Free Will 2
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If you're falling from the sky your death is inevitable its not much of an option to choose it. However it is definitely an option to pull and release your parachute, right? I think in similar terms scripture paints a picture of humanity without Christ as already being condemned and so salvation is an ultimatum of circumstance as opposed to simply choice. We are condemned without Christ with a definite end of condemnation, yet salvation is available to those that would repent. Hence, God draws and man responds thereby crediting God with the glory.
For those worried of someone boasting that they believed, keep in mind that it is impossible to please God without faith. Why would scripture share this information with us if faith itself wasn't something that came from us but was cultivated by God? For God to take pleasure and pride in His creation having faith, a faith that He himself supposedly gifted would be illogical. Rather, God brings conviction to the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement and through such conviction (and convincing, if you will) man responds to the facts. Is God a liar? No, so repent.
For those worried of someone boasting that they believed, keep in mind that it is impossible to please God without faith. Why would scripture share this information with us if faith itself wasn't something that came from us but was cultivated by God? For God to take pleasure and pride in His creation having faith, a faith that He himself supposedly gifted would be illogical. Rather, God brings conviction to the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement and through such conviction (and convincing, if you will) man responds to the facts. Is God a liar? No, so repent.
I think they want to teach that man can do nothing but sin. It is not a free will to sin but certain and unescapable outcome. They then reason that man can only sin and is capable of nothing good.
This then means that God wills for man to sin and God wills for men to be saved. Man is an inert object of Gods will.
Christ describe men as being evil but having the capacity to do good.
Mt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Sermon on the mount setting.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
This then means that God wills for man to sin and God wills for men to be saved. Man is an inert object of Gods will.
Christ describe men as being evil but having the capacity to do good.
Mt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Sermon on the mount setting.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Except they don't call it "free will to choose sin" but "bound will to do nothing but sin". The concept of Total Depravity is itself depraved, since it simply ignores two important facts: (1) that all human beings have a conscience and (2) many human being do right even though they are not saved. That may not be the righteousness that allows them access to Heaven, but God sees it as doing that which is according to the Law (the Ten Commandments).
You will never see or hear those committed to Total Depravity ever discuss the conscience of mankind nor the good deeds which are done by the unsaved. Because once they acknowledge these truths, they will have no choice except to reject the false doctrine of Total Depravity. Which would mean that TULIP would have to be rejected out of hand.
You will never see or hear those committed to Total Depravity ever discuss the conscience of mankind nor the good deeds which are done by the unsaved. Because once they acknowledge these truths, they will have no choice except to reject the false doctrine of Total Depravity. Which would mean that TULIP would have to be rejected out of hand.
N6 you have your own straw man of what Total Depravity is, then you take it apart, but the problem is that it is a straw amn of ypur own making. If you look at the post right above you notuptome has a better understanding of what TD is that you will ever have as long as you keep with what you think it is instead of finding out what it really means.
As posted above Matthew 7:11 “If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!”
Look at men around you, they can do good the doctrine of Total Depravity does not teach that man is incapable of doing good. If that were true we could not have doctors that save life daily or firemen, policemen, soldiers or EMT's to name a few, these [eople do good vevry day. The problem is that no man can do any good work to recieve the mercy or grace of God by any good work that they can do, that is Total Depravity. There is no work done in righteousness that can be rewarded by God's grace.
Titus 3:4-11 “But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.”
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I do not believe in free will meaning "free from all influences".
I know that we decide according to our inclinations or circumstances.
I believe in free will meaning that nobody (not even God) forces us to sin or to be good etc. But He can predestine you to everything He wishes by placing you to specific time and circumstances.
I know that we decide according to our inclinations or circumstances.
I believe in free will meaning that nobody (not even God) forces us to sin or to be good etc. But He can predestine you to everything He wishes by placing you to specific time and circumstances.
Johnny,
You are the one who does not know his own Reformed Doctrine. Please take a good hard look at this statement as contained in the Reformed Westminster Confession of Faith (chapter VI, section IV), and then come back and tender your apology:
IV. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good,and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.
The "original corruption" is a reference to the sin of Adam and the Fall of mankind.
Tossed this into the other thread for consideration......not making a statement just happed to use this today and figured it might have bearing on this thread as well
"Yet, the LORD, the God of Israel, chose me from all the house of my father to be king over Israel forever. For He has chosen Judah to be a leader; and in the house of Judah, my father's house, and among the sons of my father He took pleasure in me to make me king over all Israel. "Of all my sons (for the LORD has given me many sons), He has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel. "He said to me, 'Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.
"Yet, the LORD, the God of Israel, chose me from all the house of my father to be king over Israel forever. For He has chosen Judah to be a leader; and in the house of Judah, my father's house, and among the sons of my father He took pleasure in me to make me king over all Israel. "Of all my sons (for the LORD has given me many sons), He has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel. "He said to me, 'Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.
