Brain teaser

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pottersclay

Guest
#1
#1
Hi saints, I've been giving this some thought and would like to know your thoughts on the matter.
Hope I can explain this as so that you can understand the question.

Scripture tells us that God knows the end from the beginning. It also says that Jesus is the alpha and omega.

My understanding is that the end is when the new earth and heaven is created after the white throne judgement and the 1000 yrs with Christ.
Where we shall be with the Lord forever.

Now here's the question.......although it will be new to us... Looking at it from our present state.....will it be new to God?

I ask this because eternity means no time.....so is this where God's for knowledge ends?

Remembering the sun and moon and stars are all gone, which were for time and seasons in the beginning..



Be nice . Be kind. Potter
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#2
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#2
The whole concept of the new heavens and earth is lost on literalists - how can there be months in eternity after the creation of the new heaven and earth:

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#3
#3
Locutus said:
The whole concept of the new heavens and earth is lost on literalists - how can there be months in eternity after the creation of the new heaven and earth:

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Click to expand...
.


And that saint was my second question....thank you :D
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#4
#4
So eternity seems to have a time thing...... scripture also tells us of leaves from a tree will bring healing to the nation's.

Why....what type of healing????
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#5
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#5
So you've got a riddle on your hands then.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#6
Jul 18, 2017
24,328
12,863
113
#6
pottersclay said:
Now here's the question.......although it will be new to us... Looking at it from our present state.....will it be new to God?
Click to expand...
Nothing can ever be "new" for God since He has known all things from the very beginning. And while time as we know it may not exist, there will certainly be a progression of events in eternity after the New Heavens and the New Earth are established. As to the complaint about why "months" should exist in that context, do we even know the half of how things will be at that time?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#7
Jul 18, 2017
24,328
12,863
113
#7
pottersclay said:
So eternity seems to have a time thing...... scripture also tells us of leaves from a tree will bring healing to the nation's.

Why....what type of healing????
Click to expand...
Such questions are best left unanswered. There's much to deal with things as they exist, particularly the necessity for the Gospel to be preached throughout the world.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#8
Jul 31, 2013
36,623
13,119
113
#8
pottersclay said:
Hi saints, I've been giving this some thought and would like to know your thoughts on the matter.
Hope I can explain this as so that you can understand the question.

Scripture tells us that God knows the end from the beginning. It also says that Jesus is the alpha and omega.

My understanding is that the end is when the new earth and heaven is created after the white throne judgement and the 1000 yrs with Christ.
Where we shall be with the Lord forever.

Now here's the question.......although it will be new to us... Looking at it from our present state.....will it be new to God?

I ask this because eternity means no time.....so is this where God's for knowledge ends?

Remembering the sun and moon and stars are all gone, which were for time and seasons in the beginning..



Be nice . Be kind. Potter
Click to expand...
the One who created time itself is not constrained by time itself. it's implied by omniscience that He is 'outside of time' because there is no time He does not know at any time. there is no time at which He does not know all times. He was, He is, He is yet to come, He is called "I AM" existing eternally. before time, I AM. after time, I AM. at all times, apart from all times

so i don't think "new" to Him is within the realm of possibility, if i understand what you mean by "new" correctly :)
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#9
Dec 20, 2017
9,261
5,618
113
#9
posthuman said:
the One who created time itself is not constrained by time itself. it's implied by omniscience that He is 'outside of time' because there is no time He does not know at any time. there is no time at which He does not know all times. He was, He is, He is yet to come, He is called "I AM" existing eternally. before time, I AM. after time, I AM. at all times, apart from all times

so i don't think "new" to Him is within the realm of possibility, if i understand what you mean by "new" correctly :)
Click to expand...
I agree with you about all of that and it's a fascinating subject. What are your thoughts [if any] regarding there being a silence in heaven for "about half an hour" as described by John in Revelation 8:1? I get the silence but am not quite sure what to make of the- about 'half hour' time description. It seems to be indicating that there is some sort if timey-wimey stuff in heaven. ;)
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#10
#10
And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

If there is no more curse then why would the leaves of the tree be for the healing of the nations? What nation's?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
#11
pottersclay said:
Hi saints, I've been giving this some thought and would like to know your thoughts on the matter.
Hope I can explain this as so that you can understand the question.

Scripture tells us that God knows the end from the beginning. It also says that Jesus is the alpha and omega.

My understanding is that the end is when the new earth and heaven is created after the white throne judgement and the 1000 yrs with Christ.
Where we shall be with the Lord forever.

Now here's the question.......although it will be new to us... Looking at it from our present state.....will it be new to God?

I ask this because eternity means no time.....so is this where God's for knowledge ends?

Remembering the sun and moon and stars are all gone, which were for time and seasons in the beginning..



Be nice . Be kind. Potter
Click to expand...
I'm sorry. Not getting this.

Jesus is the alpha and omega, and yet you think the end is something other than Jesus? It's a place, not Jesus?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#12
#12
posthuman said:
the One who created time itself is not constrained by time itself. it's implied by omniscience that He is 'outside of time' because there is no time He does not know at any time. there is no time at which He does not know all times. He was, He is, He is yet to come, He is called "I AM" existing eternally. before time, I AM. after time, I AM. at all times, apart from all times

so i don't think "new" to Him is within the realm of possibility, if i understand what you mean by "new" correctly :)
Click to expand...
Aceity! (New word learned from Max.)

Every single thing ever created is becoming. A rock is becoming sand. A sapling is becoming a plant. A pen is becoming used, then useless. We are becoming both better and more degenerated. (At least my bones are already degenerating.)

God is not that. God is being. He is not becoming! And without God being being, there would be no becoming. He was, is, will forever be, never changing. Truly the eternal I AM!

The Alpha and Omega but eternally!

So, yay! Amen!!!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#13
#13
pottersclay said:
And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

If there is no more curse then why would the leaves of the tree be for the healing of the nations? What nation's?
Click to expand...
Why is there a lamb sitting on a throne?

And why is it that you get that's really not a lamb, you don't get that's really not a tree?
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#14
Dec 20, 2017
9,261
5,618
113
#14
pottersclay said:
If there is no more curse then why would the leaves of the tree be for the healing of the nations? What nation's?
Click to expand...
We are the nations. The people. I'm rather looking forward to healing, lots and lots of healing! Hallelujah. The land will be restored as well as the people.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#15
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
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#15
If God knows what is going to happen in a billion years (from one point in eternity to another point, specifically a moment occurring and the time between the next moment) does He then look forward to what is to come? :p

When I say a moment in eternity, it would be equivalent to picking up a rock and then from that moment forward you have a starting point of time.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#16
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
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#16
A thought, if you are not constrained by time and live in eternity, does that mean God is experiencing us now from the future when we are in our glorified bodies? Or is He too waiting for that day?
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#17
#17
Depleted said:
I'm sorry. Not getting this.

Jesus is the alpha and omega, and yet you think the end is something other than Jesus? It's a place, not Jesus?
Click to expand...
First off I said no such thing......second I asked for people to be kind and nice
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#18
#18
Depleted said:
Why is there a lamb sitting on a throne?

And why is it that you get that's really not a lamb, you don't get that's really not a tree?
Click to expand...
Lynn stop derailing ....where and why was it said....why do you create drama???? Asked never implied....you have a habit of reading into something that's not there.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#19
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#19
Sometimes it is very difficult at best to grasp the infinite from a finite perspective.....all we know is based upon being bound by time...I noticed a reference to 30 minutes.....could this not be just as simple as John saying to us that in his mind the whole event took about 30 minutes in a similar matter when we do something and just simply say oh it took about xx minutes......the languages bear out that in God's mind this is all done already....he is in essence waiting on the constraint of time to fulfill his TIMING on all things that are to take place......Peter makes an interesting statement about HASTENING the day of the LORD or GOD...look that word up....I have viewed time a lot differently for the last few years and even some of the statements made by the men who penned the scriptures......as eternal beings we must attempt to view time from God's perspective......IMO.....the AGE of the AGES is what's coming.....and there is a world without end......a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH in the ALL AGE ENCOMPASSING KINGDOM of GOD..............INFINITE...........ETERNAL.........EVERLASTING.....where a day will be as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day.......time will be irrelevant.....!
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#20
#20
dcontroversal said:
Sometimes it is very difficult at best to grasp the infinite from a finite perspective.....all we know is based upon being bound by time...I noticed a reference to 30 minutes.....could this not be just as simple as John saying to us that in his mind the whole event took about 30 minutes in a similar matter when we do something and just simply say oh it took about xx minutes......the languages bear out that in God's mind this is all done already....he is in essence waiting on the constraint of time to fulfill his TIMING on all things that are to take place......Peter makes an interesting statement about HASTENING the day of the LORD or GOD...look that word up....I have viewed time a lot differently for the last few years and even some of the statements made by the men who penned the scriptures......as eternal beings we must attempt to view time from God's perspective......IMO.....the AGE of the AGES is what's coming.....and there is a world without end......a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH in the ALL AGE ENCOMPASSING KINGDOM of GOD..............INFINITE...........ETERNAL.........EVERLASTING.....where a day will be as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day.......time will be irrelevant.....!
Click to expand...
.

So if time is irrelevant...why is time discribe in the eternal. Are we then wrong to assume that eternal has no end?
What are your thoughts as to beginning and end.....alpha and omega......why is it called the end times?
 
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