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Thread: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

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    Default romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    romans 7 " Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.




    7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. << not the problem >>> the problem 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
    ( so whats he mean?)


    9For I was alive without the law once: ( genesis 1-2) but when the commandment came, ( genesis 2:17 ) sin revived, and I died. ( genesis 3 ) 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, ( genseis 2:17) I found to be unto death.( genesis 3:19-24) 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, (genesis 3:1-6)and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good;( the law v12) that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

    so....whats he saying? he really makes it plain all hes been explaining..... this is what happened to man because of the fruit of good and evil


    14For we know that the law is spiritual: >>but I am carnal, sold under sin. <<

    15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.


    16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. <<< 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.<<<

    pauls conclusion and resulting perilous call and thanks to God


    21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.( the knowledge of good and evil is in man now it causes a conflict adam "sold us" into this nature in eden) 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


    24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. "...

    this is why we have to accept romans 6-8, and the many teachings about the law. and the gospel. if a sinner tries to come to God through the law, they will die, if they come to Jesus they will Live. 8 gives us the answer of course. 6 sets up ch 7, but there is much Here to really consider.

    my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; ...5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, ( john 6:63) and not in the oldness of the letter. ..that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


    2 corinthians 3 " 6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. ( john 6:63, john 6:68)

    7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; ( exodus 34) which glory was to be done away:( the glory of moses face faded after he came out from Gods presence) 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? ( john 3:34) 9For if the ministration o f condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


    12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

    17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. ( john 8:31-35)18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."


    Moses or Jesus matters. one is mortal and ends in death, One is eternal and gives Life. they are not the same covenant.


    God bless you !



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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Agreed- we cannot follow both Christ and Moses at the same time- that would be committing spiritual adultery. The law (not God’s law but the physical way of obeying it under Moses) is nailed to the cross forevermore amen.
    Jimbone, 20, followjesus and 1 others like this.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    The law remains unchanged. It's necessity is to demonstrate to man his individual accountability to God.

    The cross satisfied the penalty of the law and made possible for man to have atonement for his sin.

    Gods grace imputes the righteousness of Christ through grace to the undeserving sinner. Placing on the sinless Christ all our sin which is then fully paid by the death of the Savior.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    dead to the law of sin?

    or

    dead to the Law of the Creator?

    What is the “law of sin and death”? What “law” are we free from?


    Romans 6:14, “For sin shall not rule over you, for you are not under the Law but under favor.”


    Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”


    Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”


    *“Law” is word # G3551 – nomos, Strong's Concordance, nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law, Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ, Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine, Transliteration: nomos, Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os), Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law, Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of, law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law;, metion: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general


    Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"


    Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin* that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


    *What is sin, that we may not continue in it and thus have “died to sin”?


    1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


    Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”


    Romans 8:2, “Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.”


    Romans 6:12-23, “Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, to obey it in its desires, neither present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to יהוה as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to יהוה. For sin shall not rule over you, for you are not under the law but under favor. (Gen 4:7, “Is it not if you do good, you are to be accepted? And if you do not do good, towards the door is a sin, it is lying and towards you is his desire, and you must rule over it.”) What then? Shall we sin because we are not under Torah but under unmerited mercy? Let it not be! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness? But thanks to יהוה that you were servants of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of teaching to which you were entrusted. And having been set free from sin, you became servants of righteousness. I speak as a man, because of the weakness of your flesh. For even as you did present your members as servants of uncleanness, and of lawlessness resulting in lawlessness, so now present your members as servants of righteousness resulting in set-apartness. For when you were servants of sin, you were free from righteousness. What fruit, therefore, were you having then, over which you are now ashamed? For the end thereof is death. But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of יהוה, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the favorable gift of יהוהis everlasting life in Messiah יהושע our Master.”


    Romans 7 -
    7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
    12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
    13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
    14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.


    1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."


    Romans 7 -
    16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.
    17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.
    22 For I delight in the Law of YHWH according to the inward man;
    23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.
    25 Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.


    "I have deliverance", is it deliverance from "do not steal" or deliverance from breaking "do not steal"? Or is it deliverance from a mind that wants to do those things?


    Romans 8:2, “Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.”


    Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.”


    1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."


    Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, YHWH did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."


    He did not bear witness against the Law, He came to bear witness against sin, which is the breaking the Law.


    Is it a sin to steal? or is it a sin to follow do not steal?


    Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual...”


    Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."


    What is the flesh opposed to? Following YHWH's Law? Rejecting YHWH's Law?


    the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be


    2 Peter 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul (Paul) wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,"


    So what did Yahshua/Jesus abolish? I wouls like to point out that the words that are in italics* are ADDED:


    Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity,*that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "


    Not only does the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.


    Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity (#G2189 oppisition to) Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to YHWH through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."


    enmity is word #G2189 echthra, Strong's Concordance, echthra: enmity, hostility, Original Word: ἔχθρα, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: echthra, Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-thrah), Short Definition: enmity, hostility, Definition: enmity, hostility, alienation.


    Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon) Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.


    It is he opposition to YHWH's Law abolished, not the Law it's self.


    Romans 8:2, “Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.”


    Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.”


    1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."


    Romans 7:22 For I delight in the Law of YHWH according to the inward man; 23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members. 25 Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.


    Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."


    Romans 7:12-25,


    12, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


    13, "Was then that which is good made death unto me? By no means. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.


    14, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


    15, "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that I do.


    16, "If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.


    17, "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.


    18, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


    19, "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.


    20, "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwell in me.


    21, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.


    22, "For I delight in the law of יהוה after the inward man:


    23, "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”


    24, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


    25, "Thanks be to יהוה through Yahushua the Messiah our Saviour. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of יהוה; but with the flesh the law of sin."


    Romans 8:5-8,


    5, "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


    6, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


    7, "Because the carnal mind is enmity (bitterly opposed) against יהוה: for it is not subject to the law of יהוה, neither indeed can be.


    8, "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please יהוה.”
    Hiz Temp acct.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFaith View Post
    Agreed- we cannot follow both Christ and Moses at the same time- that would be committing spiritual adultery. The law (not God’s law but the physical way of obeying it under Moses) is nailed to the cross forevermore amen.

    the law is not the change it was never the problem, the problem was that satan corrupted Man and made us sinners who are contrary to the good and holy law. we do not belong to any part of the covenant of horeb, the law, the priesthood, the earthly tabernacle. we died to those things so that we can belong to the Gospel. we do not take a law that destroyed a sinner, and then fill the sinner with the holy spirit and send them back to the law that destroys sinners. that law has served its purpose to the one who goes to Jesus.

    we obey a new thing, not the old thing. we have a law, it begins at matt 1:1 and stretches to the end of john. we have to learn it and apply it to life. the old was all a figure spoeaking if the truth.

    Moses the mediator for israel, a figure of Jesus the true mediator, the levites a figure for Jesus the true priest, the law a figure of the gospel of Life, Moses led them from slavery to egypt, Jesus leads us from slavery to sin and death. Moses promises a promised land on earth, Jesus promises a promised land in Heaven and a whole new earth. the old covenant is only for the first creation its end is death and destruction to the whole earth. Moses promised a bless earthly life and then death, Jesus promises an eternal Heritage that is so great we cant even imagine it. the old covenant is behind the life of a christian. we have something far better.


    if we obey Jesus......the law of God is kept. < we christians are disciples of Jesus, not moses. we dont obey the mosaic Law by spirit, we obey the gospel that is the words of the spirit. if we werent offered the holy spirit, then we would have to try to acchievs salvation through the law of moses, and would fail because iot does not offer salvation only condemnation for sinners. salvation is only in Christ.
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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin. < I find then a law, that, when I would do good,evil is present with me. ( the law of god and evil created by adam inside of man)

    sin is in man. so. the solution is to put the sin in us to death, by revealing the truth that those who are baptized into Christ, are baptized into His death. <<<< the law has dominion over a man only as long as He lives/ >>> thats the end of the law for that person, thier death. the law of sin lead the sinner to death. and they are released at that point from the mosaic Law, because the mosaic Law was always intended to be a witness against sinners. that is the purpose of the law of Moses. to witness against those who are contrary to the covenant the law of God the tn commandments. those who have broken those, have the law of moses saying " you sinned and must die" it is a witness against sinners so anyone who has ever sinned has to die to fulfill the mosaic Law, Jesus fulfilled that for us. now the law has no claim on you or I because we paid our debt, Jesus paid it for us. we do not belong to the law now, we belong to Jesus. we learn His word, that is not the same as moses Word.


    Jesus word is Life the end of the Gospel is eternal Life, the end of the law, is death. One leads to the need for the other. until the law slays the sinner, hell never realize hes Lost and needs a savior and realize Jesus paid the atonement price and the atonement money in the law was only a shadow.


    we Obey the Law when we accept and obey Jesus Because He gave the Law of the spirit of Life, Gods true Law unveiled



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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    The law remains unchanged. It's necessity is to demonstrate to man his individual accountability to God.

    The cross satisfied the penalty of the law and made possible for man to have atonement for his sin.

    Gods grace imputes the righteousness of Christ through grace to the undeserving sinner. Placing on the sinless Christ all our sin which is then fully paid by the death of the Savior.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

    The cross satisfied the penalty of the law and made possible for man to have atonement for his sin."

    Jesus paid the price not the cross. and Jesus brought us out of the covenant that condemns sinners, in order to fill us with the spirit of God, so that we can walk worthy of His sacrifice. and obey His commandments without it being a greivance or contrary thing for us to do so. if a person accepts and obeys Jesus, they are promised eternal Salvation. if a person is walking in sin today, they are still beneath the mosaic Law and need to put that to death in Christ.

    the law will remain until heaven and earth are destroyed, because its meant to testify of Jesus and mans need for him. the christian already died to the law, its fulfilled that way for us. and we belong to the resurrection ministry the gospel

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    dead to the law of moses, the intercessor who spoke through a veil, to witness against sinners. the law of God, is the Law of Christ who spoke unveiled truth to call sinners to repentance. we died to the law of moses, if so we have died with Christ. the law of moses is not the law of God fopr the redeemed, it is the law for the rebellious and condemned. the unspiritual, trying to keep a holy law doesnt work. we are the problem with the law.


    the mosaic covenant is not the covenant from the beginning. cain kills abel, and God does not act according to the law and demand His death. instead God expells Him from His presence, makes Him a wanderer, and protects Him with a mark so no one will kill Him. the law given on sinai, was not yet given that says " thou shalt not kill" man had been made evil, but we didnt understand what the difference was. cain knew he had done something wrong because he lies about it. but God does not hold him accountable to moses writings.

    we changed, the gospel was from before the Law. in the beginning God blessed man freely giving Him the whole earth, giving us dominion over all things He made. satan planted evil in us, at this point the law became necassary because a sinner will never recognize thier sin until they see the law. we would never understand sin is death until the law was given. thats just the first step in redemption the mosaic Law, is not Gods Law. the ten commandments written on stone are the covenant, those However are taught in the gospel. they have nothing to do with the law of moses.


    if we kill, there is a law saying we now are guilty and deserve to die. a christian who obeys the gospel will never bear a grudge, will forgive generously, will not repay eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth life for a life. we have the gospel, we dont have to keep the rules meant for those waiting for the gospel. the gospel is what our Law is, if we follow the gospel, the covenant Law will be kept.

    Jesus doesnt say " thou shalt not Kill" He says " do not Hate, do not covet, do not envy, do no violence to each other even if someone does it to you, leave no room for any reason to even consider killing.....and you will never have to address that commandment, because one who has no reason or motive to Kill, one full of the spirit.......the law is irrelevant, it is actually kept from the heart. its not saying " transgress the law now" its saying " you died to the law, so that you can obey God, because the law laready condemned you if you have ever sinned. the law is not flexible. you commit adultery you are now dead. no stays no pleas, no ill never do it again. you are judged and executed By the words of the law of moses.


    we can never belong to the law, because were all already sinners, one sin against the law of God, and Moses sentances us to death. if we serve the letter we have to serve all the letters, some seem to think we have authority to divide things out of the Law and well "ill obey this, but this isnt for me" that is stricly forbidden. the Law is one if a person claims obedience to it, you are then obligated by every letter in the book that mediates that covenant, the law of moses. Jesus didnt come to re teach moses Law and covenant, He came offering what moses was really speaking forward about. he is the answer to moses ministry and the condemnation that came to all men, because WE became sinners.

    we are they who need Jesus and the Gospel, the call to repentance, and the well of righteousness promised, the circumcision of the heart promised. the new birth promised. we dont get to God or maintain anything by the mosaic Law. its there for us to learn right and wrong and learn about Jesus. our alliegance beloings to Jesus Christ and His word. that is contrary to moses words.

    do not commit adultery....." but i tell you rid your heart and mind of lust for others and you will never consider adultery....

    do not Lie..............speak the truth to one another in Love. they say the same thing, from 2 perspectives.

    a liar you have to tell " do not lie" a new child who is learning from thier parent, you dont say " do not Lie" you say " always tell the truth"

    an adulterer you tell " thou shalt not commit adultery" ...a born again christian you tell " be faithful to the One you marry, its a lifetime commitment in Gods eyes"

    a thief, you tell " thou shalt not steal....a born again child of God, you must work with your own Hands that you may Have something to give the needy, and life is not about possessions, ect...Jesus teaches us not to value possessions that we steal them, not to value money that we would steal it. He is not teaching the Knowledge of good and evil, but the word of Life. to say were not under the law, isnt saying "now we transgress the law" were not under the Law, because it has no value to the new creation, the new birth to explain to them what not to do. were children so we have to listen to the One God sent to teach us How to Live an what to do. correction and discipline is cetanly a part of the gospel as well, and thats where the law has its place for us. its useful for t=raining in righteousness and understanding the gospel. thank God we have the Law, and thank God we died to it. Jesus is the Law of God from the beginning.


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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    GOD loves righteousness and although HE Is sovereign and could have taken the power of earth that man handed over to satin back from satin by force,HE chose to do things righteously and sent HIS WORD to earth as a man to fulfil the law perfectly and be the atoning sacrifice for man.

    For GOD SO loved the world that HE gave HIS only BEGOTTEN SON that whosoever believes In HIM should not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE.

    Hebrews 1:7-9
    King James Version(KJV)


    7.) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

    8.) But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    followjesus likes this.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    GOD loves righteousness and although HE Is sovereign and could have taken the power of earth that man handed over to satin back from satin by force,HE chose to do things righteously and sent HIS WORD to earth as a man to fulfil the law perfectly and be the atoning sacrifice for man.

    For GOD SO loved the world that HE gave HIS only BEGOTTEN SON that whosoever believes In HIM should not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE.

    Hebrews 1:7-9
    King James Version(KJV)


    7.) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

    8.) But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    Hello seed-time-harvest,

    Yes, I agree - Jesus fulfilled the Law for us in His human body and satisfied the penalty of not obeying the Law by dying on the cross and shedding His blood as The Lamb of God - Who takes away the sin of the world.

    Remember - John the Baptist wanted Jesus to baptize him, but Jesus said, "suffer it to be so, that we might fulfill all righteousness." Also, Jesus said at another time, "think not that I came to abolish the law but to fulfill it."

    So, His Body is His Righteousness which is the human fulfillment of the Law, which He freely gives us;

    His Blood is Forgiveness for not fulfilling the Law, which He freely gives us; and

    His Resurrection is His gift of Eternal Life, which He freely gives us.

    So, where is boasting? We can only boast in the Works of Christ for us! Glory be to Jesus - He did it ALL! Hallelujah!
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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Satan does not care what you believe as long is it perverts the truth.

    As long as people keep seeing the law as the problem they will never know the power of the Gospel.

    The Law is not the problem or the solution, it rather revealed the problem.

    If hiding the problem is all Jesus did then God could have saved himself the trouble and never revealed it in the first place.

    God gave the law to reveal the problem which is sin. Jesus came to deal with the problem or sin.
    LoveGodForever likes this.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    GOD loves righteousness and although HE Is sovereign and could have taken the power of earth that man handed over to satin back from satin by force,HE chose to do things righteously and sent HIS WORD to earth as a man to fulfil the law perfectly and be the atoning sacrifice for man.

    For GOD SO loved the world that HE gave HIS only BEGOTTEN SON that whosoever believes In HIM should not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE.

    Hebrews 1:7-9
    King James Version(KJV)


    7.) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

    8.) But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    For GOD SO loved the world that HE gave HIS only BEGOTTEN SON that whosoever believes In HIM should not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE."

    john 6:29 " Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

    john 5 " For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
    24
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    25
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

    28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

    john 8:51 " Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death."

    john 12 "
    And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."



    adam believed God existed, he didnt believe His word, He died because of that. cant Have faith in Jesus if we dont accept His word, and His gospel.
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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Sin is the transgression of the Law(Torah)
    Where there is no law, there is no sin. Where there is no sin, there is no need for a savior.

    The Law applies to ALL. For ALL have sinned, therefore ALL must be held accountable to the Law.

    It is not the obedience to the law that saves, it is the grace of G-D through faith apart from works.
    The Law is a teacher, the teaches us to love.
    The Law is our duty to G-D.

    "For this is the love of G-D, that you keep HIS commandments, and HIS commandments are not burdensome."
    "Fear G-D and keep HIS commandments, for this is the whole duty of mankind."

    Remember Satan's lie in the Garden.
    "Did G-D really say not to eat that fruit?"

    Satan's lie has not changed, today: "Did G-D really say not to eat that which HE has declared as unclean?"

    Sin is sin.
    G-D does not change, neither does HIS word.

    To Break the Law is sin.
    To love G-D is to obey the Law.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotime View Post
    Satan does not care what you believe as long is it perverts the truth.

    As long as people keep seeing the law as the problem they will never know the power of the Gospel.

    The Law is not the problem or the solution, it rather revealed the problem.

    If hiding the problem is all Jesus did then God could have saved himself the trouble and never revealed it in the first place.

    God gave the law to reveal the problem which is sin. Jesus came to deal with the problem or sin.

    exactly, by the law sin is recognized as our problem, by the death of Jesus, we die to the law because it has revealed, were sinners condemned by the law that is perfect and therefore contrary to imperfection, or sinful man. you do not need the law after you die. it ends at death for the person. there is nothing beyond a sentance of death. a person who has died, does not then take thier new life and yoke it with a burden meant for the dead man they left behind.


    the law is useful. but anyone that has ever studied the law of moses, cannot argue that it does not allow an adulterer, to live, or a son who dishonors thier parent, or many many other things. there is no pardon according to the blood in the law, it remonds the survivors of the fact that sin leads to the shedding of Life......or "death" the gospel is not the same thing. the Blood of the covenant of Jesus Christ, is the blood that takes away the sin, clears the consciens and scrubs the stains from the walls in us.


    chrustians dont go back to stoning each other for sin, we follow the gospel. christians dont go back to taking equal revenge for an offense, we go forward in the gospel, forgiving the offenses because God has fogvien us. we cant follow the law of moses, and Jesus at the same time it doesnt work you would have to choose moses law, or the gospel they are contrary instructions.

    eye for an eye ......turn the other cheek

    stone the fellow sinner......forgive the sinner who transgresses against you and leave judgement and vengeance to God.

    they are entirely different, there is a shadow ofthe gospel hidden in the law, but the law is not ours who have been raised in Christ. its only a manuel to help us learn of Gods character now, always uselful never our governance in our relationship to God However, that is the gospel thats our testament and covenant Our blood, our priest, our Law, our promised land, our eternal Life...... the law of moses has to be removed from over a person or they are held in death forever by Gods word which cant be broken. to solve that, God made a way by His word to die, and be born again through Christ and it releases us from the dominion of the Law. and places us into the Kingdom of the children of God.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed2015 View Post
    Sin is the transgression of the Law(Torah)
    Where there is no law, there is no sin. Where there is no sin, there is no need for a savior.

    The Law applies to ALL. For ALL have sinned, therefore ALL must be held accountable to the Law.

    It is not the obedience to the law that saves, it is the grace of G-D through faith apart from works.
    The Law is a teacher, the teaches us to love.
    The Law is our duty to G-D.

    "For this is the love of G-D, that you keep HIS commandments, and HIS commandments are not burdensome."
    "Fear G-D and keep HIS commandments, for this is the whole duty of mankind."

    Remember Satan's lie in the Garden.
    "Did G-D really say not to eat that fruit?"

    Satan's lie has not changed, today: "Did G-D really say not to eat that which HE has declared as unclean?"

    Sin is sin.
    G-D does not change, neither does HIS word.

    To Break the Law is sin.
    To love G-D is to obey the Law.
    Sin is the transgression of the Law(Torah)
    Where there is no law, there is no sin. Where there is no sin, there is no need for a savior.

    The Law applies to ALL. For ALL have sinned, therefore ALL must be held accountable to the Law.

    It is not the obedience to the law that saves, it is the grace of G-D through faith apart from works.
    The Law is a teacher, the teaches us to love.
    The Law is our duty to G-D.



    there is the law of moses.....and there is the gospel. which do we follow?

    stone the sinner of moses command ? or do we follow forgive the sinner...Jesus command?

    what do we believe about marriage? the law of moses or the gospel?

    if i mary and am unhappy, moses said i am free to send my wife away with a divorce certificate. then yu are free to re marry who you want.

    Jesus said, naw the only reason to divorce is fornication, and then the one who remarries is an adulterer."


    so do i follow the law og Moses given at horeb to those who stood before the mount being warned not to dare come near?

    or do I follow the Gospel, Gods true Law revealed at last, when Jesus comes to me and says come all who wish to me and I will give you rest, learn of me come to me, the closer the better and you will Live.....


    mankind could not handle the gospel which is the Law of the spirit of Life, so they received the law of moses as they asked of God. that word is not for us, its only to learn, we are in no way obligated by any letter in the law, we are obligated to every word of Jesus Christ. Moses did no ontercession for adulterers, he commanded them stoned to death by the people. Jesus came to interceed for that adulterer, to free her from the condemnation the law had decreed on Her. they are 2 different things . satan actually used the law against us....by making us sinners. like he did adam He used Gods word, agains them by causing them to transgress it.


    the law is all based on " you will surely die" because thats how man saw God in thier twisted minds. God comes near man flees in terror and pleads not to hear him speak. God was the same then, they saw that because satan was causing them to see it through the knowledge of evil and thier guilt according to the law, the covenant law the ten commandments. they heard them and God answered thier request that He should not speak anymore to them. then He promises to send Jesus with His own words of eternal Authority. see deuteronomy 18, and acts 3 what peter says about what moses said and who that is.


    Jesus is Our Lawgiver, not moses.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotime View Post
    Satan does not care what you believe as long is it perverts the truth.

    As long as people keep seeing the law as the problem they will never know the power of the Gospel.

    The Law is not the problem or the solution, it rather revealed the problem.

    If hiding the problem is all Jesus did then God could have saved himself the trouble and never revealed it in the first place.

    God gave the law to reveal the problem which is sin. Jesus came to deal with the problem or sin.
    Without JESUS the law IS a problem for any man to fulfill perfectly,Every man In his own strength would come short of GOD's perfect standard of righteousness.
    gotime and lightbearer like this.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    Without JESUS the law IS a problem for any man to fulfill perfectly,Every man In his own strength would come short of GOD's perfect standard of righteousness.
    I agree with that. but the problem again is us not then law.

    Its not the law that is failing it is us failing to keep it, thus sin. If we had kept it perfectly then there would be no issue. thus demonstrating that the issue is us not the law.

    Saying the law is the problem is akin to saying to the state who punishes a thief that the law is the issue not the deed done.

    That law is good it is right, the issue is the sinner. taking away the law does not change a thief. Forgiving the thief and changing the thief so he does not steal any more. Now that is a solution.
    seed_time_harvest and BillG like this.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed2015 View Post
    Sin is the transgression of the Law(Torah)
    Where there is no law, there is no sin. Where there is no sin, there is no need for a savior.

    The Law applies to ALL. For ALL have sinned, therefore ALL must be held accountable to the Law.

    It is not the obedience to the law that saves, it is the grace of G-D through faith apart from works.
    The Law is a teacher, the teaches us to love.
    The Law is our duty to G-D.

    "For this is the love of G-D, that you keep HIS commandments, and HIS commandments are not burdensome."
    "Fear G-D and keep HIS commandments, for this is the whole duty of mankind."

    Remember Satan's lie in the Garden.
    "Did G-D really say not to eat that fruit?"

    Satan's lie has not changed, today: "Did G-D really say not to eat that which HE has declared as unclean?"

    Sin is sin.
    G-D does not change, neither does HIS word.

    To Break the Law is sin.
    To love G-D is to obey the Law.
    Are you talking about keeping the ten commandments or are you talking about the two commandments by which we establish the law?
    And remember that we can only keep the two commandments because GOD first loved us.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    Are you talking about keeping the ten commandments or are you talking about the two commandments by which we establish the law?
    And remember that we can only keep the two commandments because GOD first loved us.

    Love doesnt replace the commandments...Love keeps them because its what we do that is Love How we treat each other.

    romans 13 " Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."


    Love doesnt remove us from our accountability for what we do. sin, has always been primarily How we treat each other wrong. when we Lie, its what we do to each other. when we steal, its from one another, when we cheat, its on one another, when we bear false witness, its against each other...ect.


    Love doesnt do those things, so it is the fulfillment of the Law, by following Jesus who taught us, its not about what not to do, but about what we do now, because we are born of the spirit of God. to Love, is much more about our actions than our feelings. if i say i love a person daily and treat them with my actions as if i dont care, im not loving them. im just saying it.

    Love has to be Gods way. in deed and truth, Because Jesus Loved us that way first, and taught us to Love Like He loved us.......mans love is of no value to us it is a song we write because we find a feeling inside us for another special person. Love to God is to treat the other people special or not, as if they are our dear brother or sister. so if we see them in trouble or need we will surely act in Love to help them.

    if i love my neighbor i will not steal, lie, kill, covet, bear false testimony against him.....If i Love God, I will have no other gods before Him....in other words Love doesnt remove or erase the ten commandments, it will keep them but not because we shall die if we dont, it keeps them because.......they are right laws to keep. who can argue its ok to steal? Lie? cheat? bear false testimony? ignore a day God himself decreed as Holy and Made for man, as a gift. there is no valid argument against the commandments. Love will never be found opposed to them.

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    Default Re: romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

    I really don't get how people don't pick up on that point. Love has always fulfilled the law.

    The problem with the nation of Israel was they did not love and they did not love because they did not trust. Thus they looked at the law as a list of performance merits and failed. (I speak in general, of course many individuals did love and follow God).

    You can't say you love God and man and not keep the law. Its simply not possible. when we don't keep the law we are simply not loving. We in fact can't love like that without the Love of God being shed in our hearts.

    This is why the Good news is the POWER of God. Its transforming. When someone says they can't keep the commandments after coming to Jesus I see someone who has a powerless and useless Gospel.
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