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Thread: Has sin been paid for?

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    Default Has sin been paid for?

    Did Jesus Christ pay for sin of the whole world?
    Does he do it over and over and over again?
    Or did he pay the price of sin, once?



    Curious minds would like to know.


    I believe that Jesus Christ has paid for all sins, in the whole world once, even while we did not believe in Him.

    and when we came to Him He changed us from the angery old grumbling old fool we use to be, into someone who could possibly love God and Others...
    posthuman and joaniemarie like this.

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewG View Post
    Curious minds would like to know.

    While the answer should be straightforward from Scripture, there are many who have taken this basic truth and misrepresented it in different ways. So you might want to present your position on this clearly and see what the response is.

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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    [/CENTER]While the answer should be straightforward from Scripture, there are many who have taken this basic truth and misrepresented it in different ways. So you might want to present your position on this clearly and see what the response is.

    Look below friend.

    I believe that Jesus Christ has paid for all sins, in the whole world once, even while we did not believe in Him.

    and when we came to Him He changed us from the angery old grumbling old fool we use to be, into someone who could possibly love God and Others...

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    Senior Member Ahwatukee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewG View Post
    Look below friend.

    I believe that Jesus Christ has paid for all sins, in the whole world once, even while we did not believe in Him.

    and when we came to Him He changed us from the angery old grumbling old fool we use to be, into someone who could possibly love God and Others...
    Once again, you are correct in that, Jesus did pay the penalty for all sins. However, you are leaving the part of repentance out of the equation. Jesus did not shed His blood so that we could willfully continue to live according to the sinful nature. He requires repentance.
    Dan58, beta, Nehemiah6 and 1 others like this.
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs. Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Repentance is a change of mind.

    It's called I'm walking alone without God and JEsus Christ in my life.

    I turn around.

    Now I am walking with God and JEsus Christ in my life because I believe in them.

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    Senior Member Ahwatukee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewG View Post
    Repentance is a change of mind.

    It's called I'm walking alone without God and JEsus Christ in my life.

    I turn around.

    Now I am walking with God and JEsus Christ in my life because I believe in them.
    Yes, and turning around, having a change of mind, means repenting. Repentance is the change of heart.
    Nehemiah6 likes this.
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs. Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

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    Senior Member Ahwatukee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewG View Post
    Did Jesus Christ pay for sin of the whole world?
    Does he do it over and over and over again?
    Or did he pay the price of sin, once?



    Curious minds would like to know.


    I believe that Jesus Christ has paid for all sins, in the whole world once, even while we did not believe in Him.

    and when we came to Him He changed us from the angery old grumbling old fool we use to be, into someone who could possibly love God and Others...
    Yes, the Lord did pay the price for sin, but that does not give us carte blanche to continue living in the sinful nature. We need to Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs. Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    If He paid the debt for everybody's sins, then everybody will be saved.

    #HelloUniversalism
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

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    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    Repentance is the change of heart.

    A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    (Ezekiel 36:26)

    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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    Senior Member Lucy-Pevensie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewG View Post
    Look below friend.

    I believe that Jesus Christ has paid for all sins, in the whole world once, even while we did not believe in Him.

    and when we came to Him He changed us from the angery old grumbling old fool we use to be, into someone who could possibly love God and Others...
    He told the prostitute "your sins are forgiven you. Go and sin no more." We like the first part and have a tendency to forget the second bit. Sin no more. We have to at least TRY to cooperate with The Holy Spirit on that.

    Forgiveness is free (Praise him for his mercy!) but you actually have to be SORRY and repent for it to work.
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    Ezekiel 36
    *Then they will know that I am the Lord*




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    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post

    A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    (Ezekiel 36:26)

    I have heard some use this to mean that during the MK is when this takes place. If that is the case, then we are saved, yet w/o a new fleshly heart, but the old stony heart that can not love God.

    Oh the eisegesis employed by many...
    "There are two Christs in all of us who are saved."
    KJV1611

    "The Christ in me IS NOT the same Christ that's in someone who came to understand Christ a different way than I did."
    KJV1611


    "I don't have the same standard as you, I could care less what the originals say."
    KJV1611

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    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Has sin been paid for?

    And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
    (Hebrews 9:15)

    For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    (Romans 3:23-26)




    Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 629: ἀπολύτρωσις
    ἀπολύτρωσις, ἀπολυτρώσεως, (from ἀπολυτρόω signifying a. to redeem one by paying the price, cf. λύτρον: Plutarch, Pomp. 24; the Sept.Exodus 21:8; Zephaniah 3:1;b. to let one go free on receiving the price: Plato, legg. 11, p. 919a.; Polybius 22, 21, 8; (cf.) Diodorus 13, 24), "a releasing effected by payment of ransom; redemption, deliverance, liberation procured by the payment of a ransom";

    1. properly: πόλεων αἰχμαλώτων, Plutarch, Pomp. 24 (the only passage in secular writings where the word has as yet been noted; (add, Josephus, Antiquities 12, 2, 3; Diodorusfragment l. xxxvii. 5, 3, p. 149, 6 Dindorf; Philo, quod omn. prob. book § 17)).


    2. everywhere in the N. T. metaphorically, viz. deliverance effected through the death of Christ from the retributive wrath of a holy God and the merited penalty of sin: Romans 3:24; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14 (cf. ἐξαγοράζω,ἀγοράζω, λυτρόω, etc. (and Trench, § lxxvii.));

    ἀπολύτρωσιν τῶν ... παραβάσεων deliverance from the penalty of transgressions, effected through their expiation, Hebrews 9:15 (cf. Delitzsch at the passage and Fritzsche on Romans, vol. ii., p. 178);
    ἡμέρα ἀπολυτρώσεως, the last day, when consummate liberation is experienced from the sin still lingering even in the regenerate, and from all the ills and troubles of this life, Ephesians 4:30; in the same sense the word is apparently to be taken in 1 Corinthians 1:30 (where Christ himself is said to be redemption, i. e. the author of redemption, the one without whom we could have none), and is to be taken in the phrase
    ἀπολύτρωσιν τῆςπεριποιήσεως, Ephesians 1:14, the redemption which will come to his possession, or to the men who are God's own through Christ (cf. Meyer at the passage);
    τοῦ σώματος, deliverance of the body from frailty and mortality, Romans 8:23 (Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)); deliverance from the hatred and persecutions of enemies by the return of Christ from heaven, Luke 21:28, cf. Luke 18:7f; deliverance or release from torture, Hebrews 11:35.

    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    1 John 2:2 - and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahwatukee View Post
    Yes, and turning around, having a change of mind, means repenting. Repentance is the change of heart.
    Correct. Heart, mind, will, direction in life, purpose, motives, everything. When Saul the Persecutor became Paul the Preacher, that was a 180 degree change of everything in his life. From being a persecutor he became a persecuted one.

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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewG View Post
    Repentance is a change of mind.

    It's called I'm walking alone without God and JEsus Christ in my life.

    I turn around.

    Now I am walking with God and JEsus Christ in my life because I believe in them.
    AMEN....and to the believer----Where sin abounds, grace did abound the more........The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin because the HAVE NOT BELIEVED ON CHRIST.......SIN is dealt with differently in a believer as opposed to a lost man in the world........

    MANY who name Christ fail to understand this principle.....they try to equate sin in a believer to the loss of salvation and that is not the case at all....God only WHIPS SONS who are disobedient...He does not cast them away....once a son by birth always a son by birth..

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewG View Post
    Look below friend.

    I believe that Jesus Christ has paid for all sins, in the whole world once, even while we did not believe in Him.

    True enough. But the Calvinists deny that it was for the sins of the whole world and the Hyper Grace false teachers deny that after conversion Christians do not need to deal with their present sins as instructed in the Bible. Then there are those who claim that because all their sins were paid for they can live like the Devil. Then there are those who insist that the finished work of Christ was not really finished, or even if it was finished Christians need to add their works to the equation, or add water baptism to the equation, or circumcision, or something else such as all the sacraments. So unless all these errors are addressed at the same time, talking about the sin debt having been paid in full can be taken the wrong way.

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    Senior Member BenFTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    True enough. But the Calvinists deny that it was for the sins of the whole world and the Hyper Grace false teachers deny that after conversion Christians do not need to deal with their present sins as instructed in the Bible. Then there are those who claim that because all their sins were paid for they can live like the Devil. Then there are those who insist that the finished work of Christ was not really finished, or even if it was finished Christians need to add their works to the equation, or add water baptism to the equation, or circumcision, or something else such as all the sacraments. So unless all these errors are addressed at the same time, talking about the sin debt having been paid in full can be taken the wrong way.
    You often speak a lot of truth, but this is not such. One of the most famed "hyper grace" teachers has specifically said that they were "vehemently opposed to sin." You'll find that what they preach is that we have victory over sin under grace, so they by no means preach licentiousness (a license to sin).

    Repentance, they will tell you, is a renewing of the mind, growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Through such study, as the Holy Spirit reveals as our Teacher, we come to an understanding of who we are in Christ, that being dead to sin and alive unto God.

    I don't believe it is fair to define Hyper Grace teachers or believers as false teachers or antinomians. Teaching upon the grace of God is paramount to walking righteously and in harmony, or fellowship, with God. It breaks down these religious concepts of guilt and shame, with condemnation and allows us to enter into God's presence boldly, fully acknowledging what Christ paid for. Our reconciliation to God.

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    If He paid the debt for everybody's sins, then everybody will be saved.

    #HelloUniversalism
    Oh the rush to judgment.
    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    I have heard some use this to mean that during the MK is when this takes place. If that is the case, then we are saved, yet w/o a new fleshly heart, but the old stony heart that can not love God.

    Oh the eisegesis employed by many...
    Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Senior Member Musicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    You often speak a lot of truth, but this is not such. One of the most famed "hyper grace" teachers has specifically said that they were "vehemently opposed to sin." You'll find that what they preach is that we have victory over sin under grace, so they by no means preach licentiousness (a license to sin).

    Repentance, they will tell you, is a renewing of the mind, growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Through such study, as the Holy Spirit reveals as our Teacher, we come to an understanding of who we are in Christ, that being dead to sin and alive unto God.

    I don't believe it is fair to define Hyper Grace teachers or believers as false teachers or antinomians. Teaching upon the grace of God is paramount to walking righteously and in harmony, or fellowship, with God. It breaks down these religious concepts of guilt and shame, with condemnation and allows us to enter into God's presence boldly, fully acknowledging what Christ paid for. Our reconciliation to God.
    I wasn't aware of a 'hyper-grace' movement until I read it here on CC, but myself and several of my friends have noticed lately that there seems to be a lot of teaching and preaching that plants the seed that "sinning is ok, we're gonna sin anyway, we all sin, so don't worry about it, just repent when you do".

    I hear this message mostly from evangelists. To me it seems like an overzealousness to win over souls, stretching the truth to get them saved, make Christianity seem more palatable or something. They don't really leave out repentance, but they just kinda gloss over it, like it's not really that important, that it's ok even if you forget to ask forgiveness for the sin you did last night because it's covered anyway.

    I travel a lot in a music ministry, so I hear all kinds of preaching from many denominations, and this message seems to be all over the place. None of these preacher/teachers really come out and use the term 'hypergrace', but now that I look closer at it, they do have many similarities to what I'm learning about the 'hypergrace' movement.
    Chester likes this.

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    Default Re: Has sin been paid for?

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    If He paid the debt for everybody's sins, then everybody will be saved.

    #HelloUniversalism
    It's been paid for, but only applied to those who believe.
    seed_time_harvest likes this.

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