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Thread: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    Jesus followed the law.

    until the baptism of John. in his ministry Jesus taught contrary to the Mosaic Law, He followed the ten commandments the covenant Law, not the mosaic Law, at least not during His ministry. two different doctrines, the law of moses which is for this purpose

    deueronomy 31:26 " Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. <<


    the scripture says Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, it doesnt say He obeyed the mosaic Law, he clearly did not obey it Here is One example

    john 8 "Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?( leviticus 20) 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.<<( deuteronomy 31: 26) But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground,<<( exodus 31:18) as though he heard them not.


    So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.


    8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. <<( exodus 34:1)



    9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: <( the effect of the Light ) and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."


    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true." <<< another accusation of the law of moses.

    Here is Jesus teaching contrary to the law.

    matthew 5 "
    Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


    Leviticus 24 " And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death. 18And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast. 19And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again. 21And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death. 22Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. 23And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses."


    this was so for adulterers also leviticus 20

    instead of this eye for an eye doctrine of Moses, Jesus teaches forgiveness, turning the other cheek, blessing those who curse you, forgive and do not take vengeance...the law says take equal retribution.


    they are two different things, before Jesus was annointed and began preaching the gospel, he surely followed the laws righteousness, when He was annointed He was giving the law, not following it. Moses mediated the law, Jesus the Gospel 2 contrary doctrines One for those under sentance of death, and one for those given eternal life

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    as much as it is contrary to the law of moses placed beside the ark as a witness against the sinners who broke the covenant Law of God within the ark, Jesus ministry upholds that same covenant Law, inside the ark, the commandments. Only Jesus teaches us to see and Hear them in truth and Light.

    thou shalt not Kill, is shown in the spirit, as seeds of hate and grudge and unforgiveness that we Keep in our Heart. Jesus is telling us How to Keep the commandments, God spoke them Himself on the Mount.

    Have no other Gods before Me, is to follow the way and the truth and the Life.

    thou shalt not steal from others has become rid your heart of greed and lust for possessions and mammon, and give to the needy among you as you are able to according to your provison.

    in other words if you are the Kind of person who is looking to give to others when you are able, you wont be the kind of person who steals from others so that commandment will be Kept through the spiritual Knowledge of Jesus Christ. Before Jesus a sinner, was not able to grasp that the sinful actions were only the fruit, and that sin was actually within man as a corruption and deception of our minds, part of our nature.

    so thou shalt not Lie" a liar will never be able to fu;fill that commandment by thier nature. thou shalt not Kill, a man who carries around the spirit of hate, anger, aggression, grudges, He has a motivation to do violence and eventually harm and murder living in Him, that spirit of hate, unforgiveness, grudge, thise things fester in our minds and Hearts and Lead to thinking different and actions result from that.

    yet, if we forgive quickly when we pray, and do our best to walk in reconciliation to all men, bearing no grudges, and if we do not covet people or money, we really have no motivation to kill. dso in this way, Jesus is teaching us How to Keep the commandments, but it isnt through the Ones written on stone those reveal sin, the true Word of God, gives spirit and Life to the believer. he is teaching us the understanding that the problem lies in our Heart, it is deceived and led astray of sin.

    He teaches us to internally get control of the things we allow in our thoughts and hearts and desires, and the actions will never be the wrong ones . instead of having our deceived minds trying to keep laws showing us sin, we learn the truth, which is you can not kill your Whole Life, but if you Hate and do harm and not good to other people, God sees that just as clearly as our actions.

    cleansing is accomplished through the gospel through Our Faith in Jesus and belief in His Word. those words are the answer tp the issue the law reveals to us. which is sin living within ourselves, that wars against us even when we want to do what we Know is right all the time, sometimes we choose to do the things we Know are wrong. we can make a commitment to laws but we are not perfect like the law requires. the law wasnt the issue, it came to show us the issue, the Gospel is meant to solve the issue to teach us the ministry of the inward Man, the heart where the real battle happens within us. between Good and evil. evil in us, condemned us by the Law, Jesus saves us by removing the evil and filling us with the good.
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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotime View Post
    I really don't get how people don't pick up on that point. Love has always fulfilled the law.

    The problem with the nation of Israel was they did not love and they did not love because they did not trust. Thus they looked at the law as a list of performance merits and failed. (I speak in general, of course many individuals did love and follow God).

    You can't say you love God and man and not keep the law. Its simply not possible. when we don't keep the law we are simply not loving. We in fact can't love like that without the Love of God being shed in our hearts.

    This is why the Good news is the POWER of God. Its transforming. When someone says they can't keep the commandments after coming to Jesus I see someone who has a powerless and useless Gospel.
    if someone says they cant follow any commandment after coming to Jesus they are unappreciative, ungreatful
    and a self centered fool

    they need to wake up and remember the price that was paid for them. Because of Jesus there is NO condemnation for them.

    For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.Romans 8:3
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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdyloves View Post
    if someone says they cant follow any commandment after coming to Jesus they are unappreciative, ungreatful
    and a self centered fool

    they need to wake up and remember the price that was paid for them. Because of Jesus there is NO condemnation for them.

    For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.Romans 8:3

    its just a lack of faith because the gog rewuires people to believe Jesus word isnt for them, only pauls.

    if someone says they cant follow any commandment after coming to Jesus <<<


    after Jesus gave His testimony, the ten commandments should become something that doesnt greive us to keep. this is exactly where the anti Jesus gospel.gospel leads people. its clever because its ex-plaination is, that well what Jesus said before the cross isnt the gospel meant for you, its all true of course, but that was for them and only the word grace is for you.

    truthfully paul teaches no differently from Jesus, he doesnt teach a gospel that teaches us not to obey Jesus, or that we simply cant, His doctrine is all about " you are a new creation, created in christ to do the good works God prepared for you"

    is it really impossible to not look at a woman with Lust in our heart/ nope because i overcame that very thing Once a Heart lead by Lust, now sees in purity because of Jesus teachings and taking Him seriously rather than explaining why, He didnt really say what He said, by telling people its not meant for you, and then pluck out of context scriptures that are not actually the point paul is making, and leaving out the vast amounts of pauls teaching about eternal Judgement , about our accountability to the gospel, about out deeds being Judged By Jesus because we do Believe.


    people teach the bible as if it is our excuse to live as we want and tell everyone thats salvation jesus died because we were sinners the end. that omits the majority vast majority of the new testament and nothing makes sense Kind of Like reading a sentance randomly on 20 pages of a 2000 page novel, and saying Heres the story

    "jimmy got shot, Karen said hello to tom" " John looked intently at carl" and the bus was full that evening" He dove in the water Hoping He wouldnt drown" and they all Lived happily ever after" tuesday she said, i have that appointment teusday" " and the orange juice became stale" they hunkered down under the big tree in the storm" " john just Knew if erica hadnt said that, everything would be okay" and the dogs came charging at them" as she approached the pew in her church, she was overcome with emotion and knelt" the mailman looked intently at the ups driver, and the air was thick with rivalry" ......


    its all true that those sentances are in the novel, no one can argue........but really thats not a good way to hear the message because it was put in a particular order to say something, when you pull the verses from context you jumble up the story. the apostles actually were all saying things they give awesom explainations in thier letters......but like the gospel we pluck a verse and make our arguments rather than accepting theirs.

    its a great thing God sent a Savior and Lord and teacher and shepherd and One we can trust for the way, truth and Life, One we have no reason to fear or try to alter. One who offers salvation to those who will simply believe in the One God sent to teach and explain everything so no one then needs a great multiti=ude of scholars, just to trust Jesus and accpet His words that explain it all.


    theres no Gospel thats different pauls makes no sense, without the four Gospels. He would just be maiking up fables if Jesus Hadnt preached the Gospel first.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    " the Gospel is meant to solve the issue to teach us the ministry of the inward Man, the heart where the real battle happens within us. between Good and evil. evil in us, condemned us by the Law, Jesus saves us by removing the evil and filling us with the good."


    we Know the law, forbids eating certain meats, the messiah Jesus The One God sent with His truth said


    Mark 7 " And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: 15There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 16If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
    17
    And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. 18And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? ( again opposed to the law which says certain meats make you unclean)

    20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

    that is the spiritual things we need to never ever reject. because then when paul says this you actually understand okay paul is preaching the same gospel the same thing Jesus is

    Galatians 5 " For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    they are teaching the same things throughout. it doesnt matter if peter preached to a gentile, Jesus, paul, if they preached the Gospel set forth by Jesus Christ, and the person accepted His Gospel, the Only One full of Grace and truth,they will receive the things promised if they believe the things He said. thats faith but the thing is we cant ignore the things we dont agree with we have to accept them and let them guide our thinking.





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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    Commandments don't really have anything to do with Loving God.

    The commandments were to show YOU that YOU can't perform them. YOU need help. There is no righteousness or holiness that you can display to God. You can't be perfect like God is perfect. But He commands you to be like Him through the 10 commandments.

    Loving God is turning from your silly carnal understanding of His Spiritual Law that you think can be fulfilled by your flesh and strength, and instead turn to the Lord Jesus Christ and receive Righteousness and Rest as His Gift.

    " Commandments don't really have anything to do with Loving God.<<<<<<


    1 john 5 " By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. "


    its the commandments, and the testmony of Jesus, not moses, but Jesus and the commandments. because thats the covenant Law, and thats the spirit to Keep it. i would advise people to get away from the paul only "gospel" its leaving people in shadows Like peter warns in the Bible. a paul only believer though Might reconsider the commandments having nothing to do with it

    romans 13 "
    For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment,it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."


    id say that paul is making clear that the saying Love thy neingbor, in no way replaces the commandments, but summarizes them briefly, if you are commiting adultery....one is not loving thier spouse. we can say we are but its false. if we are lying to someone, we arent Loving them, if we are coveting someones possessions or wife, we are not loving them, if we bear grudges, we are not Lovung them.


    actually its more like, we have to see that the commandments arent an oppressive thing that " are meant to make us think we cant possibly not kill, steal, lie, cheat, bear false witness ect....


    thats not at all what thier purpose is. they are showing us sins fruit, adultery is a sinful fruit, murder, theft, lies, false witness...those are evil fruit, sinful deeds works of the flesh in constant opposition to righteousness.

    you cant say you love if you are breaking those however. even if you keep them, and it is a task and chore and greivance for you to keep them, yu still arent Loving. if you dont Lie to a man, yet you see Him in need and do nothing to help Him, thats not Love to God.

    the commandments, will be kept by following Jesus, the mosaic Law will not be kept if a person follows Jesus word. the ten commandments, will. and we dont need the stone commandments we have the Law written on us.







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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdyloves View Post
    if someone says they cant follow any commandment after coming to Jesus they are unappreciative, ungreatful
    and a self centered fool

    they need to wake up and remember the price that was paid for them. Because of Jesus there is NO condemnation for them.

    For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.Romans 8:3
    They might say that GOD gets ALL the credit and I can't do anything In my own strength but where I am weak HE Is strong.JESUS Is the vine and we are the branches that are receiving sustenance from the vine displaying the spiritual fruit.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Those that are trying to keep the Ten Commandments don’t realize that In trying to keep the Ten Commandments they have fallen from grace meaning you have fallen Into the category of work Is merited ,the person trying to keep the law will have to merit their right standing to GOD In their own strength and all under law will come short of the glory of GOD.
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    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    If you love your neighbor, you then do not need to try to follow any of the commandments, because the law is in your heart and you will naturally do them.
    If on the other hand, you do not love, you will then be unable to complete the commandments, because love is not in your heart, and the law is contrary to your nature.
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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamah View Post
    Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”



    John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
    Loving God is a commandment.

    But love can't be commanded, it just doesn't work that way.





    1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
    1 John 5:1-4
    1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
    4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.




    Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"
    This one verse opposes what you were trying to make your other verses say. But you always have to keep in mind that the bible doesn't contradict itself. Sometimes your understanding of the bible contradicts itself.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    Those that are trying to keep the Ten Commandments don’t realize that In trying to keep the Ten Commandments they have fallen from grace meaning you have fallen Into the category of work Is merited ,the person trying to keep the law will have to merit their right standing to GOD In their own strength and all under law will come short of the glory of GOD.

    you are not accounting for the power of God to change the person from one who "is trying to keep contrary Laws" to someone who is not greived in keeping the commandments. God will never even suggest that His people not bother keeping His commandments thats not what God does. if anyone believes they have received the Holy spirit...Gods commandments will no longer make them afraid to walk upright before God.

    its about obeying Jesus Christ, that keeps the commandments. you cant on one hand live breakeing them and also say " im not sinning" the commandments are to be kept in the testimony of Jesus Christ and the apostles. to explain to people why the commandments are irrelevant is not a good doctrine. Gods children will walk n them gratefully. and it won be a big deal for us to do so. the Holy spirit actually means alot more for us than people say. if it doesnt make us think Lying is not acceptable, if it doesnt turn us against Lust and adultery fundamentally, if it doesnt leave us focused on the truth and reality of One God, ..if it doesnt bring us in line with the morality of the ten commandments its because the people arent Hearing the Gospel Jesus preached and instead are hearing " grace, now your saved...the end" gravce is good, what it is not is the great ommiter of Gods Word.
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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"


    Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”


    Mat 15:24, “And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’yl.”

    Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”



    Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."


    Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”


    Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."



    Last edited by Shamah; 1 Week Ago at 03:58 PM.
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    Hiz Temp acct.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    Those that are trying to keep the Ten Commandments don’t realize that In trying to keep the Ten Commandments they have fallen from grace meaning you have fallen Into the category of work Is merited ,the person trying to keep the law will have to merit their right standing to GOD In their own strength and all under law will come short of the glory of GOD.
    Those that are trying to keep the Ten Commandments don’t realize that In trying to keep the Ten Commandments they have fallen from grace meaning you have fallen Into the category of work<<<<

    that is ridiculous. and why people have to distinguish between the Mosaic Law which is where the ordinances, works, condemnation all are, the Ones who keep the commandments, are those who Love according to God. simple i cant Love and steal from you at the same time, i have to repent of One and do the other, i cant Love you and also bear a false witness against you, I cant Love you and also plot to kill you at the same time, I cant Love my wife and also commit adultery,


    Love will keep the commandments, and when a person is tempted, to sin, Love will still keep the commandments, God will never, Not endorse His words, the ten commandments were spoken to the people By God. gotta keeop the commandments, to teach things like how keeping the commandmnts really is a fiutile efort to teach people they camt, is to ignore the gospels meessage and the empowerment of the Holy Ghost.

    were made in Christ to do the good things expected of us. not to ignore Gods Word.
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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    Loving God is a commandment.

    But love can't be commanded, it just doesn't work that way.






    1 John 5:1-4
    1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
    4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.






    This one verse opposes what you were trying to make your other verses say. But you always have to keep in mind that the bible doesn't contradict itself. Sometimes your understanding of the bible contradicts itself.
    By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.<< ( Love one another)

    3
    For this is the love of God, >>>that
    we keep >>>his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."



    until we learn to Love Gods instructions were just going in a circle regarding Love

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושעMessiah."


    Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"
    followjesus likes this.
    Hiz Temp acct.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by louis View Post
    If you love your neighbor, you then do not need to try to follow any of the commandments, because the law is in your heart and you will naturally do them.
    If on the other hand, you do not love, you will then be unable to complete the commandments, because love is not in your heart, and the law is contrary to your nature.
    and if you are breaking the commandments that tells you you need to repent and follow the gospel that brings those true Las into us. the commandment is " do not kill" the way to come to obedience in this is to follow Jesus doctrine teaching us to not let any bitternes remain in us for another, to not have an eye on our neighbors goods and possessions, to not allow hate to rest in us, to not bear Grudges ect...because thats what leads to the breaking of the commandment.

    the commandment is " thou shalt not commit adultery" the way to come to obedience of that, is to follow Jesus doctrine and Learn to stop our lustful thoughts towards others people because thats what leads us to break the commandment.

    the commandment is do not Lie" the ay to come into obedience to that commandments is to believe the truth and follow the truth that teaches us that evil thoughts dwelling on untrue things, plotting gossip ect those things are whar fuels breaking the commandment,..... Jesus teaches us not how to keep moses Law, but How to keep Gods commandments from the heart. we have to hear and accept the gospel, because that is the new heart God promised us.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    you are not accounting for the power of God to change the person from one who "is trying to keep contrary Laws" to someone who is not greived in keeping the commandments. God will never even suggest that His people not bother keeping His commandments thats not what God does. if anyone believes they have received the Holy spirit...Gods commandments will no longer make them afraid to walk upright before God.

    its about obeying Jesus Christ, that keeps the commandments. you cant on one hand live breakeing them and also say " im not sinning" the commandments are to be kept in the testimony of Jesus Christ and the apostles. to explain to people why the commandments are irrelevant is not a good doctrine. Gods children will walk n them gratefully. and it won be a big deal for us to do so. the Holy spirit actually means alot more for us than people say. if it doesnt make us think Lying is not acceptable, if it doesnt turn us against Lust and adultery fundamentally, if it doesnt leave us focused on the truth and reality of One God, ..if it doesnt bring us in line with the morality of the ten commandments its because the people arent Hearing the Gospel Jesus preached and instead are hearing " grace, now your saved...the end" gravce is good, what it is not is the great ommiter of Gods Word.
    you are not accounting for the power of God to change the person from one who "is trying to keep contrary Laws" to someone
    Thats grace and THEN the person seeks to purify themselves even as they are pure,we love because GOD FIRST loved us.Remember,JESUS the vine,we,the branches receiving sustanance from the vine.

    Read my signiture and hopefully you will get the point.


    We are GOD’s workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works that was before ordained that we should walk in them.

    its about obeying Jesus Christ, that keeps the commandments.
    Yes,obedience to faith,meaning say yes.Choose this day whom you will serve,everyone deep down knows that there Is a GOD,the creation Itself declares It.

    Some People are putting too much emphasis on the flesh and IMO,people that are trying to keep the law are putting an unnecessary burden upon themselves and are looking at things IE.I’m not like that person over there,I don’t sin the way they do,thats called comparing themselves according to their traditions and deciding who Is living the holiest but no matter how holy that person lives,they won’t be acceptable to GOD If they are not perfect and no one besides JESUS Is perfect.

    Give GOD ALL the credit.
    amen.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    until the baptism of John. in his ministry Jesus taught contrary to the Mosaic Law, He followed the ten commandments the covenant Law, not the mosaic Law, at least not during His ministry. two different doctrines, the law of moses which is for this purpose
    deueronomy 31:26 " Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. <<

    the scripture says Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, it doesnt say He obeyed the mosaic Law, he clearly did not obey it Here is One example


    if He disobeyed any law He in fact did not fulfill the law. doesnt matter mosaic or any other, Jesus and the 12 didnt cherry pick the scriptures for only what they wanted to hear, thats what we do today to make our doctrines work.

    john 8 "Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?( leviticus 20) 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.<<( deuteronomy 31: 26) But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground,<<( exodus 31:18) as though he heard them not.
    So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
    8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. <<( exodus 34:1)

    9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: <( the effect of the Light ) and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
    he broke no law, He did not commit adultery and He could not put her to death for committing adultery as all the people left, there must be 2 or 3 witnesses for the death sentence to be carried out.

    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true." <<< another accusation of the law of moses.

    Here is Jesus teaching contrary to the law.

    matthew 5 "
    Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    Leviticus 24 " And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death. 18And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast. 19And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again. 21And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death. 22Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. 23And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses."


    this was so for adulterers also leviticus 20

    instead of this eye for an eye doctrine of Moses, Jesus teaches forgiveness, turning the other cheek, blessing those who curse you, forgive and do not take vengeance...the law says take equal retribution.


    they are two different things, before Jesus was annointed and began preaching the gospel, he surely followed the laws righteousness, when He was annointed He was giving the law, not following it. Moses mediated the law, Jesus the Gospel 2 contrary doctrines One for those under sentance of death, and one for those given eternal life
    turn the other cheek has nothing to do with not punishing murderers. when Jesus uses "you have heard it said" He is referring to oral tradition, "is it not written" refers to the law. eye for an eye is written but the traditions had people twisting the law to justify revenge.
    and no where in these passages does Jesus say He is changing anything.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    Thats grace and THEN the person seeks to purify themselves even as they are pure,we love because GOD FIRST loved us.Remember,JESUS the vine,we,the branches receiving sustanance from the vine.

    Read my signiture and hopefully you will get the point.


    We are GOD’s workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works that was before ordained that we should walk in them.



    Yes,obedience to faith,meaning say yes.Choose this day whom you will serve,everyone deep down knows that there Is a GOD,the creation Itself declares It.

    Some People are putting too much emphasis on the flesh and IMO,people that are trying to keep the law are putting an unnecessary burden upon themselves and are looking at things IE.I’m not like that person over there,I don’t sin the way they do,thats called comparing themselves according to their traditions and deciding who Is living the holiest but no matter how holy that person lives,they won’t be acceptable to GOD If they are not perfect and no one besides JESUS Is perfect.

    Give GOD ALL the credit.
    amen.
    thats the point though, were made new, in order to keep the commandments. the " flesh" doesnt mean our flesh and vlood bodies as if they are evil. the " flesh" is the nature of adam in us, the sinful nature that is both of good and evil. to be too involved in the flesh, would be to ignore continue following sin as its servant rather than Jesus. Grace doesnt tell all end all, it actually empowers the person to do the things they need to do, its not " Christ did it all so now i dont need to make effort to obey Him" it is " I can do all things through Jesus Christ in Me" we have to work agaonst omitting anything because its meant to work together , thats what sanctifies us when Like the adulterer we see " Neither do I condemn you...look i suffered and died for you, ....Now i tell you , go and repent and learn and follow the gospel."


    Just as paul says of His teachings, they arent meant to free us from obedience to Gods commandments, but meant to bring us into obedience to Jesus Christ because that fulfills the Law. we have eternal Life, according to the covenant Jesus spoke forth. the promises He made have to first be accepted By His Word. He says " my teachings, My commans , My Words...are the Words of God above all, because I am the promised One, the One moses and all the prophets said would come. Listen to me i came from His presence to teach you, i am promising you to send the Holy Ghost to you, to continue reminding you of the things I have spoken into the world, I command you all to go forth and teach the world the same Gospel of th Kingdom I taught to you, teach them to accept my words....


    this is our only way, to truly keep the covenant Law, the commandments. Jesus spiritual inner ministry, doesnt say " our actions physically no longer matter" He is offering the solution to our sinful nature. to hear what He is saying, Because it is the word of Life God promised to send that will circumcize the flesh from our " Heart" nd fill us with His spirit. the spirit is in the doctrine of Jesus thats the source of every promise the apostles preach and speak of. I think i have alot of agreement with you. its the rreason I commented im a bit of a rambler at times n oi offense meant at all nor was it meant to argue or disagree with you, just talking about what you had said from a different aspect ....


    the Gospel, is meant to make us have a nature that sees Like Jesus sees things, rather than a perspective of a sinner. a perpective of truth, that Gods will is so good we cant imagine for us, that His word is Meant to give us eternal Life, that it really isnt meant to condemn us for our sin, but to teach us the truth that will set us free from the problem in us.....the problem satan planted in mans nature with fallacy, Jesus repairs with truth. we fell By satans word in eden, and we are saved By Jesus word in the Gospel

    the Law, is showing us the result of sin in mans nature and that result is death, the prophets then announce a mysterious messiah that will come and die for the peoples sins, and raise to Life again, and God will give Him an everlasting Kingdom and all nations will come into obedience to Him. the messiah would be for Jew and also for all people of the earth to save them offering the sure mercies of david to all people who will repent and accept Him.

    His doctrine, is perfect . Like the men who brought the Law to Jesus condemning the adulterer, His word will always work in the conscience , to lead us in the right ways. His words really are spirit. " turn the other cheek" can apply to any situation not only someone striking a person, but the spirit of it is " do not repay evil for evil, but rather, do good and let God repay the evil. forgive and let God deal woith the wrong that was done to us , give to others when we are able and they need help, help them in any ways God has given us strength.

    if we are truly Loving Each other, as Jesus Has taught us in the gospel. the commandments are kept and therefore Not something we ever need to see. but that is for a time when we can truly believe we are perfectly Loving others. when we do wrong we need to remember the commandments and also not Lose sight of Gods mercy. those work together not to condemn us, but to teach and give us forebearance as we grow and learn. even if we never reach a level of great maturity, if we are following at any stage even if were struggling. were as safe as can Be, it is when we take only the promises and erase His instructions that we struggle because without an accurate gps, its hard to find a becon in the depths of an ocean. especially when many are giving directions that will lead to niagra falls rather than dry land.


    we dont have to worry anymore pr fear Gods commandments Like those at horeb, they arent for our condemnation, they are Our moral Guide to correct us when we do wrong. Jesus is Our teacher and advocate, our strength and Our rock Our Lord and Our savior, as well as the sacrifice of atonement through His Blood.

    God bless

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    [COLOR=#001320][FONT=Arimo]

    if He disobeyed any law He in fact did not fulfill the law. doesnt matter mosaic or any other, Jesus and the 12 didnt cherry pick the scriptures for only what they wanted to hear, thats what we do today to make our doctrines work.


    he broke no law, He did not commit adultery and He could not put her to death for committing adultery as all the people left, there must be 2 or 3 witnesses for the death sentence to be carried out.



    turn the other cheek has nothing to do with not punishing murderers. when Jesus uses "you have heard it said" He is referring to oral tradition, "is it not written" refers to the law. eye for an eye is written but the traditions had people twisting the law to justify revenge.
    and no where in these passages does Jesus say He is changing anything.
    turn the other cheek has nothing to do with not punishing murderers. when Jesus uses "you have heard it said" He is referring to oral tradition, "is it not written" refers to the law. eye for an eye is written but the traditions had people twisting the law to justify revenge.
    and no where in these passages does Jesus say He is changing anything.


    i think possibly you may not grasp that the Law of moses, is written in the Bible, and was read to isreals people by the priests of the levites?

    we dont have to argue this point friend the pharisees were absolutely correct, when they brought the guilty adulterer and said " Moses commanded in the law that we stone Here "...what say you Jesus?

    if you arenbt aware what the Mosaic Law is, read the books of exodus, numbers, leviticus, and deuteronomy. you will find that Moses commanded not only adulterers stoned such as here in Leviticus 20 as i left in the comment.

    And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. <


    they would have had to stone her, and then go get the man and stone Him to death. in order to keep the mosaic Law. this is not an opinion lol the law is written, and the isrealites gathered to Hear it read aloud by the priests every seven Years. its the kind of thing, you have to actually study the Law, to see though. for Jesus to have kept the MOSAIC Law He would have had to say. yes you are right stone her, it is written, the adulterers must be put to death." thats really not a debate. read the Mosaic Law and then the Gospel and then tell; me that they are not different entirely. but seperate when God speaks at Horeb, and what Moses writes after that.

    Heres a few other things that demand the people witness against, Judge and condem,n thier fellow people when they transgress.

    Leviticus 20:9 " For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall beupon him."

    Jesus wouldnt have stoned them either.

    exodus 21 " He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death....
    15
    And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. ( to strike a parent)

    16
    And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

    17
    And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death."

    "
    heres an example of the equal restitution law

    If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."


    its actually a recurring them, do unto others as they have done to you <<< thats the golden rule of the Law.

    do unto others as You would have them do unto you
    ( even when they do you wrong)<<<< thats the golden rule of the gospel.


    its really not a mystery we can Just read the law that says the adulterer is commanded to be put to death by the people. its just written, and then you can read what Jesus did when that law was briught to Him. He over ruled it because He is by far Greater than anyone who came before or after Him, what Jesus says...goes because Of who He is. we can also understand because the prophets were saying all along " I am going to do a new thing, not according to the covenant I made at horeb, but i will forgive thier sins....is it then a shock when the messiah Comes preaching a Law that forgives rather than condemns?

    a law that says " forgive the wrongdoer" as opposed to " stone them to death outside the camp"

    a law that says " when you marry, its a lifetime commitment in Gods eyes and there is only 1 reason for divorce. opposed to " if you are not Happy, write a certificate of divorce, and then you are both free to remarry.

    a law that says " I forgive you for all yuve done Wrong, now go and forgive others when they sin against you. rather than " when you have sinned a sin that is not a death penalty, take a spotless 1 year old goat, to the priest and the priest is to slay it and sprinkle its blood according to the details of the Law, He will place your sin by His hand, onto a scapegoat, the scapegoat will then carry your sin away onto the desert alone......and then I will forgive your sin.


    a Law that says " when you see someone in need, it doesnt matter if its a sabbath, help them even if yu have to work hard to do it. opposed to " if anyone carries firewood on the sabbath or gathers food on a sabbath they must be cut off from all the people."

    its Just clearly different, Better by Far that the Mosaic Law. Jesus wouldnt have had to follow any Laws He was following Gods Word. the law is for transgressors.

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