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Thread: Scriptural support for Free Will

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon
    Wow you do think very highly of yourself. Great demonstration of Godly humility.

    I do hope that one day you attain to the level of Spurgeon in your relationship with Christ.

    Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    We are to be conformed to the image of His Son. I include myself in that admonition.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    He most certainly did not make Eve do anything of the sort. He tricked her and she freely ate. This 'the devil made me do it' is just a cop out for man's sin. Ppl freely sin, just as Eve freely sinned.

    When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.[Genesis 3:6]

    Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.[James 1:15]

    Eve lusted/desired after the ToK, and once it(lust/desire) was conceived, it lead to sin, and then sin lead to death. They died spiritually right then and there, and the sentence of physical death was also pronounced on them and their posterity. She desired the ToK, because she fell for the lie of the serpent. But she freely ate, the serpent did not make her sin.
    Where did Eve find the liberty to rebel against God? Eve was innocent in the garden and could not conceive of sin. Where in the determinate will of God did Eve find the ability to rebel and transgress the word of God?

    How can an innocent heart develop lust? Why did God allow Eve to be deceived?

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan58 View Post
    If we don't have free will, then God is responsible for sin, whereby, God cannot be righteous. Everyone has a choice, everyone makes decisions, so of course we can all do as we will. It is not God's will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9), that's our choice.... jmo
    No, without choice, God would be responsible for our sins. We were given choice, and yet still "willed" to sin. Why would/do we willingly sin? AND, why don't we willingly choose God?

    Because our will isn't free. It's directly linked to our nature. And what is our nature apart from God? Sin nature! Not "free nature."

    John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

    And what changed our nature? Certainly not our choice. Certainly not our will. We lived within our own darkness to keep our sin.

    This is who "carried out" (although I like the word "wrought" better, sounds more forceful and demanding, which it is), our change in nature. Our desire to stay in the darkness. Our desire to continue to hide our sins.

    John 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

    Funny thing. After God saves us, we go right back to thinking we did, simply because a guy in the OT (Joshua), who was already chosen by God, asked the people to "choose this day." He could choose. He chose, because God first chose him.

    Also, not an act of his free will. An act of the new-and-improved supernature in him.

    We're still not free. We just got better governing authority over us -- the Lord. And he is good.
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    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel2020 View Post
    Satan had already had influence on Eve before she took of the fruit and ate., by telling her that God was a liar about the consequences of eating the fruit. She turned against God that very moment because she had made up in her mind that she was going to eat the fruit, no matter what. She lost her faith in God,because she believed Satan.,and said "I will". Not knowing the trouble ahead for this action. That saying, that the devil made me do it fits well. He made Eve turn against God.
    Ha! God held Adam accountable, so don't blame Eve.
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    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Where did Eve find the liberty to rebel against God? Eve was innocent in the garden and could not conceive of sin. Where in the determinate will of God did Eve find the ability to rebel and transgress the word of God?

    How can an innocent heart develop lust? Why did God allow Eve to be deceived?

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    Adam and Eve were sinless, but not infallible. They had the ability to sin, as evidenced by their fall.
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    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    Thomas Cranmer

    "A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."

    Charles Spurgeon

    “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

    William Booth

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will



    Still waiting for the scriptures that proves, (in context), that Man freely willed himself to the Lord.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Adam and Eve were sinless, but not infallible. They had the ability to sin, as evidenced by their fall.
    Adam and Eve were innocent and did not have the capacity to sin any more than an infant child. That is why the tree of knowledge of good and evil was off limits to them.

    The determinate will of God had to accommodate the permissive will of God for the serpent to tempt them and cause them to fall.

    Adam and Eve had no knowledge of sin prior to the fall.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post


    Still waiting for the scriptures that proves, (in context), that Man freely willed himself to the Lord.
    You cannot obtain the correct answer until you correctly form the question. Man does not will himself to the Lord but submits his will to the Lord.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.[John 8:35,36]

    The only true freedom ppl have is found in Christ. Those who are lost are outside of the Christ, and therefore, they can not have a free will.

    because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set youfree from the law of sin and death.[Romans 8:2]

    Unless the Lord sets one free, their will is in bondage to sin and Satan. Only God can set one free from the law of sin and death.
    I suppose then, that you're grateful that God chose you over some other poor soul? Such logic has implications that contradict with scripture that clearly says that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the world, not just believers. If salvation and the forgiveness of sin is available to all and all do not receive it, then who here is to blame? Has man rejected God, rejected the light or has God failed to draw them?

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Still waiting for the scriptures that proves, (in context), that Man freely willed himself to the Lord.
    That's because you ignored my post. And even if you were given the evidence, it would make no difference. You (and others of your persuasion) prefer man-made dogmas to God's truth.
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    The wages of sin is death.

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    I suppose then, that you're grateful that God chose you over some other poor soul?
    If He had not chosen me, I would not have chosen Him. John 3:17-21 shows that no one in their fallen state would ever chose Him.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    Such logic has implications that contradict with scripture that clearly says that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the world, not just believers.
    Propitiation means God's wrath for sin has been appeased, satiated, satisfied. First off, it is God, not man, who has been propitiated, seeing He was the One offended. If His wrath has been appeased for everyone w/o exception, hello universalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    If salvation and the forgiveness of sin is available to all and all do not receive it, then who here is to blame? Has man rejected God, rejected the light or has God failed to draw them?
    How can salvation for all be available for all, when all will not have heard the gospel before they die?

    In a book by C. I. Scofield titled "Prophecy made plain"(my pastor loaned it to me a while back to read about dispy doctrine), he wrote that 800,000(~ 1900 AD) had not heard the gospel worldwide. And he was not reformed. Romans 10:17 says that faith comes from hearing the message, and this message is the message about Jesus Christ. So, if one dies never hearing the gospel, they died never having faith.
    Angela53510 likes this.
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    Thomas Cranmer

    "A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."

    Charles Spurgeon

    “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

    William Booth

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    How can salvation for all be available for all, when all will not have heard the gospel before they die?

    In a book by C. I. Scofield titled "Prophecy made plain"(my pastor loaned it to me a while back to read about dispy doctrine), he wrote that 800,000(~ 1900 AD) had not heard the gospel worldwide. And he was not reformed. Romans 10:17 says that faith comes from hearing the message, and this message is the message about Jesus Christ. So, if one dies never hearing the gospel, they died never having faith.
    This is revealed in Romans 1:19-20. God is able to reach every soul on the planet. At the time of the apostles they carried the gospel into the known world. Do not underestimate the ability of God to get His word into every part of the world.

    God is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Blanket statements often do not apply to Gods determinate will.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    This is revealed in Romans 1:19-20. God is able to reach every soul on the planet. At the time of the apostles they carried the gospel into the known world. Do not underestimate the ability of God to get His word into every part of the world.

    God is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Blanket statements often do not apply to Gods determinate will.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    Ppl who never heard of the Christ can seek God. Jesus is the only way to God.[John 14:6 & John 6:37-44 for starters]

    But faith comes by hearing the word.[Rom. 10:17] The context means those that come to saving faith, it is by hearing it from the mouth, or mouthes, of His ppl. 1 Cor 1:21 says God chose the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe. The gospel is the power of God to save both Jews and Gentiles.[Rom. 1:16] Those who believe the gospel message are sealed with the Holy Spirit.[Eph. 1:13]

    If not everyone hears the word of God before all died, then all can not have a 'chance' at being saved.

    When squeezed tight enough, many prove they're anti-Sola Scriptura.
    Angela53510 likes this.
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    Thomas Cranmer

    "A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."

    Charles Spurgeon

    “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

    William Booth

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    It was God's plan to use Judas to betray him, just as it was God's plan to use, and then destroy Pharaoh to get his people out of Egypt. No idea what this "author of sin" trip your on is about.

    Second request for your proof.
    This is as simple as I can make it. Does God predestine some people to hell?

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    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    This is as simple as I can make it. Does God predestine some people to hell?
    Truth is we or should I say "I don't know"
    But I would have to say no

    I find it hard that he does.
    But I think he knows you will accept Jesus and those who will not.
    Last edited by BillG; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:36 PM.
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    This is as simple as I can make it. Does God predestine some people to hell?
    No..........
    Angela53510, BillG and NoNameMcgee like this.
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    Thomas Cranmer

    "A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."

    Charles Spurgeon

    “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

    William Booth

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Ppl who never heard of the Christ can seek God. Jesus is the only way to God.[John 14:6 & John 6:37-44 for starters]

    But faith comes by hearing the word.[Rom. 10:17] The context means those that come to saving faith, it is by hearing it from the mouth, or mouthes, of His ppl. 1 Cor 1:21 says God chose the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe. The gospel is the power of God to save both Jews and Gentiles.[Rom. 1:16] Those who believe the gospel message are sealed with the Holy Spirit.[Eph. 1:13]

    If not everyone hears the word of God before all died, then all can not have a 'chance' at being saved.

    When squeezed tight enough, many prove they're anti-Sola Scriptura.
    Well then you must imagine that God is unable to do what He has purposed. God does not need to compromise but is quite capable of reaching every soul that seeks Him. Gods word does not need to be written on the pages of a bible. Gods word can come from the lips of a Christian or a simple piece of written material. Do you have any idea of how many radio stations broadcast bible teaching into third world countries? Christians have been broadcasting Gods word into or behind the iron curtain for many decades. Even China cannot keep the word of God out.

    None will stand before God and claim they never heard. Many religious folks will stand hand hear the fateful condemnation that they never knew Christ from a believing heart.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Well then you must imagine that God is unable to do what He has purposed. God does not need to compromise but is quite capable of reaching every soul that seeks Him. Gods word does not need to be written on the pages of a bible. Gods word can come from the lips of a Christian or a simple piece of written material. Do you have any idea of how many radio stations broadcast bible teaching into third world countries? Christians have been broadcasting Gods word into or behind the iron curtain for many decades. Even China cannot keep the word of God out.

    None will stand before God and claim they never heard. Many religious folks will stand hand hear the fateful condemnation that they never knew Christ from a believing heart.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    There are none who seek God. None. What I mean is in remote areas where ppl don't have radios, electric, TVs, &c. God is able, and will do all that He has purposed.
    "What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies."

    Thomas Cranmer

    "A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."

    Charles Spurgeon

    “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

    William Booth

  20. #60
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    There are none who seek God. None. What I mean is in remote areas where ppl don't have radios, electric, TVs, &c. God is able, and will do all that He has purposed.
    And yet Christ seeks and saves souls in places all over the world. Even in the most civilized parts of the world. For where sin did abound grace did much more abound.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    UnderGrace likes this.
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
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