Natural senses OR Faith?

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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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#1
Found this tonight while reading a share on FB . How many here have experienced this in their walk with Jesus?




The unsaved person cannot walk in the spirit. The natural world is the only world he knows. But when you have been born of the Spirit you have a choice. You can interpret any situation with your natural senses or with faith. Let me illustrate.


Suppose you go to the doctor and he shows you an x-ray of your brain, says you have a tumor, and tells you that you have a week to live. If the natural world is all you know, you’d better start wrapping up your affairs! Everything you have heard and seen is telling you that you’re going to die. You can choose how you’re going to die – bravely or fearfully – but that’s about the only choice you have.


The spirit-conscious person, on the other hand, has options and he will not accept the doctor’s report as the last word. He might say, “I need a second opinion. What does Dr. Jesus say?” Do you see what he’s doing? He’s switching his attention from the natural realm to the spiritual. He’s looked at the x-ray he’s now fixing his eyes on something unseen and eternal.


His spirit is one with the Holy Spirit and through that connection he is being reminded of some life-giving promises pertaining to healing (Is 53:4, Ps 103:3). Although in the natural he is battling anxiety, he strives to enter that rest which is found only in Jesus. He begins to think about Jesus who carried his infirmities. And as he sets his mind on things above he begins to sense supernatural peace and faith stirring within him.


When you walk according to the flesh, life always has the last word. The circumstances of your life will tell you when to be sick, poor, and anxious. Enemies of sickness and poverty will seek to rob you of your appetite, sleep, and joy. But when you walk according to the spirit you will find yourself talking back to your circumstances. You’ll argue with doctors. You’ll speak to your bank account.


You may even shout at sickness. If you think that’s weird, consider Jesus. He spoke to trees and storms and said we’d speak to mountains! The spirit-conscious believer talks back because he knows that life does not have the last word. He refuses to let his circumstances dictate his actions.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
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South
adelaiderevival.com
#2
D

Depleted

Guest
#3
What does the "spirit-conscious" man do when God's choice is to have him die in a week? Stop believing there is God? It seems the "natural" outcome, since the only thing the "spirit-conscious" man wants out of God is what God can do for him.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,715
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#4
What does the "spirit-conscious" man do when God's choice is to have him die in a week? Stop believing there is God? It seems the "natural" outcome, since the only thing the "spirit-conscious" man wants out of God is what God can do for him.
Paul wrote " To live Is CHRIST to die Is gain"
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
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#6
What does the "spirit-conscious" man do when God's choice is to have him die in a week? Stop believing there is God? It seems the "natural" outcome, since the only thing the "spirit-conscious" man wants out of God is what God can do for him.
I think a spirit filled and trusting man would say and think...I want your will to be done and if you are calling me home and this sickness ends in my death here, I am ready to go where You take me.

I think most of his anxiety would be prayer for those he was leaving behind on earth.

He might have some struggle with joy at maybe getting to finally be face to face with his Lord in a few days or months. He might feel guilty for feeling that joy when others had to remain here longer and himself not being able to help them here any more.

I guess I think his thoughts would be - I'm torn between wanting to go and be with my Lord and wanting to remain in case I could help you.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#7

Surprised I get Paul's writings on my FB? Always looking for a conspiracy 7seas.? Unlike you and a few others who post on these same forums ., I happen to like Paul Ellis very much. Despite the very angry people here with their very angry opinions about the preachers I listen to. I stand strong on my convictions about who have blessed my life in Christ.

I happen to appreciate P.Ellis very much despite what you or some other Christians here think. You guys can label me and the pastors and writers I share here. You guys can label us and give yourselves permission to discredit us (who are brothers and sisters in the Lord) but that will not change what the truth is nor will it change the thousands of other Christians who believe in things you don't.

As I told Angela., if only we all thought and believed and liked the same exact things in life...if only..... But we don't and we never will. God made each of us different in the body of Christ. Be thankful for the differences and stop calling unclean what the Lord has already made and called clean.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#8
I guess "according to your faith" has a lot to do with what one accepts. Fears are powerful. If not dealt with then sickness might do one in.

I'm one that has made the choice to walk this thing out. One doctor told me his opinion that nodes seen on my lungs were cancerous. I left that doctor. Twice now I've coughed up what looks like plastic. Almost took me out this last time. Lol. Just for a sec or so I couldn't take a breath. I've discussed this my doctor Jesus, why this way? :)

but....I can now breathe without rales.

We are overcomers, not overcome. If we die in the process of faith, great gain! But, is not my expectation.

by the way, the Ct scans were years ago. Am still here.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#9
I think a spirit filled and trusting man would say and think...I want your will to be done and if you are calling me home and this sickness ends in my death here, I am ready to go where You take me.

I think most of his anxiety would be prayer for those he was leaving behind on earth.

He might have some struggle with joy at maybe getting to finally be face to face with his Lord in a few days or months. He might feel guilty for feeling that joy when others had to remain here longer and himself not being able to help them here any more.

I guess I think his thoughts would be - I'm torn between wanting to go and be with my Lord and wanting to remain in case I could help you.
True, but the OP wasn't about a spirit-filled believer. It was about a spirit-conscious believer. And it wasn't about trust. It was about sensing "supernatural peace and faith stirring within him."

In short, it was about some guy, not about the Lord.

It's very subtle, but that's it in a nutshell. God is not center. Man is. These are always about what Man can get out of God.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#10
I guess "according to your faith" has a lot to do with what one accepts. Fears are powerful. If not dealt with then sickness might do one in.

I'm one that has made the choice to walk this thing out. One doctor told me his opinion that nodes seen on my lungs were cancerous. I left that doctor. Twice now I've coughed up what looks like plastic. Almost took me out this last time. Lol. Just for a sec or so I couldn't take a breath. I've discussed this my doctor Jesus, why this way? :)

but....I can now breathe without rales.

We are overcomers, not overcome. If we die in the process of faith, great gain! But, is not my expectation.
Wait. You're hacking out plastic? And your choice is to not believe a doctor who said it might be cancer. Instead you're counting on Jesus to deal with this?

When you drive, do you expect Jesus to steer the wheel too? I absolutely know God heals, but that doesn't mean I stick my head in the sand and hope it goes away. Hacking up plastic is not a good thing! Find out what's wrong. Go for second opinion if you want to. But don't neglect common sense in hopes Word of Faith is real!

Word of Faith isn't real! The Lord is!

(Seriously do not want you to die simply because you hang out with people who think shimmering flecks is shekinah glory. I love you too much.)
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#11
What does the "spirit-conscious" man do when God's choice is to have him die in a week? Stop believing there is God? It seems the "natural" outcome, since the only thing the "spirit-conscious" man wants out of God is what God can do for him.

I can tell you what I've learned and share my faith with you Depleted but I've tried many times before and you have made it abundantly clear you are not interested in that. These forums are supposed to be in reality for discussion and debate...not personal attacks and accusation.

I'm very glad to discuss with anyone here and give an answer for the hope that is in me., and am able to do it without accusation even when persons are not of the same opinion. I'm not threatened so it's not hard at all to do. It's the 'hope that is in me' But some cannot do that and even find it impossible. Some have even gone so far as to say we Christians who believe in healing, speaking in tongues., and such things as this thread is daring to discuss., should not even be greeted.

So as this thread continues and we start discussing these very things, I hope you will listen and instead of feeling threatened., just listen and if you disagree., say so and give your reasons. It's my hope to open the conversation on these very important things we all deal with in daily life as Christians.



 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#12

Surprised I get Paul's writings on my FB? Always looking for a conspiracy 7seas.? Unlike you and a few others who post on these same forums ., I happen to like Paul Ellis very much. Despite the very angry people here with their very angry opinions about the preachers I listen to. I stand strong on my convictions about who have blessed my life in Christ.

I happen to appreciate P.Ellis very much despite what you or some other Christians here think. You guys can label me and the pastors and writers I share here. You guys can label us and give yourselves permission to discredit us (who are brothers and sisters in the Lord) but that will not change what the truth is nor will it change the thousands of other Christians who believe in things you don't.

As I told Angela., if only we all thought and believed and liked the same exact things in life...if only..... But we don't and we never will. God made each of us different in the body of Christ. Be thankful for the differences and stop calling unclean what the Lord has already made and called clean.

hey you know, it's your cliff and your car

I was only pointing out that fb is not the actual source of the article

were you ashamed or something?

you can stand on your convictions and fall on them too

the Bible never tells us to stand on our convictions. it does say the truth was delivered once for all.

we stand on the truth of the word of God.

again, you can stand on your roof or anywhere else you are convicted of :p

I also don't don't care what you listen to. the way I see it, you made your choice(s)..but as has been pointed out, this is not about you and your personal convictions

why do you seem to think it is always all about you? you express your convictions and and get upset when others disagree

here's a news flash: if standing on convictions was all the Bible was about, then the truth would be totally subjective

instead, we are told there is only ONE truth ... your convictions are not going to help anyone but again, I have truly no more care for what you believe

I do however, care about people being led astray, which, if they follow your convictions, is what will happen
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#13
someone correct me, but isn't Paul Ellis one of the two gospels preachers?

as in Jesus taught one thing but Paul taught something else?

from a perusal of his site, it seems that he is, but if not, I am sure someone will speak up
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#14
Found this tonight while reading a share on FB . How many here have experienced this in their walk with Jesus?




The unsaved person cannot walk in the spirit. The natural world is the only world he knows. But when you have been born of the Spirit you have a choice. You can interpret any situation with your natural senses or with faith. Let me illustrate.


As a Christian I went through this same process of comparisons. OK Lord Jesus... the Bible says I'm born again I'm a new creation and have a new Spirit within me. How come all these years I've lived in fear and worry? Is it because I never dealt with who I am in Christ? Have I not really walked in the Spirit so I would not fulfill the lusts (worry fretting) of my flesh? Have I only lived according to my flesh even in the realm of faith? The answer for me was YES.





Suppose you go to the doctor and he shows you an x-ray of your brain, says you have a tumor, and tells you that you have a week to live. If the natural world is all you know, you’d better start wrapping up your affairs! Everything you have heard and seen is telling you that you’re going to die. You can choose how you’re going to die – bravely or fearfully – but that’s about the only choice you have.


Went to the hospital last winter after falling and breaking a wrist. I actually got in the car alone...drove to the hospital went through the process... without fear. If anyone here knew me they would know that was not me 5 yrs. ago. My family who I have not seen in 8yrs. would not believe it.

In the natural I would have not done any of that. But because the Holy Spirit had been teaching me to see Jesus and His love., what He did and why., His gift of grace and the promises never to leave me., always to help and guide me., and believing the truth that I'm not of this world, I'm simply in it right now., I was able to walk as one who just lives here but my citizenship is really in heaven. Because of Jesus., I have choices on how to see life here apart from the natural.


The spirit-conscious person, on the other hand, has options and he will not accept the doctor’s report as the last word. He might say, “I need a second opinion. What does Dr. Jesus say?” Do you see what he’s doing? He’s switching his attention from the natural realm to the spiritual. He’s looked at the x-ray he’s now fixing his eyes on something unseen and eternal.


This is true., the spirit conscious person (one who is aware of who they are in Christ having the Holy Spirit living inside) has OPTIONS. Yes., I've fallen and yes my wrist broke and needs surgery. YES I have no one to help me at home and YES I must endure it all without help physically. YES The snow is coming down and i need to drive home in the dark.,YES, the dog needs to go out and be fed... YES the job needs to be called..., YES I need to drive back for surgery in the morning YES in the snow storm. Yet I did it all in ease and in safety and calm because the Spirit showed me He is real. What Jesus did on the cross is REAL. His power is REAL. I never lived this truth out in my Christian life before. I never dared believe in what I could not see or feel. I never lived out Heb.11:1

Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].


Used to be I believed God helps those who help themselves. And thus... was always helping myself wondering where God's help was because I was not being helped by God for all those years before.


His spirit is one with the Holy Spirit and through that connection he is being reminded of some life-giving promises pertaining to healing (Is 53:4, Ps 103:3). Although in the natural he is battling anxiety, he strives to enter that rest which is found only in Jesus. He begins to think about Jesus who carried his infirmities. And as he sets his mind on things above he begins to sense supernatural peace and faith stirring within him.


Exactly. My spirit is now taught how to listen to the Holy Spirit and rest. And those rivers of living water flow in and through me causing calm and reassurance in Jesus love and provision for me despite the natural outward circumstances. Just as Jesus said He would. John 7:38
[SUP]38 [/SUP]He who believes in Me [who cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me] as the Scripture has said, From his innermost being shall flow [continuously] springs and rivers of living water.



I'm still learning how to walk these truths out daily and it is a daily step by step walk. We don't just down load truth. We have to hear it and hear it and hear it over and over and become familiar with the truths that we are loved unconditionally and Jesus has given us these gifts to have and to hold on to and live out our lives with. Even if we have faith as a mustard seed., we can watch those mountains disappear. We set our minds on things above not on things below. When you walk according to the flesh, life always has the last word. The circumstances of your life will tell you when to be sick, poor, and anxious. Enemies of sickness and poverty will seek to rob you of your appetite, sleep, and joy. But when you walk according to the spirit you will find yourself talking back to your circumstances. You’ll argue with doctors. You’ll speak to your bank account.


Exactly as it was for me when walking according to my flesh as a Christian. The circumstances of life lead me instead of my being lead of the Spirit. I was fearful., sick., confused and alone. But today I'm learning to walk by the Spirit and not allow the world the flesh and the devil steer my course. We have an Advocate in all areas of our lives He paid our way to be sons and daughters of God.





You may even shout at sickness. If you think that’s weird, consider Jesus. He spoke to trees and storms and said we’d speak to mountains! The spirit-conscious believer talks back because he knows that life does not have the last word. He refuses to let his circumstances dictate his actions.


This excerpt of the full article by P. Ellis in the 1st post really spelled out loudly what walking in the Holy Spirit does and I thought others here would also be encouraged being reminded as I was reading it last night . Being conscious of who we are IN Christ is totally needed. Being "conscious" of my human frailties above the ministry of Jesus in my life is NOT good.


Being "conscious" of the promise of what the Holy Spirit will do as the Bible says in John 7:38 IS NEEDED. To be hung up on the term "conscious" is something people need to get over. I don't use the word groovy anymore but what groovy means is still in vogue.
 
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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#15
Wait. You're hacking out plastic? And your choice is to not believe a doctor who said it might be cancer. Instead you're counting on Jesus to deal with this?

When you drive, do you expect Jesus to steer the wheel too? I absolutely know God heals, but that doesn't mean I stick my head in the sand and hope it goes away. Hacking up plastic is not a good thing! Find out what's wrong. Go for second opinion if you want to. But don't neglect common sense in hopes Word of Faith is real!

Word of Faith isn't real! The Lord is!

(Seriously do not want you to die simply because you hang out with people who think shimmering flecks is shekinah glory. I love you too much.)

Well, you certainly have a way Lynn....like plastic...and yes, am trusting. I've seen His hand move for me from the beginning so am not stopping to fear now. Am hoping to see this to the end. And the Ct scans say, an infectious process now.

A syrinx and herniated discs, the last of all this to go.

And thank you for the love..it's reciprocated. God bless!

What is shimmering flecks by the way? Glory is light!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#16
The Word is Spirit and life. I'm not one that says you can take all the Word and apply it. That would be without the unity between us and Him. So I ask Him for His specific Word to my situations. I keep it (guard it in my heart, by faith).

Parroting is not the same thing. But truth is speaking, and believing the Word by faith.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#17
I guess "according to your faith" has a lot to do with what one accepts. Fears are powerful. If not dealt with then sickness might do one in.

I'm one that has made the choice to walk this thing out. One doctor told me his opinion that nodes seen on my lungs were cancerous. I left that doctor. Twice now I've coughed up what looks like plastic. Almost took me out this last time. Lol. Just for a sec or so I couldn't take a breath. I've discussed this my doctor Jesus, why this way? :)

but....I can now breathe without rales.

We are overcomers, not overcome. If we die in the process of faith, great gain! But, is not my expectation.

by the way, the Ct scans were years ago. Am still here.


Praise the Lord sister! Your testimony is shared by many others who have been healed. I'm still learning about these mysteries. I'm learning faith is a gift we have been given. We each have been given a measure of faith and even if that measure is a tiny mustard seed it can move mountains in our lives. It's the person we have faith in., not ourselves or our goodness or our deserving it. It's the gift Jesus bought and paid for on our behalf. We are loved freely because of Jesus.

And His love motivates us to keep following even when we can't see with our physical senses. I'm so thankful you shared your testimony. God bless you sissy.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#18
Best to walk faith in His Word before sickness Joanie. You are wiser than I was.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,261
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
#19
@joaniemarie

Interesting article. Don't agree 100% with the approach, but there is
no offence in the article or in you sharing it.

Truth is in our Pentecostal Fellowship some people get the vision early
and grow and claim wonderful victories.
But some people just do not grasp the power and purpose of the indwelling
Holy Spirit and suffer needlessly; and mostly require other people to pray for them.
Some has amazing healings and miracles like Paddy; others put up with
ailments for years.

Some of our members have suffered severe injuries and consequences: like
Peter who fell through a verandah skylight and landed on the concrete below.
Broke his neck and is now paralysed.
Everybody prayed for Peter after a ring around for prayers.
And while Peter has recovered above and beyond his doctor's prognosis
and expectations he is still in a wheelchair.
What is important though is that Peter is rejoicing in his salvation and
still prays in tongues and comes to worship meetings.
No bitterness and resentment. No quitting.
It has always been about salvation not a blessed perfect life without
any tribulations here on Earth.

The Lord reminds us all that everyday is the day of salvation.
That every day is the day to submit and obey.
Every day is the day to be righteous and overcome sin.
It is always one day at a time.

And yes people in our Fellowship do die; mostly from old age,
now and then from cancer, etc.
But if they have kept the faith and upheld their testimony then we
rejoice that they are asleep in Christ Jesus - waiting for that trumpet call.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#20
In my local Fellowship assembly is an Irishman named 'Paddy'
who was dying from a terminal lung disease - bronchiolitis obliterans
no cure. fatal. Had three weeks to live.

Here is his testimony also supported by his doctor

http://miracles.areonthe.net/TESTIM...g, cured overnight through prayer (Paddy).pdf



Thank you Waggles., These are encouraging words from other Christians that we all need to hear. Life every day is a miracle and every day when I think of Jesus and what He has done it fills me with the JOY and hope of my salvation. He is able to do things we never would even consider to ask Him.

Each day I'm learning to dare to ask things that in times past I never dared ask. The more we learn about Jesus the more things we are able to hold on to about Him. He loves us unconditionally- and that instructs me to HOLD TIGHT and have a STRONG CONSOLATION in Christ. He is an ANCHOR for our souls and our minds. We never have to worry or fret in this life because of Him.

Because of Jesus., we believers have all the blessings and none of the curses. Jesus became a curse for us. How AMAZING is that! Jesus saved us and gifted us so many things in salvation. I've been learning about the word SOZO. Our salvation is full of things we are to be learning about. He has given us great and precious promises and sealed them for us. The Holy Spirit is the One who reveals to us Jesus.

Life for us is an exciting journey not only when we get to heaven in the sweet bye and bye but we need to walk by faith to see these promises in the sour here and now.

Thank you for sharing that post. You and Stonesofire have encouraged and edified me.