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Thread: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    suppose we interpreted the actual words and meaning of scripture this way
    ((you are familiar with how people read the Bible and actually understand the words as though they have meaning, expressing ideas, right?))

    suppose when we read the Bible, we had sweet potato pie in mind. we arbitrarily change the definition of words from verse to verse until we make whatever verse we're reading be about sweet-potato pie.

    And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about. And under the brim of it round about there were knops compassing it, ten in a cubit, compassing the sea round about: the knops were cast in two rows, when it was cast.

    "and he made" - people make food in kitchens
    "molten" - the sweet potato is heated in the oven until it becomes molten
    "sea" - water is used in the recipe
    "ten cubits" - sweet potato is cut into cubes before it is cooked down, and you can stack them in rows of ten
    "one brim to another" - you fill up the whole baking pan from brim to brim
    "it was round all about" - pies are round, we use a round baking pan
    "height was 5 cubits" - a typical sweet potato pie is close to 5cm tall
    "a line 30 cubits did compass it" - 30/10 = 3 approximately 3.1 almost pi which sounds like pie
    "under the brim" - we put a golden flakey crust on top so the tasty yams are "under" it
    "under the brim" - we don't put too much pie mixture in the baking pan because we don't want it to overflow; it must be under the brim of the pan
    "knops" - the pie doesn't cook perfectly flat it is a little lumpy like knobs which is spelled almost the same as knops
    "ten in a cubit" - ten centimeters is a tenth of a meter and there are 10mm in a cm and remember we have a baking pan for our sweet potato pie that is approximately 5cm tall which is 1/2 of 10 and 1 is the first digit of 10
    "compassing the sea" - the molten sweet potato mixture is encompassed by the baking pan
    "the knops where cast" - casting is pouring hot metal into a mold like hot sweet potato mixture in a baking pan
    "in two rows when it was cast" - most ovens have two racks inside, and we bake the sweet potato pie in the center of the oven between the two oven racks


    please critique what i've done.

    I should probably make a sweet potatoe pie. I have never made one, but if the Bible is so insistent on it, I should probably make it.

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    1 Timothy 6

    20O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”21which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.
    Grace be with you.




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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    circumference = pi*diameter

    circumference / diameter = pi

    what you did is:

    circumference / diameter = X

    X didn't equal pi so you did

    X*(a ratio) = pi

    you found an arbitrary X, and you had pi, so you solved that for the ratio you 'needed'
    you could literally do that for any X

    this is not significant at all.
    I found a ratio that was encoded in the word "ten" in 1 Kings 7:23 and in "round about" in 1 Kings 7:24. Two verses in a row and the first word is dealing with the diameter of the circle and the second phrase is about the circumference unless you are denying this. If this ratio is divided into the diameter (10) we will get 9.549549549549547. If we take the circumference of the circle (30) and divided it by the diameter which was adjusted according to the ratio encoded in the word "ten" we get 3.1415....

    circumference / diameter = x???? are you arguing that this is not equal to pi? The fact is that 30/10 = 3 and does not equal Pi. That is the whole point!

    circumference / diameter = Pi

    30 / 9.549549549549547 = 3.1415..

    We have a second witness in verses 24 just looked at from the perspective of the circumference "round about". Again we use the ration encoded in this phrase of 111/106 to adjust the circumference 30 x (111/106) = 31.41509433962264. Divide this adjusted circumference of the diameter (10) and we get 3.14159. Two witnesses in two verses in a row.

    It doesn't matter if you examine it from the perspective the diameter in verse 23 or the circumference which is referenced in verse 24, you can calculate PI unless you are denying that (30/10) x (111/106) does not equal 3.1415....If so you aren't a very good "scientist."

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    suppose we interpreted the actual words and meaning of scripture this way
    ((you are familiar with how people read the Bible and actually understand the words as though they have meaning, expressing ideas, right?))

    suppose when we read the Bible, we had sweet potato pie in mind. we arbitrarily change the definition of words from verse to verse until we make whatever verse we're reading be about sweet-potato pie.

    And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about. And under the brim of it round about there were knops compassing it, ten in a cubit, compassing the sea round about: the knops were cast in two rows, when it was cast.

    "and he made" - people make food in kitchens
    "molten" - the sweet potato is heated in the oven until it becomes molten
    "sea" - water is used in the recipe
    "ten cubits" - sweet potato is cut into cubes before it is cooked down, and you can stack them in rows of ten
    "one brim to another" - you fill up the whole baking pan from brim to brim
    "it was round all about" - pies are round, we use a round baking pan
    "height was 5 cubits" - a typical sweet potato pie is close to 5cm tall
    "a line 30 cubits did compass it" - 30/10 = 3 approximately 3.1 almost pi which sounds like pie
    "under the brim" - we put a golden flakey crust on top so the tasty yams are "under" it
    "under the brim" - we don't put too much pie mixture in the baking pan because we don't want it to overflow; it must be under the brim of the pan
    "knops" - the pie doesn't cook perfectly flat it is a little lumpy like knobs which is spelled almost the same as knops
    "ten in a cubit" - ten centimeters is a tenth of a meter and there are 10mm in a cm and remember we have a baking pan for our sweet potato pie that is approximately 5cm tall which is 1/2 of 10 and 1 is the first digit of 10
    "compassing the sea" - the molten sweet potato mixture is encompassed by the baking pan
    "the knops where cast" - casting is pouring hot metal into a mold like hot sweet potato mixture in a baking pan
    "in two rows when it was cast" - most ovens have two racks inside, and we bake the sweet potato pie in the center of the oven between the two oven racks


    please critique what i've done.
    The difference between what you listed above and what I listed are facts from the King James Bible.

    Fact 1: the word "ten" is the measurement of the diameter of the "sea" in cubits.

    Fact 2: the word "ten" in 1 Kings 7:23 is the 111th occurrence in the 106th verse. THAT VERY VERSE BOTH NUMBERS!

    Fact 3: (30/10) x (111/106) = 3.1415....

    Fact 4: the word "round" (1st occurrence" in 1 Kings 7:24 is the 111th occurrence of this word in the King James Bible.

    Fact 5: the phrase "round about" (1st occurrence) in verse 24 is the 106th occurrence of the this phrase in the Bible.

    Fact 6: this bears repeating because it obvious you don't get it: (30/10) x (111/106) = 3.1415

    Fact 7: the phrase "thirty cubits" in 1 Kings 7:23 is the 7th occurrence of this phrase in the Kings James Bible.

    Fact 8: the word "cubit" in verse 24 in the phrase "ten in a cubit" is the 22nd occurrence of this word in the King James Bible and the word "cubit" in that phrase is referring to the "thirty cubits" of verse 23.

    Fact 9: 22/7 = 3.142 rounded

    Fact 10: Chuck Missler (who was an engineer) used the exact same ratio and method to calculate Pi except he used Hebrew gematria.

    Hidden Codes in the Bible:: The Value of Pi – Chuck Missler – Koinonia House


    Which of these facts do you dispute? The first 9 facts I listed were facts before I was born, before you were born, and before computers were invented! Your many posts in a row reminds me of when you disputed the word counts that I posted in the King James Bible thread saying my counts were wrong. I responded to every one of them and showed they were accurate and you were as silent as a church mouse after that on the subject.

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Was the circumference of the bowl 30 cubits or 30.14159 cubits?

    Are there words in the ancient Hebrew language to express 0.14159?
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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Was the circumference of the bowl 30 cubits or 30.14159 cubits?

    Are there words in the ancient Hebrew language to express 0.14159?
    You can read right? I was "thirty cubits" around and "ten" cubits across. Was the measurement of the diameter the inner, outer or center to center who knows and it isn't relevant to the fact that the ratio of (111/106) is encoded in both the word "ten" in verse 23 and the phrase "round about" in verse 24. We can both agree that God knows Pi and how to calculate the circumference of a circle. I will ask you again, what false information did I give in my original post?

    God put a stumbling block in 1 Kings 7:23 for the "wise" so he bring their "wisdom" to "nothing" (1 Corinthians 1: 19) and then elegantly encoded Pi to 5 digits in the very verse that the "heathen mathematicians and scientists" (I would hope you are a christian mathematician) of this world use to discredit the word of God.

    ("thirty"/"ten") x (111/106) = 3.1415..!!! It is that simple. This is found in verse 23 and 24!

    "...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." 2 Corinthians 13:1
    Last edited by James37; January 11th, 2018 at 08:32 PM.

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Some of your word counts in fact were wrong, and I stopped reading that thread for the same reason that looks like is going to be the case here. You don't seem to comprehend what I'm trying to communicate to you: you are not using any kind of consistent methodology. What makes you decide to count to 111 and count to 106 and divide these numbers and multiply them by 3? WHY would you look at the text and decide, from the text itself, that this is what should be done? When you have an answer to that question, can you apply the same reason to another verse and do exactly the same thing you did to this one and come up with a meaningful result?
    Until you can do that, you're only playing around with numbers arbitrarily and arranging them somehow to make them look like the picture you already had in mind before you started messing about.

    It's the difference between saying, I'm going to divide different circles circumference by their diameter and see if I get a consistent result for many different circles, and saying I want an area equal to 17 so I'm going to juggle numbers around until I come up with 2.326213245 then I shall call that a radius, no matter how I actually came up with it, and declare that I've found a circle.
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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Your numbers make absolutely non sense to me. What's this fascination with the number 37? Seems to me that you are just picking certain numbers in order to come up with your desired equation. Either way, this exercise seems to be a colossal waste of time.
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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Some of your word counts in fact were wrong, and I stopped reading that thread for the same reason that looks like is going to be the case here. You don't seem to comprehend what I'm trying to communicate to you: you are not using any kind of consistent methodology. What makes you decide to count to 111 and count to 106 and divide these numbers and multiply them by 3? WHY would you look at the text and decide, from the text itself, that this is what should be done? When you have an answer to that question, can you apply the same reason to another verse and do exactly the same thing you did to this one and come up with a meaningful result?
    Until you can do that, you're only playing around with numbers arbitrarily and arranging them somehow to make them look like the picture you already had in mind before you started messing about.

    It's the difference between saying, I'm going to divide different circles circumference by their diameter and see if I get a consistent result for many different circles, and saying I want an area equal to 17 so I'm going to juggle numbers around until I come up with 2.326213245 then I shall call that a radius, no matter how I actually came up with it, and declare that I've found a circle.
    Again can you not read? I will make this as simple as possible since you are a "mathematician." If you count from Genesis 1:1 to 1 Kings 7:23 you will find that it is the 111th time the word "ten" occurs in the Bible. That verse! Are you with me so far? The word "ten" sometimes occurs more than once in the same verse such as in Genesis 32:15. This is one reason why you were all messed with the counts in the King James Bible thread. (my counts are right and I challenge you to prove otherwise here in this thread or there). Since the word "ten" occurs more than once in some verses such as Genesis 45:23, that makes 1 Kings 7:23 the 106th verse that the word "ten" occurs in. I used the same "methodology" to show the patterns of 37 and 7 in the 'King James Bible' thread I started and the 'Significance of the Number 37 in the Bible.' Then I read where the Hebrew gematria of the word for circumference in that language yielded the numbers 111 and 106. Then the light bulb turned on and I thought to myself that is also in the King James Bible in that very verse. Furthermore, God showed it to me again in the very next verse. Let us apply this "methodology" to Isaiah 40:22 and we get 22/7 and these numbers are connected with God sitting on a circle. Coincidence? I don't think so.

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Again, there is a certain kind of OCD that gets obsessed with numbers in strange ways. Psychosis can also appear when either numbers or letters become indicative of something they aren’t. And when the person is brought back from psychosis, they fail to understand their own methodology and how they arrived at their conclusions.

    I truly believe that certain people in this forum, under the guise of Biblical knowledge, are actually having some kind of neurotic or psychotic breakdown. I had hoped this nonsense was over, but apparently it has started up again. We are best to ignore him, since he does not respond to help. The trouble is that naive people tend to gravitate towards this kind of insanity, thinking they have found some kind of “new” revelation. Not sure why the old revelation - Jesus who died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead, type of “old” revelation. Does this OP even mention Jesus, ever? I am not going to go back and look!

    I have more than a little mathematics under my belt, including calculus and statistics. I can understand the real math on this forum. Well, sometimes PH goes a bit over my head, I cannot tell a lie! These kinds of posts are nonsense without any basis in mathematics or the original languages, which I also speak.

    We won’t even get into the hermeneutics of applying random numeral combinations, forcing them to say something they don’t, and applying it back to cultures which did not have mathematics, beyond basic arithmetic. No computers or search engines leading to websites designed and maintained by disturbed people making up stuff about the Bible.

    Yes, God could make up a numerical pattern and encase it in the words. But, this OP has utterly failed to show that, in pages and pages of faulty mathematics.
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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by tourist View Post
    Your numbers make absolutely non sense to me. What's this fascination with the number 37? Seems to me that you are just picking certain numbers in order to come up with your desired equation. Either way, this exercise seems to be a colossal waste of time.
    I will refer you to another thread titled 'The Significance of the Number 37 in the Bible' which discusses this. In the original post of this thread I posted some links that contain information about numbers in the Bible and the number 37 in particular. As far as this being a waste of time I will refer you to Proverbs 18:13 since it is evident that you have not heard the full matter and seem to be drawing a conclusion already.

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by James37 View Post
    Then the light bulb turned on and I thought to myself
    Yes, we know.
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    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    Again, there is a certain kind of OCD that gets obsessed with numbers in strange ways. Psychosis can also appear when either numbers or letters become indicative of something they aren’t. And when the person is brought back from psychosis, they fail to understand their own methodology and how they arrived at their conclusions.

    I truly believe that certain people in this forum, under the guise of Biblical knowledge, are actually having some kind of neurotic or psychotic breakdown. I had hoped this nonsense was over, but apparently it has started up again. We are best to ignore him, since he does not respond to help. The trouble is that naive people tend to gravitate towards this kind of insanity, thinking they have found some kind of “new” revelation. Not sure why the old revelation - Jesus who died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead, type of “old” revelation. Does this OP even mention Jesus, ever? I am not going to go back and look!

    I have more than a little mathematics under my belt, including calculus and statistics. I can understand the real math on this forum. Well, sometimes PH goes a bit over my head, I cannot tell a lie! These kinds of posts are nonsense without any basis in mathematics or the original languages, which I also speak.

    We won’t even get into the hermeneutics of applying random numeral combinations, forcing them to say something they don’t, and applying it back to cultures which did not have mathematics, beyond basic arithmetic. No computers or search engines leading to websites designed and maintained by disturbed people making up stuff about the Bible.

    Yes, God could make up a numerical pattern and encase it in the words. But, this OP has utterly failed to show that, in pages and pages of faulty mathematics.
    I guess you agree that (30/10) x (111/106) does not equal 3.1415... too LOL! At least Chuck Missler gets it so I am not in bad company.
    Last edited by James37; January 11th, 2018 at 09:21 PM.

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Yes, we know.
    Better than being in darkness like you!

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by James37 View Post
    Better than being in darkness like you!
    Yes, we know you think this of others as well. Very saddening to witness. You're happy to think of others as lost and in darkness. That tells the whole story.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Yes, we know you think this of others as well. Very saddening to witness. You're happy to think of others as lost and in darkness. That tells the whole story.
    I have dealt with you before to the point I had to add you to the ignore list. If you take issue with something I posted on this thread then state your case and I will answer. The same goes for Angela5351....I guess she is taking a break from talking about the word of faith movement wowing the charismatics with her Greek.

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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by James37 View Post
    I guess you disagree that (30/10) x (111/106) does not equal 3.1415... too LOL! At least Chuck Missler gets it so I am not in bad company.

    First, I am going to disagree with your mathematics. If you actually did the computation up above to the 10th decimal place, you will find that it does NOT equal Pi. (Actually taking it to the third decimal place would suffice!)

    30/10 x (111/106) = 3.1415094339

    Whereas, Pi, is actually, to the 10 decimal point: 3.1459026538

    So, your so called precise mathematical proof is WRONG! This is basic arthimetic that I guess you and Chuck do not know how to do. Now, if you want to be in the company of someone who cannot do basic arithmetic, that is your choice. But stop quoting him as knowledgeable in basic math. (We won’t even get into exegesis!)

    I was actually going to address how you randomly forced “111” and “106” into your equation, from basically no where. But, the point has been proved, simply by going to 3 decimal places. Did you know that Pi has been calculated to a milion decimal points and beyond? That is real math, for whatever it is worth.

    It would behoove you to take a few basic math courses, so you can understand the difference between the answer of your equation, and the actual numbers in the decimals points of Pi. Your scenerio is completely false. Because in real math the decimal places count!

    Then again, maybe take a few course in Biblical hermeneutics, to learn how to properly exegete and interpret the Bible. Your methodology most resembles mental illness. Here’s a link for you in case you don’t believe me. Or, just google is yourself. Pi is NOT 3.1415 as you have put above.

    https://www.joyofpi.com/pi.html
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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by James37 View Post
    I have dealt with you before to the point I had to add you to the ignore list. If you take issue with something I posted on this thread then state your case and I will answer. The same goes for Angela5351....I guess she is taking a break from talking about the word of faith movement wowing the charismatics with her Greek.

    Lucky someone cares enough about false doctrines and wolves deceiving the sheep to call false teachers out.

    At your service,
    Angela

    (Wrong mathematics gladly taken on, too!)
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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by James37 View Post
    I have dealt with you before to the point I had to add you to the ignore list.
    Yes, I know, you cannot handle being exposed so to retaliate you put those who do on ignore, then you obviously take them off because you wonder what they could be saying because what they are saying is light.

    Then when you're shown your error by the same you call the person lost.

    I highly respect Angela53510. You should too.

    So how is it that you're following a woman named Donna who made a Bible program to count numbers? How is that going for you, seeing you're trapped in a never ending cycle of chasing numbers, and not Christ?
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    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Default Re: THE NUMBER PI IN THE BIBLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela53510 View Post
    First, I am going to disagree with your mathematics. If you actually did the computation up above to the 10th decimal place, you will find that it does NOT equal Pi. (Actually taking it to the third decimal place would suffice!)

    30/10 x (111/106) = 3.1415094339

    Whereas, Pi, is actually, to the 10 decimal point: 3.1459026538

    So, your so called precise mathematical proof is WRONG! This is basic arthimetic that I guess you and Chuck do not know how to do. Now, if you want to be in the company of someone who cannot do basic arithmetic, that is your choice. But stop quoting him as knowledgeable in basic math. (We won’t even get into exegesis!)

    I was actually going to address how you randomly forced “111” and “106” into your equation, from basically no where. But, the point has been proved, simply by going to 3 decimal places. Did you know that Pi has been calculated to a milion decimal points and beyond? That is real math, for whatever it is worth.

    It would behoove you to take a few basic math courses, so you can understand the difference between the answer of your equation, and the actual numbers in the decimals points of Pi. Your scenerio is completely false. Because in real math the decimal places count!

    Then again, maybe take a few course in Biblical hermeneutics, to learn how to properly exegete and interpret the Bible. Your methodology most resembles mental illness. Here’s a link for you in case you don’t believe me. Or, just google is yourself. Pi is NOT 3.1415 as you have put above.

    https://www.joyofpi.com/pi.html
    It is called a rational approximation of Pi, but I guess they didn't reach you that in "calculus."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximations_of_π

    Oh by the way , Pi is 3.14159.... and not 3.1459...like you have posted.
    Last edited by James37; January 11th, 2018 at 09:47 PM.

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