How many Judgment Seats are there?

[FlyingDove]

How many Judgment Seats are recorded in scripture?

 

[garee]

How many Judgment Seats are recorded in scripture?

One, Christ as an outward demonstration. He has sat in the judgment seat and was declared guilty in respect to our sin (every sin) .

There will not be two trials and therefore double jeopardy. He will come on the last day and those who have not the Spirit of Christ will show themselves as already have been judged and in the same twinkling of the eye the second and final resurrection .Its the end of this corrupted world as a kingdom of darkness . The two books are opened. Those found not in the lambs book of life slain from before the creation of the world will never rise to new spirit life.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

One judgement seat made up of Christians already forgiven. They have in effect already appeared before the judgment seat seat as those who walk by faith not by sight . No condemnation in represent to new creatures.

2Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

We shall all stand having already stood in the person of Christ be found righteous according to His imputed righteousness that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure .

One judgement seat, one judgement day, the last day the same day as the final resurrection .

 

[FlyingDove]

I see one Judge two 2 Final Judgment Seats

1) Judgment seat of Christ = believers only. (Rom 14:10 & 2 Cor 5:10)

2) White Throne Judgment = non-believers only. (Rev 20:11-13)

The people at the White Throne Judgment have rejected Christ's Sin Atonement & are judged according to the Law

Everything anyone has done or said, has been "RECORDED"

Without Christ there is no cloak for sin Jn 15:22! Here every SIN, every lie, everytime God was mocked, His Word, every idle word ever spoken, is judged

The one who rejects me & does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day (John 12:46-48)

Those at The White Throne Judgment Seat are found in Rev 20:11-13. (NO Believers will be judged here: Jesus took thier judgment on the cross)

John 5:24 Jesus said; Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life
(NOTE: Believers will not be judge for thier sin)

Believerss go to the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10 & Rom 14:10)

Here sin is not discussed. Faith placed in Christ's Redemptive Sin Atoning Death, Burial & Resurrection. Takes ALL of the believers sins & nailed them to His Cross (Col 2:14)

When Jesus said; ITS FINISHED! (John 19:30) What was finished? The work of redemption. Every worldly sin any believer ever committed was PAID FOR IN FULL. Thur faith placed in Gods grace & Jesus sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection. A full pardon is given!

No believer will never be condemned for sin (Rom 8:1)

The believers Sins have been removed: As far as the east is from the west (Ps 103:12)

Christians are judged for their works in Him, be they good or bad:

Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord,
(We are to KNOW our works done in His service. Will be rewarded by Christ personally)

1 Cor 3:8-14 Good works receive a reward. Bad or No works (DEAD) result in shame & or loss

For any sinful works, he shall suffer loss, forfeit a special reward; "NOT" that he shall lose salvation.

Salvation a free gift, not a "reward" or wage. Salvation's foundation is found in Gods grace & faith placed in the Sin Atoning (REDEMPTIVE) work of the Lord Jesus Christ

1 Cor 3:
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
(NOTE: Gold & silver = Good works done in Christ's name. Hay, wood & stubble = no works, selfish works, even bad works)

13 Each one’s work will become manifest, the Day (of ones judgment) will disclose it, it will be revealed by fire, & the fire will test what sort of work each one has done
(NOTE: Every deed will be tested)

14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives ""he will receive a reward""
(NOTE: Gold & silver deeds, will receive a reward)

15 If anyone’s work is burned up, "he will suffer loss", "though he himself will be saved"
(NOTE: Hay, wood & stubble deeds will bring, shame & loss = of REWARDS not SALVATION)

Rereading verse 15: He "Will SUFFER LOSS", though he "HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED"

The believers works, done in Christ's name, will be tested ""NOT THIER SALVATION" Hay, wood & stubble works will be burned up. Also, earned rewards can be lost, but, the bleievers soul still be saved. God will not cast off a believing soul for any failure of sin. The believers salvation foundation is the finished (REDEMPTIVE) work of Jesus Christ.

I will be merciful toward their iniquities, & "I will remember their sins no more” (HEB 8:12)

At the moment a person becomes a Christian they receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is referred to as a “deposit” “seal” "the earnest” put in the heart of Christians The Holy Spirit is God’s seal on His people.

The Holy Spirit is given to believers as security deposit. (2 Cor 1:22; 5:5; Eph 1:13-14; 4:30)

At the White Throne Judgment, Rev 20:11-13:

All the UNBELIEVING people who REJECTED God's grace & would not place thier trust in Christ's sin atoning sacrifice. Will be judge for every sin, every unbelieving word they ever spoke.

Blasphemy the Holy Spirit the only unforgivable sin (Mk 3:22–30 & Mat 12:22–32). This blasphemy to reject God's grace found is Jesus sin atoning sacrifice, until lifes end. Always offered via the "Holy Spirit". For this REJECTION/UNBELIEF there is NO forgiveness.

Believers Have Eternal Life
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son "hath" everlasting life & he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

Unbelievers Are Condemned
John 3:18 But he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[MarcR]

I believe you have it right

 

[Johnny_B]

Hey guys what about Joel 3:9-16 “Proclaim this among the nations: Consecrate for war; stir up the mighty men. Let all the men of war draw near; let them come up.10 Beat your plowshares into swords,and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, “I am a warrior.”11 Hasten and come, all you surrounding nations, and gather yourselves there. Bring down your warriors, O Lord.12 Let the nations stir themselves up and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; for there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Go in, tread, for the winepress is full. The vats overflow, for their evil is great.14 Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.15 The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.16 The Lord roars from Zion, and utters his voice from Jerusalem, and the heavens and the earth quake. But the Lord is a refuge to his people, a stronghold to the people of Israel.”

Matthew 25:31-46 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Before Jesus starts going into the parables in chapter 24:32-25:30, lets see what He said in Matthew 25:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

If you read both of these Joel and Matthew it is clear to me that they are talking about the same throne of glory as Jesus called it and according to Joel He is judging the nations. Many believe that this is the beginning of the millennium reign of Christ, if you hold that view.

 

[joefizz]

I suppose we'll know when the time comes.

 

[OtherWay210]

Parable of lazarus and the rich man explains when we die, there is an judgment of both good and bad ..
The final judgment is at the end of the lords day of both good and bad. ..

 

[Ahwatukee]

Parable of lazarus and the rich man explains when we die, there is an judgment of both good and bad ..
The final judgment is at the end of the lords day of both good and bad. ..

Hello OtherWay210,

Just curious as to why you would call the event of the rich man and Lazarus a judgment? When a person dies their spirit departs from the body and goes to one of two places. Those spirits in Christ go immediately to be in the presence of Christ and those not in Christ, their spirit goes in Hades. There is no judgment associated with it at that time. At the end of the millennial period, those who will have been in torment in Hades will be resurrected and will stand before God at the great white throne and will be judged.

Sheol/Hades is just the place that those without Christ go after death. However, there is no formal judgment prior to them going in.

Also, for those who are in Christ, their judgment doesn't take place until after Christ appears to gather the church and takes us back to heaven, which is when each believer belonging to the church will appear before the Bema seat of Christ and will be judged to either receive reward or loss of reward. To be clear, scripture does not teach that there is a judgment at the time of each believers death.

 

[beta]

Hello OtherWay210,

Just curious as to why you would call the event of the rich man and Lazarus a judgment? When a person dies their spirit departs from the body and goes to one of two places. Those spirits in Christ go immediately to be in the presence of Christ and those not in Christ, their spirit goes in Hades. There is no judgment associated with it at that time. At the end of the millennial period, those who will have been in torment in Hades will be resurrected and will stand before God at the great white throne and will be judged.

Sheol/Hades is just the place that those without Christ go after death. However, there is no formal judgment prior to them going in.

Also, for those who are in Christ, their judgment doesn't take place until after Christ appears to gather the church and takes us back to heaven, which is when each believer belonging to the church will appear before the Bema seat of Christ and will be judged to either receive reward or loss of reward. To be clear, scripture does not teach that there is a judgment at the time of each believers death.

Just caught this little snippet where 'a persons spirit goes to one of two places when departing from the body.'
I do not think there is a scripture for this...rather we read in Eccl 12v7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was ; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (speaking of the human/man's spirit ....until the resurrection to Judgement Joh 5v29).

 

[OtherWay210]

To: 4 Minutes Ag
Ahwatukee

The parable of Lazarus and the Rich man is about what ? You think no one Judged where the rich man ended up and where Lazarus did ? Are you following what it is you read ? Or are you favoring a commentary ?

One made it, the other did not. I dont have to rehash the chapter you can read it . They died, and there was a Judgment placing them on either of a divide .Pretty clear that one has obtained Eternal life, the other Not .

Paul would write, all must appear before the Judgement Seat of Christ, to receive the things done in their body, whether it be good or bad.
Messiah explained, that is what happens instantly after death.

So you claiming to formally know the procedures of heavenly Judgment is error .
Stick strictly to scriptures .


You also got some rapture doctrines contaminating every scripture you touch, clearly you're going to have to drop all that baggage before you accept what is plainly written. And I'm not going to argue with you to do that .That is your choice .


The second Judgment, is the Final Great White Throne Judgment . As example only, those such as the Rich man, will wait until the End of the Lords day, to know if he is going into the Eternity .

If God judges them worthy of it, then they are good .

 

[Ahwatukee]

The parable of Lazarus and the Rich man is about what ? You think no one Judged where the rich man ended up and where Lazarus did ? Are you following what it is you read ? Or are you favoring a commentary ?

What I am saying is, when an unbeliever dies, there is no formal judgment at that time. God simply sends them to Sheol/Hades. It is not until after the millennial period that the judgment of the unrighteous dead takes place.

In opposition, the judgment of the righteous will take place after the church is gathered. There will also be a judgment of the sheep and goats when Christ returns to the earth to end the age. But regarding the unrighteous, there is no formal judgment that takes place at the time of death. Their spirits enter into Sheol/Hades because their spiritual state is already known by God.

One made it, the other did not. I dont have to rehash the chapter you can read it . They died, and there was a Judgment placing them on either of a divide .Pretty clear that one has obtained Eternal life, the other Not .

Please show me where in the context of the rich man and Lazarus where judgment was held. I'm speaking about a formal judgment where individuals stand before God and where they will give an account for everything they ever said, did or thought.

Y

ou also got some rapture doctrines contaminating every scripture you touch, clearly you're going to have to drop all that baggage before you accept what is plainly written. And I'm not going to argue with you to do that .That is your choice .

Please provide those teachings which you think are contaminating. I have no baggage, as I have always done my own studies and therefore do not rely on the teachings of others. If you see baggage, it is because you are in error of what you think the scriptures teach. You're not going to argue because I would reveal where you are wrong.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Just caught this little snippet where 'a persons spirit goes to one of two places when departing from the body.'

I do not think there is a scripture for this...rather we read in Eccl 12v7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was ; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (speaking of the human/man's spirit ....until the resurrection to Judgement Joh 5v29).

Hello Beta,

Here is the scripture that you were referring to and another as well:

"Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. - 2 Cor.5:6

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body." - Phil.1:23

The two scriptures above demonstrate that when the body dies the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. When scripture refers to death as sleep, it is speaking specifically of the body, not the spirit. We have too many other scriptures that reveal that the spirit is conscious and aware after death for soul sleep to be valid.

Therefore, it is the body that returns to dust, but the spirit is conscious and aware after death, which is exactly what the event of the rich man and Lazarus teaches.

 

[OtherWay210]

To : Ahwatukee second reply

( To address the topic of the thread, and some points you've made ) .


Again, by what authority are you claiming "" there is No formal judgment " after death ..
Now what in your mind constitutes ;"" formal judgment "" Can you document that with Scriptures ?
Just describing some fantasy scenario, scripture doth not make


Many people in these forums, hold rapture views, talk on the Resurrection and judgment day and it makes no sense to me .... Because rapture muddies the Bibles definition for what Resurrection means, and when it takes place. And whats the time reference given in the Bible . Rapture utterly leavens all related passages , definitions and order of events. So there is Always a disconnect, between scriptures and people that hold to that view.
I take issue with the teaching, which has now had very detrimental effects in the churches .


When anyone dies, All are Judged . Christians do not wait, to receive Eternal life, we have it Now ..
The piece left out of the order of end time events by wayward rapture adherents, is The Tribulation of Satan ( aka Antichrist )
The warning is apostasy, for Christians who have eternal life already, but risk losing it during his deception .

At the end of the Tribulation of Satan, those that remained faithful, never lose it .
However Those Christians that apostatize at that time, will be in the same liable to perish state as the rich man ( dead )
until The Great White Throne Judgment of God take place , and they are judged according to their works .
That either leads them Finally into the Lake of Fire ( the second death ) or Eternity .



The sheep and the goats in Christs' parable is about the very end here.
This teaching here ends with either ( eternal life, or the lake of fire.)
The Great White Throne Judgment determines it .

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:


33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


The division is when Christ returns at the Lords Day .Its written in other places in the Bible

((Isaiah 34:1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. ))


To repeat the parable dose not end there, It ends with the dividing of the sheep and goats at the final Judgment .

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



Again Christ explained, the deeds of the rich man, and the deeds of Lazarus . If that does not meet Your requirements for

what You deem constitutes a """ formal judgment "" then I cannot help you. Because your definitions or presuppositions is not applicable to the Bible .. So Just toss it in the trash or something thats all I can tell you.


Baggage . Well very much appears your idea of what a Resurrection even means, has been polluted by rapture teachings

 

[MattforJesus]

How many Judgment Seats are recorded in scripture?

There is the judgment seat of Christ,and the great white throne judgment,but Jesus judges at both,for God has committed all judgment to the Son,and will judge the world by Jesus Christ.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

But there is two judgments,one of the saints where their works are judged,and if their any of their works that do not measure up will not affect their salvation for they are still saved.

And one of the dead that rise after the millennial reign of Christ where the people that rejected the truth,or did not hear the truth,are judged.Those that rejected the truth cannot be saved,but those who did not hear the truth,or not sufficiently will be judged by their belief in a higher power,and their love of people,and their conscience,for creation testifies there is a God that loves people for He provided food,and the means to make clothing and shelter,so people should love this higher power and love people,and if they did love this higher power and people,and asked to be forgiven for anything that is amiss seeing they do not have the words of God,they can have eternal life,for God is a fair God.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Again, by what authority are you claiming "" there is No formal judgment " after death ..

Because there is nothing in scripture that states that a judgment takes place at the time of death. Neither is there anything mentioned about a judgment taking place in the context of the rich man and Lazarus. The official judgment of the unrighteous dead takes place after the millennial period at the great white throne judgment, which is where the books will be opened and each individual will be judged according to every action, thought and idle word, as described in Rev.20:11-15

Now what in your mind constitutes ;"" formal judgment "" Can you document that with scriptures ?

Just describing some fantasy scenario, scripture doth not make

I don't do fantasies. I proclaim the truth of God's word. An example of formal judgment according to scripture, would be the sheep and the goat judgment that takes place when Christ returns to the earth. This will be a judgment of living people. Another example would be the great white throne judgment, which takes place after the thousand year reign of Christ, where the unrighteous dead throughout all of history will resurrect and will stand before God where the books will be opened and they will be judged according to everything in those books.

There will also be a judgment for those in Christ which will take place after the dead are raised and the living are changed and caught up. Each believer will stand before Christ at the Bema seat and will be judged, not for sin, but for works whether good or bad, to gain rewards or loss of reward.

But regarding judgment at the time of death, there is nothing in scripture, that I know of, that teaches that a judgment is held at the time of death for either the righteous or the wicked. At the time of death each goes to their appropriate destination, with judgment to follow at a later time.

Many people in these forums, hold rapture views, talk on the Resurrection and judgment day and it makes no sense to me .... Because rapture muddies the Bibles definition for what Resurrection means, and when it takes place. And whats the time reference given in the Bible . Rapture utterly leavens all related passages , definitions and order of events. So there is Always a disconnect, between scriptures and people that hold to that view.
I take issue with the teaching, which has now had very detrimental effects in the churches .

The resurrection always has to do with the body. In fact, the definition of the word "anastasis" translated as "Resurrection" means "to stand up again bodily." When a believer dies, according to 2 Cor.5:6 and Phil.1:23, the spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. Those who have died are waiting for the resurrection from that side.

When the resurrection takes place, those spirits that went to be in the presence of Christ will return with him and be reunited with their immortal and glorified resurrected bodies. Immediately after that, those still alive in Christ will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be "caught up" to meet those who will have just resurrected, the whole group meeting the Lord in the air, as described in 1 Thes.4:13-18.

The word "Rapture" is simply the Latin version of the Greek "Harpazo" which carry the same meaning, which is "snatched up, force suddenly exercised, to be caught up. It is the same word used when Paul said that he was "caught up" to the third heaven and the same word used when the male child of Rev.12 is "caught up" to God's throne. It is also the same word used to describe when Philip was "caught away" from the Eunuch.

The on-going controversy is "when" will the event of the church, dead and living, be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

This is where cross-referencing and comparing scripture comes in. We are told that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, any wrath and that because Jesus already suffered God's wrath on every believers behalf, satisfying it completely. In addition, we have scripture stating that we are not appointed to suffer wrath, that Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath and Jesus telling us that he will keep us out of that hour of trial, referring to the time of God's wrath.

The information regarding the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments as defined in the book of Revelation, is how God is going to carry out said wrath.

When does God's wrath begin? Since we as believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then we cannot go through it and therefore must be gathered prior to the beginning of God's wrath. There are those who say that God is going to protect the church in the midst of his wrath. Those who say this do not understand the severity and magnitude of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will decimate the the majority of the population of the earth and dismantle all human government.

When anyone dies, All are Judged

Please provide the scripture which demonstrates each person being judged at the time of death. There are specific times for each judgment mentioned in scripture.

The piece left out of the order of end time events by wayward rapture adherents, is The Tribulation of Satan ( aka Antichrist )

Everything that takes place during that last seven years, including the events of the antichrist/beast, is apart of God's wrath.

In Dan.9:24 a decree seventy seven year periods is pronounced upon Israel and Jerusalem. Sixty nine of those seven year periods were fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off/crucified. At that time, God put a hold on that last seven years and began to build the church, which is still in the process of being built. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will appear and gather the church. Following that God will pick up where He left off completing that last seven years in conjunction with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

At the end of the Tribulation of Satan, those that remained faithful, never lose it .
However Those Christians that apostatize at that time, will be in the same liable to perish state as the rich man

There is no tribulation of Satan. He will be performing his events within the time of God's wrath. The groups that will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath, the day of the Lord, will be the great tribulation saints, Israel, the 144,000 and those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark.

The sheep and the goats in Christs' parable is about the very end here.
This teaching here ends with either ( eternal life, or the lake of fire.)
The Great White Throne Judgment determines it .

According to scripture, the judgment of the sheep and the goats takes place in conjunction with the Lord's return to the earth. It is a judgment of those who make it through the entire wrath of God when Jesus returns to the earth to establish his millennial kingdom. At that time they will be separated into the two groups of the sheep and the goats. The goats will be like a large group of those guilty of the same thing that got the rich man into Hades, no faith expressed in love.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The above takes place when the Lord returns to the earth after God's wrath has been completed. The reference to the holy angels being with him, is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31, when the angels come with him and he sends them out to first gather the weeds.

Again Christ explained, the deeds of the rich man, and the deeds of Lazarus . If that does not meet Your requirements for

Jesus was just revealing the event of the rich man and Lazarus. There was no judgment mentioned there. In other words, when the rich man died, his spirit didn't go to heaven to stand before God where all of his sins were revealed to him and then sent to Hades. His judgment, like the rest of the wicked will take place at the end of the thousand years at the great white throne.

 

[John146]

Hello Beta,

Here is the scripture that you were referring to and another as well:

"Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. - 2 Cor.5:6

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body." - Phil.1:23

The two scriptures above demonstrate that when the body dies the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. When scripture refers to death as sleep, it is speaking specifically of the body, not the spirit. We have too many other scriptures that reveal that the spirit is conscious and aware after death for soul sleep to be valid.

Therefore, it is the body that returns to dust, but the spirit is conscious and aware after death, which is exactly what the event of the rich man and Lazarus teaches.

Man is a tri-part being: body, soul and spirit(1 Thess. 5:23). Upon the death, the body is placed in the grave, the spirit returns to the Lord the giver of life, but the soul is what's at stake. The soul is the inner man.

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[OtherWay210]

To : Ahwatukee ( final reply )

These are fundamentals that Christians should know by now ....

As a believer, I must accept what is written. I dont get to impose my views, or prerequisites on any passage . The Bible gives us the information a true believer listens .


The Bible warns of apostasy. We have a taste of the reasons , in all these forms .

The ignorance is spreading like a dark smoke .. Even before Satan is here. When he gets here, he'll have Christians eating out of his hand .. Its sad .

i dont know what to say. I dont have the paitence, to walk someone through every verse. There comes a time we have to give up and move on .

Scriptures speak we are to listen to its language. The Holy Spirit gives the ears to hear and eyes to see, we can only pray for . . If people want to day dream, just make sure its not during the Hour of Temptation .

 

[garee]

Just curious as to why you would call the event of the rich man and Lazarus a judgment? When a person dies their spirit departs from the body and goes to one of two places. Those spirits in Christ go immediately to be in the presence of Christ and those not in Christ, their spirit goes in Hades. There is no judgment associated with it at that time. At the end of the millennial period, those who will have been in torment in Hades will be resurrected and will stand before God at the great white throne and will be judged.

When a person dies not knowing Christ they are dead never to rise to new spirit life again . Other than in Christ dead means dead never to rise to new spirit life forever and ever. Hell denotes a living suffering .Those that die outside of Christ have been judged . There was no saving grace freely given as a new spirit .And God is not merciless that he would pay the eternal wage of one before they were born and cause another to suffer forever and ever for their eternal sin.


There is no suffering for the dead. The idea of spirits returning then be released to be judged only to return again for more suffering is not a biblical thought.

 

[garee]

The ignorance is spreading like a dark smoke .. Even before Satan is here. When he gets here, he'll have Christians eating out of his hand .. Its sad .

i dont know what to say. I dont have the paitence, to walk someone through every verse. There comes a time we have to give up and move on .

Scriptures speak we are to listen to its language. The Holy Spirit gives the ears to hear and eyes to see, we can only pray for . . If people want to day dream, just make sure its not during the Hour of Temptation .

The antichrists (many), as the "things of men" seen influenced by the father of lies, Satan the god of this world who remins without form. The antichrists are here and have been. He would like for men to believe he is not here.The spirit of error the spirit of the antichrist Satan he never left from the garden


He had Peter eating out of his hand (will) This is clearly seen when Peter blasphemed the Son of man.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the "things that be of God", but "those that be of men". Mat 16:22

That above, making the things of God those of men defines antichrists .

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

 

[jaybird88]

Matthew 19:28


And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

i am counting 12 plus Yeshua.