2 John 1:11 Greeting Evil Teachers!

[reneweddaybyday]

Should we shun or reject people? Of course not! BUT what about false teachers? Granted, they're people too, but they do great harm to God's people.

I have never personally met a false teacher.

I have met people who have listened to false teachers.

So what does God tell us to do?

Speak His Word. And we do not have to make the person to whom we are speaking believe God's Word. God is the One Who works within the heart of the person to bring increase.

That is why it is so important for us to speak God's Word as opposed to what someone has told us, or what we add to His Word ourselves (which is man's word).

We are supposed to check out for ourselves whether what someone says is God's Word is, in fact, God's Word. Verify it for ourselves.

And we should also understand that none of us comprehends 100% of all Scripture. We are all learning. I believe it warms God's Heart when His children speak His Word to each other.

And if someone says "solid food" instead of "strong meat", does that mean God is not going to work in the heart of the person to whom we speak? I don't think so.

If that person allows the Word of God to reach his or her heart, God will bring increase.

And as we continue on in our lives, reading His Word, studying diligently, speaking His Word to each other, we're going to grow (spiritually). He promises to work within us and He will keep His promise.


Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I’m sorry that I used the word “shun.” It was a hyperbole, exaggeration for the sake of effect. I had already discussed in detail what I thought this was about. Certainly, we do sometimes have to leave it to God to rebuke and teach. All we can do is love them, and “speak the truth in love.” For sure!

In fact, that is why I rarely put people on ignore, although sometimes I check and see if someone is totally off base, so that even a babe in Christ could see it, and just leave them alone. But, those who SEEM to be presenting good doctrine, but in fact, are using bad eisegesis to spew their false doctrine, I do respond to. Especially when I see people responding and saying “Oh, I never knew that!” When in fact, it was a total fabrication.

And then, there are the false teachers that get page long copy and pastes. Those who are calling themselves teachers and don’t know the basics of Bible interpretation, who make up false doctrines, “to deceive even the very elect,” those I do go after.
And probably not in love, which is why I sometimes take breaks, to adjust my attitude. Sadly, when the same lies from the same copy and paste teachers when I come back, the love meter goes back down.

Which is my bad! And I would like to comment on your last comment. Rob Plummer is not an atypical of a seminary professor. All the ones I learned under have such an understanding of God’s love (and justice) such an amazing understanding of the Bible, and a sincere love of people, they are incredible models of how we are to walk as Christians. I learned more about how we are to live as Christians in seminary, than I did about anything else. (And I learned a lot of “facts!”).

When people come on here and trash seminary and professors, in conservative seminaries, I just wish they could talk to these professors for an hour. They would truly learn the way God wants us to go. To walk with God, and to love him and our neighbor as ourselves. That was all my seminary profs. I took classes in 2 other seminaries for transfer credit too, and they were the same. The love of God just flowed through them. I guess you don’t get to that level in a conservative seminary in Canada, without having more than just credentials on a piece of paper. The seminary where I got my degree, every professor was American, but had been missionaries for at least 10 years, many for more. And besides teaching seminary, they would to help the local congregations. My theology prof had been in China for many years. He said the men would not participate in preaching, only the women, that was their culture. He learned that his southern US Southern Baptist perspective, might not work in other cultures, and the churches he helped plant, grew. Then there were Hungarian church plants, Cantonese, Hispanic (Portuguese and Spanish) and so forth. That city was a mission field for my seminary, and none of those people took a dime for helping out these young churches.

I wish I could live up to their standards. But, I am not discouraged, as if you knew me before I was saved, before I went to seminary, you would see an incredible difference. Not there yet, but, one day, I will see Christ face to face, and then there will be no more struggles or crying. So looking forward to the coming of Christ! Praise God!

I am so thankful for people who love God and who take the time to study Scripture and then share what God has revealed to them. And I have met some very knowledgable men and women and have seen the love they have for God, for His Word, and for people. Very beautiful to see that love come through.


And, yes, in agreement that we have to be careful what we allow into our hearts. It is imperative that we go to Scripture when we listen to what others have to say about God's Word. Don't just take at face value when someone says "Thus says the Lord ...". Check it out for yourself. I have been led down some rabbit holes in my life because I didn't check what I learned with what Scripture really had to say on the subject.


It really is sad that we have false teachers, those who lead others astray for whatever reason (usually money). God doesn’t leave us out in the dark, though. He warns us and it is best we pay heed to His warning ... sure would save us a lot of heart ache.

 

[Depleted]

I have never personally met a false teacher.

I have met people who have listened to false teachers.

So what does God tell us to do?

Speak His Word. And we do not have to make the person to whom we are speaking believe God's Word. God is the One Who works within the heart of the person to bring increase.

That is why it is so important for us to speak God's Word as opposed to what someone has told us, or what we add to His Word ourselves (which is man's word).

We are supposed to check out for ourselves whether what someone says is God's Word is, in fact, God's Word. Verify it for ourselves.

And we should also understand that none of us comprehends 100% of all Scripture. We are all learning. I believe it warms God's Heart when His children speak His Word to each other.

And if someone says "solid food" instead of "strong meat", does that mean God is not going to work in the heart of the person to whom we speak? I don't think so.

If that person allows the Word of God to reach his or her heart, God will bring increase.

And as we continue on in our lives, reading His Word, studying diligently, speaking His Word to each other, we're going to grow (spiritually). He promises to work within us and He will keep His promise.


Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart

You've met plenty of false teachers. You come to the BDF too. I'd name names, but...

And yet, yup. You do what I try to do. Your'e just better at it.

 

[miknik5]

I am all for people reading the Bible for themselves. However, I think that equating bible teachers with those who consult the dead on behalf of the living is out of line. God Himself appoints teachers - it says so in Ephesians 4. Further, not all of us read Greek and/or Hebrew. What is the difference, fundamentally, between reading a translation (men telling other men what God "really" said) and Bible teachers (men telling other men what the God "really" said)?

And who did that?
if so called bible teachers are not teaching what is in line to THE SPIRIT, they aren’t teaching according to GOD
everyone is responsible to come to know HIM
for themselves

Thr bible also says in James that they should ask HIM
Just as Usaiah 8 states as well

its when people don’t know THE LORD and haven’t read THE WORD that they are more willing to listen to men telling them what GOD really said

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You've met plenty of false teachers. You come to the BDF too. I'd name names, but...

And yet, yup. You do what I try to do. Your'e just better at it.

oh, I don't know, Lynn. I'm not any better than anyone else. I'm so thankful to God that He saw fit to place me as a member in particular in the body of Christ.

 

[Dino246]

Why?

why is it okay to read the words of men telling men what GOD really said?

Didnt HE tell us to come to HIM?

isaiah 8 tells us we should

... However, I think that equating bible teachers with those who consult the dead on behalf of the living is out of line.

And who did that?

Who did that? You made the reference to Isaiah 8. Let's see what verse 19 says:

When they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter," should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?"

That is the only verse in the chapter that contains the phrase, "consult their God". So, perhaps you're not tracking the conversation closely enough? Or were you simply ignorant of the rest of the verse, was it merely a very poor choice of available supporting verses, or are you just feigning innocence to dodge that unpleasant feeling of conviction?

 

[Depleted]

oh, I don't know, Lynn. I'm not any better than anyone else. I'm so thankful to God that He saw fit to place me as a member in particular in the body of Christ.

Not better-better. You're better at being open enough to hear others without getting all scoldy like I do. I suspect I'm better at making stained-glass than you though, (based on most folks don't do stained-glass lol), which isn't better-better. Just better in one area.

 

[miknik5]

Who did that? You made the reference to Isaiah 8. Let's see what verse 19 says:

When they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter," should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?"

That is the only verse in the chapter that contains the phrase, "consult their God". So, perhaps you're not tracking the conversation closely enough? Or were you simply ignorant of the rest of the verse, was it merely a very poor choice of available supporting verses, or are you just feigning innocence to dodge that unpleasant feeling of conviction?

Oh I am tracking the conversation.

You sir suggested in your post following after I mentioned Isaiah 8 that somehow I was accusing bible teachers which is why I said who did THAT

I know perfectly welll that I supplied Isaiah 8 but I did t accuse anyone other to say we don’t need to go to the commentaries of men if we are doh g what we are supposed to be foung

readibg and praying and asking THE LORD to teach us by HIS SPIRIT

Juat as james and Isaiah say

 

[miknik5]

I am all for people reading the Bible for themselves. However, I think that equating bible teachers with those who consult the dead on behalf of the living is out of line. God Himself appoints teachers - it says so in Ephesians 4. Further, not all of us read Greek and/or Hebrew. What is the difference, fundamentally, between reading a translation (men telling other men what God "really" said) and Bible teachers (men telling other men what the God "really" said)?

This is your post

I took what you bolded above as some sort of implication that I was somehow doing this since you clearly quoted from Isaiah 8

there are many who claim to be bible teachers however if one does not know THE TRUTH of THE WORD and hasn’t read THE WORD for himself and asked through prayer that GOD lead and tech HIM
by CHRIST’s SOIRIT he will be willing to go to any and every “teacher” because that baby won’t be able to discern who is a false bible teacher from one who is teaching truth

 

[miknik5]

I wish I could do stained glass mosaics
I would R. E. A. L. L. Y. love to do that

 

[Dino246]

Oh I am tracking the conversation.

You sir suggested in your post following after I mentioned Isaiah 8 that somehow I was accusing bible teachers which is why I said who did THAT

I know perfectly welll that I supplied Isaiah 8 but I did t accuse anyone other to say we don’t need to go to the commentaries of men if we are doh g what we are supposed to be foung

readibg and praying and asking THE LORD to teach us by HIS SPIRIT

Juat as james and Isaiah say

I agree completely that we should ask the Lord to teach us by His Spirit. However, He appointed and equipped teachers (among others) to build up the Church. The suggestion that we don't need teachers is therefore rather hollow. You did not respond to the question I posted earlier: what is the fundamental difference between reading a book explaining Scripture and reading a translation of Scripture? Both involve interpretation.

I'll grant that you did not directly make the comparison between teachers and those who consult the dead (etc.). However, even if it was truly inadvertent, it was a poor choice. Divorcing a few words from their immediate context is generally a bad idea, and when that context strongly implies far more than you intend, it's best to clarify your intent or choose a different reference without the baggage. In any case, God was not rebuking Israel for seeking legitimate instruction, but rather for the seeking of revelation through spiritism.

 

[Sagart]

"ὁ λέγων γὰρ αὐτῷ χαίρειν κοινωνεῖ τοῖς ἔργοις αὐτοῦ τοῖς πονηροῖς." 2 John 1:11 SBL Greek

I get a daily email from a professor of Greek in the USAm called "Daily Dose of Greek." He goes through one verse of the NT a day. He talks about the grammar, any idioms, reminds of us of our verb paradigms and then deals with the verse. Of course, most of you don't read Greek, so here is this verse in English, in context!

This part of the post is irrelevant to what follows!

"Everyone who goes on ahead and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God. The one who remains in this teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not give him any greeting, 11 because the person who gives him a greeting shares in his evil deeds." 1 John 1:9-11

So, what is John saying here? He is warning us not to greet false teachers. He says that even "greeting" these teachers means you are sharing in their deeds! Ouch!

This is an excellent example of false teaching! John is NOT writing to Christians at large—he is writing to a specific but unidentified local body of believers. Furthermore, he is NOT writing about false teachers at large—he is writing about “those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. (v. 7, NRSV)

The context,

2 John 1:7. Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist!
8. Be on your guard, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, but may receive a full reward.
9. Everyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God; whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10. Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching;
11. for to welcome is to participate in the evil deeds of such a person. (NRSV)

So, what does that mean for forums like CC, where people not only post false doctrine, but they post the constant lies of certain deceivers, and with joy!

It means absolutely nothing for forums like CC—unless someone is denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

 

[miknik5]

I agree completely that we should ask the Lord to teach us by His Spirit. However, He appointed and equipped teachers (among others) to build up the Church. The suggestion that we don't need teachers is therefore rather hollow. You did not respond to the question I posted earlier: what is the fundamental difference between reading a book explaining Scripture and reading a translation of Scripture? Both involve interpretation.

the fundamental difference is if one is first standing by faith on the FOUNDATION.

I'll grant that you did not directly make the comparison between teachers and those who consult the dead (etc.). However, even if it was truly inadvertent, it was a poor choice. Divorcing a few words from their immediate context is generally a bad idea, and when that context strongly implies far more than you intend, it's best to clarify your intent or choose a different reference without the baggage. In any case, God was not rebuking Israel for seeking legitimate instruction, but rather for the seeking of revelation through spiritism.

You’re right. I didn’t clarify my full intent for providing Isaiah 8
its because too many look to men when they should first sit at HIS feet and learn from HIM

 

[miknik5]

And in the end. Any man not grounded by faith in the truth of GOD’s goodness grace and salvation to those who are in CHRIST JESUS will go out to listen to any and every “prophet/teacher” who will offer words to soothe their itchy temporal ears


just like ahab
and just like Ahaz

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Not better-better. You're better at being open enough to hear others without getting all scoldy like I do. I suspect I'm better at making stained-glass than you though, (based on most folks don't do stained-glass lol), which isn't better-better. Just better in one area.

Yeah, we all have our strengths and we're all diverse. Many members ... one body.

And you're right, you are better at stained-glass than I am. However, you're not only better at it, you're much, much better at it. I have never made anything out of stained glass.

 

[Angela53510]

This part of the post is irrelevant to what follows!



This is an excellent example of false teaching! John is NOT writing to Christians at large—he is writing to a specific but unidentified local body of believers. Furthermore, he is NOT writing about false teachers at large—he is writing about “those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. (v. 7, NRSV)

The context,

2 John 1:7. Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist!
8. Be on your guard, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, but may receive a full reward.
9. Everyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God; whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10. Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching;
11. for to welcome is to participate in the evil deeds of such a person. (NRSV)



It means absolutely nothing for forums like CC—unless someone is denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

Nice splicing and dicing the OP to say what it doesn’t!

And I am not talking about just me! There are many here who reprove these false teachings. But there are also some who let this bad teaching "into their house." They support these people, contrary to Scripture! I am not speaking of soteriological or eschatological arguments that are within the bounds of orthodox Christianity. I am speaking of false doctrines which literally lead you away from God.

So, really, I was speaking about false doctrines which literally lead you away from God. In other words, deny Jesus.

And yes, definitely to a specific congregation referred to as the Lady I believe. Rob Plummer went through the whole book, verse by verse, I just finished that verse, before coming here. I have now finished the videos on 2 John, but I did take the time to read it in context, as I always do. I just wasn’t clear about my direction, which should have been stated in the beginning.

But we can certainly apply to this forum, our churches, too. Especially because literally every NT writer brings up the topic of false teachers, there are enough quotes that we can certainly apply this.

I am sorry I wasn’t more clear in my OP. I also did not just mean the passage, but all the garbage that is being posted in this forum right now. From purgatory to WoF. Just false teachings, leading even the very elect astray.


“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”Matt 24:24

But, it would make an interesting study all the times, false teachers/prophets, and so forth was mentioned, and what the circumstances were!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God makes very clear that there are going to be false prophets, false teachers, false doctrines.


God has warned His people throughout all of history. He has always warned His people to be aware and not follow those who would lead His people astray. The link Angela shared in Post #4 is helpful to us in understanding the gist of 2 John 1:11.


We, as members in particular of the body of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, must understand that our warfare is spiritual in nature.


God’s enemy is the devil, and he uses whoever he can to thwart God’s people. We deal with every wind of doctrine thrown out by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in weight to deceive (Eph 4:14). The sleight of men, and cunning craftiness we face are those thoughts and ideas introduced by those who follow doctrines of devils.


In Eph 5:14 we are told awake thou that steepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.


The members of the body of Christ have got to wake up! In Rom 13:11-12 we are warned knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.


We have an adversary who wants nothing but to steal, kill and destroy that which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died on the cross to make available to us — — that abundant life found only in Him.


God gives us the opportunity to grow up in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, stand firm and steadfast against the wiles of the devil, speak God’s Word boldly and in love, reach out to those who are held in bondage by the lies of the adversary. God will give us the strength we need to fulfill that with which He has charged us. And God will bring increase in the hearts of those to whom we speak His Word. We, as faithful ambassadors, bring the truth of God’s Word to the ears of people who have been taken captive in order that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil. God will see to it that His Word does not return void.


Proverbs 13:17 A wicked messenger falleth into mischief: but a faithful ambassador is health.

 

[Sagart]

Nice splicing and dicing the OP to say what it doesn’t!

I did NOT do that!

So, really, I was speaking about false doctrines which literally lead you away from God. In other words, deny Jesus.

You were speaking about one thing, while John is speaking of something very different and very specific, “those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. (v. 7, NRSV).

 

[louis]

Be like the Bereans who read the scriptures daily, so that you too will know what is true and what is false.

Acts 17:11 [FONT=&quot]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.[/FONT]

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I did NOT do that!

You were speaking about one thing, while John is speaking of something very different and very specific, “those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. (v. 7, NRSV).

2 John 1:

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:


Does the doctrine of Christ mentioned in 2 John 1:9 and this doctrine mentioned in 2 John 1:10 relate only to confession that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh mentioned in 2 John 1:7?


Or, does the doctrine of Christ mentioned in 2 John 1:9 and this doctrine mentioned in 2 John 1:10 relate to the teachings and Words of Christ, in addition to confession that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh mentioned in 2 John 1:7?