What Is Romans 9 About?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#1
Reading Ro 9 starting at v1 through v33 it says Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe. That is THE main idea Paul was getting across. It is in no way about God predestinating only certain individuals to eternal life.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,259
431
83
#4
Reading Ro 9 starting at v1 through v33 it says Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe. That is THE main idea Paul was getting across. It is in no way about God predestinating only certain individuals to eternal life.
Spot on DevotiontoBible,

Predestined = A PLAN with a PATH

Romans 8:29
For those ""God foreknew"" he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

This notion of your future is at birth already decided is FALSE. Does God already know what all will choose. YES HE DOES. He knows because He has already seen the future. However, every individual must choose for themselves.

God predestined a "PATH" with the "PLAN" of salvation before creation & time began.

The "PATH & PLAN" are predestined by one choosing to place thier faith in GOD'S PRE-PLANNED PATH.

Genesis 24:58 And they called Rebekah, and said unto her, Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go.
(NOTE: Rebekah had a choice))

John 3:16, Romans 10:13 & Acts 2:21 All proclaim:

WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
(The "PATH" & "PLAN" are predestined. The choice is made by the individual No one is born saved. And the Faith choice of salvation is NEVER forced)

It's not before birth that justification & salvation happen.

If people are predestined to be saved. What is the point of the Lords suffering on the cross?

If salvation comes thru your great works. What is the point of the Lords suffering on the cross?

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
(NOTE: If your trying to become justified thru law keeping. You've missed the Grace train)

Ephesians 2:
8 "By grace" are ye saved" ""through faith" "not of yourselves" it is the "gift" of God
(NOTE: Grace is a gift, accessed thru Faith in Christ)

9 "Not of works" "lest any man should boast"
(NOTE: Works don't work)

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
(NOTE: We access God's grace thru Faith)

The Predestined "Plan & Path" is Who ever will CHOOSE to: Place their Faith in the: Redemptive Sin Atoning Death (sins wage paid), Burial & Resurrection (God's receipt, payment received) of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Salvation is a faith choice: You're not born with it & you can't earn it. May we all choose wisely!
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#5
Filling the gap between chapters 8 and 10?

:cool:
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#6
First things first. (No. I'm really not going to argue over that one verse in Romans 9, but I do want this study to start on a firm base.)

First things that have to be understood are:
1. Why was the Book of Romans written.
2. Who was it to?
3. Why?
4. For what purpose?
5. What does it say in the first 8 chapters?

Get those answers, and then you're ready to jump into 9. (And, btw, 9 is going to be hard to jump into because it is part of an explanation of something said in 8. Which just happens to be an answer to a whole lot said from Romans 1:1 to half of 8, so be aware you're jumping a whole lot before getting there.)
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#7
By oldhermit
Part one

I. The Privileges of Being a Jew, 1-5

I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and
unceasing grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my
kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites...”


A. Paul's concern for Israel, 1-3.

This was a source of great consternation for Paul.


1. For the Jews, Paul felt “great sorrow and unceasing grief” to the extent that he says,

2. “I could wish that I myself were accursed.” Ἀνάθεμα – That which is devoted to destruction.

3. “I could wish that I myself were separated from Christ.” (imperfect tense, involving potential or condition).

Paul's desire for the Jew was out of a genuine love for the lost. This is the epitome of a self-sacrificing spirit. This reflects the
seriousness and the intensity of the matter. Remember, these are not regarded by Paul as his brothers in the Spirit, rather, he refers to them as “my kinsmen according to the flesh.” He is talking abut his desire for the unsaved Jewish people.

What does Paul's desire for the salvation of the Jews have to say about the position of unconditional election? Why would Paul have such sorrowful grief over Israel being lost if the doctrine of unconditional election were true? If God had predetermined for the Jews to be saved then Paul's concern over the Jew was for nothing. If God had predetermined for the Jew to be lost, then Paul's concern over the Jew was for nothing.

Paul did not grieve for them because they were chosen, elect, predestined, or saved. He grieved for them because they were lost and going to hell because they had rejected their Messiah and it was tearing him apart.


B. Paul begins his defense of the faithfulness and sovereignty of God by reminding the Jews of what a truly privileged people God had made them to be, 4-5,
...to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.”

Paul has already addressed the question in 3:1 of, “what advantage has the Jew?” In the mind of the Jew, if the Gentile is to be privy to the same blessings and salvation from God as the Jew, then what is the advantage in being a Jew? What is the point? The point the Jew seemed to always miss was that the advantage of the Jew was that it was through them that salvation would come to the world. The advantage was not in who they were but in WHAT they were to the purposes of God. This advantage gave them certain privileges.

1. “...to whom belongs the adoption as sons.”

Paul is speaking to a Jewish audience whom he declares to be privileged as having received the adoption of sonship, but this privilege of adoption is not exclusive to the Jew. Paul says the same things to the Gentiles in Ephesians 2. The difference between the Jew and the Gentile was that the Jews were the first-fruit among God's children. This is confirmed in the pattern of the preaching of the gospel – “To the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.”

2. To the Jew belonged “the glory”

3. To the Jew belonged “the covenants and the giving of the Law.” From among all the people of the earth, God has chosen Israel to be the recipient and bearer of the words of God.

4. To the Jew belonged “the temple service.” This was indeed a unique privilege because God had appointed to the Jew the altar as the place where he would meet with his people. There he would meet with them, there he would bless them, and there he would forgive their sins.
5. To the Jew belonged “the promises.” They were to be the instrument through which God would bring salvation to
all men.

6. It was the Jews “from whom is the Christ according to the flesh.”

Here is the intent in the mind of God for Israel. The truth however, is that privilege does not guarantee relationship and the history of the Jews is case in point. No other people on the face of the earth was more privileged than the nation of Israel yet, that privileged status did not ensure their faithfulness to God nor did it protect them from the wrath of God as their history repeatedly demonstrates. So, how did this promise begin?
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#8
Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11, deal with the Jewish question, and in every capacity. As well, the erroneous manner in which the Doctrine of Predestination is often presented will be refuted, as Paul explains Israel's present state of unbelief, and that despite being originally elected by God. And yet Paul will wondrously and grandly portray in Chapter 11 their coming Restoration.

JSM - Bible Commentary - Romans
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#9
Part two

II. It Began with God Making Certain Choices, 6-13

This demonstrates the sovereignty of God to choose those through whom he wishes to accomplish his will, not who will be saved or lost. God runs the universe. He controls human history. He determines the destinies of men and nations. Nothing just happens. Time and human history are structured to conform to the will of God. The only reason the Jews existed was to carry out the purposes of God.

A. Paul sets the record straight concerning what constitutes the children of the promise and it had absolutely nothing to do with
genetics.
Paul says in verse seven that as far as the promise is concerned, not all who are descended from Abraham are Abraham's descendants. This is what presented the problem for the Jews. They thought that all the physical descendants of Isaac were the children of promise and no one else was entitled. Paul then goes a step further to say that in the same way, not all who are descended from Isaac are considered of Isaac. In these two generations of the seed line, God narrows the field for just who are to be considered children of the promise.
1. Abraham had eight sons in all.


a. Hagar – Ishmael

b. Sarah – Isaac

c. Keturah – Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishan and Shuah
Of these eight sons, only Isaac is the descendant of Abraham according to the promise. The other seven were simply not part of the promise.

2. Isaac had only two sons – Jacob and Esau.
Here, God made another choice between these two sons concerning the promise and it was Jacob through whom God would build the nation of Israel. God said regarding these two sons, that “the older will serve the younger.”

Here is a question for those who hold the idea of unconditional election. Was this talking about individuals or nations. Unconditional election theorists insists that it is speaking of individuals. If this is true, then the words of the Lord failed in this point because the man Esau never served the man Jacob. So how then was this prophesy of the Lord fulfilled?

If you will also recall, Edom, the descendants of Esau, later became superior to Israel as a nation and refused Israel passage through their lands in Numbers 20. Edom would continue to be a thorn in the side of Judah after the conquest until the time of Nebuchadnezzar. David conquered Edom in II Samuel 8 and made them subjects of Israel but, for centuries after, Edom continued to rebel against Judah which fulfilled the prophesy of Isaac concerning Esau in Genesis 27:40. “You shall serve your brother but you shall become restless and you will break his yoke from your neck.”

This conflict with Judah would continue until both nations were destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. Later, after Judah returned from captivity, those of Edom who remained were absorbed into the Israelite nation hence, Edom is no more. This was prophesied by the Lord in Amos 9:11-12 where he says that Judah would possess the remnant of Edom.


So, God's choice of Jacob over Esau pertained not to an election of individuals to salvation as Calvinism insists,but to the role each nation would play in God's scheme to fulfill the promises to Abraham that through Isaac, “all the nations of the earth will be blessed." What Paul has been talking about up to this point is NOT the election of individuals but the election of nations.
3. From Jacob, it was through the line of Judah that the Messiah would come. Yet still, not all who would come from Jacob would be heirs of the promise. All of this is what the Jews really took exception to. This is what gave rise to the Jew's charge that God was unfaithful in his promise.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#10
Part three

III. Charges Made by the Jews against God, 6-33

A. The first objection of the Jews was that “God is unfaithful. If the gospel is true, then God has not kept his promise to Israel.”


1. The questions before us is, who is Israel, who are the ones to whom the promise was actually made, and whom does the promise concern? 6-9

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: 'Through Isaac your descendants will be named.' That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. For this is the word of promise: 'At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son.”

God had not failed in his promise as the Jews charged. The problem was two-fold and the problem is not the character of God. The Jews did not properly understand the promise, nor did they understand what a Jew was. The answer is that not all who descended from Israel are truly Israel. Not all who were members of physical Israel were a part of spiritual Israel.

Paul makes a very clear distinction between physical Israel and spiritual Israel which he refers to as the “children of the flesh” and the “children of the promise” respectively. The Jews failed to understand that God’s promises did not apply to all of physical Israel and never did. Paul has already reminded them of this fact in 2:28-29, “A person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.”

In 4:9-12, Paul tells the Jews that Abraham is not only the father of the circumcised but also of the uncircumcised who follow the same FAITH as Abraham, not the ones who merely possessed the same physical genetics and followed the written code.
Paul confirms this again in Galatians 3:7-9 and 29.
“Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, 'All the nations will be blessed in you.' So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.”

“And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, and heirs according to promise.” Belonging to Christis the ONLY requisite for being Abraham's descendant and an heir to the promise. THERE ARE NO OTHER RELEVANT FACTORS. Paul is making a distinction between believers (whoever they are) whom he says are the “children of God,” and the unbelieving Jews whom Paul says are the “children of the flesh.” The reality is that if you do not belong to Christ then you are NOT Abraham's descendant, you are not Isaac's descendant, you are not Jacob's descendant, and you are NOT heirs of the promise no matter what your linage is.

Paul is going to explain later in verse 27 that “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved.” (See Isaiah 10:21-22; 11:16; and 37:2). The promises were not made to physical Israel but to true Israel and only a remnant of physical Israel would believe on their Messiah. (And we will look more at the remnant when we get to that point in the chapter.)
2. What precisely was the promise? 6-9
For this is the word of promise: 'At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have
a son.”
The foreknowledge of Isaac in the mind of God does not mean that God had personally and unconditionally chosen Isaac for salvation. Paul is not discussing Isaac's personal salvation, he is merely pointing out to his Jewish readers that God had determined even before Isaac was born that Isaac would be the one through whom Messiah would come; that through his line all nations of the earth would be blessed

As far as the promise of God is concerned, descendancy is not a matter of genetics. As Paul says, “They are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants.” So, what does it mean that Esau's descendants were not children of promise even though they too were descended from Isaac? What it does NOT mean is that Esau's descendants were pre-selected or predetermined by God to be condemned. It means simply that this was not the linage God selected through which Messiah would come. The Jews did not understand the promise.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#11

Part four

B. The second charge from the Jews was that God is unjust in showing mercy, 10-15. Paul then uses the selection of Jacob over Esau to demonstrate the foolishness of this charge.


1. God's choice of Jacob over Esau,

And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.' What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.'”


The choice of God between these two sons had absolutely nothing to do with either Jacob or Esau. Paul asks, “For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?” He then confirms, “for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that (and here is the reason for the choice, that) God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls.” So,what was the purpose of his choice? It was not to save Isaac and condemn Esau. It was to establish a seed line for the blessing to all nations.


Neither the faith of Jacob nor the unbelief of Esau would in any way affect the choice of God between them, nor would it affect the functional destiny of either nation. This choice was determined by God according to his purposes and the choice was not about salvation; it was about purpose and function.

2. God's sovereignty demonstrated an extraordinary exorcise of mercy.
I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” To understand the point Paul is making with this quote, it is imperative that we understand the context out of which God uttered these words.

The context of this quote is rooted in the idolatrous rebellion of Israel in Exodus 32. Because of their idolatry, God said that he would not go up with the people to the land of promise lest he destroy them. Moses however, fulfills his role as mediator and pleads their case before the Lord. God promises that this matter is not closed. Punishment for this blasphemous behavior was not averted, it was only postponed but there were still immediate consequences. “Then the Lord sent a plague on the people, because they made the calf, the one that Aaron made.”


Later, God agrees with Moses to go before the people. He promises to do this thing for Moses based on the intimate relationship he had with Moses. “This thing I will do also.” “Also,” represents an additional clause to the agreement. In addition to going before Moses, he also agrees to go before the people. In all of this, Moses fulfilled his function as the mediatotial type. He had petitioned the Lord on behalf of the people and God accepted.


Moses then seeks confirmation from God as a sealing of the terms of the agreement – “Show me your glory.” This is not a simple matter of curiosity on the part of Moses. This was a means of confirming the restoration of God's covenant with Israel. God always confirms his covenant.

What Moses requested was a revelation of Jehovah himself that went beyond any encounter Moses had previously had with God. He wanted to see God without any protective barriers between himself and the unshielded presence of the Almighty. Moses did not simply wish to see another manifestation of God. He wanted to see God in his actual glory, not just a representational form of God. Moses is not requesting to see some anthropomorphic form or some form that accommodates the frailty of the human frame such as the burning bush or the pillar of cloud or of fire. Moses wants to see God himself, and God agrees with certain limitations.

On the mountain, while God was passing all his goodness before Moses, he speaks these words, “I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.”
Of all the qualities God posses both intrinsically and as extended properties, it is only his quality of goodness that God allows Moses to see but, even this could not be seen unshielded and even still, it was more than the human frame can comprehend.

These words spoken by the Lord were contextual to the preceding events. God had just shown great mercy to Israel rather than utterly destroying them as the threatened to do. God allows grace and mercy triumphs over justice.
Israel did not deserve such a display of mercy nor did they deserve such a pouring out of God's grace. This mean that God was unjust in extending such mercy to Israel. I am sure the Jews would understand this and not count such a display of mercy toward Israel as injustice, but for some reason, they considered God's rejection of unbelieving Israel and his mercy toward the Gentiles as unjust. “It is not unjust for God to show mercy to us but it is unjust for him to show mercy to the Gentiles.” They also felt it was unjust for God to reject the Jew who rejected the Christ.



 
Jan 18, 2018
22
0
0
#12
Oldhermit,

Where do these verses fit in-?

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
Romans 9 - 11 Is paul writing concerning the nation and people he belonged to IE Israel.

Romans 9 in particular is paul angering the question. Did God make a mistake (context being, did God make a mistake Chosing Isreal. Who rejected him)

He answers the question.

1. Did he chose it because the fathers were righteous. The answer is no, It was chosen before either child had done good or evil.
2. Was it chosen by the will of man? No, but by the will of God (God will show mercy to whome he wil show mercy, so even though all Israel’s sins, God has the right to show mercy. And the right to make it new after it destroys itself.
3. Was it chosen by all who are children of Abraham, No, only through Issac shall the seed be called
4. Was it chosen by birthright? No. It was chosen before the child was born. (2 nations are in your womb) the Older shall serve the younger, And God lord one more than the other (Jacob was the younger, God loved that nation more than he loved the nation of Edom, And edom served Jacob)


he then goes to show the OT said he would call Gentiles. That Isreal would disobey, And yet even in all that, when Isreal repented. Giod would remember his promise.

It is actually an easy passage,. The issue is out root belief,
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#15
Oldhermit,

Where do these verses fit in-?

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
Ezek 36 and 37 are dealing with the second re-gathering of the remnant of Judah and Israel. I am not sure why you are bringing it up here.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#16
Reading Ro 9 starting at v1 through v33 it says Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe. That is THE main idea Paul was getting across. It is in no way about God predestinating only certain individuals to eternal life.
Paul is using the image of two brothers and showing that they were predestined/predetermined/chosen/elect before they could do anything good or evil.

And taking this picture he is applying it on the situation between Israel and other nations. Other nations were also chosen to be full of Christians and Israel was chosen to be hardened.

So, both is about predestination.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#17
Reading Ro 9 starting at v1 through v33 it says Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe. That is THE main idea Paul was getting across. It is in no way about God predestinating only certain individuals to eternal life.
LOL!!!!! So there we have it, simpletonized and settled. Romans 9 is boiled down to "Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe." :rolleyes:

Such profundity and exposition not witnessed since the dawn of the age? :D

Goodness sake, reminds me of the preachers who think they've exhausted the book of Romans in 3 easy "sermons." You haven't even touched the chapter, and have simply reduced it down to a statement to garner amen's as if it covered the gist of it. You've little respect for the Word, Gospel, or Scripture my friend, if not just blatant disrespect. Have you even bothered to read it? Your summary hardly represents its contents.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#18
LOL!!!!! So there we have it, simpletonized and settled. Romans 9 is boiled down to "Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe." :rolleyes:

Such profundity and exposition not witnessed since the dawn of the age? :D

Goodness sake, reminds me of the preachers who think they've exhausted the book of Romans in 3 easy "sermons." You haven't even touched the chapter, and have simply reduced it down to a statement to garner amen's as if it covered the gist of it. You've little respect for the Word, Gospel, or Scripture my friend, if not just blatant disrespect. Have you even bothered to read it? Your summary hardly represents its contents.
While for example Karl Barth´s commentary book "Epistle to the Romans" has 700 pages...

Calvinists seem to be more into Romans than others :)
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#19
LOL!!!!! So there we have it, simpletonized and settled. Romans 9 is boiled down to "Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ not by works of the law as the Jews believe." :rolleyes:

Such profundity and exposition not witnessed since the dawn of the age? :D

Goodness sake, reminds me of the preachers who think they've exhausted the book of Romans in 3 easy "sermons." You haven't even touched the chapter, and have simply reduced it down to a statement to garner amen's as if it covered the gist of it. You've little respect for the Word, Gospel, or Scripture my friend, if not just blatant disrespect. Have you even bothered to read it? Your summary hardly represents its contents.
Prove I haven't read Ro 9.
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#20
Paul is using the image of two brothers and showing that they were predestined/predetermined/chosen/elect before they could do anything good or evil.

And taking this picture he is applying it on the situation between Israel and other nations. Other nations were also chosen to be full of Christians and Israel was chosen to be hardened.

So, both is about predestination.
Ro 9 says they were the elect to be the family line for the promise given to Abraham. ..that's it. Anything about predestination is being read into the chapter.