Purgatory

[Blain]

Why would you "wonder about a place of holding" when the New Testament clearly teaches that all the saints who die go directly to be with the Lord? At the same time the unsaved dead go to Hades, are in torment, and then are finally cast into the Lake of Fire.

Because while it only mentioned a few times Abrahams bosom is mentioned and appears to refer to a place of holding of some kind. The bible does not actually say that people instantly go to either heaven or hell in fact it seems to say the opposite 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Why would the dead in Christ rise again to go heaven if they already were in heaven?

And also no one seems to know for sure what lies in that moment between death and eternity, there of course a final destination but the bible seems to imply something else besides a final destination.

 

[Shamah]

Because while it only mentioned a few times Abrahams bosom is mentioned and appears to refer to a place of holding of some kind. The bible does not actually say that people instantly go to either heaven or hell in fact it seems to say the opposite 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Why would the dead in Christ rise again to go heaven if they already were in heaven?

And also no one seems to know for sure what lies in that moment between death and eternity, there of course a final destination but the bible seems to imply something else besides a final destination.

When Yahshua/Jesus talks about Abraham's bosom it is a parable.

For there is also Yahshua's bosom:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:19-31, "16:19, "“But there was a certain rich man who used to dress in purple and fine linen and lived luxuriously every day."16:20, "“And there was a certain beggar named El‛azar, being covered with sores, who was placed at his gate,"16:21, "and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Indeed, even the dogs came and licked his sores."16:22, "“And it came to be that the beggar died, and was carried by the messengers to the bosom of Aḇraham. And the rich man also died and was buried."16:23, "“And while suffering tortures in She’ol, having lifted up his eyes, he saw Aḇraham far away, and El‛azar in his bosom."16:24, "“And crying out he said, ‘Father Aḇraham, have compassion on me, and send El‛azar to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering in this flame.’"16:25, "“But Aḇraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your life you received your good, and likewise El‛azar the evil, but now he is comforted and you are suffering."16:26, "And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set, so that those who wish to pass from here to you are unable, nor do those from there pass to us.’"16:27, "“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,"16:28, "for I have five brothers, let him warn them, lest they also come to this place of torture.’"16:29, "“Aḇraham said to him, ‘They have Mosheh and the prophets, let them hear them.’"16:30, "“And he said, ‘No, father Aḇraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they shall repent.’"16:31, "“But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Mosheh and the prophets,e neither would they be persuaded even if one should rise from the dead.’ ” Footnote: eSee Luk 9:33, Mal 4:4-5."[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:18-30, "13:18, "“I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen, but that the Scripture might be filled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’ Psa 41:9."13:19, "“Now I say to you, before it takes place, that when it does take place, you shall believe that I am."13:20, "“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send, receives Me. And he who receives Me, receives Him who sent Me.”"13:21, "When [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]had said this He was troubled in spirit, and witnessed and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one of you shall deliver Me up.”"13:22, "The taught ones looked at one another, doubting of whom He spoke."13:23, "And one of His taught ones, whom [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]loved, was reclining on the bosom of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]."13:24, "Shim‛on Kĕpha then motioned to him to ask who it was of whom He spoke."13:25, "And leaning back on the breast of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]he said to Him, “Master, who is it?”"13:26, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Yehuḏah from Qerioth, son of Shim‛on."13:27, "And after the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], therefore, said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”"13:28, "But no one at the table knew why He said this to him,"13:29, "for some were supposing, because Yehuḏah had the bag, that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was saying to him, “Buy what we need for the festival,” or that he should give somewhat to the poor."13:30, "So, having received the piece of bread, he then went out straightaway, and it was night."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]bosom” is word #G2859. κόλπος (kolpos)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Strong's Greek: 2859. κόλπος (kolpos) — 6 Occurrences[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 6:38 N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: εἰς τὸν κόλπον ὑμῶν ᾧ[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: to you. They will pour into your lap a good[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: into your bosom. For with the same[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: into the lap of you with that[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:22 N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: εἰς τὸν κόλπον Ἀβραάμ ἀπέθανεν[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: Abraham's bosom: the rich man[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: into the bosom of Abraham died[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:23 N-DMP[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: ἐν τοῖς κόλποις αὐτοῦ[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: away and Lazarus in his bosom.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: in his bosom.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: in the bosom of him[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 1:18 N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: God who is in the bosom of the Father,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: is in the bosom of the Father, he[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: in the bosom of the Father[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:23 N-DMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: ἐν τῷ κόλπῳ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: on Jesus' bosom one[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: on Jesus' bosom one of his[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: in the bosom of Jesus[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 27:39 N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: οὐκ ἐπεγίνωσκον κόλπον δέ τινα[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: but they did observe a bay with a beach,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: a certain creek with[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: not they did recognize bay however a certain[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

If it were not a parable, it would contraict many many verses that say the dead are sleeping in the dust, unaware...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, “For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know naught, nor do they have any more reward, for their remembrance is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy have now perished; and they no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 115:17, “The dead do not praise Yah, Nor any going down to silence.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 13:3, “Look! Answer me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]my Strength; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep in death.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 14:12, “and man shall lie down and not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they awake not, nor are aroused from their sleep.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 17:13, “If I wait – She’ol is my house, I shall make my bed in darkness."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 17:16, “Would it sink down into She’ol? Would we together go down into the dust?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 12:2, “and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth wake up, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches, everlasting abhorrence.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]That's an awful lot of scripture that tells us the same thing, the dead sleep until the resurrection.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]There are 31 references to "hell" in the Old Testament of the King James Bible. All 31 "hells" are translated from the one Hebrew word sheol.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates:—grave, hell, pit.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]First we will go through all 31 references to "hell" in the Old Testament of the King James Bible. All 31 "hells" are translated from the one Hebrew word sheol.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates:—grave, hell, pit.[/FONT]

 

[Nehemiah6]

Because while it only mentioned a few times Abraham's bosom is mentioned and appears to refer to a place of holding of some kind.

Are you not aware that upon the resurrection of Christ all the OT saints were taken to Heaven? So THERE IS NO MORE ANY ABRAHAM'S BOSOM.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (Eph 4:8-10)

The OT saints were held "captive" in Sheol/Hades within "Abraham's bosom" until Christ descended into Hades (the lower parts of the earth) and took them all with Him at His resurrection. To know where they are now study Hebrews 12:22-24. You are assuming there is uncertainty about this matter, when there is absolutely no uncertainty.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If it were not a parable, it would contradict many many verses that say the dead are sleeping in the dust, unaware...

You prefer the false doctrine of Soul Sleep to the true doctrine of the saints being very much alive and awake in Heaven. Only the cults hold to this doctrine.

And there is no "contradiction". The OT gave us a partial view of the afterlife, but Christ and the apostles have given us the full picture. So why don't you believe them? The OT saints were in Sheol/Hades ONLY until the resurrection of Christ.

 

[Shamah]

You prefer the false doctrine of Soul Sleep to the true doctrine of the saints being very much alive and awake in Heaven. Only the cults hold to this doctrine.

And there is no "contradiction". The OT gave us a partial view of the afterlife, but Christ and the apostles have given us the full picture. So why don't you believe them? The OT saints were in Sheol/Hades ONLY until the resurrection of Christ.

Cool story.

Again, I did not say there was a contradiction, if Abraham's bosom was purgatory it would contradict.

Just because you proclaim false doctrine does not make it so.

Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten."

Psalms 115:17, “The dead do not praise Yah, Nor any going down to silence.”

Psalms 13:3, “Look! Answer me, O יהוה my Strength; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep in death.”

Job 14:12, “and man shall lie down and not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they awake not, nor are aroused from their sleep.”

Job 17:13, “If I wait – She’ol is my house, I shall make my bed in darkness."

Job 17:16, “Would it sink down into She’ol? Would we together go down into the dust?”

Daniel 12:2, “and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth wake up, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches, everlasting abhorrence.”

That's an awful lot of scripture that tells us the same thing, the dead sleep until the resurrection.

There are 31 references to "hell" in the Old Testament of the King James Bible. All 31 "hells" are translated from the one Hebrew word sheol.

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates:—grave, hell, pit.

First we will go through all 31 references to "hell" in the Old Testament of the King James Bible. All 31 "hells" are translated from the one Hebrew word sheol.

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates:—grave, hell, pit.

 

[Blain]

When Yahshua/Jesus talks about Abraham's bosom it is a parable.

For there is also Yahshua's bosom:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:19-31, "16:19, "“But there was a certain rich man who used to dress in purple and fine linen and lived luxuriously every day."16:20, "“And there was a certain beggar named El‛azar, being covered with sores, who was placed at his gate,"16:21, "and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Indeed, even the dogs came and licked his sores."16:22, "“And it came to be that the beggar died, and was carried by the messengers to the bosom of Aḇraham. And the rich man also died and was buried."16:23, "“And while suffering tortures in She’ol, having lifted up his eyes, he saw Aḇraham far away, and El‛azar in his bosom."16:24, "“And crying out he said, ‘Father Aḇraham, have compassion on me, and send El‛azar to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering in this flame.’"16:25, "“But Aḇraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your life you received your good, and likewise El‛azar the evil, but now he is comforted and you are suffering."16:26, "And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set, so that those who wish to pass from here to you are unable, nor do those from there pass to us.’"16:27, "“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,"16:28, "for I have five brothers, let him warn them, lest they also come to this place of torture.’"16:29, "“Aḇraham said to him, ‘They have Mosheh and the prophets, let them hear them.’"16:30, "“And he said, ‘No, father Aḇraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they shall repent.’"16:31, "“But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Mosheh and the prophets,e neither would they be persuaded even if one should rise from the dead.’ ” Footnote: eSee Luk 9:33, Mal 4:4-5."[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:18-30, "13:18, "“I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen, but that the Scripture might be filled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’ Psa 41:9."13:19, "“Now I say to you, before it takes place, that when it does take place, you shall believe that I am."13:20, "“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send, receives Me. And he who receives Me, receives Him who sent Me.”"13:21, "When [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]had said this He was troubled in spirit, and witnessed and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one of you shall deliver Me up.”"13:22, "The taught ones looked at one another, doubting of whom He spoke."13:23, "And one of His taught ones, whom [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]loved, was reclining on the bosom of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]."13:24, "Shim‛on Kĕpha then motioned to him to ask who it was of whom He spoke."13:25, "And leaning back on the breast of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]he said to Him, “Master, who is it?”"13:26, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Yehuḏah from Qerioth, son of Shim‛on."13:27, "And after the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], therefore, said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”"13:28, "But no one at the table knew why He said this to him,"13:29, "for some were supposing, because Yehuḏah had the bag, that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was saying to him, “Buy what we need for the festival,” or that he should give somewhat to the poor."13:30, "So, having received the piece of bread, he then went out straightaway, and it was night."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]bosom” is word #G2859. κόλπος (kolpos)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Strong's Greek: 2859. κόλπος (kolpos) — 6 Occurrences[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 6:38 N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: εἰς τὸν κόλπον ὑμῶν ᾧ[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: to you. They will pour into your lap a good[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: into your bosom. For with the same[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: into the lap of you with that[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:22 N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: εἰς τὸν κόλπον Ἀβραάμ ἀπέθανεν[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: Abraham's bosom: the rich man[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: into the bosom of Abraham died[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:23 N-DMP[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: ἐν τοῖς κόλποις αὐτοῦ[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: away and Lazarus in his bosom.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: in his bosom.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: in the bosom of him[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 1:18 N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: God who is in the bosom of the Father,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: is in the bosom of the Father, he[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: in the bosom of the Father[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:23 N-DMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: ἐν τῷ κόλπῳ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: on Jesus' bosom one[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: on Jesus' bosom one of his[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: in the bosom of Jesus[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 27:39 N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]GRK: οὐκ ἐπεγίνωσκον κόλπον δέ τινα[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NAS: but they did observe a bay with a beach,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: a certain creek with[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]INT: not they did recognize bay however a certain[/FONT]

Even if a parable that doesn't mean it isn't more than just a story. Jesus often used parables to describe actual events as well like the Pharisee and tax collector for instance that was him using parable to describe an actual event that happened. Kind of like how we use analogies to describe actual things

 

[Blain]

Are you not aware that upon the resurrection of Christ all the OT saints were taken to Heaven? So THERE IS NO MORE ANY ABRAHAM'S BOSOM.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (Eph 4:8-10)

The OT saints were held "captive" in Sheol/Hades within "Abraham's bosom" until Christ descended into Hades (the lower parts of the earth) and took them all with Him at His resurrection. To know where they are now study Hebrews 12:22-24. You are assuming there is uncertainty about this matter, when there is absolutely no uncertainty.

And where does the scriptures say they were taken up with him upon his resurrection?

 

[Jackson123]

What is everyones outlook on purgatory? Although this term is a catholic term, In the bible it says we will go through a fire of purification. Does anyone have anymore information on this?

there is No purgatory. Fire of purification is a problem or persecution when we still live oN earth to make our faith strong. In my experience, I am spiritually stronger when I am weak (sick or brook)

that time we need God and come closer to Him.

 

[preston39]

Are you not aware that upon the resurrection of Christ all the OT saints were taken to Heaven? So THERE IS NO MORE ANY ABRAHAM'S BOSOM......

N...,

Please show supporting scripture for this conclusion.

 

[jaybird88]

Depends of which judgment your are talking about. There is one for saints and quite another one for sinners.

either one, where do they go to serve their judgment?

 

[jaybird88]

Purgatory is an unbiblical creation of the catholic church. It is a denial of the sufficiency of the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to cover our sins.. Thus those who believe in purgatory are not covered by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..

it wasnt created by the Catholic church, Jews were teaching it before Jesus started His ministry.

 

[stillness]

"It's appointed to man once to die, then comes the judgment."
As believers we are identified in the death of Christ and face judgment mow:
"Judgment must begin at the house of God."
“Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.”
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
"Strive to enter in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able."
Jesus is the door and those who follow Him will rule with Him in the first Resurrection.
"If we suffer with Him, we shall rule with Him."
"Some were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection."
In 1John, tree groups are mentioned, children, fathers and young men who are strong and know the word of God and have overcome the evil one. The last group is referred as overcomers.
John goes on to warn "Love not the world, if anyone loves the world, the Love of the Father is not in Him."

Paul addressed a church that was divided and carnal, as babes in Christ.
1 Corinthians 3
"Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?... By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved, even though only as one escaping through the flames."

 

[Deade]

it wasnt created by the Catholic church, Jews were teaching it before Jesus started His ministry.

Wait, wait jaybird88,

All my Jewish friends tell me they have no traditional doctrine of heaven or hell. They typically think of death as sleep. So what Jews were teaching this? Do you have references.

Yours,

Deade

 

[jaybird88]

Wait, wait jaybird88,

All my Jewish friends tell me they have no traditional doctrine of heaven or hell. They typically think of death as sleep. So what Jews were teaching this? Do you have references.

Yours,

Deade

chabad.org
The Soul and the Afterlife

"If the soul requires cleansing of any misdeeds, the soul is sent to Gehinom, which is a heavenly purification depot. The works of Mussar describe Gehinom as a horrific place where excruciating punishments are meted out to the sinner. Based on the nature of sin is how the punishment is administered."


the Essene Jews of Qumran write on the subject of soul purification which happens before the soul can return back to the Most High. these writings go back to the times before Jesus and the 12, 200 BC - 80 AD

 

[Nehemiah6]

N...,

Please show supporting scripture for this conclusion.

If you are looking for an EXPLICIT statement in Scripture, you will not find it. However, if you are prepared to study this matter properly through the New Testament, you will find it IMPLICITLY.

One of the common mistakes today is for Christians to be looking for explicit statements about things which are implied. Since the Bible is not a textbook of Systematic Theology, it doesn't work that way. That is why we need to compare Scripture with Scripture and connect the dots.

 

[Nehemiah6]

chabad.org
The Soul and the Afterlife

"If the soul requires cleansing of any misdeeds, the soul is sent to Gehinom, which is a heavenly purification depot. The works of Mussar describe Gehinom as a horrific place where excruciating punishments are meted out to the sinner. Based on the nature of sin is how the punishment is administered."

the Essene Jews of Qumran write on the subject of soul purification which happens before the soul can return back to the Most High. these writings go back to the times before Jesus and the 12, 200 BC - 80 AD

So what? Are you interested in what Christ has to say about these matters, or what men have tried to figure out?

 

[OneFaith]

​Jesus said to the thief on the cross “Today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Paradise is not heaven where Gods throne is, it is by Abraham’s side. When Lazarus and the rich man died, the rich man went to torment, and Lazarus went to Abraham’s side. We know that this was not after judgement day because the rich man asked if someone could go back and warn his family. Abraham replied they need only to listen to the prophets, so I’m thinking this took place during Old Testament times.

Once you are dead, your fate is sealed for all eternity. You cannot have any more chances after you die. “They will be judged according to what they did while in the body.”

 

[ComeLordJesus]

You mean no man (physically dead) has suffered the second death yet which is spiritual

However all men will die once
But what of living men now

They will physically die but how can they avoid the second death?

Unbelievers will not be resurrected with the saints.

Rev.20:6 says: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ , and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The second death is not spiritual but is the physical death of unblievers.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. v.14

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abdominal, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 21:8

There will be a second resurrection and it will be unbelievers. The first resurrection is a resurrection to life and the second to death.

 

[Nehemiah6]

​Jesus said to the thief on the cross “Today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Paradise is not heaven where Gods throne is, it is by Abraham’s side.

Paradise is indeed where God's throne is. That is why it is called "the Paradise of God" (Rev 2:7).

Since Christ was in Sheol/Hades immediately after His crucifixion and while His body was in the tomb, and Paradise was in the New Jerusalem in Heaven, that saying of Christ was not literally fulfilled on that day, but since it was anticipated after those three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, it was an accomplished fact for Christ.

When the soul and spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ went to Hades, He did go into the abode of the righteous dead (Abraham's bosom), and then He "preached to the spirits in prison". This was not the preaching of the Gospel but the proclamation of His victory over sin, death, Hades, Hell, and Satan. His voice would have been heard by the unrighteous dead (separated from the righteous dead), as well as the spirits in prison in Tartarus. But after His resurrection, Christ took "Abraham's bosom" or the inhabitants of that region with Him to Paradise. Thus we find "the spirits of just men made perfect" in the New Jerusalem (Heb 12:22-24).