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Thread: Scriptural support for Free Will

  1. #201
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by davida View Post
    Would you like to fish out some of your statements???? Better look in a mirror before you accuse
    You're right. You can "fish out" some of my statements. That means "not all of them." Yours? Every. Single. Last. One!

    This is all you do. Point fingers and think that makes you shine. No.

    Really doesn't. Not even a dull luster.

    You do get we're supposed to edify, right? When will you be getting there? (And I really don't think you have a clue how to edify, but it's not confirmed yet.)

    I gather that other site didn't do it for you? Just no one to complain about there? (I can see where that would bore you in a hurry.) Or did you get banned too?
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Do you serve a big shovel and some waist-high waders with your thick manure?

    It's really bad when you say something off the wall, and then turn around and teach against it as if the person who told you why it was off the wall was the one stupid enough to say it in the first place.
    I really do not expect you to comprehend what I write.
    Then I will pray for God's mercy on you. (As in your meekness and humility rivals Donald Trump's.)
    Don't say it if you're not going to do it.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Senior Member BenFTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever View Post
    I don't see where Ben said anything about salvation here. I do see where he said "at the very least acknowledging that God exists through the glory of His creation". (For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Rom. 1:20)] That is why I "liked" his post. Ben acknowledged that "it may be time before they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, however" - which would be through the gospel preached.
    This, right here. SovereignGrace, I won't say whether your intentions are pure or not, the Lord knows, but if you read what I said as peacefulbeliever did it is clear that I am not preaching a "gospel-less" Gospel. There have been testimonies of atheists who after examining this world through observation have determined that there is a God. This doesn't mean they are saved. They simply acknowledged the existence of God. They still need to be saved through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, and Him crucified (which occurs through the preaching of the Gospel, and the conviction of the Holy Spirit).

    As for Angela, I have no clue what she is referring to and had no clue I was on her ignore. Had I misinterpreted something she said she should've corrected me instead of placing me on ignore. If someone can relate this to her, "I'm sorry if I misinterpreted what you said."

  4. #204
    Senior Member BenFTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever View Post
    "at least some convert that way" . . . I don't claim to know EXACTLY what Ben meant by that phrase but from his other post I do know that he believes people have to come to Christ . . . that there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved . . . It is not right to pick out just that phrase and say that he is saying there is "another gospel". His complete sentence was - "At least, some people convert this way, at the very least acknowledging that God exists. It may be time before they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, however." Convert does not mean repent - a person who has been persuaded to change their religious faith or other beliefs . . . So, IOW, he is saying that through the glory of His creation, intelligent design, through observation, some will, at least, acknowledge God exists . . . THEN come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

    Of course, Ben can speak for himself.
    We've got a mind reader here. That or, jokingly said, someone that has reading comprehension. SovereignGrace, again, this right here.

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    I really do not expect you to comprehend what I write.

    Don't say it if you're not going to do it.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    If you don't expect readers to understand what you write, why write?
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Do you serve a big shovel and some waist-high waders with your thick manure
    And do you always have to be using crude barnyard language to get your point across?

  7. #207
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Here are all the posts you've ever written on CC.

    Can you show me even one where you showed love? Just one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Do you serve a big shovel and some waist-high waders with your thick manure?

    It's really bad when you say something off the wall, and then turn around and teach against it as if the person who told you why it was off the wall was the one stupid enough to say it in the first place.



    Then I will pray for God's mercy on you. (As in your meekness and humility rivals Donald Trump's.)
    Prima facie

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Go back and reread it. He said at least some convert that way. Ummm, no they don't. Also, acknowledging God exists is non-sequitor. Those who have not heard the gospel never had a bible in their hand, never had someone witness to them, does not wake up one day, look at the sky and think, "God sent His Son to live a sinless life on my behalf, died in my stead, arose three days later, ascended to the Father, and is coming again." That's the gospel per 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that Ben and Roger mock by saying some can be converted without it. That's mysticism.

    Also, the Primitive Baptists, who hold to the TULIP, believe ppl are not saved by the gospel. They say the gospel gives light to the Christ, who saves them. I have a dead friend who is an Old Regular Baptist that is of the Primitive Baptist faith and order, and he, and many others, stated that ppl are saved without the gospel. That's rubbish.
    AMEN!!!!!!!!!! (You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SovereignGrace again.)
    Laish and SovereignGrace like this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    I never said I read a book about a gospel-less salvation. But when we show you many died w/o hearing it, just like Old Faithful, you guys chime in with Romans 1. Yet, natural revelation does not reveal the cross of the God's Christ. It does not tell them the gospel. If ppl, who never heard the gospel, are saved by what they see, then it's a gospel-less salvation. Something that you and Ben adhere to...a gospel-less salvation.
    They believe salvation is believeism, just acknowledge there is a god and you're in. That is their miss take of Romans 1 and the gist of what they read into it. They haven't really grasped what it is teaching and just parrot what they've heard.

    It's "Hi, I'm God up here, now, just vote for me, and you're in, guaranteed!!!!"
    Laish and SovereignGrace like this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


  10. #210
    Senior Member peacefulbeliever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    They believe salvation is believeism, just acknowledge there is a god and you're in. That is their miss take of Romans 1 and the gist of what they read into it. They haven't really grasped what it is teaching and just parrot what they've heard.

    It's "Hi, I'm God up here, now, just vote for me, and you're in, guaranteed!!!!"
    That is not what is being said . . .

    Faith is belief and one must believe that God is . . . . But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he rewards them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:6) If one does not believe in God then surely one will not believe in the only begotten Son of God . . . . if one does not believe in God then one will not believe the written word of God much less the gospel . . . again, no one is saying "all we have to do is believe in God for salvation - the word of God clearly, in many places says we must believe in the only begotten Son of God . . . although Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.
    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

  11. #211
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    If you don't expect readers to understand what you write, why write?
    Not all are capable of actual thought. Those that can think will comprehend while others need to grow.

    Pr 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  12. #212
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    They believe salvation is believeism, just acknowledge there is a god and you're in. That is their miss take of Romans 1 and the gist of what they read into it. They haven't really grasped what it is teaching and just parrot what they've heard.

    It's "Hi, I'm God up here, now, just vote for me, and you're in, guaranteed!!!!"
    It is more commonly recited as God cast a vote for you and the devil cast a vote for you now you get to cast the deciding vote. It's the practical explanation of election.

    You it is quite rude to refer to folks in the third person?

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    You're right. You can "fish out" some of my statements. That means "not all of them." Yours? Every. Single. Last. One!

    This is all you do. Point fingers and think that makes you shine. No.

    Really doesn't. Not even a dull luster.

    You do get we're supposed to edify, right? When will you be getting there? (And I really don't think you have a clue how to edify, but it's not confirmed yet.)

    I gather that other site didn't do it for you? Just no one to complain about there? (I can see where that would bore you in a hurry.) Or did you get banned too?
    This is your example to me?????
    I see the mixed up idea you have about the nature of God.

    It shows in your character, tell me Jesus would be proud of you and the way you speak to people.

    Let's see if you can tell the truth

  14. #214
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    This, right here. SovereignGrace, I won't say whether your intentions are pure or not, the Lord knows, but if you read what I said as peacefulbeliever did it is clear that I am not preaching a "gospel-less" Gospel. There have been testimonies of atheists who after examining this world through observation have determined that there is a God. This doesn't mean they are saved. They simply acknowledged the existence of God. They still need to be saved through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, and Him crucified (which occurs through the preaching of the Gospel, and the conviction of the Holy Spirit).

    As for Angela, I have no clue what she is referring to and had no clue I was on her ignore. Had I misinterpreted something she said she should've corrected me instead of placing me on ignore. If someone can relate this to her, "I'm sorry if I misinterpreted what you said."
    You did say some were converted that way. Converted/conversion, in biblical terms, means to be saved.
    Depleted and Laish like this.
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever View Post
    That is not what is being said . . .

    Faith is belief and one must believe that God is . . . . But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he rewards them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:6) If one does not believe in God then surely one will not believe in the only begotten Son of God . . . . if one does not believe in God then one will not believe the written word of God much less the gospel . . . again, no one is saying "all we have to do is believe in God for salvation - the word of God clearly, in many places says we must believe in the only begotten Son of God . . . although Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.
    If ppl never hear the gospel, ppl can’t be saved. They can acknowledge God all the day long, but unless they hear the gospel and believe it, they can’t be saved. They have to know about the cross, and He who died on it. God was pleased to save the lost through the preaching of the gospel, just not acknowledging His existence.

    Ppl in remote areas know God exists, but not ever having a bible, they worship statues, animals, ppl such as Buddha, &c. As it says in Romans 1, they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
    Laish likes this.
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    If ppl never hear the gospel, ppl can’t be saved. They can acknowledge God all the day long, but unless they hear the gospel and believe it, they can’t be saved. They have to know about the cross, and He who died on it. God was pleased to save the lost through the preaching of the gospel, just not acknowledging His existence.

    Ppl in remote areas know God exists, but not ever having a bible, they worship statues, animals, ppl such as Buddha, &c. As it says in Romans 1, they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

    The beauty of our God, is that those He has chosen to be His people He will grant to them that the Spirit give them life, John 6:63, 65

    63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life…..65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    Philippians 1:29
    “For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,”

    We see that it is the Father that grants us not only to believe, but life as well. Isn't that beautiful for these beginning verses show us that we are granted life and/or belief by the Father that the Father gives and does for His people.
    Depleted and SovereignGrace like this.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I do not at all understand the mystery of grace--only that it meets us where we are but does not leave us where it found us. Anne Lamott

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




  17. #217
    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    I am still waiting for the Scriptural eveidence for the free will of man to chose salvation. With something like this man choses God, man understand all of God's ways when it come to salvation or the opposite end of the spectrum of I Corinthians 2:14

    The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.”

    II Corinthians 4:3-4 “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
    Depleted, Laish and SovereignGrace like this.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I do not at all understand the mystery of grace--only that it meets us where we are but does not leave us where it found us. Anne Lamott

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




  18. #218
    Senior Member peacefulbeliever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    If ppl never hear the gospel, ppl can’t be saved. They can acknowledge God all the day long, but unless they hear the gospel and believe it, they can’t be saved. They have to know about the cross, and He who died on it. God was pleased to save the lost through the preaching of the gospel, just not acknowledging His existence.
    I've not said differently. . . . Romans 10:9
    Ppl in remote areas know God exists, but not ever having a bible, they worship statues, animals, ppl such as Buddha, &c. As it says in Romans 1, they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
    People in remote areas know "a god" exists consequently they worship statues, etc. - but there are also Christians in these remote areas that have heard the gospel and still others who have heard yet suppress the truth. As it says in Romans 1 - Because when they "knew" God, they glorified him not as God - These people "know" about the one true God but they do not glorify God nor are thankful and change the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, etc. They changed the truth of God into a lie. IOW, they heard but rejected the one true God. . . . And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. . . . The gospel will be preached to all, giving everyone the opportunity to trust and believe the gospel.

    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

  19. #219
    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_B View Post
    I am still waiting for the Scriptural eveidence for the free will of man to chose salvation. With something like this man choses God, man understand all of God's ways when it come to salvation or the opposite end of the spectrum of I Corinthians 2:14

    The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.”

    II Corinthians 4:3-4 “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
    Here's the sad part about the Scriptual eviedence, is no one is going to come up with the Scriptures asked for. Yet N6 and Wiggles are still going to go around with the chest sticking out like they posted some Scripture to prove their unBiblical point, when in fact they never even tried, because they know they do not exsist.

    Yet they will stay in their utopian fantasyland as if they conquored something, when in fact they have not met the challenge and they never will. Because they know they can't, yet that stuborn part of man will hold them hostage. Like it held me hostage for many years, I could not give up the idea that somehow I held the cards of FREE WILL when it does not exsist.

    Psalm 85:1-13
    Lord, you were favorable to your land;you restored the fortunes of Jacob.2 You forgave the iniquity of your people; you covered all their sin. Selah

    3 You withdrew all your wrath; you turned from your hot anger.4 Restore us again, O God of our salvation, and put away your indignation toward us!5 Will you be angry with us forever? Will you prolong your anger to all generations?6 Will you not revive us again, that your people may rejoice in you?7 Show us your steadfast love, O Lord, and grant us your salvation.8 Let me hear what God the Lord will speak, for he will speak peace to his people, to his saints; but let them not turn back to folly.9 Surely his salvation is near to those who fear him, that glory may dwell in our land.10 Steadfast love and faithfulness meet; righteousness and peace kiss each other.11 Faithfulness springs up from the ground, and righteousness looks down from the sky.12 Yes, the Lord will give what is good, and our land will yield its increase.13 Righteousness will go before him and make his footsteps a way.”

    My Brothers I plead with you to look at who you are before the Lord and who the Lord is before the universe and ask yourself if you can come to Him freely for the salvation of your soul. That answer is for you to come to gribs with. I will say that His mercies are new every morning and they endure from evelasting to everlasting, because they flow from the very soul and heart of the Lord.

    Love for both of you guys, life has it hairpin corners, yet it also has it's wide open spaces to lead my children to the promise land, AMEN!!!
    Depleted likes this.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I do not at all understand the mystery of grace--only that it meets us where we are but does not leave us where it found us. Anne Lamott

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




  20. #220
    Senior Member so-jesus-e-deus's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    It there isn't Free Will. After all, we are slave of the sin, and slave isn't free:


    • "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;" (Rom 3.9).
    • "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6.17-22).
    Depleted and SovereignGrace like this.
    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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