Purgatory
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Everlasting means .... Everlasting:::
Matthew 25: KJV
41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: {42} For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: {43} I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. {44} Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? {45} Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. {46} And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Matthew 25: KJV
41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: {42} For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: {43} I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. {44} Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? {45} Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. {46} And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
I've run across those who attempt to claim that the comma is in the wrong place many times, which is just an apologetic invented to support their belief of soul sleep. The correct translation which is, "Truly i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise" puts the focus on the spirits of Jesus and the thief being in paradise after the death of their bodies that very day. Where the other translation which says "Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise" puts the focus on when Jesus said it, which is ridiculous and makes Jesus sound like he's doing Shakespeare in the Park. Do you actually think Jesus needed to tell the man what day he was informing him of this? Satan just keeps pumpin' out the lies and he has plenty of foot soldiers to carry it forth.
On top of that, every single one of the major translations has the comma placed before the word "today," not after. What do you think are the odds of everyone of those translators getting it wrong?
The reference to sleep is always referring to the body and not the spirit/soul. The spirits of Jesus and the man crucified with him went to that place of paradise where Abraham and Lazarus were in the heart of the earth, that place of comfort.
Moses and Elijah spoke with Jesus on the mount when he was transfigured.
At the opening of the 5th seal the souls of those who will have been killed are seen under the altar, conscious and aware and having a conversation with the Lord.
"For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
God is essentially immortal, while mankind obtains it
Well I have certainly learned a lot just from discussion. I never really understood why Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping, I thought maybe it was just another way to say he was dead but it goes deeper than that because if you are sleeping eventually you will wake up. And if say death is really only sleeping and we are in a holding place of sort until we wake up then that makes even more sense.
John even went so far to scold those who came to hear his message of the one who was coming after him who was before him because they would not repent and be baptized:
who told you you to flee from the coming wrath. Bring forth fruit in keeping with repentence
I believe he meant now. While they were still physically alive
who told you you to flee from the coming wrath. Bring forth fruit in keeping with repentence
I believe he meant now. While they were still physically alive
I don’t believe in purgatory. Have I misunderstood your post
there is only one way to leave the tent of this body
there is only one way for the tent to “sleep”
the spirit, however, is another thing completely
it doesn’t remain with the physical vessel of our body
it either ascends and waits
or descends and waits
there is only one way to leave the tent of this body
there is only one way for the tent to “sleep”
the spirit, however, is another thing completely
it doesn’t remain with the physical vessel of our body
it either ascends and waits
or descends and waits
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And no. There is no holding place other than heaven and hell and no I’m not cherry picking
i have in mind more than Paul’s words about impending physical death for the believers
I have in mind the cloud of witnesses as well as those souls under the altar crying out how long sovereign lord until you avenge our death and put an end to all who destroy the earth
i have in mind more than Paul’s words about impending physical death for the believers
I have in mind the cloud of witnesses as well as those souls under the altar crying out how long sovereign lord until you avenge our death and put an end to all who destroy the earth
I don't believe in purgatory either but I do think it's possible that there is a place of holding where we are taken until Jesus come back and the dead in Christ rise first. And that place I spoke of in my dream is what made me start to seek answers about this place of holding, it was clearly a heavenly place but I also knew it wasn't heaven itself. The spirit can leave the earthly body but I think the soul is what we are when we ascend to our final destination.
Just as the body without the spirit is a mass of lifeless flesh
So also the soul is animated by the mans spirit....it’s the essence and the seat of passion of a person which relays and expresses their feelings and emotions
and according to revelation the souls in heaven (under the altar) very much can relay their feelings/passions and are very much understood and can understand
So also the soul is animated by the mans spirit....it’s the essence and the seat of passion of a person which relays and expresses their feelings and emotions
and according to revelation the souls in heaven (under the altar) very much can relay their feelings/passions and are very much understood and can understand
Well your description about the spirit and soul make sense however being under the alter does not always mean the alter as an place rather it's being spoken of as a statues of sacrifice. They were the martyrs sacrificing their lives for the gospel and testimony of Jesus Christ. And again assuming they were in heaven why rest a little longer under the rest of their brothers come?