Purgatory

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Rsanchezhopes

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
2
0
0
39
#1
What is everyones outlook on purgatory? Although this term is a catholic term, In the bible it says we will go through a fire of purification. Does anyone have anymore information on this?
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
#2
What is everyones outlook on purgatory? Although this term is a catholic term, In the bible it says we will go through a fire of purification. Does anyone have anymore information on this?
Seems to me to say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient.

The Biblical passage that people try to use to support Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15
it refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”
 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#3
What is everyones outlook on purgatory? Although this term is a catholic term, In the bible it says we will go through a fire of purification. Does anyone have anymore information on this?
That fire of purification happens now so that our faith (more precious than gold) will prove genuine

Genuine in that it will rest entirely in and on the person of JESUS CHRIST


read Peter’s letters


having faith in times times of sunshine is very easy
having faith in times of storms is another thing completely
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#6
I assume you are talking about while we are alive, how does that happen?
Trials...sufferings...these things that come up against us that Satan uses for our downfall but what GOD uses so as to strengthen us

Look at Peters letters please and you’ll understand

GOD is a launderer a purifier a pruner and refiner
HE purifies is so that our faith more precious than gold (though tried in the fire) will prove genuine resulting in HIS glory and praise alone
 

Dotann

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2012
146
6
0
#7
Hi

Well Purification means to cleanse and it was performed way back in the old testament as in Numbers 25:13 In this covenant, I give him and his descendants a permanent right to priesthood, for in his zeal for me, his God, he purified the people of Israel, making them right with me.
So in this passage Moses was making a intercession with the Lord upon the peoples behalf and Due to the mercy and humility and act of obedience he showed God purified them to make them clean.

When ever we sin and repent its an act of cleansing and purification that we go through as we have a direct relationship with the Lord and we dont have to go through another person like Moses or a Priest to step upon our behalf as a mediator between us and God. We have Jesus as our own Savior who we can go to personally. That is one of the huge differences between why we know for a fact their is know such thing as purgatory. Purgatory was developed due to the belief that people did not have a personal relationship with the Savior and those who could not get to a Priest or someone of that nature to confess their sins too as a mediator upon their behalf to God to "clean" them would perish. So they came up with this idea and twisted the scriptures into something more feasible that would please their human nature.

As for fire we all will be judged one day once we die. Their will be a judgement for those who are saved and one who are not, well this is addressed below in

[h=1]Matthew 3:11New Living Translation (NLT)[/h]11 [FONT=&quot]“I baptize with[/FONT][FONT=&quot][a][/FONT][FONT=&quot] water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am—so much greater that I’m not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][b[/FONT]

So this means the Holy Spirit. When a person is Born again we have the Holy Spirit living within us and His Word is like fire that burns all that is evil to consume us. Or at least it should if we live right. When we dont that is when we go to Him and repent and ask for forgiveness through grace and mercy and believe through our Savior knowing that His blood was enough to save us through His sacrifice on the cross to cleanse us once and for all.
That is we shouldn't need to ask to keep being saved. Once saved and bought through His blood its a done deal. Now asking for forgiveness is a different story. Its like having children. You have kids and they will always be your kids and they will always be part of your family no matter what. But from time to time they disobey and when they do, they need to correct what they have done. But that does not remove them from the family just because they have not obeyed and its the same with those in Gods family. Once we have received Him as our Savior and are purchased with His blood and know and believed He changed us inside. We are His. Our names are written on the book of life with His blood once we are saved and its instantaneous and nothing can remove it. His Word in red is His promise and His promises are never broken.

His Word is with us everywhere we go and His fire (Holy Spirit) helps us to grow and live each day to become more like Him.

Now the other fire
that it speaks about is in [h=1]Matthew 25:41New Living Translation (NLT)[/h]41 [FONT=&quot]“Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.[a] ​ This is [/FONT]reserved for those who are NOT of the Lords family. That is those who are followers of the enemy. (Any by the way, even those who think they have not chosen to follow anyone, any religion and even atheists are actually following Satan) for scripture says If your for me (Jesus) your against me. These have a different type of fire. This fire is that of fire and brimstone that is in hell and its an endless flame that will never go out. Your should never dies but you feel this burning torturous flame forever and it speaks of this in different passages throughout.

So purgatory was a solution that man came up with to solve a unanswered question that their minds could not solve due to the fact that they did not allow and know a personal relationship with the Father to take place in their hearts, but instead proceeded to pursue a man made mediator to try to process and consume the sins of man and yet in the process trying to keep the laws without understanding a relationship with the Savior they fell away from the grace and mercy of God and now only act upon laws and not within His walk in love.

I hope this helps .. Be Blessed
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#8
GOD disciplines HIS children and every child is disciplined
it is unpleasant but ir is necessary

even Job was a picture and a prophecy for us to be still and trust in the LORD in all things and that all things will work out for the food

even when what is in front of us appears to be everything but good
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#9
The lord is my Shepherd I shall not esnt

he make th me to lie down in green pastures
he restore th my soul

yeah though I shall walk through the valley of darkness I shall fear no evil
thy rod and thy staff comfort me

In trials we come to an end In ourselves and HAVE TO walk by faith

it’s not say but it is a mature steadfast faith directed in HIM in all things
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#11
Hi

Well Purification means to cleanse and it was performed way back in the old testament as in Numbers 25:13 In this covenant, I give him and his descendants a permanent right to priesthood, for in his zeal for me, his God, he purified the people of Israel, making them right with me.
So in this passage Moses was making a intercession with the Lord upon the peoples behalf and Due to the mercy and humility and act of obedience he showed God purified them to make them clean.

When ever we sin and repent its an act of cleansing and purification that we go through as we have a direct relationship with the Lord and we dont have to go through another person like Moses or a Priest to step upon our behalf as a mediator between us and God. We have Jesus as our own Savior who we can go to personally. That is one of the huge differences between why we know for a fact their is know such thing as purgatory. Purgatory was developed due to the belief that people did not have a personal relationship with the Savior and those who could not get to a Priest or someone of that nature to confess their sins too as a mediator upon their behalf to God to "clean" them would perish. So they came up with this idea and twisted the scriptures into something more feasible that would please their human nature.

As for fire we all will be judged one day once we die. Their will be a judgement for those who are saved and one who are not, well this is addressed below in

Matthew 3:11New Living Translation (NLT)

11 “I baptize with[a] water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am—so much greater that I’m not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.[b

So this means the Holy Spirit. When a person is Born again we have the Holy Spirit living within us and His Word is like fire that burns all that is evil to consume us. Or at least it should if we live right. When we dont that is when we go to Him and repent and ask for forgiveness through grace and mercy and believe through our Savior knowing that His blood was enough to save us through His sacrifice on the cross to cleanse us once and for all.
That is we shouldn't need to ask to keep being saved. Once saved and bought through His blood its a done deal. Now asking for forgiveness is a different story. Its like having children. You have kids and they will always be your kids and they will always be part of your family no matter what. But from time to time they disobey and when they do, they need to correct what they have done. But that does not remove them from the family just because they have not obeyed and its the same with those in Gods family. Once we have received Him as our Savior and are purchased with His blood and know and believed He changed us inside. We are His. Our names are written on the book of life with His blood once we are saved and its instantaneous and nothing can remove it. His Word in red is His promise and His promises are never broken.

His Word is with us everywhere we go and His fire (Holy Spirit) helps us to grow and live each day to become more like Him.

Now the other fire
that it speaks about is in Matthew 25:41New Living Translation (NLT)

41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.[a] ​ This is reserved for those who are NOT of the Lords family. That is those who are followers of the enemy. (Any by the way, even those who think they have not chosen to follow anyone, any religion and even atheists are actually following Satan) for scripture says If your for me (Jesus) your against me. These have a different type of fire. This fire is that of fire and brimstone that is in hell and its an endless flame that will never go out. Your should never dies but you feel this burning torturous flame forever and it speaks of this in different passages throughout.

So purgatory was a solution that man came up with to solve a unanswered question that their minds could not solve due to the fact that they did not allow and know a personal relationship with the Father to take place in their hearts, but instead proceeded to pursue a man made mediator to try to process and consume the sins of man and yet in the process trying to keep the laws without understanding a relationship with the Savior they fell away from the grace and mercy of God and now only act upon laws and not within His walk in love.

I hope this helps .. Be Blessed
GOD disciplines HIS children now so that we will not be condemned with the rest of the world

when HE convicts us we are to confess our sins and HE is faithful and just to purify us of all unrighteousness
everyone who has their HOPE IN HIM purifies thenselves
even as HE is pure

letters of John
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#12
I need to be clear

these sufferings and trials DO NOT come from GOD

But we are told “in this world we will have trouble”

And we will

our work is to be still, not go out from HIM but to REMAIN IN HIM and trust that HE is working all things out for the good
what Satan intends for evil, GOD will work out for the good

peter was even told that Satan wanted to sift him like wheat
if GOD allows it (just as in the case of Job)

It isn’t because GOD doesn’t know HIS servant
its because HE does
 
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O

OtherWay210

Guest
#13
Hi Rsanchezhopes :


Im not familiar with the "different" ideas denominations have about that.


But The Bible does teach something to this effect.
Its better to stick with how the Bible presents that as a whole.
Rather than what denominations teach in part.
In order to fill missing Bible or to adhere to their denominations teaching ;
people have a bad tendency to interject a thought, or idea ; that is Not expressed in the Bible . "


For starters here :
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;



When anyone dies, they go to heaven. You can call it paradise .
People who overcome, are on the right side of the gulf ( divide ) and the bad are on the wrong side.

They are alive, and that is not the lake of fire. The lake of fire only happens at the very end, of The Lords Day .


So the "bad" aka spiritually dead ; wait, until that time to be judged .


So the reality is God being the God of the Living, not the dead. No one not even Satan has died yet. No ones been to hell.

The hell the rich man was in, was of his own making. You have to look up the greek to understand that. Because the illustration Christ painted a lot of people dont get right away.




 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#14
So the Prison Peter is referring to, is the divide Christ taught about . After His death, Christ brought many of those people across the divide to the side of victory, through belief in Him. The prison is the state of their soul. Not an physical prison. The hell they are in, is of their own making. Again, you have to study the Greek to understand that.

You'll have to actually Read the Bible yourself so you can recall what it teaches. Not what people tell you.
 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#15
Hi Rsanchezhopes :


Im not familiar with the "different" ideas denominations have about that.


But The Bible does teach something to this effect.
Its better to stick with how the Bible presents that as a whole.
Rather than what denominations teach in part.
In order to fill missing Bible or to adhere to their denominations teaching ;
people have a bad tendency to interject a thought, or idea ; that is Not expressed in the Bible . "


For starters here :
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;



When anyone dies, they go to heaven. You can call it paradise .
People who overcome, are on the right side of the gulf ( divide ) and the bad are on the wrong side.

They are alive, and that is not the lake of fire. The lake of fire only happens at the very end, of The Lords Day .


So the "bad" aka spiritually dead ; wait, until that time to be judged .


So the reality is God being the God of the Living, not the dead. No one not even Satan has died yet. No ones been to hell.

The hell the rich man was in, was of his own making. You have to look up the greek to understand that. Because the illustration Christ painted a lot of people dont get right away.




You mean no man (physically dead) has suffered the second death yet which is spiritual

However all men will die once
But what of living men now

They will physically die but how can they avoid the second death?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#16
Hi Rsanchezhopes :


Im not familiar with the "different" ideas denominations have about that.


But The Bible does teach something to this effect.
Its better to stick with how the Bible presents that as a whole.
Rather than what denominations teach in part.
In order to fill missing Bible or to adhere to their denominations teaching ;
people have a bad tendency to interject a thought, or idea ; that is Not expressed in the Bible . "


For starters here :
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;



When anyone dies, they go to heaven. You can call it paradise .
People who overcome, are on the right side of the gulf ( divide ) and the bad are on the wrong side.

They are alive, and that is not the lake of fire. The lake of fire only happens at the very end, of The Lords Day .


So the "bad" aka spiritually dead ; wait, until that time to be judged .


So the reality is God being the God of the Living, not the dead. No one not even Satan has died yet. No ones been to hell.

The hell the rich man was in, was of his own making. You have to look up the greek to understand that. Because the illustration Christ painted a lot of people dont get right away.




when anyone dies they go to heaven?
 

Dotann

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2012
146
6
0
#17
How can one purify them self? Am i my own intercessor? I know i cant intercede for myself for to do this i throw out Gods Grace and Mercy and all that He has done for me disqualifying His blood that paid for my sins when i was saved. I am not worthy enough to clean myself. Only Jesus can clean me.

I can plead to my Father but can only go to Him THROUGH Jesus AND on His behalf, for for scripture says Jesus is the only way. Its certainly not about me,. Only about Jesus..

I agree that God disciplines His children now which is what i talked about earlier when i spoke about obedience and living right. And when we dont we ask for forgiveness and repent and Jesus in love grace and mercy always forgives us. But i know i certainly cannot ask purify myself.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#18
Hi Rsanchezhopes :


Im not familiar with the "different" ideas denominations have about that.


But The Bible does teach something to this effect.
Its better to stick with how the Bible presents that as a whole.
Rather than what denominations teach in part.
In order to fill missing Bible or to adhere to their denominations teaching ;
people have a bad tendency to interject a thought, or idea ; that is Not expressed in the Bible . "


For starters here :
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;



When anyone dies, they go to heaven. You can call it paradise .
People who overcome, are on the right side of the gulf ( divide ) and the bad are on the wrong side.

They are alive, and that is not the lake of fire. The lake of fire only happens at the very end, of The Lords Day .


So the "bad" aka spiritually dead ; wait, until that time to be judged .


So the reality is God being the God of the Living, not the dead. No one not even Satan has died yet. No ones been to hell.

The hell the rich man was in, was of his own making. You have to look up the greek to understand that. Because the illustration Christ painted a lot of people dont get right away.




in light of your above post,
Please explain revelation 20:13
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#19
Hi: miknik5

I'm not going to have a long protracted back and forth in this forum .
I didn't ask the question. If we all start having our own personal back and forth, it serves no help to the original poster.
if you have scripture that helps answer the question please consider sharing that.

I will post more scripture later, or maybe ill post some more now .
ill offer more verses in a moment . OR i will post a study video or something later in the forum .

But im not going to get into a dialog with everyone . Serves no purpose .

IF that is even your intention, feel free to inbox me, or invite me to a chat.
 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#20
Hi Rsanchezhopes :


Im not familiar with the "different" ideas denominations have about that.


But The Bible does teach something to this effect.
Its better to stick with how the Bible presents that as a whole.
Rather than what denominations teach in part.
In order to fill missing Bible or to adhere to their denominations teaching ;


people have a bad tendency to interject a thought, or idea ; that is Not expressed in the Bible . "


For starters here :
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;



When anyone dies, they go to heaven.


miknik said:
john 8:21 contradicts your interjection

You can call it paradise .
People who overcome, are on the right side of the gulf ( divide ) and the bad are on the wrong side.

They are alive, and that is not the lake of fire. The lake of fire only happens at the very end, of The Lords Day .


So the "bad" aka spiritually dead ; wait, until that time to be judged .


So the reality is God being the God of the Living, not the dead. No one not even Satan has died yet.

No ones been to hell.
miknik said:
revelation 20:13 contradicts your interjection
The hell the rich man was in, was of his own making. You have to look up the greek to understand that. Because the illustration Christ painted a lot of people dont get right away.




[/QUOTE]
I highlighted your two above statements and I supply scripture which contradicts your interjections

john 8:21
revrlation 20:13


please explain your input, interjection, idea which contradicts GOD’s WORD

you don’t have to sctialky


john 8:21 and revelation 20:13 clearly show that you offered what is in contradiction to GOD’s WORD
 
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