. follow me, have faith in God He sent me, believe my words.......if you have faith in Jesus, why are his words not acceptable?

Luke 7 "And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.49And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."



its funny because Jesus taught Faith in God and in Him all along, you cant seem to get past the jospeh prince lens to see that paul taught what you would call " the pre cross something required of you doctrine the same as Jesus, you simply omit it though, since you chose galatians to distort why does paul say all he says of the law and being saved by Grace and that jew and gentile are the exact same now to God, in the first part of the letter and yet he teaches this like he always teaches in His epistles.?

heres first to show that the issue was not the Gospel taught by Jesus but the Mosaic Law,

ch 5 " Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law." ( Jesus didnt teach his dicsiples circumcision of the flesh, he taught those who were trusting in and teaching the law, to keep every command of it just like paul does here) heres what you will not accept that paul taught in every epistle

galatians 5 " This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."



in other words all of those sinful actions he names, we have to stop doing those things " repent of sins" or we will not inherit the Kingdom of God ( the kingdom of God you claim paul wasnt teaching yet He claims was his doctrine. Jesus taught the same things He taught Gods grace has come, repent and believe in Me, im Here to save you all. trust in me, believe me God sent me to save you all.


paul is teaching " Jesus came to save us all from the sinners debt of death , and has given us the new covenant to follow into eternal Life" paul is saying like Jesus " God has not condemned us for our sins, now, go and sin no more" its just that you cant see it because you are too insistant that Jesus words dont apply to the Gospel. now you have come to the conclusion there are 2 different Gospels that offers a new Life as children of God? one Jesus taught and then a whole different Gospel that has no work whatsoever for you to actually do? how is that what paul teaches though when he teaches so much about what were commanded to do? does the gospel change again to a third gospel when paul stops preaching and then it just ends up whoever believes whatever, thier speaking the gospel? like i dont really get why, you are so stuck on removing the Words of God from the gospel and then calling it a different one. doesnt it bother you that paul taught so many things your doctrine omits?


its sad to see people refuse to accept thier Lords Words, and label them as null and void because He loved you enough to die for you. its a strange reason to then omit the gospel the same one who Loved you, spoke to save you........there is only the One way friend im sorry its hard to see for you. I hope some day you ask yourself why its so important for you to disregard the Lords teachings, when He taught them and said they are to save you and give you eternal Life.......never does make sense why those are the words people want to omit from salvation...the very words that offer it.


john 8 :
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. <<< dont be those guys

john 8 " Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. .......45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. <<<< dont be those guys

john 8 " Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death <<<< dont be those Guys...

matthew 24:35 " .
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. <<<

john 14:6 " Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.


hebrews 5:9 " And being made perfect, he became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

hebrews 13:8 " Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

always the same, then, now, and tomorrow. 1 savior, One faith, One lord over all. Jesus Christ. Who paul followed and was sent by.