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Thread: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I am not talking about spiritual. I am talking about the law.

    You claimed the law (physical doing) kept them free from sin. Because they thought of God. I am sure they thought the same thing too. But they were wrong.
    Again, had they followed God's Instructions and not created their own, their understanding would have been opened. But because they didn't, "their foolish hearts were darkened."

    Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    Zechariahs chose differently and his understanding was opened.

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    The law of God is far Deeper, and far Greater than the law of moses. Although the law of God contains the law of moses. (However, the law of moses has things in it, which were for Israel only)

    No one here has kep the law of moses. Which means they have definantly not kept the law of God (since it is far greater and complete)

    The law of God is kept by the law of love (love God./ and you neighbor as yourself) if you do this, you will not break the law of God (or The moral law of moses)

    You do not keep either law by your own power. Or by your own will (you can not keep it as it is) the only way you can keep it (and not perfectly) is as paul said, by seeking the things of the spirit. Not the flesh.(IE following the 2 laws Christ gave in the law of Love, ie serving others, even them that HATE you. And putting your needs on the back burner and relying on God to take care of your needs)


    moses never create law, OT is the law of God, NT is the law of God.

    We have Holy Spirit to help us understand the principle law of God, It is Love God and love other.

    When adult ask direction from Los angeles to New York, we only need to give him GPS, It Will help him with the direction, we do not need the detail, because GPS help him.

    Holy Spirit is like GPS. Help us to understand the law of love. Love mean not kill the love one.
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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveGodForever View Post
    I see, I did not think so. It is ok maybe you can pray about it.
    I will definitely pray about it. I am sitting in a messianic Jewish service right now and I can ask my brothers and sisters to pray For you as well.

    I told the Rabbi the same things i have written in this thread and we are in agreement. We should worship God everyday.

    Anyway. Service is still happening so I probably should pay more attention.

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    Again, had they followed God's Instructions and not created their own, their understanding would have been opened. But because they didn't, "their foolish hearts were darkened."

    Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    Zechariahs chose differently and his understanding was opened.
    If they had understood grace, they would have seen, They thought law was a means to salvation, and what made them holy, and seperate from the filthy sameritans and gentiles.


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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    I will definitely pray about it. I am sitting in a messianic Jewish service right now and I can ask my brothers and sisters to pray For you as well. I told the Rabbi the same things i have written in this thread and we are in agreement. We should worship God everyday. Anyway. Service is still happening so I probably should pay more attention.
    To make every day the "Sabbath" as it is impossible, nobody can set apart every day as holy/set apart to YHWH. 1. Only YHWH can set apart a day. 2. We have work, chores, errands, etc. While mowing the lawn, doing dishes, cleaning the bathroom, etc are not sin, they are also not the will of YHWH thus doing these things is not the will of YHWH, the 7th day Sabbath is set aside for the will of YHWH. Any who claim to set aside every day are not being honest and probably don't set aside any day as they clearly don't understand what it means.

    Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

    Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

    This is why Yahshua says:


    Mat 23:8, “But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi, (master)’ for One is your Master, the Messiah, and you are all brothers.”

    because only One can give Instructions.
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    Hiz Temp acct.

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    yeah don't have time for debate. see most of yall on another thread. if anyone wants to have an actual conversation, you can pm me. thanks Marcelo, its been interesting to ponder and discuss.
    Actually there is no debate. There is no mention of the Sabbath in Romans 14. To assert it to is to assume. If Paul meant Sabbath he would had said it.
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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelo View Post
    Another evidence that "Law of God" (Lord) means the same as "Law of Moses":

    2 CH 31:2,3
    2Hezekiah assigned the priests and Levites to divisions—each of them according to their duties as priests or Levites—to offer burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, to minister, to give thanks and to sing praises at the gates of the Lord’s dwelling. 3The king contributed from his own possessions for the morning and evening burnt offerings and for the burnt offerings on the Sabbaths, at the New Moons and at the appointed festivals as written in the Law of the Lord.

    According to Sabbatarians:

    LAW OF GOD = TEN COMMANDMENTS
    LAW OF MOSES = THE OTHER 603 LAWS

    TRUE or FALSE?


    Sabbatarians say that the term "LAW OF GOD" refers exclusively to the Ten Commandments, while "LAW OF MOSES" refers to the other 603 laws.

    Seeing that the verses above say that burnt offerings are mentioned in the LAW OF THE LORD (GOD) can Sabbath advocates still maintain that LAW OF THE LORD means exclusively the TEN COMMANDMENTS?




    In full agreement:

    The Torah (The law) is said to be the Law of Moses because it was given THROUGH Moses; but, it has always been the Law of God, because it was given BY God.


    The ten commandments are and have always been a portion of the Law;

    The 10 commandments, Ex 20:3-17, are said to be the Law of Moses because they were given THROUGH Moses; but, they have always been the Law of God, because they were given BY God.

    There is absolutely no difference between the 10 commandments and the Law except that the 10 commandments are a portion of the law.
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    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    I will definitely pray about it. I am sitting in a messianic Jewish service right now and I can ask my brothers and sisters to pray For you as well.

    I told the Rabbi the same things i have written in this thread and we are in agreement. We should worship God everyday.

    Anyway. Service is still happening so I probably should pay more attention.
    We should worship everyday but we can make nothing holy. The LORD had blessed and hallowed the 7th day. One day set apart; Holy.

    Please notice in Eternity we will be worshiping before the LORD every day. But as the New moon appears every month so does the the Sabbath every week. Because when the LORD blesses and hallows a day, it remains that way throughout Eternity

    Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    If the Sabbath was not still important to our FATHER then why mention it in Eternity.
    LORD I believe; help THOU my unbelief! For YOU have given us all things that pertain to Life and godliness through Jesus Christ.

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    If they had understood grace, they would have seen, They thought law was a means to salvation, and what made them holy, and seperate from the filthy sameritans and gentiles.
    EG, God's Law taught Grace. And taught compassion for the "Stranger". It was their Law, not God's that caused them to separate themselves from the Gentiles.

    Ex. 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

    Ex. 23:9 Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

    Lev. 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.


    8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

    Ex. 33:13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

    Ez. 9:7 Since the days of our fathers have we been in a great trespass unto this day; and for our iniquities have we, our kings, and our priests, been delivered into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, and to a spoil, and to confusion of face, as it is this day.
    8 And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

    Psalms 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

    Proverbs 3:34 Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

    You continue to preach that the Pharisees did not create their own Laws, rather, followed God's Laws. EG, this is a terrible lie I really wish you would stop preaching.

    Had the Pharisees followed God's Instructions like Abraham and Zechariahs and Elizabeth they would have known all about the Grace God created for His People, that He showed to Abraham and Noah, and the compassion we are to have for the Gentile who may turn to God.

    But the Biblical truth is the Pharisees were not following the instructions of God as did Abraham.

    Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
    5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

    Jesus said this about the Pharisees.

    Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God)

    Yes, they claimed to be Abraham's Children, but Jesus said they were liars, satan's children. Why do you continue to preach the falsehood that satan's children try to earn salvation by keeping and preaching others to obey God as did Abraham? It's almost as if you know this but preach it anyway.

    John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

    39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    For the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins was given by Moses, but the Grace and Truth Noah, Abraham and the Gentiles and we all have access to is given by Jesus the Christ as Prophesied by the Law and Prophets

    What about this post is not Biblically correct?
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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    They thought law was a means to salvation, and what made them holy, and seperate from the filthy sameritans and gentiles.
    I never got a chance to respond to your statement regarding my salvation being neither of myself nor of God, which your response was you sadly beginning to believe.

    Of course, if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God then how can one come to the knowledge of the truth if it is written, "
    for he that cometh to God must believethat he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." [See Hebrews 11:6]

    Thus, it is only normal that one that holds to the law to say that nobody can be saved except but by the law which is "For by grace are ye saved through faith;..." [See Ephesians 2:8]
    (Note: LAW: A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.)

    However, laws or rules are made up by men, however a principle is law which comes from the LORD that man can not make up nor alter. Since faith without truth is not faith, it is merely believing since faith is the substance of thing(s) hoped for (believed to be the truth). Thus the substance of faith is the evidence of the hope not seen. Hence it is written in Romans 8:24-25 "...but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." Which is the reward given to the believe who comes to the knowledge of the truth.








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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by lightbearer View Post
    We should worship everyday but we can make nothing holy. The LORD had blessed and hallowed the 7th day. One day set apart; Holy.

    Please notice in Eternity we will be worshiping before the LORD every day. But as the New moon appears every month so does the the Sabbath every week. Because when the LORD blesses and hallows a day, it remains that way throughout Eternity

    Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    If the Sabbath was not still important to our FATHER then why mention it in Eternity.
    Because Sabbath means rest.
    .yet I don't think you know what that means...

    Jesus said mercy is better than sacrifice.

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    No.

    However there is a difference between the Old covenant given by Moses and the New covenant given by Jesus,
    Haha. Something we agree on
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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    The old covenant

    Exodus 19-20


    20 The Lord descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up 21 and the Lord said to him, “Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish. 22 Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them.”

    23 Moses said to the Lord, “The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, ‘Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy.’”

    24 The Lord replied, “Go down and bring Aaron up with you. But the priests and the people must not force their way through to come up to the Lord, or he will break out against them.”

    25 So Moses went down to the people and told them.

    ****

    And God spoke all these words:

    2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

    3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

    4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

    7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

    8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

    12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

    13 “You shall not murder.

    14 “You shall not commit adultery.

    15 “You shall not steal.

    16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

    17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

    18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”

    20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

    21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.
    These are the 10 commandments, not the old covenant....
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    "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." 1 Peter 2:9




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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by VirtualViolet View Post
    These are the 10 commandments, not the old covenant....
    Deuteronomy 4:13-14King James Version (KJV)

    13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

    10 commandment is covenant, and It is in OT, so It is old covenant.

    do you believe 10 commandment is new covenant? If so why, tell me the reason.
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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."




    James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”




    James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”


    Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Aḇraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.
    Hiz Temp acct.

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by VirtualViolet View Post
    Haha. Something we agree on
    Praise God! Lol

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    If they had understood grace, they would have seen, They thought law was a means to salvation, and what made them holy, and seperate from the filthy sameritans and gentiles.


    If they had accepted being in God's prescience instead ofl fleeing it would be a totally different story

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    If they had understood grace, they would have seen, They thought law was a means to salvation, and what made them holy, and seperate from the filthy sameritans and gentiles.


    except they made their own law

    2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of יהוה their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”


    Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrinethe commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."
    Hiz Temp acct.

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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamah View Post
    Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."




    James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”




    James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”


    Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Aḇraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.
    So do you believe we have to do sabbath law because the word of God never pass away?

    animal sacrifice is also the word of God, kill sabbath violator is the word of God, is SDA kill the sabbath violator, or do animal sacrifice because the word of God never pass away?
    Grandpa and Marcelo like this.

  20. #120
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    Default Re: Law of God vs. Law of Moses

    I hate sharing personal information over the internet because people judge and shape weapons of your words and I don't like giving people ammo.

    However God has placed it on my heart to share with you how I honor Him every day by telling you in part what I do.

    I did the math. 24 hours...ten percent. 2.5 hours a day spent on worshiping God.

    I don't do it to earn points but for my own spiritual health, we spend hours eating or sleeping each day. Can we not spend at least 2 and a half with our heavenly father?

    Remember I said God calls people to worship Him in different ways and I don't say if you are not like me I am better but that we both should follow Jesus as He leads and maybe what he has asked of me will help you too in your walk.


    Taking the time to the following has changed my life.

    Just 10% of my day set aside for the Lord.

    I do 5 spiritual practices
    .I share in my next post..

    If you dont,care just skip my posts,

    I believe at least one person who reads this will care and that is all that matters for God loves each and every one of us.

    If just one life is blessed, then all we do is not in vain.
    .if just one sinner turns from the world and towards God and life..then ALL the angels of GOD and His saints rejoice and give thanks and praise to God.

    For Jesus left the 99 sheep to find the one lost one.

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