Jesus Needed Faith To Do Miracles?

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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#1
Jan 6, 2018
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#1
There is a bad christology by some people who believe Jesus didn't do miracles to show His divinity but only as a man who excercised faith. The kenosis means, to these people, that Jesus was not God, therefore he was just like you or I filled with the Holy Spirit. They even claim that you and I are just as much as incarnation of God as Jesus was. If Jesus needed faith then that means he was not God.

"No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us."
John 1:18 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/jhn.1.18.NLT
 
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mj007

Banned
#2
Feb 5, 2017
1,118
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#2
You're separating things too much though. All are one, just as Jesus is God, but didn't say hello me when he spoke to God, right?
 
Musicus

Musicus

Senior Member
#3
Oct 26, 2017
314
39
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#3
DevotiontoBible said:
There is a bad christology by some people who believe Jesus didn't do miracles to show His divinity but only as a man who excercised faith. The kenosis means, to these people, that Jesus was not God, therefore he was just like you or I filled with the Holy Spirit. They even claim that you and I are just as much as incarnation of God as Jesus was. If Jesus needed faith then that means he was not God.

"No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us."
John 1:18 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/jhn.1.18.NLT
Click to expand...
Whether Jesus did miracles by faith or by divine power is beyond my need to know. I do know that I'm supposed to have faith and act on it.
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#4
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#4
mj007 said:
You're separating things too much though. All are one, just as Jesus is God, but didn't say hello me when he spoke to God, right?
Click to expand...
Jesus was 100% God when He was on earth.
 
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Speak2Me

Banned
#5
Sep 14, 2017
900
23
0
#5
DevotiontoBible said:
There is a bad christology by some people who believe Jesus didn't do miracles to show His divinity but only as a man who excercised faith. The kenosis means, to these people, that Jesus was not God, therefore he was just like you or I filled with the Holy Spirit. They even claim that you and I are just as much as incarnation of God as Jesus was. If Jesus needed faith then that means he was not God.

"No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us."
John 1:18 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/jhn.1.18.NLT
Click to expand...
1 Peter 2:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, [SUP]22 [/SUP] WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;

Jesus performed everything on this Earth as a man, otherwise He couldn't be our example to emulate at all.
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#6
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
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#6
Musicus said:
Whether Jesus did miracles by faith or by divine power is beyond my need to know. I do know that I'm supposed to have faith and act on it.
Click to expand...
Then the disciples worshiped him. “You really are the Son of God!” they exclaimed.
Matthew 14:‬33 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/mat.14.29-33.NLT

It's already in Scripture about Jesus. When Jesus walked on water the disciples worshipped Him in Matt 14:33. Jesus didn't correct them by saying something like "don't worship me. I'm only a man" .

As Peter entered his home, Cornelius fell at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter pulled him up and said, “Stand up! I’m a human being just like you!”
Acts of the Apostles 10:25*-‬26 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/act.10.25-26.NLT

Hebrews 11:1 defines faith so according to it what could Jesus being God not see that He would need faith?
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#7
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
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#7
Speak2Me said:
1 Peter 2:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, [SUP]22 [/SUP] WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;

Jesus performed everything on this Earth as a man, otherwise He couldn't be our example to emulate at all.
Click to expand...
That is about suffering not performing miracles.
 
Prov910

Prov910

Senior Member
#8
Jan 10, 2017
880
47
0
#8
I am curious about this. Mark 6 outlines the situation:

5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith. (Mark 6:5-6).
​

It seems to me that this passage says Jesus could not do miracles without faith. What's the deal here?
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#9
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#9
Prov910 said:
I am curious about this. Mark 6 outlines the situation:

5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith. (Mark 6:5-6).
​

It seems to me that this passage says Jesus could not do miracles without faith. What's the deal here?
Click to expand...
Whose lack of faith, Jesus'? No.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#10
Jul 18, 2017
24,328
12,863
113
#10
Prov910 said:
I am curious about this. Mark 6 outlines the situation:
5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith. (Mark 6:5-6).
​

It seems to me that this passage says Jesus could not do miracles without faith. What's the deal here?
Click to expand...
Why are you totally misunderstanding this passage? It was the lack of faith on the part of the people surrounding Him which led to His refusal to so miracles. Since Jesus was and is the God-Man, He did not need faith in Himself. He was the Creator of the universe.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#11
Jul 31, 2013
36,625
13,119
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#11
Nehemiah6 said:
Why are you totally misunderstanding this passage? It was the lack of faith on the part of the people surrounding Him which led to His refusal to so miracles. Since Jesus was and is the God-Man, He did not need faith in Himself. He was the Creator of the universe.
Click to expand...
yes but the question is why could He not do miracles on account of their lack of faith?

why was His own working contingent on their belief ?


Nehemiah6 said:
His refusal to so miracles.
Click to expand...
the text does not say "He refused" -- it says He "could not" and that He marveled at their lack.
 
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Speak2Me

Banned
#13
Sep 14, 2017
900
23
0
#13
posthuman said:
yes but the question is why could He not do miracles on account of their lack of faith?

why was His own working contingent on their belief ?




the text does not say "He refused" -- it says He "could not" and that He marveled at their lack.
Click to expand...
God wouldn't/couldn't do miracles for any person who didn't believe in Him.

Why people are making this so hard...
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#14
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#14
Nehemiah6 said:
Why are you totally misunderstanding this passage? It was the lack of faith on the part of the people surrounding Him which led to His refusal to so miracles. Since Jesus was and is the God-Man, He did not need faith in Himself. He was the Creator of the universe.
Click to expand...
posthuman said:
yes but the question is why could He not do miracles on account of their lack of faith?

why was His own working contingent on their belief ?




the text does not say "He refused" -- it says He "could not" and that He marveled at their lack.
Click to expand...
That is not the question on this discussion. The question is did Jesus use his own faith to do miracles? I say no because he doesn't need to.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#16
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#16
Prov910 said:
I am curious about this. Mark 6 outlines the situation:
5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith. (Mark 6:5-6).
​

It seems to me that this passage says Jesus could not do miracles without faith. What's the deal here?
Click to expand...
Their lack of faith in HIM
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#17
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#17
DevotiontoBible said:
That is not the question on this discussion. The question is did Jesus use his own faith to do miracles? I say no because he doesn't need to.
Click to expand...
If you do not believe me believe the works that they speak that the father is in me (and I am in the father)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#19
Jul 31, 2013
36,625
13,119
113
#19
Speak2Me said:
God wouldn't/couldn't do miracles for any person who didn't believe in Him.

Why people are making this so hard...
Click to expand...
what about this though, as a counter-example

But though He had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on Him
(John 12:37)
​

?

this isn't the only place, either - in Matthew 11:20 He pronounces woes on cities, because He had performed many miracles in them but the people still did not repent - should we take lack of repentance as synonymous with lack of faith? we could also bring up Balaam, and Pharaoh in Egypt, and many other things. it seems that miraculous works are not always hand-in-hand with faith and they are not always preceded by or contingent on them -- is that accurate?


it's not an unsolvable question, but it's not simple, and bears close examination

 
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