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Thread: Scriptural support for Free Will

  1. #161
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    So then we do have a free will? You, yourself, just said God draws us but not against our wills. So then there must be a surrender of sorts, by your logic.
    He cannot relate effectual drawing to man having the responsibility to submit to Christ. Will not accept personal responsibility for his sin. He sees free will as unfettered liberty and that is where the disconnect occurs.

    Man is free to choose but not free to change the demands of God.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    peacefulbeliever and BenFTW like this.
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Senior Member BenFTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    He cannot relate effectual drawing to man having the responsibility to submit to Christ. Will not accept personal responsibility for his sin. He sees free will as unfettered liberty and that is where the disconnect occurs.

    Man is free to choose but not free to change the demands of God.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    It is as if someone gave an eloquent and articulate argument, convinced the opposition and then said, "You decide." His effectual drawing is indeed effectual, yet still must be decided upon. A person may know the facts, yet reject them.
    peacefulbeliever likes this.

  3. #163
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    It is as if someone gave an eloquent and articulate argument, convinced the opposition and then said, "You decide." His effectual drawing is indeed effectual, yet still must be decided upon. A person may know the facts, yet reject them.
    Much like Paul to Agrippa.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Are you claiming that the Samaritans were not of Jewish descent? She knew the prophecy of the promised Messiah.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    Samaritans are to Judaism what Catholics are to Christians.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  5. #165
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Samaritans are to Judaism what Catholics are to Christians.
    Religiously correct but according to DNA?

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  6. #166
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    They see His glory in His creation. Intelligent design. So, through observation. At least, some people convert this way, at the very least acknowledging that God exists. It may be time before they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, however.
    And right here ladies and gentlemen is a gospel-less salvation. They can know God exists through His creation and be saved that way. Wow. Just wow. No need of the preaching of the cross, eh?

    Apostle Paul has something for you view...

    I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse![Galatians 1:6-9]
    Angela53510 and garee like this.
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

  7. #167
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    They see His glory in His creation. Intelligent design. So, through observation. At least, some people convert this way, at the very least acknowledging that God exists. It may be time before they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, however.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.[1 Cor. 1:18-21]

    There is no salvation outside the preaching of the cross, He who hung upon it, who was resurrected from the dead and will come again. None. Ephesians 1:13 says And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

    In Romans 1, Paul is addressing those who see God in His creation, but turn to other gods, which are not gods at all. They suppress the truth in their unrighteousness. They see God, but worship things such as statues, animals, the moon, the stars, the sun, &c. Romans 1 is not an appeal to how ppl can be saved by natural revelation.

    You on an unsustainable path here. Get off of it.
    Angela53510 likes this.
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    So then we do have a free will? You, yourself, just said God draws us but not against our wills. So then there must be a surrender of sorts, by your logic.
    When God sets it free. If the Son sets you free, you are free indeed.[John 8:36] Until the Lord sets you free from the clutches of sin and Satan, even your will was in bondage. You are not stronger than Satan...nor was I. Only God can set us free to come to Him for salvation.

    Soli Deo Gloria
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

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    Senior Member Depleted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Religiously correct but according to DNA?

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    No, lovers of multiple gods thinking that's okay with the one and only God.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  10. #170
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    No, lovers of multiple gods thinking that's okay with the one and only God.
    Seems that was a continuing problem for Gods elect among the nations. They had the DNA but committed fornication with the religions round about them.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  11. #171
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Is anyone gonna confront BenFTW's gospel-less salvation besides me?
    preacher4truth likes this.
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

  12. #172
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    They see His glory in His creation. Intelligent design. So, through observation. At least, some people convert this way, at the very least acknowledging that God exists. It may be time before they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, however.
    https://carm.org/billy-graham

    "I think everybody that that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the body of Christ. And that's what God is doing today. He's calling people for 'eh, out of the the world for his name whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world uh they are members of the body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but uh they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have and they turn to the only light that they have. And I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven".

    From Billy Graham's own lips on Dr. Robert Schuller's 'Hour of Power' program. He gave Dr. Graham's statement a hearty amen, too. These were both mystics. Plain as the nose in your face, a mystic. And so are you and Roger.
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Seems that was a continuing problem for Gods elect among the nations. They had the DNA but committed fornication with the religions round about them.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    Our relationship with the Lord is never DNA. It's a legal act. We're either adopted or not.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Is anyone gonna confront BenFTW's gospel-less salvation besides me?
    Already did. He ignored, so that said enough. He's very good at ignoring everything but what he thinks.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  15. #175
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Already did. He ignored, so that said enough. He's very good at ignoring everything but what he thinks.
    Notice how they avoid this thread now that I showed their mystic beliefs and their gospel-less salvation? If God saves like they aver, then ppl are being saved w/o the gospel. Wow. Just plain wow. What a low view of scripture they hold to.
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

  16. #176
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    They see His glory in His creation. Intelligent design. So, through observation. At least, some people convert this way, at the very least acknowledging that God exists. It may be time before they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, however.
    I am still waiting on you to defend your gospel-less salvation, Ben. Care to chime in peacefulbeliever?
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

  17. #177
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    I am still waiting on you to defend your gospel-less salvation, Ben. Care to chime in peacefulbeliever?
    Scripture-less, truthless, Gospel-less. It isn't the Gospel, it's man's philosophy with a Romans 9:20 base.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


  18. #178
    Senior Member peacefulbeliever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    They see His glory in His creation. Intelligent design. So, through observation. At least, some people convert this way, at the very least acknowledging that God exists. It may be time before they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, however.
    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    I am still waiting on you to defend your gospel-less salvation, Ben. Care to chime in peacefulbeliever?
    I don't see where Ben said anything about salvation here. I do see where he said "at the very least acknowledging that God exists through the glory of His creation". (For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Rom. 1:20)] That is why I "liked" his post. Ben acknowledged that "it may be time before they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, however" - which would be through the gospel preached.
    BenFTW likes this.
    Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2
    Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Pro. 12:25
    Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Ps. 19:14
    The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps. 33:11
    We learn to walk spiritually the same way we learn to walk physically-by walking.

  19. #179
    Senior Member Angela53510's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    Is anyone gonna confront BenFTW's gospel-less salvation besides me?
    Sorry, I can’t help! I’ve had him on ignore a long time, after he blasted me by name, and was totally wrong about what I said. I don’t have the time of day for people who pretend they have the “love” gospel, and then lash out at people who think differently than they do. Did I mention judging? Not that I care, because I know who the judge is, and I am following him!

    Especially when they rarely use or know the Bible, because they have an experiential relationship with God, and therefore don’t need the Bible. They can make it up as they go along, thinking it is the Holy Spirit leading them, when in fact, it is clever demons leading them down the primrose path, and far from God.

    I hope that was a good enough confrontation without actually reading the post! LOL
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    "And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." 2 Cor. 12:9 NASB

  20. #180
    finaldesire
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    Free Will in the Bible

    Mt 23:37
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Mt 23:37). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Here we have God willing to gather Jerusalem like a hen gathers her brood but Jerusalem exercised free will and would not be gathered.

    Gen 3:22
    22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Ge 3:21–22). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Man was sinless and God willed that he not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil but man exercised free will and ate of the tree.



    Dt 30:19-20
    19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Dt 30:19–20). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Here God clearly gives Israel a choice.
    Say God gave us freewill, then what does that mean exactly, what is freewill good for in this case. Has it got something to do with choosing him, or heaven or hell? I don't understand the position freewill or non freewill gives. What if the case is different and we have a limited freewill, some choices we can make and others we can not.

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