What does this mean: “Baptism now saves us”?

[Jimbone]

You don't even believe that yourself.

First off how in the world do you know what I believe? I'm not even trying to be rude here, but seriously how in the world do you know what anyone believes? I can assure you 1 Billion percent I believe with all my mind, heart, and soul that I did NOTHING AT ALL, not 1 little thing to earn, cause, or deserve my salvation and it was ALL God, and He gets ALL credit. God is sovereign, He is the boss of everything, I like the saying "there's not a maverick molecule in the universe". I believe this is what He has told us in His word, are you saying that you did do something for your salvation?

I understand what you mean, from our perspective in our lives we "do" stuff, we make choices and to an extent I agree and understand what you mean, but even in my personal walk God made it VERY clear I did nothing. I was at the end of my rope in life, I was at a place where I didn't even want to live anymore, my 2 sons are the only reason I didn't help death along. I wasn't raised in the church or anything like that, then after growing up as wild as you can imagine my first son was born. At this point I now could not still claim atheism, after seeing life come into the world I knew there was something more. My wife was saved not to terribly long after Kris was born and slowly I was attracted to this Jesus guy. I said the magic prayer, and was even dunked under water, but did NOT know Him, was still the same exact person I always was.

Life went on, and was going real good, had another son with my high school girlfriend, now wife, a good job, everything the world tells us we want and is important. I was just basking in all my accomplishment the day I was in a motorcycle wreck, I woke up two and a half weeks later with no function in my right arm. This led to a 2 year downward spiral of me want to kill myself every 5 minutes of every day. I was at the end of my rope with nowhere to go, I wasn't seeking God, if I had ever believed in Him I definitely didn't at this point, and this was when I hit my knees. I didn't say "Jesus help me", or "God I'm ready now", I thought I knew what all that "Christian God stuff" was about. I was stuck here in the real world broken with no way to fix it, and fantasy God land wasn't going to help. I hit my knees and said "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose, and I QUIT!!".

I woke up the next day lighter and went to work, I didn't even notice anything until my lunch break at work, I realized "I haven't thought about killing myself all day". to me this was like the most profound thing ever, I was in awe, and I'm not sure how to explain it but in this moment I knew two things, first I knew that whatever happen to make me feel better was from God, second I knew Jesus was His son. I then went and grabbed a bible for the first time and started reading and quickly came to the conclusion I had been born again. It was all God, and I did nothing at all to merit it. I understand that what happen the day I hit my knees was God granting me repentance, to know that "my way" fails and to turn from it letting that old man die, but it is all God I can take no credit nor do I want any, I just want to proclaim His gospel in unimaginable gratitude for our great God. Praise Jesus mighty name, and all glory to Him.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

First off how in the world do you know what I believe? I'm not even trying to be rude here, but seriously how in the world do you know what anyone believes? I can assure you 1 Billion percent I believe with all my mind, heart, and soul that I did NOTHING AT ALL, not 1 little thing to earn, cause, or deserve my salvation and it was ALL God, and He gets ALL credit. God is sovereign, He is the boss of everything, I like the saying "there's not a maverick molecule in the universe". I believe this is what He has told us in His word, are you saying that you did do something for your salvation?

I understand what you mean, from our perspective in our lives we "do" stuff, we make choices and to an extent I agree and understand what you mean, but even in my personal walk God made it VERY clear I did nothing. I was at the end of my rope in life, I was at a place where I didn't even want to live anymore, my 2 sons are the only reason I didn't help death along. I wasn't raised in the church or anything like that, then after growing up as wild as you can imagine my first son was born. At this point I now could not still claim atheism, after seeing life come into the world I knew there was something more. My wife was saved not to terribly long after Kris was born and slowly I was attracted to this Jesus guy. I said the magic prayer, and was even dunked under water, but did NOT know Him, was still the same exact person I always was.

Life went on, and was going real good, had another son with my high school girlfriend, now wife, a good job, everything the world tells us we want and is important. I was just basking in all my accomplishment the day I was in a motorcycle wreck, I woke up two and a half weeks later with no function in my right arm. This led to a 2 year downward spiral of me want to kill myself every 5 minutes of every day. I was at the end of my rope with nowhere to go, I wasn't seeking God, if I had ever believed in Him I definitely didn't at this point, and this was when I hit my knees. I didn't say "Jesus help me", or "God I'm ready now", I thought I knew what all that "Christian God stuff" was about. I was stuck here in the real world broken with no way to fix it, and fantasy God land wasn't going to help. I hit my knees and said "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose, and I QUIT!!".

I woke up the next day lighter and went to work, I didn't even notice anything until my lunch break at work, I realized "I haven't thought about killing myself all day". to me this was like the most profound thing ever, I was in awe, and I'm not sure how to explain it but in this moment I knew two things, first I knew that whatever happen to make me feel better was from God, second I knew Jesus was His son. I then went and grabbed a bible for the first time and started reading and quickly came to the conclusion I had been born again. It was all God, and I did nothing at all to merit it. I understand that what happen the day I hit my knees was God granting me repentance, to know that "my way" fails and to turn from it letting that old man die, but it is all God I can take no credit nor do I want any, I just want to proclaim His gospel in unimaginable gratitude for our great God. Praise Jesus mighty name, and all glory to Him.

I cry every time I hear you talk about this. And I don't think I've ever told you about the verse that comes to mind every time you give testimony of what God has done for you. Its the one that says: its better to lose an arm than your soul. (My paraphrase).

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I am lost then!! I need to work harder!

You shouldn't withhold coffee from the ox that treads and grinds the coffee beans. He will turn and trample you.

Here's a poem I read:
Coffee, coffee, coffee!
Coffee!
Everyone shut up!
Coffee, coffee, coffee!

 

[Jimbone]

I cry every time I hear you talk about this. And I don't think I've ever told you about the verse that comes to mind every time you give testimony of what God has done for you. Its the one that says: its better to lose an arm than your soul. (My paraphrase).

Thank you, Matthew 5:30 is one of them, but there are 2 more place that is said as well. It's my favorite and it's in my signature too. Thanks for the kind words, and have a great day.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

You shouldn't withhold coffee from the ox that treads and grinds the coffee beans. He will turn and trample you.

Here's a poem I read:
Coffee, coffee, coffee!
Coffee!
Everyone shut up!
Coffee, coffee, coffee!

Shouldn't that be: Thou shudst withholdeth not thy strong drink from the beast that treadeth and grindeth the produce of the field? Isaiah 78:20

 

[dcontroversal]

Example: 1 Timothy 2:15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Is there anyone who believes women must give birth for their eternal souls to be saved?
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

Exactly....how much false dogma has been imagined and taught as truth because of the word saved being used out of context while being applied in a manner that does not equate to the salvation of the soul.....Mattew 24 and enduring to the end is another such fallacy.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I think she finished it..

Men must be circumcised

Women must bare children

and if they remain in faith, they will be saved..

Sound about right huh?

Maybe not, we better throw in some water baptism just in case.

amen....the ingredients for a cafe blend, working for, vanilla self saving , false gospel cake......

 

[Magenta]

amen....the ingredients for a cafe blend, working for, vanilla self saving , false gospel cake......

Did somebody say cake?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Then why are there Bibles in prisons and people going to such places to minister to those behind bars? Some of these folks are never going to see the light of day again. Should they just kill themselves so they go to hell quicker? If baptism is such necessary for salvation, then those folks who are serving life behind bars don't stand a chance according to your statement. Your statement would then mean that there are certain things a nonbeliever can never recover from, which goes against Scripture. A murderer can become a new creation just as much as a noncriminal unbeliever.

HiJSR...My son is in prison doing life ( 16 yrs min ) and he gave his life to Jesus last year...He has not been baptized, but God is surely changing him, and I also as his mum see changes in him, especially when he writes to me ...

His hand writing has become very steady and neat, it used to be all over the place, and his letters were more like scribbled notes...God is also working on him as in the drugs he was taking inside...God is doing wonderful things in my sons life that me as his mother has been trying to do for years and failed...All the glory to God \o/...

 

[Waggles]

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;
in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband,
and he shall rule over thee.
Genesis 3:16

Given the very high infant mortality and also complications in birth
for mothers (who sometimes also died) 1Timothy 2:15 is not about
salvation by motherhood but rather a promise for Christian women
to have safe delivery of their births through their faith in Jesus.

1Timothy 2:15
(ASV) but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love
and sanctification with sobriety.
(BBE) But if they go on in faith and love and holy self-control, she will be kept safe at the
time of childbirth.
(ESV) Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness,
with self-control.
(LITV) but she will be kept safe through the childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and
holiness, with sensibleness.
(MKJV) But she will be kept safe through childbearing, if they continue in faith and love
and holiness with sensibleness.

In our Pentecostal Fellowship we have many testimonies from women who
had severe complications with their pregnancy (often being advised by doctors
to abort their child) and through prayer and faith God has given them a
safe birthing and often a child healed of their diagnosed disability.

 

[jsr1221]

HiJSR...My son is in prison doing life ( 16 yrs min ) and he gave his life to Jesus last year...He has not been baptized, but God is surely changing him, and I also as his mum see changes in him, especially when he writes to me ...

His hand writing has become very steady and neat, it used to be all over the place, and his letters were more like scribbled notes...God is also working on him as in the drugs he was taking inside...God is doing wonderful things in my sons life that me as his mother has been trying to do for years and failed...All the glory to God \o/...

Thank you Rosemary. My point was that baptism is not required to be saved. Baptism is an outward expression that states we are a new creation of God, and that He has washed us of our sins. Although your son hasn't had the ability to do so, God is certainly working in his life. I pray that your son can use his new platform to minister to other inmates around him.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Thank you Rosemary. My point was that baptism is not required to be saved. Baptism is an outward expression that states we are a new creation of God, and that He has washed us of our sins. Although your son hasn't had the ability to do so, God is certainly working in his life. I pray that your son can use his new platform to minister to other inmates around him.

It's like that with ALL the sacraments and rituals of the church. They are all speaking of inward realities, realities in spirit. The sacraments and rituals aren't the thing in itself, they are pictures of the thing. But its only a man who has experienced the thing who can see this. The man who experiences the sacraments in spirit and truth comes to see backwards almost. The sacraments are the shadows of the thing that throws the shadow but not the thing itself. But a man who hasn't experienced (or doesn't yet understand his experience) will insist that the shadow is the real and will think the bread and wine of communion ARE the real and that a water baptism IS the real baptism.

Then the man who has experienced the real will be thought to be seeing things upside down when its the opposite that is really happening.

This reminds me of something I learned in a college biology class. Did you know that humans see things upside down? Something in the eye then turns the image the other way. So we see upside down until something in us causes us to see right side up.

I remember thinking in class, well gosh, this is a picture of a spiritual reality hidden in the eye of a human!

 

[Metternich]

Acts 2:88
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Ac 2:38). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Mt 26:28
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Mt 26:28). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Both "fors" in red are the same greek word Strongs1519 eis. In the second passage you cannot deny that it means leading to and so it does in the first passage.

Conclusion: Water baptism is necessary for salvation and this is what Jesus meant by being born of water.

 

[Metternich]

Acts 2:88
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[FONT=&quot] The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Ac 2:38). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.[/FONT]

Mt 26:28
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
[FONT=&quot] The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Mt 26:28). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Both "fors" in red are the same greek word Strongs1519 eis. In the second passage you cannot deny that it means leading to and so it does in the first passage.

Conclusion: Water baptism is necessary for salvation and this is what Jesus meant by being born of water.[/FONT]

 

[Nehemiah6]

Conclusion: Water baptism is necessary for salvation and this is what Jesus meant by being born of water.

If this is indeed true then the apostle Paul could never have made this statement:

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. ( 1 Cor 1:17).

That would have said For Christ sent me to baptize AND to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

There is no way that baptism can be regarded as essential to salvation. The gift of the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey the Gospel, and are SUBSEQUENTLY baptized. Please study Acts of the Apostles, especially chapters 2 and 10, but the whole book.

 

[Metternich]

Just a few verses before this in 14 he says he baptized Crispus and Gaius. Paul says he was sent to preach. That was his gift from God. That does not mean that disciples of his took care of the baptisms while Paul preached.

 

[John146]

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is the most clear definition of the gospel of Jesus Christ found in Scripture and there is no mention of baptism.

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

No baptism mentioned. One would think if baptism was essential for salvation, surely Paul would have mentioned it here.

 

[Sagart]

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is the most clear definition of the gospel of Jesus Christ found in Scripture and there is no mention of baptism.

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

No baptism mentioned. One would think if baptism was essential for salvation, surely Paul would have mentioned it here.

No faith mentioned. One would think if faith was essential for salvation, surely Paul would have mentioned it here.

 

[John146]

No faith mentioned. One would think if faith was essential for salvation, surely Paul would have mentioned it here.

Paul uses the word believe when connecting the gospel unto salvation. Believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Believe is the word.

 

[Sagart]

If this is indeed true then the apostle Paul could never have made this statement:

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. ( 1 Cor 1:17).

That would have said For Christ sent me to baptize AND to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1 Cor. 3:6. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.

There is no way that baptism can be regarded as essential to salvation. The gift of the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey the Gospel, and are SUBSEQUENTLY baptized. Please study Acts of the Apostles, especially chapters 2 and 10, but the whole book.

There is every way that baptism can be regarded as essential to salvation. The gift of the Holy Spirit is given to those who believe the Gospel and are baptized. Please study Acts of the Apostles, especially chapter 2, and 1 :Peter 3.

Acts 2:38. Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

1 Peter 3:18. For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19. in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
20. who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
21. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22. who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. (NASB, 1995)