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Thread: Scriptural support for Free Will

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    Default Scriptural support for Free Will

    Free Will in the Bible

    Mt 23:37
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Mt 23:37). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Here we have God willing to gather Jerusalem like a hen gathers her brood but Jerusalem exercised free will and would not be gathered.

    Gen 3:22
    22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Ge 3:21–22). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Man was sinless and God willed that he not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil but man exercised free will and ate of the tree.



    Dt 30:19-20
    19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Dt 30:19–20). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Here God clearly gives Israel a choice.
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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    in the Bible

    Mt 23:37
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    Here we have God willing to gather Jerusalem like a hen gathers her brood but Jerusalem exercised free will and would not be gathered.
    Gathered for what exactly, and if the city were gathered, what would it mean?
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    It started with the choice Adam and Eve made in the garden,
    due to the pride of life, lust of the eyes, and lust of the flesh,
    and it is still the same today, for we all inherit their nature.

    I prefer the term self will, though
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    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Gathered for what exactly, and if the city were gathered, what would it mean?
    Gathered for salvation, what else? Since Israel was already the chosen nation of God, according to Reformed Theology, every Israelite should have become one of the elect and been irresistibly saved. Instead, Israel (by and large) freely "elected" to reject Christ. So much for unconditional election.
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Gathered for what exactly, and if the city were gathered, what would it mean?
    From the preceding verses one thing would have them not persecute prophets. But I think it was more broad in that they should lead righteous lives.

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    Free Will in the Bible

    Mt 23:37
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Mt 23:37). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Here we have God willing to gather Jerusalem like a hen gathers her brood but Jerusalem exercised free will and would not be gathered.

    Gen 3:22
    22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Ge 3:21–22). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Man was sinless and God willed that he not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil but man exercised free will and ate of the tree.



    Dt 30:19-20
    19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Dt 30:19–20). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Here God clearly gives Israel a choice.
    All you've proved is Man choosing against God, or choosing after God already chose him.

    Where is the proof that Man has EVER "freely" willed himself right into God's grace?

    I can show you lots of proof that has never happened.

    But, you first!
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    All you've proved is Man choosing against God, or choosing after God already chose him.

    Where is the proof that Man has EVER "freely" willed himself right into God's grace?

    I can show you lots of proof that has never happened.

    But, you first!
    Do you believe God is the author of sin? Was it Judas' fault he betrayed Our Lord or was it God's fault?

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Get's some popcorn ready to watch this thread.........and a coke....

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Where is the proof that Man has EVER "freely" willed himself right into God's grace?
    Here's one example for starters, and the Bible is full of them. When the Gospel is preached with the power of the Holy Spirit behind it, then many respond to the Gospel freely -- not under compulsion.

    36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
    38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
    41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:36-41).
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Here's one example for starters, and the Bible is full of them. When the Gospel is preached with the power of the Holy Spirit behind it, then many respond to the Gospel freely -- not under compulsion.

    36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
    38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
    41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:36-41).
    You missed a spot.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Like the new birth changes a man so was Adam changed in the fall.

    Ge 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    Personal responsibility for sin is not escapable and must be settled before a holy and righteous God.

    Mans will must be submitted to Gods will for a man to be saved. To break the bondage of sin man must come to God and prostrate himself before the Holy One.

    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Why seek? Conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. John 16:8-11 If you have not come by that means you have not arrived.

    Man does will himself to be saved but surrenders his will to Gods will. The exact opposite of what the accusers contend.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    It started with the choice Adam and Eve made in the garden,
    due to the pride of life, lust of the eyes, and lust of the flesh,
    and it is still the same today, for we all inherit their nature.

    I prefer the term self will, though
    Yes we do inherit thier nature, unfortunitely it is not the image of God that they had before giving up their free will to become slaves to sin taking us with them.

    Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned”

    John 8:34
    Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.”

    Slaves do not have free wills, they take orders from their master, in this case sin is the master.
    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Senior Member Johnny_B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    Free Will in the Bible

    Mt 23:37
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Mt 23:37). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Here we have God willing to gather Jerusalem like a hen gathers her brood but Jerusalem exercised free will and would not be gathered.

    Gen 3:22
    22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Ge 3:21–22). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Man was sinless and God willed that he not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil but man exercised free will and ate of the tree.



    Dt 30:19-20
    19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.


    The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Dt 30:19–20). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Here God clearly gives Israel a choice.


    God gives all men a choice, but He does not grant life to all men John 6:63-65

    It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

    If the Father does not grant you life, the Spirit will not give it to you and your flesh or anything your flesh posses like a will, does not help in the Father granting life from the Spirit.

    The Lord is giving them the choice, that does not mean that they can make that choice, He is still giving man the choice.

    Acts 17:30
    “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,”

    Because the Lord is a righteous judge as well he must call all men to repent, that does not mean that they will repent. It is a command from the righteous judge of all men, He would be unrighteous if He did not call all men to repent then judge them for not repenting, the same goes for the Israelites. If you read the context it starts in verse 11 with
    For this commandment which I command you today” He is doing this because of what He has set forth with the judgement of turning away from Him.

    John 6:63, 65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    I Corinthians 4:7 "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"

    Born in the Spirit & word, granted by the Father. EE-TEOW




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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_B View Post
    You missed a spot.
    Not at all. Does the word "come" mean a call? And does "whosoever" mean anyone and everyone without exception?

    And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    I believe in predestination. That is when God predestines someone to persevere to the end. I do not believe in double predestination where the damned are sent hell because it was the will of God. This would make God the author of evil.
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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    From the preceding verses one thing would have them not persecute prophets. But I think it was more broad in that they should lead righteous lives.
    I see nothing in there about him wanting them to live righteous lives. Nothing in the context supports this. Obviously they refused attempts from the OT prophets to escape impending judgment -- that is the context.

    What does it mean that he wanted to gather them as a hen its chicks? What would that entail had they done this and gathered under his wings? Here is a hint; why would chicks hide under the wings of the mother hen?

    My questions are straight forward, contextual, so please reciprocate and answer the questions.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Not at all. Does the word "come" mean a call? And does "whosoever" mean anyone and everyone without exception?

    And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
    No, he nailed you, you missed it.

    You just don't like it. It's the epitome of the Romans 9:20 man on display in you. It is man censuring God.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    No, he nailed you, you missed it.

    You just don't like it. It's the epitome of the Romans 9:20 man on display in you. It is man censuring God.
    More nonsense from one who cannot use Scripture to refute what was shown. So once again, vicious personal attacks. Typical of the so-called "elect".
    1ofthem and UnderGrace like this.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    So once again, vicious personal attacks. Typical of the so-called "elect".
    LOL!!!!!!!! Vicious personal attack accusation coming from you? That is rather sanctimonious of you.

    Please show us where what I stated was an "attack." WAY over-used word.

    Did Paul attack you and your ilk when he described you in Romans 9:20?

    And yes, since I am saved, and believe all of Scripture including unconditional election, predestination to salvation, then yes, that would include me. All who are saved are elected unconditionally.

    Those who are not elect aren't saved.

    What is funny is that you love to bring charges against God's elect, Romans 8:33. But your charges are negated, thanks be to God.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Default Re: Scriptural support for Free Will

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    I see nothing in there about him wanting them to live righteous lives. Nothing in the context supports this. Obviously they refused attempts from the OT prophets to escape impending judgment -- that is the context.

    What does it mean that he wanted to gather them as a hen its chicks? What would that entail had they done this and gathered under his wings? Here is a hint; why would chicks hide under the wings of the mother hen?

    My questions are straight forward, contextual, so please reciprocate and answer the questions.
    From the beginning of chapter 23 Jesus is on a diatribe about the sins and hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees. I think Jesus
    is calling the people to righteousness. The gathering of the chicks is probably to protect them from sin. If you still think I am missing the mark tell me what you were hinting at.

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