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Thread: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

  1. #21
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Its not a thrill as you put it, Willie, but false preachers need exposed for what they are...false preachers.

    Would you sit under the ministry of one who teaches the Christ literally suffered in hell? And also ceased to be the Son of God whilst hanging upon the cross? I sure wouldn't.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    John 15:11 “These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

    So how do we reconcile the joy in the above with being miserable or under "pressure" in various form?

  3. #23
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Her words sound good to covetous ears "Jesus doesn't want you to be miserable." Thats why people flock to her because their ears are itching to hear how they can get more stuff, and how to justify getting more stuff and they get their ears scratched. This is what they think it means to "be right with God."

    Scripture calls them covetous, and that this is also idolatry.

    Oh no, they'll never believe that! Exactly. They're being deceived so of course not.

    In this world we will have tribulation. Weep with those who weep. We through much tribulation enter the kingdom of God. We are granted belief and suffering. In all these things and even in lacking the true believer has joy.

    No person in the NT church expected a trouble free walk and whatever material thing they desired. The heresy that teaches the opposite comes from rich self important psychologists posing as Gospel ministers. They usually write books about how much you can get from God because you deserve it.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon

  4. #24
    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    I am not tearing anyone up, and I am not saying you're accusing me of doing this, either. But she teaches a false doctrine...really, doctrines. First off, she pastors a church, and that's unbiblical. She teaches the Christ suffered in hell, iirc. Then she's all in the prosperity 'gospel'. She needs to be avoided at all cost...avoided like the black plague.
    I haven't read much of her stuff but have heard what you have quoted when I did a bit of research. I read somewhere that she had retracted early doctrine that she believed in when she started ministry.
    To be honest that's all I have looked at concerning her.
    Not looked into what she preaches now.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by NotmebutHim View Post
    No, we don't HAVE to be miserable, but Jesus DID say that we would have trouble, face temptations, deal with rejection and with disappointments in this life.

    We still find joy in Him though, because He has overcome the world. It's important to remember that joy and happiness are not the same thing.

    Yes, happiness and joy are not the same thing.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon

  6. #26
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    I knew Joy - she wasn't happy....
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Its not a thrill as you put it, Willie, but false preachers need exposed for what they are...false preachers.

    Would you sit under the ministry of one who teaches the Christ literally suffered in hell? And also ceased to be the Son of God whilst hanging upon the cross? I sure wouldn't.
    I read she said that 26 years ago. And I believe she might have believed that then. But, I have listened to her on TV, been to several of her seminars, and spoken directly to her, face-to-face, three times. I have not heard this. When did you say it was you heard her preaching that?
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    I knew Joy - she wasn't happy....
    My wife's cousin is named Joy. Ain't nuttin joyful 'bout her!
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    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Depleted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Say I fix you a chocolate cake. But I had mixed in some dog feces, just a little amount, and you ate it w/o me telling you. You couldn't taste it, but that hazardous material was in there. Now, if I had told you beforehand it was in there, you would have not even entertained the thought of eating it, not even one bite.

    This is what Joyce Meyers does. She mixes dog feces in her sermons. That's what I am telling the OP. Avoid her at all costs.
    That does it!

    I am never, ever, ever going to eat at Sov's house, even if he serves chocolate!
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  10. #30
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    That does it!

    I am never, ever, ever going to eat at Sov's house, even if he serves chocolate!
    I heard his cakes cause hives of the buttocks.
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    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon

  11. #31
    Senior Member Depleted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post

    While many people here seem to thrill at engaging in their games of finding things wrong with what some TV preachers say, my biggest deterrent to misery (yeah, ain't it strange to actually focus on the OP?) is to simply see the joy around me. Much of it comes from just looking at the world around me....... and most of isn't even people boasting "Holy, holy! I have the joy of the Lord."

    In fact much of it comes from commercials put on by an organization many "Christians" bash, every chance they get......

    These kids have been dealt crappy hands we can only imagine..... yet, almost all of them are happily living their lives.

    Sooo, to keep to first OP, the secret is to skip the Lord all together and focus elsewhere? (Gospel = annoying thing?)



    I know you're going to say I twisted your words, but not really. Whenever you talk about "God," seriously, you skip God all together. The closest you get to talking about him is in a form of "he won't mind." Which, of course, since you skip what he does say, and does mind, is as close to God as you get.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    John 15:11 “These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

    So how do we reconcile the joy in the above with being miserable or under "pressure" in various form?
    (Just learned this a day or two ago. I am such a sloooowwww learner. lol)

    Laish and Locutus like this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  13. #33
    Senior Member Lucy-Pevensie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Balance! There is a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.

    Jesus said in the world we would have tribulation but be of good cheer, "I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD!"

    Sometimes in the flesh it's hard to focus properly but we have the joy of The Lord and the peace that passes understanding.


    Yes life can really be hard and painful but.....
    We could have had some joyful threads couldn't we?

    Or maybe people do just want to be miserable?
    Ezekiel 36
    *Then they will know that I am the Lord*




  14. #34
    Senior Member Ahwatukee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy-Pevensie View Post
    Balance! There is a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.

    Jesus said in the world we would have tribulation but be of good cheer, "I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD!"

    Sometimes in the flesh it's hard to focus properly but we have the joy of The Lord and the peace that passes understanding.


    Yes life can really be hard and painful but.....
    We could have had some joyful threads couldn't we?

    Or maybe people do just want to be miserable?
    Well said! I would add that, Jesus said that he came so that we would have life to the fullest. But he also said that we would have trials and tribulation, that we would go through hardships for the testing of our faith.

    We should enjoy the blessings that the Lord provides, but always be prepared to go through those hardships, trials and tribulations, while keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God, whether through persecution or even unto death.
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    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control ...

    I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit ...

    This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit ....

  15. #35
    Senior Member FlSnookman7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    The verse to an old song comes to mind...."intoxicated by the madness, im in love with my sadness."

    Some people find comfort in misery and familiarity in depression. I used to be one of them. One of the hardest things for me to do when I was saved was to stop relying on rage and hate to survive and instead rely on God's peace and love. In today's information age where everyone is an expert on everything it is very easy to just constantly bash everyone and everything. Actually, I must amend that since we as humans have been like that for a long time (pharisees, jews complaining in desert, etc). I find the more I focus on God the less pessimistic I become.

    Don't fall for the lie that we must be miserable, Jesus wants us peaceful, joyful and prosperous.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Angela53510's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    You know, I am joyful every day! When I pray, read my Bible and think about God. God gives me joy.

    But, the pain is unbearable. It makes me miserable. And hopeless! And the fact that I know it is only going to go downhill from here.

    But God ministered to me a few weeks ago. He said, “You’re on your way home!” What a joy, to know that while I am to endure in this life, I have so much better to come. Whether in a day, a week, a year or in decades, I am on my way home!

    And that better is not just being out of pain. It is better because I will be with Jesus, and see him face to face! And that gives me more joy than anything else. Meantime, I occupy till he comes, but I will not lie about the terrible pain. Denial is a lie!

    As Christians, we need to be brutally honest with ourselves. If our misery is of our own doing, or a habit of being angry, hating life, well, some help might be needed. Prayer, doctors, life style change. I know God can always help that kind of miserable, he certainly helped me in that state.

    But, in this life we will have tribulations. And I hate people that say believe, when they mean “deny what you are feeling” or change, when God has not led them to change. Or quote Isa. 53:5d at me. Sorry, I need that verse in the context of all of Isaiah. And then all the miserable people in the Bible. Jeremiah and Hosea come to mind. David and the saints in the NT who died, as someone posted earlier!

    Or the modern saints who suffered depression, but did God’s work anyway. Like David Brainerd, and his work with natives, or Spurgeon with his depression, which actually enriched his understanding in ways we cannot begin to imagine.

    God is good! And Jesus has won. But the fulfillment of that awaits the return of Jesus. I do hope that didn’t discourage anyone. But Joyce Meyers preaches heresy, as SG has pointed out. And WoF teachers teach heresy, and I will oppose them. Always remember God is good and he loves you. But sometimes, love means suffering.

    More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint, because God’s love has been poured out to the Holy Spirit who has been given to us!” Romans 5:3-5
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    "And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." 2 Cor. 12:9 NASB

  17. #37
    Senior Member Lucy-Pevensie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    It's helpful that God acknowledges the hardships of life. He gave us The Book of Job and Lamentations (Jeremiah get's the blues). Even many of the Psalms speak to and about the pain & hardships of life. God knows life has difficulties, he doesn't veto our bad feelings, he comforts us.
    Angela53510, Miri, Magenta and 2 others like this.
    Ezekiel 36
    *Then they will know that I am the Lord*




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    Senior Member 7seasrekeyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    I read she said that 26 years ago. And I believe she might have believed that then. But, I have listened to her on TV, been to several of her seminars, and spoken directly to her, face-to-face, three times. I have not heard this. When did you say it was you heard her preaching that?
    she has changed. just a few days I watched her, after not watching her for a long time, and she DENOUNCED WOF

    but some people gotta dig up the bones as if they came out perfect

    I'm outspoken enough when I believe the teaching is wrong or especially when supernatural experience is put before the word but she has changed and it would be real grown up to acknowledge that IMO

  19. #39
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    I can see some of you at the Pearly Gates, telling God how you suffered so miserably joyfully for Him........ and Him just sadly shaking His head, saying you never had to, sad that you never understood Him at all.
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    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jesus didn’t die for us to be miserable

    Quote Originally Posted by 7seasrekeyed View Post
    she has changed. just a few days I watched her, after not watching her for a long time, and she DENOUNCED WOF

    but some people gotta dig up the bones as if they came out perfect

    I'm outspoken enough when I believe the teaching is wrong or especially when supernatural experience is put before the word but she has changed and it would be real grown up to acknowledge that IMO
    Yes, I sometimes wonder what some of "the Holy Ones" believed 26 years ago.
    7seasrekeyed likes this.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld (among others)
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

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