I don't follow Rick Warren. I don't know if he is a false prophet. I do know that thanks to him and John Baker, though, there is this tremendous Christian recovery program called Celebrate Recovery. It's helped my life like it has many millions of others. I believe it's important, though, to check what any pastor says. Not just a popular one like Warren. If we just blindly go to church each week listening to our pastors without ever reading the Bible for ourselves, we become sheep that are being led to the slaughter house.
Rick Warren - Heretic or Theologically Confused?
- Thread starter Angela53510
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So, you are saying what spoke to you in the article was the electricity metaphor, which although very limited in scope, relates to your idea of "unction" which means "anointing." In Greek, the word is [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]χρῖσμα[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] which means anointing, originally with oil, and according to Bauer (BDAG) "usually taken to me anointing by the Holy Spirit."
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Unction is just an old fashioned word for anointing, my search in old word dictionaries tell me!
I just wish you could see past your obsession with "anointing" and read the whole part about "giving to get" and misuse of Phil. 4:13, which was about God helping you when you suffer, especially for his sake.
Well, it is what it is! And I agree with you that we cannot move in our own will! God's will is the direction we all needed to be headed. I just wish Warren had been spelled out in the blog!
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Unction is just an old fashioned word for anointing, my search in old word dictionaries tell me!
I just wish you could see past your obsession with "anointing" and read the whole part about "giving to get" and misuse of Phil. 4:13, which was about God helping you when you suffer, especially for his sake.
Well, it is what it is! And I agree with you that we cannot move in our own will! God's will is the direction we all needed to be headed. I just wish Warren had been spelled out in the blog!
Hmmmm. I'd be really cautious in condemning Warren to hell and calling him satanic. That's way above our pay grade.
I don't accept his teachings, but I'm not going to go around and guarantee he is heading to hell like some are.
Imagine that coming from a "Calvinist" of whom many have said I don't count anyone but a "Calvinist" as saved. LOL!
I don't accept his teachings, but I'm not going to go around and guarantee he is heading to hell like some are.
Imagine that coming from a "Calvinist" of whom many have said I don't count anyone but a "Calvinist" as saved. LOL!
No, didn't say that electricity was what spoke to me. I said that I just saw a teaching on faith and moving in power.
Angela, unction and anointing may be the same action of Holy Spirit, but it's when one has experienced Holy Spirit coming upon, and then also coming up from the belly, there's no misunderstanding.
I saw what he was saying. If one didn't have some truth, no one would follow. If he is the one who created chrislam, and I think he is, then he's not who I would sit under, nor fellowship with.
If you want to tear him apart that would be what I would choose, but is not my ministry.
Angela, unction and anointing may be the same action of Holy Spirit, but it's when one has experienced Holy Spirit coming upon, and then also coming up from the belly, there's no misunderstanding.
I saw what he was saying. If one didn't have some truth, no one would follow. If he is the one who created chrislam, and I think he is, then he's not who I would sit under, nor fellowship with.
If you want to tear him apart that would be what I would choose, but is not my ministry.
If you have no interest in Rick Warren (not an issue, I really don't either!) then why bother commenting and posting verses which have nothing to do with the OP, or the verse which he used to start his blog?
As far as the verses you have posted, I looked them up in context, and in modern English. They are in context of a fuller address Jesus is giving, including the Lord's prayer. The Luke version concentrates on the parts about asking God for forgiveness of sins, and the line about not being brought into temptation.
It is interesting Jesus continues with this verse, about getting anything you want if you pray hard enough. Except, does it in fact say that? I think it is more about the need to seek God! What are you asking for? What are you seeking? What door are you knocking on?
Jesus says we need to seek God, for what purpose? To get 3 loaves of bread? No, the verse, finishes, and I notice you purposely left it off, with the moral of the story.
"If you then, although you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” Luke 11:13 NET[FONT="]
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We are to seek God for the Holy Spirit. And another interesting point is that the Holy Spirit had not yet been poured out, for it was promised to the disciples when Jesus ascended as "another helper, another comforter, another advocate." The paraclete, or [FONT="][/FONT]ὁ παράκλητος[FONT="] is the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]That is what Jesus is talking about in your posted verses.
"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me, 27 and you also will testify, because you have been with me from the beginning." John 15:26-27
You probably don't know me yet, but the reason for these repeated exegetical mistakes you make, is you fail to recognize context. And that means not dropping the point Jesus is making in the passage in your post.
Context, means looking at the verses around the key verse, and seeing what Jesus was really saying. It is too easy to pull a part of a verse out of context, or even a passage, as you did, and miss the whole point.
Context, context, context, I always say!
In any event, you post is totally off-topic, and I will not be answering any of these rabbit trails of yours. If you actually want to stick with the topic, I would be glad to discuss it with you. And if you don't like or care about what Rick Warren is posting, then kindly don't bother with this thread.
PS. By dropping verse Luke 11:13 off of your passage, you basically walked into the area I would say is heresy. Heresy is taking the Word of God, and twisting it to prove what you want. (Eisegesis or reading INTO Scripture!) You came up with Word Faith doctrine, by leaving off the part about seeking God to get the Holy Spirit. Not about getting things for yourself. Which is my whole objection to the blog by Rick Warren!
As far as the verses you have posted, I looked them up in context, and in modern English. They are in context of a fuller address Jesus is giving, including the Lord's prayer. The Luke version concentrates on the parts about asking God for forgiveness of sins, and the line about not being brought into temptation.
It is interesting Jesus continues with this verse, about getting anything you want if you pray hard enough. Except, does it in fact say that? I think it is more about the need to seek God! What are you asking for? What are you seeking? What door are you knocking on?
Jesus says we need to seek God, for what purpose? To get 3 loaves of bread? No, the verse, finishes, and I notice you purposely left it off, with the moral of the story.
"If you then, although you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” Luke 11:13 NET[FONT="]
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We are to seek God for the Holy Spirit. And another interesting point is that the Holy Spirit had not yet been poured out, for it was promised to the disciples when Jesus ascended as "another helper, another comforter, another advocate." The paraclete, or [FONT="][/FONT]ὁ παράκλητος[FONT="] is the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]That is what Jesus is talking about in your posted verses.
"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me, 27 and you also will testify, because you have been with me from the beginning." John 15:26-27
You probably don't know me yet, but the reason for these repeated exegetical mistakes you make, is you fail to recognize context. And that means not dropping the point Jesus is making in the passage in your post.
Context, means looking at the verses around the key verse, and seeing what Jesus was really saying. It is too easy to pull a part of a verse out of context, or even a passage, as you did, and miss the whole point.
Context, context, context, I always say!
In any event, you post is totally off-topic, and I will not be answering any of these rabbit trails of yours. If you actually want to stick with the topic, I would be glad to discuss it with you. And if you don't like or care about what Rick Warren is posting, then kindly don't bother with this thread.
PS. By dropping verse Luke 11:13 off of your passage, you basically walked into the area I would say is heresy. Heresy is taking the Word of God, and twisting it to prove what you want. (Eisegesis or reading INTO Scripture!) You came up with Word Faith doctrine, by leaving off the part about seeking God to get the Holy Spirit. Not about getting things for yourself. Which is my whole objection to the blog by Rick Warren!
Just looked into him being the founder of Chrislam and the internet has much about it, on both sides. John Piper is against this concept, and is not happy with Warren signing a document that finds too much commonalty between Islam and Christ. This is the text of that document.
"What is common between us lies not in something marginal nor in something merely important to each. It lies, rather, in something absolutely central to both: love of God and love of neighbor. Surprisingly for many Christians, your letter considers the dual command of love to be the foundational principle not just of the Christian faith, but of Islam as well. That so much common ground exists – common ground in some of the fundamentals of faith – gives hope that undeniable differences and even the very real external pressures that bear down upon us can not overshadow the common ground upon which we stand together. That this common ground consists in love of God and of neighbor gives hope that deep cooperation between us can be a hallmark of the relations between our two communities…
…Abandoning all “hatred and strife,” we must engage in interfaith dialogue as those who seek each other’s good, for the one God unceasingly seeks our good. Indeed, together with you we believe that we need to move beyond “a polite ecumenical dialogue between selected religious leaders” and work diligently together to reshape relations between our communities and our nations so that they genuinely reflect our common love for God and for one another…
…We are persuaded that our next step should be for our leaders at every level to meet together and begin the earnest work of determining how God would have us fulfill the requirement that we love God and one another. It is with humility and hope that we receive your generous letter, and we commit ourselves to labor together in heart, soul, mind and strength for the objectives you so appropriately propose.
…We are persuaded that our next step should be for our leaders at every level to meet together and begin the earnest work of determining how God would have us fulfill the requirement that we love God and one another. It is with humility and hope that we receive your generous letter, and we commit ourselves to labor together in heart, soul, mind and strength for the objectives you so appropriately propose.
This does not point out that the God of Islam and the Jesus of Islam are very different that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Jesus who died on the cross for our sins, and is God. Piper has a good article on this, quoted in this article.
https://airocross.com/2012/02/28/john-piper-on-rick-warrens-chrislam/
In this article from 2012, Rick Warren definitively declares, that he does NOT believe in Chrislam, although it was all over the news for a long time.
I do think this is important to discuss. As P4T said, we are not here to judge Warren's salvation, but, we can discuss his doctrine. He is orthodox as far as what the basic doctrines of Christianity are. BUT, he seems to have fallen into error in this blog, in the OP.
"[FONT="]The primary talking point of the controversy appears to be the question as whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God.[/FONT][FONT="]Warren's answer: "Of course not. Christians have a view of God that is unique. We believe Jesus is God! We believe God is a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not three separate gods but one God. No other faith believes Jesus is God. My God is Jesus. The belief in God as a Trinity is the foundational difference between Christians and everyone else. There are 2.1 billion people who call themselves Christians… whether Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Pentecostal, or Evangelical… and they all have the doctrine of the Trinity in common."
https://www.christianpost.com/news/...t-muslims-christians-view-god-the-same-70767/
Again, the question I am asking, in context of the blog I linked, is:
"Are we instructed as Christians to give to God so we can get?"
I think that is bad doctrine and can't be supported anywhere Biblically, and especially not with the Scripture Phil. 4:13, that Warren posted as the jumping off point of his blog!
I guess I needed to make that the title! [/FONT]
Hmmmm. I'd be really cautious in condemning Warren to hell and calling him satanic. That's way above our pay grade.
I don't accept his teachings, but I'm not going to go around and guarantee he is heading to hell like some are.
Imagine that coming from a "Calvinist" of whom many have said I don't count anyone but a "Calvinist" as saved. LOL!
I don't accept his teachings, but I'm not going to go around and guarantee he is heading to hell like some are.
Imagine that coming from a "Calvinist" of whom many have said I don't count anyone but a "Calvinist" as saved. LOL!
If he was a new Christian, I would agree with you 100%. But, he is a pastor, has an MDiv from a Southern Baptist seminary. And he leads a big church and has written best selling books on the Christian life.
So, is he misled, or is he the one misleading? I say this, because it is a friend who often falls into doctrinal error about things that posted it. I did sort of chew her out, in my response to her posting this blog, and then second guessed myself, and wanted to hear what others thought about the blog, who didn't go off topic.
Because, a teacher does have great responsibility, and IMHO, this blog is misleading and deceiving.
"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness." James 3:1
And you "Calvinists" are always judging, right!?? LOL
Well I read pretty much all this forum up and down, and rarely comment. The reason I chose to comment here was more for the interest in the subject of faith and the power of God. Also as I mentioned before, the verse which I posted simply jumped into my mind as I read your OP and so I figured I'd share it since God shared it with me, praise the Lord Jesus Christ.
As for the more recent verses posted, indeed it is about seeking God, it is another example of faith and how God gives good things to his faithful children, for if the wicked being evil can give good things to their children, then indeed God whom is the penultimate good will give good things to his faithful.
As for mistakes, I do not think the Bible is mistaken. As for you, perhaps you are mistaken because you have something against this Rick Warren fellow? Maybe you do or maybe you don't, I know him not and he is of little consequence to me, I am more interested in the heart of the topic being faithfulness and God's actions towards the faithful and its application to the Bible.
As for context I think the context is very plain, the context is about praying, faith, God, and how God interacts with the faithful. I do not think my post is off topic if the topic is about faithfulness and God, and whether or not it is a heresy to believe that God will reward the faithful (for which cause I do not believe it to be a heresy for the reason of the verses of the Gospels plainly stating as much).
As for heresy, heresy is by definition an opinion or belief contrary to the orthodox opinion or doctrine, in the case of Christianity, the orthodox doctrine is the Bible. I would ask again; how can the Bible being the orthodox doctrine of Christianity, be a heresy?
As for this "Word Faith doctrine", I do not know what that is unless you mean to have faith in the Word of God, whom is the Lord Jesus Christ.
As for the more recent verses posted, indeed it is about seeking God, it is another example of faith and how God gives good things to his faithful children, for if the wicked being evil can give good things to their children, then indeed God whom is the penultimate good will give good things to his faithful.
As for mistakes, I do not think the Bible is mistaken. As for you, perhaps you are mistaken because you have something against this Rick Warren fellow? Maybe you do or maybe you don't, I know him not and he is of little consequence to me, I am more interested in the heart of the topic being faithfulness and God's actions towards the faithful and its application to the Bible.
As for context I think the context is very plain, the context is about praying, faith, God, and how God interacts with the faithful. I do not think my post is off topic if the topic is about faithfulness and God, and whether or not it is a heresy to believe that God will reward the faithful (for which cause I do not believe it to be a heresy for the reason of the verses of the Gospels plainly stating as much).
As for heresy, heresy is by definition an opinion or belief contrary to the orthodox opinion or doctrine, in the case of Christianity, the orthodox doctrine is the Bible. I would ask again; how can the Bible being the orthodox doctrine of Christianity, be a heresy?
As for this "Word Faith doctrine", I do not know what that is unless you mean to have faith in the Word of God, whom is the Lord Jesus Christ.
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The whole article:
“For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength” (Philippians 4:13 NLT).
A right relationship with Jesus is foundational to every area of your life.
Through a secure relationship with Jesus, you can grow and change in ways that are impossible to do without one. In truth, we can’t accomplish anything without God: “For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength”(Philippians 4:13 NLT).
The challenge can seem impossible when we make any major change in our lives. Of course, it’s impossible when we try to do it on our own! But God’s strength working through our faith will turn the impossible into the possible.
That’s why it takes faith to what God wants you to do. You’ll never be able to do it on your own. You were never intended to be able to! Anything you can do in your own strength doesn’t require faith, and when faith is not required, we’re living faithlessly.
When you come to Christ in acknowledgement of your weaknesses, he often turns your greatest weakness into your greatest strength. But that only happens through God’s power. The Bible tells us there’s a direct connection between faith and power. The more faith you have in God, the more power and the more blessings you will have in your life.
Jesus illustrated this in Matthew 13, where he went for a visit in his hometown, Nazareth. The Bible says Jesus did not do many miracles of power in his hometown because of people’s lack of faith.
God blesses people who are not afraid to trust him completely. When you give him your trust, God fills you with his power. In the Bible, Abraham is considered the father of faith. It says, “He didn’t doubt God’s promise out of a lack of faith. Instead, giving honor to God for the promise, he became strong because of faith” (Romans 4:20 GW).
Without God’s power in your life, you’re just running on your own energy. And that’s like having a laptop that’s unplugged; the battery will eventually drain and all the power will be gone. Why would you live like that?
Think of it like this: You’ve got a small battery in you. You can run through life on your own power, which means you’ll be tired all the time.
Or you have access to God’s power plant, provided you just plug in and admit you need God’s help. God has unlimited power to sustain your life and mission.
“For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength” (Philippians 4:13 NLT).
A right relationship with Jesus is foundational to every area of your life.
Through a secure relationship with Jesus, you can grow and change in ways that are impossible to do without one. In truth, we can’t accomplish anything without God: “For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength”(Philippians 4:13 NLT).
The challenge can seem impossible when we make any major change in our lives. Of course, it’s impossible when we try to do it on our own! But God’s strength working through our faith will turn the impossible into the possible.
That’s why it takes faith to what God wants you to do. You’ll never be able to do it on your own. You were never intended to be able to! Anything you can do in your own strength doesn’t require faith, and when faith is not required, we’re living faithlessly.
When you come to Christ in acknowledgement of your weaknesses, he often turns your greatest weakness into your greatest strength. But that only happens through God’s power. The Bible tells us there’s a direct connection between faith and power. The more faith you have in God, the more power and the more blessings you will have in your life.
Jesus illustrated this in Matthew 13, where he went for a visit in his hometown, Nazareth. The Bible says Jesus did not do many miracles of power in his hometown because of people’s lack of faith.
God blesses people who are not afraid to trust him completely. When you give him your trust, God fills you with his power. In the Bible, Abraham is considered the father of faith. It says, “He didn’t doubt God’s promise out of a lack of faith. Instead, giving honor to God for the promise, he became strong because of faith” (Romans 4:20 GW).
Without God’s power in your life, you’re just running on your own energy. And that’s like having a laptop that’s unplugged; the battery will eventually drain and all the power will be gone. Why would you live like that?
Think of it like this: You’ve got a small battery in you. You can run through life on your own power, which means you’ll be tired all the time.
Or you have access to God’s power plant, provided you just plug in and admit you need God’s help. God has unlimited power to sustain your life and mission.
Well thank you for posting that. If that is indeed the article in question, then indeed I see nothing heretical here in it. Now as I said I know nothing of this Rick Warren fellow, perhaps he is a heretic in other matters, and maybe he is not, but I see nothing heretical in this article here.
Funny enough I see an irony here, that the OP, while clearly disliking this fellow Rick Warren, is saying basically the same thing which this fellow is saying but in a different manner; which is in paraphrase that one must believe in God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and his Holy Spirit to be blessed by God. I think then there is not much more for me to say without simply just repeating ourselves in an endless circle and will take my leave of this topic with some praise to the Lord Jesus Christ for a good study on the nature of faith, God, and the Bible, praise the Lord God Almighty.
Funny enough I see an irony here, that the OP, while clearly disliking this fellow Rick Warren, is saying basically the same thing which this fellow is saying but in a different manner; which is in paraphrase that one must believe in God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and his Holy Spirit to be blessed by God. I think then there is not much more for me to say without simply just repeating ourselves in an endless circle and will take my leave of this topic with some praise to the Lord Jesus Christ for a good study on the nature of faith, God, and the Bible, praise the Lord God Almighty.
"The more faith you have in God, the more power and the more blessings you will have in your life." This line and the title are what I strenuously object to. We don't get "more faith!" Find that in the Bible! We are given a measure of faith.
And, I did post the link to the article and asked people to read it. But perhaps this is better, it is all there to read, and be deceived. Here is a much better article on faith.
"If you read the Bible with a sensitive heart, you will often be overwhelmed with the great difficulty of many of its commands: “You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt. 5:48). “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you” (Luke 6:27-28). “So therefore, no one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions” (Luke 14:33). “Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks” (1 Thess. 5:16-18). The list could go on and on. How can we possibly obey these seemingly impossible commands of Scripture?The disciples felt overwhelmed by Jesus’ teaching in Luke 17:1-4. He told them to be on guard so that they would not cause any young believers in Him to stumble. And He said that if their brother sinned, they were to rebuke him and if he repented they were to forgive him, no matter how often the cycle was repeated. The disciples instantly realized that these were tough demands. To walk uprightly so as not to cause a new believer to stumble and to forgive someone who has wronged us are not automatic behaviors! Forgiveness especially is tough because our feelings are involved. So the disciples respond by asking the Lord to increase their faith (17:5). It was an honest request stemming from the right motives. They saw that if they wanted to fulfill these demands, they would have to have God’s strength and enabling to do it.
But Jesus’ answer (17:6) indicates that more faith is not really the issue. Faith is not measured by its quantity, but simply by its presence. A mustard seed sized faith will accomplish impossible things. The real need, Jesus says (17:7-10), is for more obedience and humility. We should view ourselves as God’s slaves who owe Him simple and unquestioning obedience. And, when we have done what He requires, we should not get puffed up with pride in our great obedience, but should simply say, “We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.” Thus …
But in this context, it seems to me that Jesus is offering a gentle correction to the disciples’ request, not a commendation of it. He is saying, “Don’t wait around for increased faith. Just a small amount of genuine faith can accomplish what is humanly impossible. Rather, focus on your duty to obey God and, when you have obeyed, don’t start thinking that you’re really something. Keep in mind at all times that you are just an unworthy slave who has done what was required of him.”
[h=3]1. When we encounter the difficult commands of Scripture, our focus should not be on more faith.[/h]At first, this sounds like heresy! Aren’t Christians supposed to be people of faith? Shouldn’t we be growing in faith? From cover to cover, the Bible rebukes unbelief and encourages faith. So why did Jesus answer as He did?
[h=4]A. THE IDEA OF “MORE FAITH” EXALTS MAN, NOT GOD.[/h]Doesn’t it? Stop and think about it. Have you ever had someone say to you, “I wish I could believe in Christ as you do, but I just don’t have as much faith as you have”? And you clear your throat and modestly say, “Aw, shucks, it’s nothing, really!” Who gets the glory there? You do! You’re the one with such great faith; the focus is on you.
Or, have you ever heard of a great Christian leader referred to as a man of great faith? Who gets the glory? The man of great faith gets the glory! And all the rest of us sigh and think, “I wish I could have such faith!” But that’s the wrong emphasis.
There is a sense in which there is no such thing as great faith; there is only faith or no faith. I realize that on two occasions Jesus commended people for their great faith (Matt. 8:10, the centurion; Matt. 15:28, the Syrophoenician woman). And, He often chastised the disciples because of their little faith (Matt. 6:30; 8:26; 14:31; 16:8). But in each case, He was commending a person who simply took God at His word and He was chastising men who did not believe God concerning the matter at hand. So the matter is not so much great faith in God, but rather faith in a great God. The smallest amount of faith links us to Christ, who is mighty.
For example, suppose that I tell you that I demonstrated great faith by driving my car over the Golden Gate Bridge. You would say to me, “That didn’t take great faith because it is a solid bridge that has carried the weight of millions of cars and trucks over the years.” To be sure, it takes faith to drive over the bridge, because you are committing your life to the ability of that bridge to bear the weight of your car. But it doesn’t require great faith, because that bridge has been proven to be trustworthy.
There may be someone who has a fear of heights and a phobia about bridges, and he edges his car out onto the Golden Gate at five miles per hour, fearing greatly that the bridge will collapse. But that’s all the faith it takes to get him across, although his journey may not be too pleasant. On the other hand, you may have a daring person who comes to a rickety old bridge that looks like it’s about to fall down. With great bravado, he guns his engine and drives his car across. You could say that he has great faith, but I would say that he is greatly stupid to commit his life to such an untrustworthy object. Maybe he can boast in his great faith. But no one can boast in great faith when the object is proven to be trustworthy.
There is no more trustworthy being in the universe than the living God! He has a track record of never failing anyone who trusted in Him throughout human history. Either we take Him at His word or we don’t. If we do trust Him, it is no credit to us. All it takes is a little grain of faith in Him, because the issue is not our great faith but our great God. Thus, I argue that the concept of “great faith” exalts man.
[h=4]B. TRUE FAITH EXALTS GOD, NOT MAN.[/h]Jesus’ point is that it is not a matter of how much faith you have, but rather, do you have faith in the living God? If so, it can accomplish great things, not because of the size of your faith, but because of the power and ability of your God. He will do mighty things through the person who trusts in Him, even if their faith is seemingly small and weak. Then the glory goes to God.
Two weeks ago, Bob and Arlene Powers and I were seated on a 747 waiting to take off from Minneapolis to Amsterdam when the pilot came on the intercom and informed us that our take off would be delayed because of an electrical problem. He assured us that they would not take off until everything was in proper working condition. So we sat there and watched as a team of mechanics searched the cabin for the source of the problem.
Well, this was too much for one young woman on board. With obvious anxiety, she told the stewardess near me that she could not fly on this plane, and she asked to be escorted off. The stewardess suggested that she talk to the pilot, and took her forward, along with her boyfriend or husband. But to my knowledge, they never came back to their seats. She simply lacked the faith to fly on that plane. But the mechanics found the problem, fixed it, and, an hour late, we took off and landed safely in Amsterdam.
I’ll be the first to grant that airplanes are made, maintained, and flown by fallible humans, and so there is the risk that they will crash. But, generally they have a safe track record and thus are worthy of our trust. If that anxious woman had just been able to have enough faith to stay on board, she would have safely reached her destination. She could have reviewed in her mind the safety record of the major airlines. She could have reminded herself of the fact that the pilot himself and the flight attendants were committing their own lives to the safety of that aircraft. Just a small amount of faith and she would have been able later to say, “My doubts were unfounded. That plane and that pilot were trustworthy.” But her lack of faith really was saying, “I don’t trust the competency of these mechanics or of the pilot.” It detracted from the “glory” or commendation that they deserved.
Even so, a lack of faith detracts from God’s glory, whereas just a small amount of faith—enough to get on board—exalts God as the faithful and powerful God that He is. How much more trustworthy is the living God than a fallible airplane and human pilot! Even when Jerusalem had been destroyed by the Babylonians and the temple was in ruins, Jeremiah could rightly say, “This I recall to my mind, therefore I have hope. The Lord’s lovingkindnesses indeed never cease, for His compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is Your faithfulness” (Lam. 3:21-23).
How does this apply to the matter at hand, that of trusting God when we’re faced with the difficult commands of Scripture? To use the example of verse 4, suppose that someone has wronged you and has asked for your forgiveness, but you are deeply hurt and you’re struggling with obeying God by granting forgiveness. Maybe the root of bitterness is as entrenched as the roots of this mulberry tree.
How much faith do you need to forgive the other person? Isn’t the answer, “As much faith as it takes to believe that God has forgiven you”? So you can pray, “Lord, I’m having difficulty obeying You by forgiving my brother. But I know that I have trusted in You to forgive my sins. I know that You did it, not because of me or my great faith, but because You are the faithful God who keeps His promises. I glorify You for Your great mercy towards me. I ask You now to be glorified through me by enabling me to forgive this person who has wronged me. Uproot this bitterness from my heart and plant it in the sea.” By getting your eyes off of you and your faith and onto God and His great mercy and faithfulness, you glorify Him. Even if your faith is as small as a mustard seed, God can uproot your bitterness and bury it forever, and He then gets the glory.
When Jesus uses the analogy of commanding a mulberry tree to be uprooted and planted in the sea, He is not suggesting that we should go around doing such things literally. Rather, He is using such a graphic illustration to say that even small faith can do what is humanly impossible because it is none other than Almighty God who works through our faith. Everyone who has truly believed in Christ for salvation has enough faith to obey the most difficult commands of Scripture, because the issue isn’t our great faith. The issue is our great God. Look to Him and He will be glorified as He works His mighty power through your weakness and small faith.
But Jesus goes on (17:7-10) to tell a parable that shifts the focus from faith to obedience and humility.
[h=3]2. When we encounter the difficult commands of Scripture, our focus should be on more obedience and humility.[/h]The Danish philosopher, Soren Kierkegaard, put his finger on the issue when he wrote, “It is hard to believe, not because it is hard to understand, but because it is hard to obey.” If we focus on increasing our faith, we will get inflated notions of our role. Even if we focus on obedience, we can easily get puffed up with how noble we are to be so obedient. So the Lord instructs us to view ourselves as God’s slaves who owe Him obedience in all things and who are unworthy of any of His blessings.
[h=4]A. WE SHOULD VIEW OURSELVES AS GOD’S SLAVES WHO OWE HIM OBEDIENCE IN ALL THINGS.[/h]Jesus is using humor here to make a point. In that culture, slaves had a very simple job description: Do everything your master commands. Period! Slaves did not give orders; they took orders. They did not negotiate with the owner what their privileges and perks would be. They didn’t join slave unions to get better working conditions or wages. They were not free to say, “I don’t like that order, so I’m not going to do it.” Slaves had to obey.
Thus when they came in after a hard day in the fields, they did not expect their owners to have dinner ready for them. They couldn’t tell the owner, “I’ve had a rough day. Get your own dinner!” They expected to come in and serve their master. And they didn’t expect him to be profuse in thanking them for all their trouble. It was their duty to serve him. Only after that could they eat their own dinner.
Duty is not the only picture. In Luke 12:37, Jesus showed us how He as the Master would graciously reverse roles and wait upon His faithful servants. The focus there was on His grace. But here He is emphasizing our responsibility to do what He commands us to do. Our focus cannot be on our feelings, but rather we must focus on our duty. I can’t picture the tired and dirty slave coming in off the field feeling like getting his master’s dinner. He felt like taking a bath and being served a nice dinner. But he had to focus on his duty as a slave.
We live in a day that encourages us to focus on our feelings. We’re even encouraged to rage against God when we feel angry because of how He has treated us! I realize that the psalmist sometimes poured out his complaint before the Lord, and I’m not suggesting that we deny or suppress our feelings. But there is a right and a wrong way to let the Sovereign of the universe know how we feel! We need to remember at all times our lowly position before Him. We are but dust and ashes in His presence. He owes us nothing; we owe Him everything. He does not owe us; He owns us as His slaves. As such, we owe Him obedience, even when His commands seem difficult.
There is no praise or glory in doing your duty. Duty is that which is expected of a person. I would venture to say that if you show up at work on time, your boss does not say, “Thank you so much for being here on time! It’s just wonderful how you do that day after day!” You’re expected to be at work on time. It’s your duty. You don’t crow about paying your bills, do you? You owe that money; you are expected to pay. The point is, we don’t earn brownie points with God for doing what He has commanded us to do. It’s expected for slaves to do what the master commands.
But, because of the human propensity toward pride, we’re all prone to get puffed up when we do our duty, especially if we start thinking how difficult it was. We think, “I’m so spiritual! I forgave my brother seven times yesterday!” Thus Jesus shows us that …
[h=4]B. WE SHOULD VIEW OURSELVES AS GOD’S SLAVES WHO ARE UNWORTHY OF ANY OF HIS BLESSINGS.[/h]Jesus concludes (17:10), “So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’” Spurgeon says that the Lord here is pouring cold water down our backs, but it is therapeutic. We need that dousing to remember our place before Him. Sometimes we get so puffed up about our years of sacrificial service or our forgiving spirit that we almost think that God owes us something. But we have no claim on God. All that we have, we have received by grace. We were lost and on the fast lane to hell when God’s mercy rescued us. He graciously gave us the privilege of serving Him. Are we then to congratulate ourselves when we obey His commands?
The Bible no where tells us that we need to grow in self-esteem, but many times it exhorts us to grow in humility. Even when we obey the most difficult commands in the Bible, we are to say of ourselves, “I am just an unworthy slave who only did that which I ought to have done.” If you struggle with pride (and who doesn’t?), I commend to you Andrew Murray’s little booklet, Humility (Christian Literature Crusade, available on our book table). You can read it in a couple of hours, but there is a lifetime of application there!
The Navigators are well known for their stress on having a servant attitude. A businessman once asked Lorne Sanny, the president of the Navigators, how he could know when he had a servant attitude. Sanny replied, “By how you act when your are treated like one.” When someone treats you like a servant, do you get offended and say, “I deserve better treatment than this?” Or, do you say, “I just got treated better than I should, because I’m not just a servant; I’m an unworthy servant”?
[h=3][/h]
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-78-more-faith-or-more-obedience-luke-175-10
And, I did post the link to the article and asked people to read it. But perhaps this is better, it is all there to read, and be deceived. Here is a much better article on faith.
"If you read the Bible with a sensitive heart, you will often be overwhelmed with the great difficulty of many of its commands: “You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt. 5:48). “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you” (Luke 6:27-28). “So therefore, no one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions” (Luke 14:33). “Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks” (1 Thess. 5:16-18). The list could go on and on. How can we possibly obey these seemingly impossible commands of Scripture?The disciples felt overwhelmed by Jesus’ teaching in Luke 17:1-4. He told them to be on guard so that they would not cause any young believers in Him to stumble. And He said that if their brother sinned, they were to rebuke him and if he repented they were to forgive him, no matter how often the cycle was repeated. The disciples instantly realized that these were tough demands. To walk uprightly so as not to cause a new believer to stumble and to forgive someone who has wronged us are not automatic behaviors! Forgiveness especially is tough because our feelings are involved. So the disciples respond by asking the Lord to increase their faith (17:5). It was an honest request stemming from the right motives. They saw that if they wanted to fulfill these demands, they would have to have God’s strength and enabling to do it.
But Jesus’ answer (17:6) indicates that more faith is not really the issue. Faith is not measured by its quantity, but simply by its presence. A mustard seed sized faith will accomplish impossible things. The real need, Jesus says (17:7-10), is for more obedience and humility. We should view ourselves as God’s slaves who owe Him simple and unquestioning obedience. And, when we have done what He requires, we should not get puffed up with pride in our great obedience, but should simply say, “We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.” Thus …
When we encounter the difficult commands of Scripture, we should not focus on more faith, but on more obedience and humility.
In taking this approach to the text, I am differing with three men of God whom I greatly respect, Charles Simeon, Charles Spurgeon and J. C. Ryle. These men treat the apostles’ request to the Lord, “Increase our faith,” as a positive model that we should follow. There is no question that the Bible encourages us to be strong in faith, growing in our faith to the point that we implicitly trust in God and His promises. I hope that nothing I say discourages anyone from growing in faith, without which it is impossible to please God. Everything we do must stem from faith or it is sin (Rom. 14:23). I would agree with these men that the prayer for more faith is one that we should often bring before God.But in this context, it seems to me that Jesus is offering a gentle correction to the disciples’ request, not a commendation of it. He is saying, “Don’t wait around for increased faith. Just a small amount of genuine faith can accomplish what is humanly impossible. Rather, focus on your duty to obey God and, when you have obeyed, don’t start thinking that you’re really something. Keep in mind at all times that you are just an unworthy slave who has done what was required of him.”
[h=3]1. When we encounter the difficult commands of Scripture, our focus should not be on more faith.[/h]At first, this sounds like heresy! Aren’t Christians supposed to be people of faith? Shouldn’t we be growing in faith? From cover to cover, the Bible rebukes unbelief and encourages faith. So why did Jesus answer as He did?
[h=4]A. THE IDEA OF “MORE FAITH” EXALTS MAN, NOT GOD.[/h]Doesn’t it? Stop and think about it. Have you ever had someone say to you, “I wish I could believe in Christ as you do, but I just don’t have as much faith as you have”? And you clear your throat and modestly say, “Aw, shucks, it’s nothing, really!” Who gets the glory there? You do! You’re the one with such great faith; the focus is on you.
Or, have you ever heard of a great Christian leader referred to as a man of great faith? Who gets the glory? The man of great faith gets the glory! And all the rest of us sigh and think, “I wish I could have such faith!” But that’s the wrong emphasis.
There is a sense in which there is no such thing as great faith; there is only faith or no faith. I realize that on two occasions Jesus commended people for their great faith (Matt. 8:10, the centurion; Matt. 15:28, the Syrophoenician woman). And, He often chastised the disciples because of their little faith (Matt. 6:30; 8:26; 14:31; 16:8). But in each case, He was commending a person who simply took God at His word and He was chastising men who did not believe God concerning the matter at hand. So the matter is not so much great faith in God, but rather faith in a great God. The smallest amount of faith links us to Christ, who is mighty.
For example, suppose that I tell you that I demonstrated great faith by driving my car over the Golden Gate Bridge. You would say to me, “That didn’t take great faith because it is a solid bridge that has carried the weight of millions of cars and trucks over the years.” To be sure, it takes faith to drive over the bridge, because you are committing your life to the ability of that bridge to bear the weight of your car. But it doesn’t require great faith, because that bridge has been proven to be trustworthy.
There may be someone who has a fear of heights and a phobia about bridges, and he edges his car out onto the Golden Gate at five miles per hour, fearing greatly that the bridge will collapse. But that’s all the faith it takes to get him across, although his journey may not be too pleasant. On the other hand, you may have a daring person who comes to a rickety old bridge that looks like it’s about to fall down. With great bravado, he guns his engine and drives his car across. You could say that he has great faith, but I would say that he is greatly stupid to commit his life to such an untrustworthy object. Maybe he can boast in his great faith. But no one can boast in great faith when the object is proven to be trustworthy.
There is no more trustworthy being in the universe than the living God! He has a track record of never failing anyone who trusted in Him throughout human history. Either we take Him at His word or we don’t. If we do trust Him, it is no credit to us. All it takes is a little grain of faith in Him, because the issue is not our great faith but our great God. Thus, I argue that the concept of “great faith” exalts man.
[h=4]B. TRUE FAITH EXALTS GOD, NOT MAN.[/h]Jesus’ point is that it is not a matter of how much faith you have, but rather, do you have faith in the living God? If so, it can accomplish great things, not because of the size of your faith, but because of the power and ability of your God. He will do mighty things through the person who trusts in Him, even if their faith is seemingly small and weak. Then the glory goes to God.
Two weeks ago, Bob and Arlene Powers and I were seated on a 747 waiting to take off from Minneapolis to Amsterdam when the pilot came on the intercom and informed us that our take off would be delayed because of an electrical problem. He assured us that they would not take off until everything was in proper working condition. So we sat there and watched as a team of mechanics searched the cabin for the source of the problem.
Well, this was too much for one young woman on board. With obvious anxiety, she told the stewardess near me that she could not fly on this plane, and she asked to be escorted off. The stewardess suggested that she talk to the pilot, and took her forward, along with her boyfriend or husband. But to my knowledge, they never came back to their seats. She simply lacked the faith to fly on that plane. But the mechanics found the problem, fixed it, and, an hour late, we took off and landed safely in Amsterdam.
I’ll be the first to grant that airplanes are made, maintained, and flown by fallible humans, and so there is the risk that they will crash. But, generally they have a safe track record and thus are worthy of our trust. If that anxious woman had just been able to have enough faith to stay on board, she would have safely reached her destination. She could have reviewed in her mind the safety record of the major airlines. She could have reminded herself of the fact that the pilot himself and the flight attendants were committing their own lives to the safety of that aircraft. Just a small amount of faith and she would have been able later to say, “My doubts were unfounded. That plane and that pilot were trustworthy.” But her lack of faith really was saying, “I don’t trust the competency of these mechanics or of the pilot.” It detracted from the “glory” or commendation that they deserved.
Even so, a lack of faith detracts from God’s glory, whereas just a small amount of faith—enough to get on board—exalts God as the faithful and powerful God that He is. How much more trustworthy is the living God than a fallible airplane and human pilot! Even when Jerusalem had been destroyed by the Babylonians and the temple was in ruins, Jeremiah could rightly say, “This I recall to my mind, therefore I have hope. The Lord’s lovingkindnesses indeed never cease, for His compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is Your faithfulness” (Lam. 3:21-23).
How does this apply to the matter at hand, that of trusting God when we’re faced with the difficult commands of Scripture? To use the example of verse 4, suppose that someone has wronged you and has asked for your forgiveness, but you are deeply hurt and you’re struggling with obeying God by granting forgiveness. Maybe the root of bitterness is as entrenched as the roots of this mulberry tree.
How much faith do you need to forgive the other person? Isn’t the answer, “As much faith as it takes to believe that God has forgiven you”? So you can pray, “Lord, I’m having difficulty obeying You by forgiving my brother. But I know that I have trusted in You to forgive my sins. I know that You did it, not because of me or my great faith, but because You are the faithful God who keeps His promises. I glorify You for Your great mercy towards me. I ask You now to be glorified through me by enabling me to forgive this person who has wronged me. Uproot this bitterness from my heart and plant it in the sea.” By getting your eyes off of you and your faith and onto God and His great mercy and faithfulness, you glorify Him. Even if your faith is as small as a mustard seed, God can uproot your bitterness and bury it forever, and He then gets the glory.
When Jesus uses the analogy of commanding a mulberry tree to be uprooted and planted in the sea, He is not suggesting that we should go around doing such things literally. Rather, He is using such a graphic illustration to say that even small faith can do what is humanly impossible because it is none other than Almighty God who works through our faith. Everyone who has truly believed in Christ for salvation has enough faith to obey the most difficult commands of Scripture, because the issue isn’t our great faith. The issue is our great God. Look to Him and He will be glorified as He works His mighty power through your weakness and small faith.
But Jesus goes on (17:7-10) to tell a parable that shifts the focus from faith to obedience and humility.
[h=3]2. When we encounter the difficult commands of Scripture, our focus should be on more obedience and humility.[/h]The Danish philosopher, Soren Kierkegaard, put his finger on the issue when he wrote, “It is hard to believe, not because it is hard to understand, but because it is hard to obey.” If we focus on increasing our faith, we will get inflated notions of our role. Even if we focus on obedience, we can easily get puffed up with how noble we are to be so obedient. So the Lord instructs us to view ourselves as God’s slaves who owe Him obedience in all things and who are unworthy of any of His blessings.
[h=4]A. WE SHOULD VIEW OURSELVES AS GOD’S SLAVES WHO OWE HIM OBEDIENCE IN ALL THINGS.[/h]Jesus is using humor here to make a point. In that culture, slaves had a very simple job description: Do everything your master commands. Period! Slaves did not give orders; they took orders. They did not negotiate with the owner what their privileges and perks would be. They didn’t join slave unions to get better working conditions or wages. They were not free to say, “I don’t like that order, so I’m not going to do it.” Slaves had to obey.
Thus when they came in after a hard day in the fields, they did not expect their owners to have dinner ready for them. They couldn’t tell the owner, “I’ve had a rough day. Get your own dinner!” They expected to come in and serve their master. And they didn’t expect him to be profuse in thanking them for all their trouble. It was their duty to serve him. Only after that could they eat their own dinner.
Duty is not the only picture. In Luke 12:37, Jesus showed us how He as the Master would graciously reverse roles and wait upon His faithful servants. The focus there was on His grace. But here He is emphasizing our responsibility to do what He commands us to do. Our focus cannot be on our feelings, but rather we must focus on our duty. I can’t picture the tired and dirty slave coming in off the field feeling like getting his master’s dinner. He felt like taking a bath and being served a nice dinner. But he had to focus on his duty as a slave.
We live in a day that encourages us to focus on our feelings. We’re even encouraged to rage against God when we feel angry because of how He has treated us! I realize that the psalmist sometimes poured out his complaint before the Lord, and I’m not suggesting that we deny or suppress our feelings. But there is a right and a wrong way to let the Sovereign of the universe know how we feel! We need to remember at all times our lowly position before Him. We are but dust and ashes in His presence. He owes us nothing; we owe Him everything. He does not owe us; He owns us as His slaves. As such, we owe Him obedience, even when His commands seem difficult.
There is no praise or glory in doing your duty. Duty is that which is expected of a person. I would venture to say that if you show up at work on time, your boss does not say, “Thank you so much for being here on time! It’s just wonderful how you do that day after day!” You’re expected to be at work on time. It’s your duty. You don’t crow about paying your bills, do you? You owe that money; you are expected to pay. The point is, we don’t earn brownie points with God for doing what He has commanded us to do. It’s expected for slaves to do what the master commands.
But, because of the human propensity toward pride, we’re all prone to get puffed up when we do our duty, especially if we start thinking how difficult it was. We think, “I’m so spiritual! I forgave my brother seven times yesterday!” Thus Jesus shows us that …
[h=4]B. WE SHOULD VIEW OURSELVES AS GOD’S SLAVES WHO ARE UNWORTHY OF ANY OF HIS BLESSINGS.[/h]Jesus concludes (17:10), “So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’” Spurgeon says that the Lord here is pouring cold water down our backs, but it is therapeutic. We need that dousing to remember our place before Him. Sometimes we get so puffed up about our years of sacrificial service or our forgiving spirit that we almost think that God owes us something. But we have no claim on God. All that we have, we have received by grace. We were lost and on the fast lane to hell when God’s mercy rescued us. He graciously gave us the privilege of serving Him. Are we then to congratulate ourselves when we obey His commands?
The Bible no where tells us that we need to grow in self-esteem, but many times it exhorts us to grow in humility. Even when we obey the most difficult commands in the Bible, we are to say of ourselves, “I am just an unworthy slave who only did that which I ought to have done.” If you struggle with pride (and who doesn’t?), I commend to you Andrew Murray’s little booklet, Humility (Christian Literature Crusade, available on our book table). You can read it in a couple of hours, but there is a lifetime of application there!
The Navigators are well known for their stress on having a servant attitude. A businessman once asked Lorne Sanny, the president of the Navigators, how he could know when he had a servant attitude. Sanny replied, “By how you act when your are treated like one.” When someone treats you like a servant, do you get offended and say, “I deserve better treatment than this?” Or, do you say, “I just got treated better than I should, because I’m not just a servant; I’m an unworthy servant”?
[h=3][/h]
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-78-more-faith-or-more-obedience-luke-175-10
And here is the Conclusion of the article
"ConclusionGod’s way of motivating us toward obedience and humility is to keep us focused on the cross of Jesus Christ. As Paul said, “the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me” (Gal. 2:20). “May it never be that I should boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world” (Gal. 6:14). Or, as Isaac Watts put it,
When I survey the wondrous cross
On which the Prince of glory died,
My richest gain I count but loss,
And pour contempt on all my pride.
If you’re struggling with some difficult command that you know God wants you to obey, look to the cross, where Jesus gave Himself for you. That is one reason our Lord ordained that we come often to His Table, to remember Him and His sacrificial death for us. In light of that, is any demand He makes of us too difficult? As we come to His Table, let’s exercise the simple faith that His faithfulness calls forth. And let’s focus on greater obedience and humility as His unworthy slaves."
"ConclusionGod’s way of motivating us toward obedience and humility is to keep us focused on the cross of Jesus Christ. As Paul said, “the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me” (Gal. 2:20). “May it never be that I should boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world” (Gal. 6:14). Or, as Isaac Watts put it,
When I survey the wondrous cross
On which the Prince of glory died,
My richest gain I count but loss,
And pour contempt on all my pride.
If you’re struggling with some difficult command that you know God wants you to obey, look to the cross, where Jesus gave Himself for you. That is one reason our Lord ordained that we come often to His Table, to remember Him and His sacrificial death for us. In light of that, is any demand He makes of us too difficult? As we come to His Table, let’s exercise the simple faith that His faithfulness calls forth. And let’s focus on greater obedience and humility as His unworthy slaves."
This sounds very peachy and spiritual but is it based on Scripture? Let's see what happened to those who had unquestionable faith in God (and one only needs faith equivalent to a mustard seed according to the Lord):
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. (Heb 11:24-26)
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy) -- they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. (Heb 11:35-38)
Seems like Rick Warren missed this portion of Scripture, along with several others.
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. (Heb 11:24-26)
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy) -- they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. (Heb 11:35-38)
Seems like Rick Warren missed this portion of Scripture, along with several others.
Ok here is my two cents. First off I like most people here have heard of Rick . I do have opinions about him but will try not to let them bias my thoughts about the pice .I am going to try to stay on subject ,and give my opinion concerning just the article. So here goes . It reads almost purposely vague. Not in a way to deceive. More like to catch or reach a wide audience with out ruffling too many feathers. To me that is not the way to go about preaching on a subject. Too much can be read into things . For me firm to the point is what matters. Slap me in the head give me a concussion with your message. I care less if you might offend me,than if I am left feeling or thinking “What did he mean by that?” I also thought he was talking down to his audience. Not in a way that was condescending. No it was somthing like a teacher talking to his or her 5th grade class . I can’t comment on the subject too much sense it could be taken in more than one way and That irritated me and my bias meter went off .
Well sis that is what I got out of that .
Blessings
Bill
Well sis that is what I got out of that .
Blessings
Bill
definitely not our cup of tea! we NEVER 'look' to any man for any kind of confirmation
about anything concerning our Holy Saviour, out-side of the Holy scriptures...but,
yes, we are and have always been students of those who are ahead of us in
their knowledge and life experiences, but never, ever, put them before where
The Holy Spirit has led us to go and to hear and to learn where we are led by Him...
about anything concerning our Holy Saviour, out-side of the Holy scriptures...but,
yes, we are and have always been students of those who are ahead of us in
their knowledge and life experiences, but never, ever, put them before where
The Holy Spirit has led us to go and to hear and to learn where we are led by Him...
?
Did you read the whole of the subject?
Luk 17:7 "Suppose a man among you has a servant plowing or watching sheep. Would he say to him when he comes in from the field, 'Come at once and have something to eat'?
Luke 17:8 Of course not. Instead, he would say to him, 'Get dinner ready for me, and put on your apron and wait on me until I eat and drink. Then you can eat and drink.'
Luke 17:9 He doesn't praise the servant for doing what was commanded, does he?
Luke 17:10 That's the way it is with you. When you have done everything you were ordered to do, say, 'We are worthless servants. We have done only what we ought to have done.'"
The unworthy servants sat in the cooking area. The Sons eat in the family dining room.
Did you read the whole of the subject?
Luk 17:7 "Suppose a man among you has a servant plowing or watching sheep. Would he say to him when he comes in from the field, 'Come at once and have something to eat'?
Luke 17:8 Of course not. Instead, he would say to him, 'Get dinner ready for me, and put on your apron and wait on me until I eat and drink. Then you can eat and drink.'
Luke 17:9 He doesn't praise the servant for doing what was commanded, does he?
Luke 17:10 That's the way it is with you. When you have done everything you were ordered to do, say, 'We are worthless servants. We have done only what we ought to have done.'"
The unworthy servants sat in the cooking area. The Sons eat in the family dining room.