Gods elects
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You had said the fall was the result of Adam receiving the knowledge of good and evil.
What you should said is the fall was the result of Adam's disobedience.
Eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil resulted in (a) guilt (hiding themselves from God), (b) shame (consciousness of their nakedness and attempts to cover it), and (c) shifting blame on others for their personal transgressions.
Disobedience resulted in (a) a curse upon creation, (b) the corruption of all humanity with the virus of sin, (c) the consequences of sin upon Adam, Eve and all humanity (the first and second deaths), (d) the requirement for humans to survive by hard labor, (e) pain and sorrow for women at childbirth, (d) subjection of women to men.
What you should said is the fall was the result of Adam's disobedience.
Eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil resulted in (a) guilt (hiding themselves from God), (b) shame (consciousness of their nakedness and attempts to cover it), and (c) shifting blame on others for their personal transgressions.
Disobedience resulted in (a) a curse upon creation, (b) the corruption of all humanity with the virus of sin, (c) the consequences of sin upon Adam, Eve and all humanity (the first and second deaths), (d) the requirement for humans to survive by hard labor, (e) pain and sorrow for women at childbirth, (d) subjection of women to men.
Actually, I asked if it would be more correct to say it that way. The fall was the result of Adam eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It was forbidden; his eating of it was disobedience and sin, AND gave him knowledge of good and evil, AND caused the fall of all creation. If eating of the tree, which gave him knowledge, CAUSED the fall of all creation, it seems backwards to say Adam received such knowledge AFTER the fall. That is all 
Actually, I asked if it would be more correct to say it that way. The fall was the result of Adam eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It was forbidden; his eating of it was disobedience and sin, AND gave him knowledge of good and evil, AND caused the fall of all creation. If eating of the tree, which gave him knowledge, CAUSED the fall of all creation, it seems backwards to say Adam received such knowledge AFTER the fall. That is all
the fall was the result of Adam receiving the knowledge of good and evil
as opposed toAdam received the knowledge of good and evil as the result of the fall
... that latter being what the other poster had said.
... that latter being what the other poster had said.
i'm sure this was an interesting thread, but i wonder if the source of this video was addressed?
Shepherd's Chapel? just no. Murray teaches many unorthodox things, such as denial of the Trinity, denial of physical resurrection of believers, preexistence, America, Britain and Canada are the lost tribes of Israel...
and serpent seed doctrine (Eve had relations with satan producing Cain). it's not good, and i adjure you to please consider how these teachings are refuted by actual Scripture, celib. do be careful.
Shepherd's Chapel? just no. Murray teaches many unorthodox things, such as denial of the Trinity, denial of physical resurrection of believers, preexistence, America, Britain and Canada are the lost tribes of Israel...
and serpent seed doctrine (Eve had relations with satan producing Cain). it's not good, and i adjure you to please consider how these teachings are refuted by actual Scripture, celib. do be careful.
E
We are in his group as part of the gospel sis. I have always maintained they are myt brothers and sisters.
But since at least I am not in his group concerning fatalism, I am considered to be an outsider. And that is why his post was directed at me. The words he used was directed at me, He thinks I think I had something to do with my salvation. And if you believe you were saved by your free wil choice of faith, he thinks the same thing about you.
But you did point out what I have been saying all along. It is a foolish argument, why would brothers attack brothers like they do. Only because we disagree on a passage of scripture?
But since at least I am not in his group concerning fatalism, I am considered to be an outsider. And that is why his post was directed at me. The words he used was directed at me, He thinks I think I had something to do with my salvation. And if you believe you were saved by your free wil choice of faith, he thinks the same thing about you.
But you did point out what I have been saying all along. It is a foolish argument, why would brothers attack brothers like they do. Only because we disagree on a passage of scripture?
E
Hi Magenta
I was only responding to this post that preacher made. It's the one that EG answered.
Ive never studied doctrines and I have no desire to do so. Just the scriptures with word studies being my method. The first sentence is something you disagree with?
We cannot repent until we are drawn to the Father. The drawing would be the hearing of the gospel would it not? And it's a specific time of an event that our ears are opened, true?
I see very little of our doing other than responding yes. Then chains break.
Thats is what I see in preachers post and am in agreement. The other points of the calvinists that you wrote are not mentioned in his post.
I wasn't aware that EG had a disagreement with Preacher and the post took me by surprise.
Re: Gods elects
Originally Posted by preacher4truth
Here's the whole thing in a nutshell and why people get so emotional over this:
- One group is dead set on proving God chose or saved them because of something they did, like responding, or whatever, in total defiance and loathing of Biblical unconditional election. This is all contrary to 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 teaching and other Scriptures. Most believe they had inherent faith and voted themselves into heaven. This is contrary to 2 Peter 1:1, Ephesians 1:19.
- The other group is dead set to prove from Scripture that God did all the saving, from choosing whom he willed to save to glorification and everything else in between, based on his purpose and will, and based in absolutely nothing in man. It is Soli Deo Gloria. This truth is witnessed throughout Scripture and is not erased by John 3:16 and a slough of "whosoever" verses no matter how hard the others try to pit Scripture against Scripture.
The fight is summed up in this: One group believes they had something to do with their salvation and reason as to why God saved them, the other group gives all the glory to God. Battling for the former over the latter is absurd to put it lightly, it is Romans 9:20. But that is what they are doing, it's a belligerency to prove they had something to do with why God chose them, or more plainly, why they are saved.
See here is the first lie
He claims a group of people who believes in salvation by GRACE alone through FAITH ALONE via free will believes they had something to do with their salvation, and we are the reason God said us.
That is not true. But he can not own up to this FACT. Thus when someone tries to tell him this, or explain it to him, He gets upset.
He does not even understand the argument, how can he claim to know what the argument is if he does not even understand it.
It is HIS VIEW, he only wants to argue HIS VIEW.
I was only responding to this post that preacher made. It's the one that EG answered.
Ive never studied doctrines and I have no desire to do so. Just the scriptures with word studies being my method. The first sentence is something you disagree with?
We cannot repent until we are drawn to the Father. The drawing would be the hearing of the gospel would it not? And it's a specific time of an event that our ears are opened, true?
I see very little of our doing other than responding yes. Then chains break.
Thats is what I see in preachers post and am in agreement. The other points of the calvinists that you wrote are not mentioned in his post.
I wasn't aware that EG had a disagreement with Preacher and the post took me by surprise.
Here's the whole thing in a nutshell and why people get so emotional over this:
- One group is dead set on proving God chose or saved them because of something they did, like responding, or whatever, in total defiance and loathing of Biblical unconditional election. This is all contrary to 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 teaching and other Scriptures. Most believe they had inherent faith and voted themselves into heaven. This is contrary to 2 Peter 1:1, Ephesians 1:19.
- The other group is dead set to prove from Scripture that God did all the saving, from choosing whom he willed to save to glorification and everything else in between, based on his purpose and will, and based in absolutely nothing in man. It is Soli Deo Gloria. This truth is witnessed throughout Scripture and is not erased by John 3:16 and a slough of "whosoever" verses no matter how hard the others try to pit Scripture against Scripture.
The fight is summed up in this: One group believes they had something to do with their salvation and reason as to why God saved them, the other group gives all the glory to God. Battling for the former over the latter is absurd to put it lightly, it is Romans 9:20. But that is what they are doing, it's a belligerency to prove they had something to do with why God chose them, or more plainly, why they are saved.
See here is the first lie
He claims a group of people who believes in salvation by GRACE alone through FAITH ALONE via free will believes they had something to do with their salvation, and we are the reason God said us.
That is not true. But he can not own up to this FACT. Thus when someone tries to tell him this, or explain it to him, He gets upset.
He does not even understand the argument, how can he claim to know what the argument is if he does not even understand it.
It is HIS VIEW, he only wants to argue HIS VIEW.
Not everyone who is drawn is saved, Judas was drawn, even closed by Christ, yet he was called the devil. Many people are drawn, and even come into our churches, yet never make the decision to trust christ and end up walking away because they never had faith.
Many are called. Few are chosen I think the word says.
The point is, what causes us to be chosen?
Those chosen are they whom the Lord foresaw before the world was, who will have believed in the cornerstone Christ and His Way of love, mercy, truth, justice, and humility.
Romans 8:29 [FONT="]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among [/FONT][FONT="]many brethren[/FONT]
Romans 8:29 [FONT="]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among [/FONT][FONT="]many brethren[/FONT]
No outsider to me EG...
How I see this about free choice is that we had something to pierce the darkness of our being to make a choice. Freed choice? The power of the gospel? Am sure we all heard first. Would this not be common ground?
Fatalism? I will fight being burned at the stake if able. I like scrappy. Lol
How I see this about free choice is that we had something to pierce the darkness of our being to make a choice. Freed choice? The power of the gospel? Am sure we all heard first. Would this not be common ground?
Fatalism? I will fight being burned at the stake if able. I like scrappy. Lol
E
No outsider to me EG...
How I see this about free choice is that we had something to pierce the darkness of our being to make a choice. Freed choice? The power of the gospel? Am sure we all heard first. Would this not be common ground?
Fatalism? I will fight being burned at the stake if able. I like scrappy. Lol
How I see this about free choice is that we had something to pierce the darkness of our being to make a choice. Freed choice? The power of the gospel? Am sure we all heard first. Would this not be common ground?
Fatalism? I will fight being burned at the stake if able. I like scrappy. Lol
I am not even here to fight fatalism, I just want to give a counter view so people can chose..I swore I would not get involved anymore and I failed when soverigngrace had to do what he did.. They want to play those game, I have no issue exposing them
The shepherds chapel DOES NOT teach denial of the trinity, that is a lie, they teach Scripture verse upon verse line upon line, every thing they teach is from the Scripture, since you don't know Scripture you don't agree, you would rather hear mans word, they didn't like Christ teaching because it did not agree with there doctrine. God bless