What can we learn from the life/story of Job?

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star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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#1
The story of Job has always been an interesting one for me. What he went through, how he held up, could I hold up in my faith under such circumstances?

Any thoughts?
 

Ben675

Junior Member
Jan 16, 2018
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#2
Indeed. It is a great book. I find it interesting among other books of the Bible. I have heard people say that Job suffered because he feared and all that. But I believe none of us would even have the faith to follow God after all that Job went through. Its horrible. He suffered a quite lot yet when his wife turned against God, he held on. only later Job started cursing the day of his birth and started complaining against God.

For me , a quick response would be that the book of Job has taught me to trust God in all circumstances even though i dont see any logical explanation.
 

star

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#3
Ben675, yes it has taught me that as well. My thoughts are that while Job may have cursed the day he was born and started asking questions (who wouldn't) yet he still held his faith in God.

I do not believe it wrong to ask God questions, especially in a time of deepest challenges. God doesn't expect us to understand everything but He does expect us to trust Him no matter what is happening.
 
R

ruach

Guest
#4
1) Satan has to have permission to mess with a child of God.

2) Satan is the author and finisher of disease, calamity and death.

3) Pick the friends you surround yourself with during a trial wisely.

4) Self Righteousness can be your worst enemy.

5) God will Always restore what Satan takes away.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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#5
I love the book of Job.

It has one of my favourite verses in it.

Job 38:22
22 “Have you entered the treasury of snow,
Or have you seen the treasury of hail,.

The rain being is cause I love snow.

I read somewhere that Job would never have seen snow, not sure if it's true but if so it makes me think wow.

I love the concourse between Job & God in chapters 38-42.

My love it when he says to Job

Job 38:3
3 Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

What do I take from the book of Job?

God is in control, nothing can happen without his say so.

God speaks to us and had no problem with us answering him even if at times our responses are pure folly.
I truly do not have and understanding of the greatness and magnificence of God, yet he knows that and still speaks to me.
When I get it wrong he will restore me.

Therefore given that he is in control and knows my days from conception, I have to learn to trust that.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#6
The story of Job has always been an interesting one for me. What he went through, how he held up, could I hold up in my faith under such circumstances?

Any thoughts?
What I learned from my many readings and contemplation of that book is perseverance in continuing to fight the good fight despite extreme hardship.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#7
Ben675, yes it has taught me that as well. My thoughts are that while Job may have cursed the day he was born and started asking questions (who wouldn't) yet he still held his faith in God.

I do not believe it wrong to ask God questions, especially in a time of deepest challenges. God doesn't expect us to understand everything but He does expect us to trust Him no matter what is happening.
It is definitely not wrong to ask God questions, otherwise how can you learn anything spiritual? God spoke in the book of Isaiah, "Come now, and let us reason together..."
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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#8
It is definitely not wrong to ask God questions, otherwise how can you learn anything spiritual? God spoke in the book of Isaiah, "Come now, and let us reason together..."
Isaiah 1:18
18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool.

Amazing,

God says your sins are like scarlet but hey let's talk about them.
When we do and when you listen and when follow me, they will be as white as snow and I will remember them no more.
 

Ben675

Junior Member
Jan 16, 2018
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#9
I totally agree! It is never wrong to ask God questions. Even David have gone through challenges and we can see his cry to God in psalms. I believe at the end of it all, do we still complain or trust? Thats what matters!!
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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#10
What was most disappointing to me in this book is the actions of Job's "friends."

Isn't it easy to give out advice whenever we are without any distress of our own?

Some people actually do believe bad things happen to us due to some sin - I do not - If that were true, unbelievers would be in distress all the time.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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#11
I totally agree! It is never wrong to ask God questions. Even David have gone through challenges and we can see his cry to God in psalms. I believe at the end of it all, do we still complain or trust? Thats what matters!!
I fall foul of both
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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#12
My mother used to say to me "you ask why too much" and I did. lol
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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#13
What was most disappointing to me in this book is the actions of Job's "friends."

Isn't it easy to give out advice whenever we are without any distress of our own?

Some people actually do believe bad things happen to us due to some sin - I do not - If that were true, unbelievers would be in distress all the time.
Aah for a good friend. A Jonathan.

I think we do suffer consequences of our sin in the temporal world.
But I do not go along with people saying "God is punishing as a result of your sin"

I had that said to me when my anterior cruciate ligament was torn when playing football on a Sunday morning.
The sin being not going to church on a Sunday morning, even though I went to church for the evening service.
Boy did I carry that for a long time. My injury wrecked a professional career.

What is so so sad is that the person who said this to me, I never saw at an evening service.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#14
The story of Job has always been an interesting one for me. What he went through, how he held up, could I hold up in my faith under such circumstances?

Any thoughts?
Job 930 If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
31 Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
35 Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.

Job did not have Jesus Christ as his mediator(daysman) to bring him to God. The man Christ Jesus now knows what it's like to suffer in a human body and is able to help in time of need.

Hebrews 4
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 2
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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#15
Over the years it's taken me a lot of time to come to grips with who God is in TRUTH vs who God is in the sight of men. When I thought about Job in light of what I was taught by my religious upbringing in church about God sending sickness and doom... I cannot say there was ever a great thirst and desire to read all about the sufferings of Job.

Much like the guy who wants to be a missionary but feared God would send him to Africa. The song "Please Don't Send Me To Africa" was born. This is totally not what Jesus taught us about God. God doesn't just wait to stick us with what we fear so we can "learn a lesson" What a horrible man made Greek God mess!

I prefer to look to Jesus as the Bible tells us to so to get the PROPER interpretation of God the Father and His love and ways towards us. Here is a terrific post by a Bible commentator and writer named Paul Ellis that explains a much different perspective about Job than the one I first learned. IMO Mr. Ellis has a much better handle on the book of Job. Job learned how to be a truly Godly man.



[h=1][/h]


Many people consider Job a great man and a champion of the faith. Job, you will recall, lost everything (his family, wealth and health), then sat on a dunghill scratching himself with a broken plate while having a theology debate with seminarians. As a result of this rich, life-affirming experience, many people now believe the following lies:

  • God gives and takes away good things like children, health, jobs
  • God uses sickness to punish or discipline me
  • God puts me through hard times to teach me humility
  • God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

I want to offer a different perspective. The book of Job is not about a great man but a flawed man. The Job we read about was not the man of God many think he was, but a superstitious and fearful man who said some stupendously dumb things. His story is not about the triumph of the human spirit, but the awesome grace God gives to broken humanity.

“But Job was a righteous man.” Actually, he was a self-righteous man and basically an unbeliever, as we shall see. I’m not knocking Job. My purpose is to show you how grace changes broken people like you, me, and Job. By the time we get to the end of this short series, you’re going to be amazed at some of the good things God says about this imperfect man. But to finish well we must begin with a proper understanding of Job’s state apart from God. So here are ten little known facts about Job:
[h=4]
1. Job was superstitious
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Like many religious people, Job believed in karma. He subscribed to the faithless wisdom of sowing and reaping. If his kids threw a wild party, Job would bring a sacrifice. “They might’ve sinned; I’d better do something about it.” Debits and credits. “This was Job’s regular custom” (Job 1:5).
[h=4]
2. Job was sin-conscious
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Not his sins, of course, because he didn’t have any. (Cough!) He was a good man who kept the ledger clean. But Job viewed sin like kryptonite (see Job 31:11-12). He was terrified of it and thought about it constantly (see Job 31).
[h=4]
3. Job was full of fear
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Job was insecure and bound with fear. He would’ve been the perfect customer for an insurance salesman because he feared calamities and disasters that would wipe him out (Job 31:23). When that happened he said, “What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me” (Job 3:25).
[h=4]
4. Job was full of self-pity
[/h]
Read Job’s words and you get a strong sense of “Woe is me.” Although his woes were legitimate, he was utterly focused on his own sorry state. He was self-indulgent to the point of whining. “I will give free rein to my complaint” (Job 10:1). And complain he did.
[h=4]
5. Job allowed bitterness to take root
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Bitterness is a grace-killer, but Job allowed that evil weed to flourish in the garden of his heart. “I will complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11).
[h=4]
6. Job was self-righteous
[/h]
Job’s confidence was not in the Lord but his own good behavior. “How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin” (Job 13:23). Like an indignant Pharisee Job had an inflated sense of his moral performance. “Let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless” (Job 31:6).

Job’s self-trust reinforced his victim mentality. “Can anyone bring charges against me?” (Job 13:19). Eventually his self-righteousness became so odorous that it even silenced the self-righteous men who came to counsel him. “These three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1).
[h=4]
7. Job thought God didn’t care
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“Even if I summoned him and he responded, I do not believe he would give me a hearing” (Job 9:16). Job’s self-pitying distorted his perception of God’s character. Like many people going through hard times, Job thought God was opposed to him (Job 13:24).
[h=4]
8. Job blamed God for his troubles
[/h]
It is often taught that Job never blamed God (which is a misreading of Job 1:22; more on this later). However, Job did not hesitate to point the finger at “the Almighty, who has made my life bitter” (Job 27:2). A storm killed his kids and tribal raiders stole his herds, yet Job attributed his loss to a God who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). Again and again Job said God was the cause of his trouble (see Job 2:10, 6:4).

Given his good behavior, Job couldn’t make sense of this divine unfairness. “Don’t you have better things to do than pick on me?” (Job 7:20, MSG). God moves in mysterious ways, thought Job. At any time he might “crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason” (Job 9:17).
[h=4]
9. Job thought God was trying to kill him
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“Although I am blameless… He destroys both the blameless and the wicked” (Job 9:21-22). Job actually thought that God was trying to kill him. “You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death” (Job 30:21,23).
[h=4]
10. Consequently, Job despaired of life and wished he was dead
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Job loathed his life (see Job 7:16). “Who can see any hope for me?” (Job 17:15). This so-called hero of the faith had a death wish. “I prefer strangling and death, rather than this body of mine” (Job 7:15). Job had no faith in a God who heals and restores, but said, “the only home I hope for is the grave” (Job 17:13).

Many people honor Job as a giant of the faith who was renowned for his great patience. However, Job is not listed in Hebrews 11 among the other heroes of the faith and the only righteousness he exhibited was the stinky, self-made kind.

But stick around because we’re going to see that God’s grace is for imperfect people like Job. “He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill” (Psa 113:7). As we will see, Job’s life had a second act. Before he met the Lord Job was a whiner who falsely blamed God for his troubles; but afterwards he become a brand new man, a man that God saw as righteous and upright. It is an amazing story and you won’t want to miss it!



 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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#16
Aah for a good friend. A Jonathan.

I think we do suffer consequences of our sin in the temporal world.
But I do not go along with people saying "God is punishing as a result of your sin"

I had that said to me when my anterior cruciate ligament was torn when playing football on a Sunday morning.
The sin being not going to church on a Sunday morning, even though I went to church for the evening service.
Boy did I carry that for a long time. My injury wrecked a professional career.

What is so so sad is that the person who said this to me, I never saw at an evening service.

I agree. Our consequences from our sin(s) are the result of our sin(s) and not from God. It bothers me much whenever (as in the story of Job) people link our sin to God's hard hand on us.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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#17
"Job as a man of exemplary faith and piety, "blameless and upright", who "fears God" and "shuns evil".

This says to me, Job was a man of faith who followed God and who feared (reverenced) God and did shun evil.

The culprit here is Satan who wanted to see a man of faith be destroyed because IMHO Job was a man of faith.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#18
Here is a terrific post by a Bible commentator and writer named Paul Ellis that explains a much different perspective about Job than the one I first learned. IMO Mr. Ellis has a much better handle on the book of Job..

So it was not Joseph Prince this time. As I responded in another thread (related to Spurgeon) this is PURE NONSENSE since Ellis and Prince (and their cohorts) are all bent on twisting the Bible to fit their false theology. I would recommend that people simply ignore this allout attack on Job, since this guy Ellis believes that Job was NOT saved, when Ezekiel 14:13-20 clearly tells us that he was one of the few who was genuinely saved.

 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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#19
If Job was not saved, then why those words spoken about him "Job as a man of exemplary faith and piety, "blameless and upright", who "fears God" and "shuns evil".
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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#20
I know it can be "scary" to look at the traditions of certain interpretations of the Bible and dare to see them in a different light. But I see it's a must be done sort of thing. For reasons already stated., God doesn't send bad things our way., They are part of living on this planet. Bad things come from 3 places. 1. The world 2. The flesh 3. The devil.

Below are some thoughts about Job being saved and if he was saved at the beginning of the book of Job.



“If you’re suffering, you must have done something bad. God must be punishing you.” That must be one of the oldest lies in history. Here’s another. “God is using these hard times to teach you humility.” These lies can be traced back to one of the oldest and most misunderstood stories in the Bible – the story of Job. As I’m sure you know, Job was a man who lost everything. The Book of Job is not mainly about his loss, but how he tried to process his loss with the help of three religious friends.

When I wrote my Job post a year and a half ago I had no idea that so many Christians would get upset by me telling them that God does not take away his good gifts. (To be honest, I wasn’t the first to say that. I stole that revelation from Romans 11:29: “God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.” So if it makes you angry, take it up with the other Paul.) If you missed that post, here’s the short version; God does not give and take away. The only thing He’ll take off you is your sin, shame, and sickness.
I also had no idea that Tom Tompkins was writing a little gem entitled Understanding the Book of Job. In his book, Tompkins places the blame for Job’s woes squarely at the feet of the Devil:

Much of what Job’s friends told him exactly what we hear to today… While Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar did not condemn God, they did accuse and condemn Job. They were wrong to do so as it was not God or Job’s fault that the terrible events had taken place. Let’s not forget that none of these men had a revelation of the Devil. If the name “Satan” had been mentioned to any of them, they probably would have responded with “Who?” (pp.86,95)

“How convenient to blame the Devil,” you may say. “Surely God could have stopped Satan. Surely God set Job up by boasting about him.” Actually neither is true. Read the Job account in a literal translation such as Young’s and you will see that Satan came gunning for him:

And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, “Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?” (Job 1:8, YLT)

Satan had set his heart against Job. “So why didn’t God stop the Devil?” Good question. We might also ask, “Why doesn’t God stop earthquakes or famines or wars?” The answer is, not everything that happens is God’s responsibility. He left the planet in Adam’s control and Adam handed it to the Devil. Satan went for Job because he could. When God said, “All that he has is in thy power” (Job 1:12, see also 2:6), He wasn’t handing Job over to Satan – God doesn’t do deals with the Devil! – He was simply stating a fact. The whole unredeemed “world is under the control of the evil one” (1 Joh 5:19).

You have it better than Job


Job wasn’t saved. He wasn’t filled with the Holy Spirit. He had some understanding of God but he was a fearful and superstitious man filled with self pity and not a little self-righteousness (see Job 32:1).

Don’t ever compare yourself to Job! Jesus didn’t die on the cross to give you Job’s life but His life. It is Christ who lives in you, not Job. As Tompkins explains in his book, God does not inflict death and sickness on us to teach us stuff. God is more than capable of disciplining (i.e., training) us through His Word (2 Tim 3:16).

One of Job’s friends, Eliphaz, reasoned that Job was being afflicted on account of his sins. This same line is often heard today. When things go wrong we pray, “Lord search me and see if there be any wicked way in me.” When there are problems within the church, we hunt for “sin in the camp.” Do you realize how absurd this is? If God really judged us according to our sins, who could stand? If God was in the business of punishing sin in the camp, there wouldn’t be any camp!

Only a man ignorant of Jesus and His work on the cross would say that God punishes us for our sin. Eliphaz was such a man. God said of him, “You have not spoken concerning Me rightly” (Job 42:8). Anyone who says your hardships are God’s punishments is, like Eliphaz, not speaking of God rightly.

Later, Eliphaz suggested that Job would receive the blessings of God if he was worthy of them. Indeed, Job began to think exactly this way. “Look at all I’ve done.” This is equally absurd. God is not beholden to any of us. God blesses us in accordance with the riches of His grace, not the merits of our performance.

Why is Job’s story in the Bible? It is not there so we can look to him as a role model (we have Jesus!) but so that we might learn from his example. Those who don’t learn by example tend to learn by experience and experience is a harsh teacher. For those of you who would rather not learn the hard way, here’s the lesson: It is always Satan’s intention to harm us; it is always God’s intention to bless us. When you confuse the latter with the former, your reality will be defined by a lie making it virtually impossible to receive all that God has for you.

If you relate to God on the basis of obligation and performance, then you will falsely interpret life’s hardships and spiritual attacks as works of God. Instead of submitting in faith to the unconditional love of the Father and resisting the devil, your unbelief will lead you to submit to the devil and resist the One who loves you. It’s a recipe for disaster that is played out a thousand times every day by those who relate to God as Job did – with superstition and fear.

God does not desire your sacrifices


For as long as Job lived in fearful religion, trusting in the sacrifices of his own hands, he was setting himself up for disaster. “Those who cling to idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs.” But when he finally shut up and repented of his stupid theology, he opened the door to the blessings of God. The lesson we take from Job is worth repeating: the Devil is bad but our Father is good and He loves us and desires to bless us. This book will help you see that

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