What does this mean: “Baptism now saves us”?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#1
... while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 3:20, 21)

This passage is one that is not easily understood or interpreted. Since water baptism does not really save anyone, what could be the meaning of linking Noah’s Ark to water baptism?

...Eight souls were saved by water

Since we know that eight souls (Noah and his family) were saved by the Ark, how could they be saved by water? The only explanation is that because the Ark was a water-tight “ship” it was always afloat throughout the time of the flood, so the water surrounding the Ark “saved” those inside simply by keeping the Ark afloat. And the Ark was “baptized” (immersed) in the torrential rains which accompanied the Flood and added to it, but was eventually “resurrected” when the flood subsided, and the Ark landed on Mount Ararat.

The like figure...

The Greek word for “figure” is antitupon (“antitype”) – a representation, pattern, or image of a spiritual reality or person which would then be the “type”. So water baptism is the “type” and the Ark in the flood waters is the antitype.

Even baptism doth also now save us...

Thus just as the Flood waters did not literally save Noah’s family, but indirectly contributed to their deliverance from the Flood, so water baptism does not literally save anyone, but contributes to the sanctification of the believer. This is the only way to understand “even baptism doth also now save us”. Sanctification is a part of salvation, which begins with justification and ends with glorification.

We know that Christian baptism is a commandment of the Lord, and it is imperative that every believer be baptized immediately or almost immediately upon conversion. The Acts of the Apostles makes this crystal clear. So it is in reality the first step in the sanctification of the saint – obedience to the commandment of Christ, and a recognition that the sinner “died” with Christ and also “rose again” with Him through symbolic death, burial, and resurrection in baptism by immersion.

Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh...

This makes it crystal clear that water baptism has nothing to do with normal bathing, neither does it have anything to do with cleansing the spiritual “filth of the flesh” (the vile and filthy sins of the sinner). Only the blood of Jesus Christ God’s Son can cleanse the soul from the guilt and defilement of sin.

But the answer of a good conscience toward God...

A person will have a good conscience towards God when he or she has done exactly what God has commanded. God commands all men everywhere to repent. So repentance is a necessity for salvation to be genuine. God also commands all men to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. So faith in the Person and finished work of Christ is a necessity for salvation. But then God commands every believer to be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. So when a person has been born again, their first desire must be to be baptized by immersion in obedience to Christ. Therefore all of this is the answer of a good conscience toward God.

By the resurrection of Jesus Christ

The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is the key to understanding the significance of water baptism. The Bible says that Christ rose again for our justification. We could not have been justified by grace through faith unless the Lord had experienced His death, burial, and resurrection. Since He paid the sin debt in full, God’s grace could freely flow towards sinful humanity in salvation. But in order to make Christ’s resurrection power a reality in the life of the believer, he or she too must symbolically die, be buried, and rise again “to walk in newness of life”. What the saint tells the world through water baptism is that he is dead to his old sinful life and sinful ways, and alive exclusively to Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit (who could only be given as a gift after the resurrection of Christ).
 

jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
4,265
77
48
#2
Baptism itself does not save us. People on the brink of death have the opportunity to still acknowledge Christ as their Savior. It's hard to do a baptism if someone is in ICU or Hospice.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#3
... while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 3:20, 21)

This passage is one that is not easily understood or interpreted. Since water baptism does not really save anyone, what could be the meaning of linking Noah’s Ark to water baptism?

...Eight souls were saved by water

Since we know that eight souls (Noah and his family) were saved by the Ark, how could they be saved by water? The only explanation is that because the Ark was a water-tight “ship” it was always afloat throughout the time of the flood, so the water surrounding the Ark “saved” those inside simply by keeping the Ark afloat. And the Ark was “baptized” (immersed) in the torrential rains which accompanied the Flood and added to it, but was eventually “resurrected” when the flood subsided, and the Ark landed on Mount Ararat.

The like figure...

The Greek word for “figure” is antitupon (“antitype”) – a representation, pattern, or image of a spiritual reality or person which would then be the “type”. So water baptism is the “type” and the Ark in the flood waters is the antitype.

Even baptism doth also now save us...

Thus just as the Flood waters did not literally save Noah’s family, but indirectly contributed to their deliverance from the Flood, so water baptism does not literally save anyone, but contributes to the sanctification of the believer. This is the only way to understand “even baptism doth also now save us”. Sanctification is a part of salvation, which begins with justification and ends with glorification.

We know that Christian baptism is a commandment of the Lord, and it is imperative that every believer be baptized immediately or almost immediately upon conversion. The Acts of the Apostles makes this crystal clear. So it is in reality the first step in the sanctification of the saint – obedience to the commandment of Christ, and a recognition that the sinner “died” with Christ and also “rose again” with Him through symbolic death, burial, and resurrection in baptism by immersion.

Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh...

This makes it crystal clear that water baptism has nothing to do with normal bathing, neither does it have anything to do with cleansing the spiritual “filth of the flesh” (the vile and filthy sins of the sinner). Only the blood of Jesus Christ God’s Son can cleanse the soul from the guilt and defilement of sin.

But the answer of a good conscience toward God...

A person will have a good conscience towards God when he or she has done exactly what God has commanded. God commands all men everywhere to repent. So repentance is a necessity for salvation to be genuine. God also commands all men to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. So faith in the Person and finished work of Christ is a necessity for salvation. But then God commands every believer to be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. So when a person has been born again, their first desire must be to be baptized by immersion in obedience to Christ. Therefore all of this is the answer of a good conscience toward God.

By the resurrection of Jesus Christ

The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is the key to understanding the significance of water baptism. The Bible says that Christ rose again for our justification. We could not have been justified by grace through faith unless the Lord had experienced His death, burial, and resurrection. Since He paid the sin debt in full, God’s grace could freely flow towards sinful humanity in salvation. But in order to make Christ’s resurrection power a reality in the life of the believer, he or she too must symbolically die, be buried, and rise again “to walk in newness of life”. What the saint tells the world through water baptism is that he is dead to his old sinful life and sinful ways, and alive exclusively to Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit (who could only be given as a gift after the resurrection of Christ).
spiritual “filth of the flesh” (the vile and filthy sins of the sinner).
You stuck the word "spiritual" in there, changing the meaning of the purpose of baptism. That is your doing, it is not written as such in scripture. Peter is expressing the uniqueness of baptism as the point that saves and not a simple ritual bath.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#4
Baptism itself does not save us. People on the brink of death have the opportunity to still acknowledge Christ as their Savior. It's hard to do a baptism if someone is in ICU or Hospice.
1st Peter states otherwise. Today is the day of salvation, to wait until you are in ICU is unwise and dangerous. Ecclesiastes 12:1-7

No one is promised extra time.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#5
1st Peter states otherwise. Today is the day of salvation, to wait until you are in ICU is unwise and dangerous. Ecclesiastes 12:1-7

No one is promised extra time.
Its a good thing your not God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#7
Hate to bust your bubble but God wrote Ecclesiastes 12:1-7. Look it up sometime.
Hate to bust your bubble. But you have till the time you take your last breath to repent. The thief on the cross proved that, He died right after he was saved. (And he was never baptised by the way)

Granted, no onbe knows when we will die, so we should repent now and not way (today is the day of salvation) but as long as we still breath, we have hope.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,623
1,381
113
#8
Hate to bust your bubble. But you have till the time you take your last breath to repent. The thief on the cross proved that, He died right after he was saved. (And he was never baptised by the way)

Granted, no onbe knows when we will die, so we should repent now and not way (today is the day of salvation) but as long as we still breath, we have hope.
How many other salvations happened that way? Where else in scripture is there a story of someone simply accepting Jesus and not being baptized?

This was a one-off kind of thing, and Jesus personally made that call.

If it was not a necessary thing, why would Jesus' last words to his followers be to go and make disciples of all nations...baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit?

If it is not necessary, why would Jesus tell them/us to do it?

Understanding this is easy. Trying to "prove" it's not necessary requires a lot of convoluted thinking, and the ignoring of many, many scriptures.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#9
It means what it says “Baptism now saves us.” How? Well only one thing saves us- which is Christ’s blood, and baptism is how we come in contact with that blood (spiritually) (Romans 6:3). During baptism God performs circumcision of the heart (spiritually) with Christ’s blood.

“With flames of fire
(hell) He will take vengence on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel (baptism) of His Son.”
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#10
Hate to bust your bubble. But you have till the time you take your last breath to repent. The thief on the cross proved that, He died right after he was saved. (And he was never baptised by the way)

Granted, no onbe knows when we will die, so we should repent now and not way (today is the day of salvation) but as long as we still breath, we have hope.
Hornet guy beat me to the punch. But tell me, how do you know the thief on the cross was not water baptized for the remission of sins? I have heard other trust only believers say this but never have had one of them tell me why they think this.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
Hornet guy beat me to the punch. But tell me, how do you know the thief on the cross was not water baptized for the remission of sins? I have heard other trust only believers say this but never have had one of them tell me why they think this.

Lol. You tell me,

didthey take him off the cross. Take him to the river, and immerse him in water?

The fact Jesus told him that he would be with him that evening in paradise based on only his profession of faith. Proves he was saved at that moment.

Same with the tax collector. He went home justified because he called out on the name of the lord to be saved. Not because he got wet.

 

anindoorcat

Junior Member
Jun 27, 2014
3
2
0
#12
The NT is full of folks who got Baptised and we do not know if they believed on Christ.. (John the Baptists ministry for one) I believe water baptism is a sign of repentance... it does not wash away original sin...as many denominations teach.. IMO what saves someone is faith in Jesus as Messiah..when His Holy life, His resurection and His precious blood are creditied to us and the blood washes us..continually. PERIOD. No doubt that thru the centuries..MANY have been saved by faith...ALONE.. and may have never been water baptised..(by the way...is emmersion the only one that counts?) Is baptism a "work?" Moreover, Many are in heaven without ever hearing the name of Christ..read Hebrews (Abraham, Joseph, Issacc...Rahab the gentile prostitute......)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
It means what it says “Baptism now saves us.” How? Well only one thing saves us- which is Christ’s blood, and baptism is how we come in contact with that blood (spiritually) (Romans 6:3). During baptism God performs circumcision of the heart (spiritually) with Christ’s blood.

“With flames of fire
(hell) He will take vengence on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel (baptism) of His Son.”

Romans 6 is not water baptism, it is spiritual baptism

beingt baptised into his death is the acts of God immersing us into Christy death Watert is not involved, and no greek speaking person in Rome at the time would have even thought water.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
How many other salvations happened that way? Where else in scripture is there a story of someone simply accepting Jesus and not being baptized?

This was a one-off kind of thing, and Jesus personally made that call.

If it was not a necessary thing, why would Jesus' last words to his followers be to go and make disciples of all nations...baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit?

If it is not necessary, why would Jesus tell them/us to do it?

Understanding this is easy. Trying to "prove" it's not necessary requires a lot of convoluted thinking, and the ignoring of many, many scriptures.

God said circumcision was necessary, How many people did that save?

God said assembling ourselves together was necessary, How many people did that save?

God said loving our enemy was necessary, how many people were saved by doing that?

God said making disciples was necessary, how many people were saved by making disciples?

God gave many commands, and he said they were to be followed. But these works do not save us, We do them because we love God, and we have faith in God. So we trust he will not lead us astray.

but they do not save us, they are a result of salvation. otherwise we are saved by works, Not grace.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#15
Lol. You tell me,

didthey take him off the cross. Take him to the river, and immerse him in water?

The fact Jesus told him that he would be with him that evening in paradise based on only his profession of faith. Proves he was saved at that moment.

Same with the tax collector. He went home justified because he called out on the name of the lord to be saved. Not because he got wet.

didthey take him off the cross. Take him to the river, and immerse him in water?
Did it never occur to you that he was baptized before he was sentenced to death??

John the Baptist and his followers was baptizing for the remission of sins before the ministry of Jesus. Mark 1:4

Jesus's disciples were baptizing for years before His death as well. Is it not possible that the thief on the cross was at one time among this group before falling into crime? How could you not see this obvious possibility?

Its an assumption but so is stating that the thief on the cross was not baptized.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,715
113
#16
You stuck the word "spiritual" in there, changing the meaning of the purpose of baptism. That is your doing, it is not written as such in scripture. Peter is expressing the uniqueness of baptism as the point that saves and not a simple ritual bath.
Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit of God :) Baptism is a picture, the reality is found in Christ. If one misses that, they have failed to grasp the meaning and purpose of baptism, no matter how many times they may get dunked.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#17
Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit of God :) Baptism is a picture, the reality is found in Christ. If one misses that, they have failed to grasp the meaning and purpose of baptism, no matter how many times they may get dunked.
Regardless if it is a picture, the bible states that this "picture" is so that your sins will be forgiven. Making it a pretty important picture to me.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#18
You stuck the word "spiritual" in there, changing the meaning of the purpose of baptism. That is your doing, it is not written as such in scripture. Peter is expressing the uniqueness of baptism as the point that saves and not a simple ritual bath.
Yes, putting that word "spiritual" was appropriate. Not only were "ritual baths" excluded, but "the filth of the flesh" pertains to the sins of the flesh, and Peter speaks on them in 2 Pet 3:7-18:

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked... The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities....For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Water cannot possible wash away this spiritual filth. Only the blood of Christ has the power to do that.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
#19
God carries us into His death so that only what is of God remains: Immersed in the death and resurrection of Christ and carried By the Holy Spirit to the Resurrection. Only possible by His Spirit, and why rejecting Him cant be forgiven.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#20
Yes, putting that word "spiritual" was appropriate. Not only were "ritual baths" excluded, but "the filth of the flesh" pertains to the sins of the flesh, and Peter speaks on them in 2 Pet 3:7-18:

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked... The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities....For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Water cannot possible wash away this spiritual filth. Only the blood of Christ has the power to do that.
Peter did not seem to need the word to convey his message. Just you.

Water cannot possible wash away this spiritual filth. Only the blood of Christ has the power to do that
Your generalities are showing. God can use whatever He wants to wash away sins. He is not limited to your senseabilities or understandings. If God wants sins to be forgiven at water baptism you have no say in the matter.