Who are the two witnesses/prophets in Revelation?

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FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#1
I thought the 2 witnesses/prophets in Revelation are Elijah and Enoch since they never died here on earth.


Hebrews 9:27


“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."





Am I mistaken here?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,195
6,508
113
#2
They are mentioned in Zechariah, but for the moment, I doubt anyone knows their names in this age; don't worry though, they will.......
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#4
If you go by scripture ; There are two names ; Moses and Elijah . Representing The Law and The Prophets .

Zechariah 4:14

Revelation 11:4

Considering those two verses ;
who is the Lord of All the Earth ? He is Jesus Christ. That is who returns, in Revelation 11:15
at the Last Trump ( The Last Trump is the 7th ) .

Who appeared with Jesus Christ on the mount of Transfiguration ? Matthew 17:3

We know God used Moses to bring the plagues upon Egypt, in freeing Israel from the captivity to Egypt .
God freed Israel .

Here is a verse where Moses was used, the first plague that turned The Nile river to blood
Exodus 7:20


Elijah called Fire from God, down to consume people, in 2 Kings 1

God also used Elijah, to stop the rain, for many years according to Gods word, 1 Kings 17:1
And allow rain when that ended 1 Kings 18:41


God tells us Elijah will be sent, before The Lords Day. Before the Lords Day.
Malachi 4:4-6 .

What then are the miracles attributed to the two Witnesses ?

You can read that in Revelation 11.

Given the time element : The Two witnesses appear during Satan's Tribulation. The days given, indicate
through study, that the two witnesses appear a short time before Satan and his angels get here.
3 and half days before the end of The Tribulation ( 5 months according to Revelation )
The two witnesses are killed before The Real Christ returns at The Seventh Trump ( The Last ) .

About the given to man to die once and Moses.The Bible says Moses died. But given what the Bible
says of Moses, it leaves open the question, that something different actually happened.

Keep in mind, when Christ transfigured Moses appeared along with Him.
Its likely what happened in full.

Consider what Satan was questioning Michael about reported by Jude.

Given that evidence from the Bible : The two witnessed are likely Moses and Elijah .

There is probably a lot more that the bible teaches, but I'm still reading the Bible....


















 
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O

OtherWay210

Guest
#5
to clarify, the 5 months is the length of the Trib Christ teaches. Its been shortened.
The two witnesses are killed, then 3 and half days later they rise when Chrsit returns .
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#6
Considering those two verses ; who is the Lord of All the Earth ? He is Jesus Christ. That is who returns, in Revelation 11:15 at the Last Trump ( The Last Trump is the 7th ) .


Morning OtherWay210,

The "last trumpet" of 1 Cor.15:52 has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments in Revelation, as they are two different types of trumpet with different results.

By making the 7th trumpet the "last trumpet" you are putting the living church through all of the seals and the trumpet judgments of God's wrath, which believers are not appointed to suffer.

The "last trumpet" is the blessed hope, the appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. In opposition, the trumpet judgments, including the 7th, are plagues of God's wrath.

In addition, there is nothing in the context in or around the sounding of the 7th trumpet that even suggests the event of the gathering of the church as taking place. The 7th trumpet is a plague of wrath, not a blessing!

The only reason that this teaching of the "last trumpet" being the same as the "7th trumpet" is because of the word "trumpet." However, it is important to not pigeonhole words in scripture. The word "trumpet" is not specific to just one event. In fact there are many different types of trumpets in scripture which initiate different events.

The bottom line is that the "last trumpet" is a blessing for the church and the "7th trumpet" of the trumpet judgments is one of the plagues of God's wrath, which the church is not appointed to suffer.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#7
to clarify, the 5 months is the length of the Trib Christ teaches. Its been shortened.
The two witnesses are killed, then 3 and half days later they rise when Chrsit returns .
Just FYI, the length of the tribulation is seven years, with the last 3 1/2 years designated as the great tribulation. The 5 months that you are referring to is the length of the 5th trumpet. The seven years is divided in two 3 1/2 year periods, which is the shortened version. What Jesus is saying in that verse is that, if that seven year period where allowed to go on any longer, then no one would be left alive. Since seven years has been specified in scripture, then it cannot be altered. It must be fulfilled. That last seven years will be the fulfillment of the seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem and therefore must take place.
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#8
To : Ahwatukee

Christ returns in 1 cor 15
and
Christ returns in Revelation .


Same results ..

The Length of the tribulation was shortened by
Christ Himself to Five Literal Months.
His teachings in Revelation and Matthew 24 explain.

The Lords Day is taught from Genesis to Revelation,
and they all say the same .
They may convey the message in different language
;but they never present a new message.

There is only one gospel .

There is no interpretation of end time prophecy .

I am not going to argue it. You can believe as you wish..

I will do my best to allow scriptures to speak for itself...

I will not be addressing a flood of comments nor commentary .
Mans books and commentary about end times, is useless .



 
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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,862
9,581
113
#9
Why is this thread duplicated in the BDF?
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#10
blue_ladybug He has added a Poll option to the other thread. He probably forgot to add it .
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#11
Christ returns in 1 cor 15 and Christ returns in Revelation .


The return of Christ in 1 Cor.15:51-53 is the gathering of the church, which takes place prior to the seven years and God's wrath. Where Christ's return in Rev.19:11-21 is his return to the earth to end the age. It is important to differentiate between these two events.

The Lords Day is taught from Genesis to Revelation, and they all say the same thing


The "day of the Lord" is a future time in which God's wrath will be poured out upon the earth in conjunction with the Lord's return to end the age. It is during this time when God will pour out his wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. The day of the Lord will not begin until the church has been gathered.

I have studied end time events for over 40 years, which is why I am sharing this information with you, which comes from cross-referencing and comparing scripture. Therefore, it is not "me believing I wish," but comes from and is supported by scripture via sound exegesis.

Mans books and commentary about end times, is useless to me .


Your assumption is wrong, as I have not garnered the information that I shared with you from the teachings of men, but specifically from scripture and only scripture.
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#13
To: Ahwatukee
If you want to share something with me personally . Maybe we can talk in Chat.

Im not wading through comments and reading what i dont find supported in the bible.
Remember you believe in rapture, and I do not .
Because rapture is not in the bible and i consider it one of the worst doctrines around.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#14
Remember you believe in rapture, and I do not . Because rapture is not in the bible and i consider it one of the worst doctrines around.


Forgive me, but I believe that it is just a matter of you not having enough study in this area. You say that you don't believe in the "rapture" because it is not in the Bible. The word "Rapture" is found in the Latin translation and means the same as the Greek equivalent "Harpazo" which is defined as "A snatching away, force suddenly exercised, caught up." Therefore, the event of the gathering of the church, i.e. the catching away, is definitely supported by scripture, as can be seen below:

"
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be "caught up" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

Therefore, it is not one of the worst doctrines in the Bible, but is a promise from the Lord to his church. 1 Thes.4:13-18 is a detailed account of the promise the Lord made in John 14:1-3. Forgive me again, but I think that you believe that it is one of the worst doctrines around, because you don't understand it and are just repeating the false teachings regarding this event. In writing to Titus, Paul referred to the gathering of the church in the following manner:

"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Paul mentions this same event again in 1 Cor.15:51-53"

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep (be dead), but we will all be changed (immortal and glorified)— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable (indecayable), and we will be changed (immortal and glorified). For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality." (my add in parenthesis)

The scriptural fact is that in John 14:1-3, Jesus said that he was going to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for us there and that he was coming back to take us there, that where He is we may be also. 1 Thes.4:13-18 is a detailed account of John 14:1-3, which is what every true believer should be looking forward to and anticipating. Following the gathering of the church will be the revealing of that antichrist and the time period of God's wrath and you definitely don't want to be on the earth during that time.
 
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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,261
5,618
113
#15




"
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be "caught up" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

Please don't consider my question an argument or a contradiction. I don't mean it that way. A challenge perhaps. I am undecided about rapture timings.

Can you tell me why the above [1 Thessalonians 4:16] isn't simply happening at the resurrection? Since there IS a resurrection happening there. (dead in Christ rise first) Why is it not at the end? After the tribulation period. Why must it be placed pre-tribulation?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#16
If you go by scripture ; There are two names ; Moses and Elijah . Representing The Law and The Prophets .

Zechariah 4:14

Revelation 11:4

Considering those two verses ;
who is the Lord of All the Earth ? He is Jesus Christ. That is who returns, in Revelation 11:15
at the Last Trump ( The Last Trump is the 7th ) .

Who appeared with Jesus Christ on the mount of Transfiguration ? Matthew 17:3

We know God used Moses to bring the plagues upon Egypt, in freeing Israel from the captivity to Egypt .
God freed Israel .

Here is a verse where Moses was used, the first plague that turned The Nile river to blood
Exodus 7:20


Elijah called Fire from God, down to consume people, in 2 Kings 1

God also used Elijah, to stop the rain, for many years according to Gods word, 1 Kings 17:1
And allow rain when that ended 1 Kings 18:41


God tells us Elijah will be sent, before The Lords Day. Before the Lords Day.
Malachi 4:4-6 .

What then are the miracles attributed to the two Witnesses ?

You can read that in Revelation 11.

Given the time element : The Two witnesses appear during Satan's Tribulation. The days given, indicate
through study, that the two witnesses appear a short time before Satan and his angels get here.
3 and half days before the end of The Tribulation ( 5 months according to Revelation )
The two witnesses are killed before The Real Christ returns at The Seventh Trump ( The Last ) .

About the given to man to die once and Moses.The Bible says Moses died. But given what the Bible
says of Moses, it leaves open the question, that something different actually happened.

Keep in mind, when Christ transfigured Moses appeared along with Him.
Its likely what happened in full.

Consider what Satan was questioning Michael about reported by Jude.

Given that evidence from the Bible : The two witnessed are likely Moses and Elijah .

There is probably a lot more that the bible teaches, but I'm still reading the Bible....


















Some suggest Enoch because he was clearly (as per the Bible) taken up and did not physically die
The WORD says that all men die once (yet not all will suffer the second death)

(and we know that THE LORD is first and before all things as THE SON OF GOD / THE SON OF MAN

Enoch and Elijah never tasted physical death

Could you please explain where Enoch, a man, fits in with the completion of the age as we know it sinc ALL men must die once and then comes the judgement
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#17
The two witnesses came down from heaven as heavenly (though men) witnesses and then died and then were again immediately taken back up to heaven

where does Enoch fit in the equation as a man who pleased GOD whom GOD has taken up before he could taste death?

Where is Enoch in the end of times and the culmination of all things
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#18
There are three hearings of the gospel before the end comes

Now through human earthly witnesses
then by two heavenly witnesses (men and not angels)
finally by angels
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#19
To: miknik5

Concerning Enoch, i do not know .
As far as I can see from the verses I posted, Enoch is Not mentioned.
Thats not to say, hes not mentioned somewhere. Moses and Elijah performed those miracles .
Enoch's Not recorded as doing them.

We have to be careful to not force something not expressly stated . Its given to man to die once.
But are we assuming this is applied to the two witnesses ?
Or do you have actual scripture that says its a must for the two witnesses ?

Best to assume nothing .

I forgot to mention . Moses was burred by God The Bible states.
That is unusual . Again it was Moses, and Elijah, that appeared with Christ on the mount of transfiguration.
Christ was transfigured with them. Enoch was not with them.





 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#20
To: miknik5

Concerning Enoch, i do not know .
As far as I can see from the verses I posted, Enoch is Not mentioned.
Thats not to say, hes not mentioned somewhere. Moses and Elijah performed those miracles .
Enoch's Not recorded as doing them.

We have to be careful to not force something not expressly stated . Its given to man to die once.
But are we assuming this is applied to the two witnesses ?
Or do you have actual scripture that says its a must for the two witnesses ?

Best to assume nothing .

I forgot to mention . Moses was burred by God The Bible states.
That is unusual . Again it was Moses, and Elijah, that appeared with Christ on the mount of transfiguration.
Christ was transfigured with them. Enoch was not with them.





Yes That is true

Yet Moses died physically and does not need to physically come back and die again

Enoch and Elijah did not die physically
and all men are flesh and flesh will be changed for those who will not suffer the second death
moses doesn’t fit that pattern