ANIMAL SACRIFICES to resume FOR US in the future!

[BibleGuy]

Its not common sense but God's law as spiritual sense hid in parables.

The time of reformation has come it’s been two thousand years. The veil is rent. There will be no bleating of the sheep when he comes on the last day, the end of the world, the final resurrection.

I would think there is just as much a chance that Saul was acting appropriately bringing animals when God did not require it then.There will be no mending the veil and another outward demonstration of flesh that did not profit as if it was Spirit not seen as that which did profit..

God is not a man as us (impossible ) He has no beginning or end of Spirit life. .He is not a creation but the one and only faithful Creator .

1Sa 15:14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?

God is not a man as us. Never was never could be. Although some did know him who has no form after the flesh for approx 33 years when he left he informed us... we know him that way no more forever. He remains without mother and father beginning of Spirit life or end thereof. We are not saved by the flesh that again he said could never prophet but by the unseen Spirit of resurrection. No such thing as the corrupted flesh of holiness, we walk by the unseen eternal .Not that seen the temporal.

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

The veil is rent indicating Christ put on the temporal flesh for a one time demonstration of the work of the lamb of God who was slain from the standpoint of the foundation of the world .The six days he did work resting on His Sabbath ( a non time sensitive word) That Sabbath is limited to hearing His voice as it works in us to both will and give us the rest.

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Hello,

You wrote: "The time of reformation has come it’s been two thousand years. "

My response: No. The restitution of all things is yet FUTURE (Ac. 3:21) because Jesus is still in heaven.

And the restitution entails 100% Torah-obedience as prophesied by Moses (Dt. 30:1-8) when we again return to share in our inheritance (Gal. 3:29) in the promised land. This, in turn, entails FUTURE animal sacrifices.

You wrote: "There will be no bleating of the sheep when he comes on the last day, the end of the world, the final resurrection."

My response: What follows the Lord's coming (Zec. 14:4) ? SACRIFICES! (Zec. 14:21)

What does Jesus comes to restore? Levitical SACRIFICES (Mal. 3:1-4)

What does Jesus rebuild? The TEMPLE (Zec. 6).

What happens in the temple? Sacrifices!

Let's get back to the Bible...

regards...

 

[BibleGuy]

Some of my brothers and sisters need to brush up on history and put the Bible in proper context. How many of you actually know the answers to these questions?:

Who was Ezekiel?
When did he live?
Who was his audience?
What was going on with the Children of Israel at the time?

It's all about proper context. For those who cannot answer the above questions, Ezekiel was born prior to Israel's destruction and banishment to Babylon in the 6th century BC. He was active as a prophet before and during the Babylonian exile. The Book of Ezekiel was written while in captivity. Solomon's temple had been destroyed. Ezekiel was divinely told to speak to the Children of Israel, the following from Ezek 2:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And He said to me: “Son of man, I am sending you to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For they are impudent and stubborn children. I am sending you to them, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God.’ [SUP]5 [/SUP]As for them, whether they hear or whether they refuse—for they are a rebellious house—yet they will know that a prophet has been among them.

Thus the audience of Ezekiel were the exiled Children of Israel living in Babylon in the 6th century BC. He was writing to them and while there are things of edification in there for us, we in the 21st century AD were not the intended audience and I'm pretty certain, we were not on Ezekiel's mind.

So, in Ezek 40-48 when Ezekiel is shown a vision of a future temple, he was told specifically what?

"Declare to the house of Israel everything you see.”

Why should we suppose Ezekiel was to tell those alive in the 6th century BC about a future "millennial" temple some 2,600+ years into their future? What possible relevance would that have to them? Prior to Ezekiel chapter 40, does he declare anything about the 2nd temple, for which construction would actually start in many of their lifetimes? NO!! Wouldn't the 2nd temple be a little more important to them, back then? Of course it would.

So, what is Ezekiel talking about in 40-48? The key lies here in Chapter 43:

[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the pattern. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the temple and its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, its entire design and all its ordinances, all its forms and all its laws. Write it down in their sight, so that they may keep its whole design and all its ordinances, and perform them.

Were they ashamed of their iniquities? This vision was given in the 25th year of their captivity which was to last 70 years. They did not repent as Daniel 9 makes clear. Thus, they never got the massive temple described in Ezek 40-48, instead they were to get a much smaller, less grand temple which would still be the pride of Israel and the envy of the world.

There will be no more animal sacrifices people. God allowed a mosque to be built on the temple mount to prevent it and it has worked for nearly 1,400 years!! They can plan all they want.

Hello,

You wrote: "Were they ashamed of their iniquities? This vision was given in the 25th year of their captivity which was to last 70 years. They did not repent as Daniel 9 makes clear. Thus, they never got the massive temple described in Ezek 40-48..."

My response: Wrong.

Ezekiel GUARANTEES that Israel WILL BE ASHAMED (Eze. 16:61). This has not yet happened!

Therefore, Eze. 40-47 is YET FUTURE, pending the time (in the future!) when Israel is ashamed.

Therefore, the TEMPLE and SACRIFICES of Eze. 40-47 are yet future.

That's where your argument falls down.

Also, Mal. 3:1-4 is FUTURE.

Zec. 14 is FUTURE.

Zec. 6 is FUTURE.

Jer. 33 is FUTURE.

Dt. 30 is FUTURE.

Is. 66 is FUTURE.

These all entail FUTURE animal sacrifices.

Let's stop opposing the prophets.

Let's get back to Scripture.

regards...

 

[Ezekiel8]

Very true! (Da. 9)

And if an abominable antichrist desires to OPPOSE animal sacrifices, then why do some among us desire the same as the antichrist?

Just sayin....

Well I think for those in the modern West it is much the same as with the unbelieving jews, they don't really know what the Bible says, they more or less follow the traditions and doctrines of their fathers. Relating this slightly to the subject of the continued animal sacrifices of the unbelieving jews, you'll notice a lot of the criticism of the sacrifices isn't because the sacrifices are performed against the guidelines and teachings of the Torah, but rather the criticisms are mostly founded upon the more recent doctrines of Animal Rights.

Then a secondary reason is if you think about it most Westerners, whether they are Christians or infidels, are not even aware of the massive scope and scale of animal sacrifice in the present. So when one even tries to have a conversation about this topic, they think you're bringing something new, or re-introducing something that they think ended thousands of years ago because they are kept totally ignorant of the fact that it is still happening today, it never actually ended, in fact millions of animals will be sacrificed worldwide every year (and to be clear I do not mean slaughtered for food.)

In a way it is sort of a sharp irony. On one hand you have the unbelieving jews and various pagans that do animal sacrifices that are flagrantly against the Torah because they are ignorant of the Bible and they are conditioned on the teachings and traditions of their fathers. Then on the other hand you have the Gentiles that are totally against a resumption of the animal sacrifices in a manner which is sanctioned by the Torah and foretold in the Prophets because they are also ignorant of the Bible and they are also conditioned upon the teachings and traditions of their fathers.

In a way I think the deeper heart of the issue isn't so much the resuming of animal sacrifices, because frankly God doesn't need an animal sacrifice. I think the deeper heart of the issue is a restoration of Israel to God. So then if the issue is more on the restoration of Israel to God, then it is pretty easy to understand why as Israel moves closer to restoration with God that in the end times when the antichrist figures in Daniel rise up that they will seek to prevent or to break apart this restoration by many means from war, taking the sacrifices away, defiling the temple with the abomination which makes desolate, causing people to receive the mark of the beast, etc.

 

[7777pinacled]

Well I think for those in the modern West it is much the same as with the unbelieving jews, they don't really know what the Bible says, they more or less follow the traditions and doctrines of their fathers. Relating this slightly to the subject of the continued animal sacrifices of the unbelieving jews, you'll notice a lot of the criticism of the sacrifices isn't because the sacrifices are performed against the guidelines and teachings of the Torah, but rather the criticisms are mostly founded upon the more recent doctrines of Animal Rights.

Then a secondary reason is if you think about it most Westerners, whether they are Christians or infidels, are not even aware of the massive scope and scale of animal sacrifice in the present. So when one even tries to have a conversation about this topic, they think you're bringing something new, or re-introducing something that they think ended thousands of years ago because they are kept totally ignorant of the fact that it is still happening today, it never actually ended, in fact millions of animals will be sacrificed worldwide every year (and to be clear I do not mean slaughtered for food.)

In a way it is sort of a sharp irony. On one hand you have the unbelieving jews and various pagans that do animal sacrifices that are flagrantly against the Torah because they are ignorant of the Bible and they are conditioned on the teachings and traditions of their fathers. Then on the other hand you have the Gentiles that are totally against a resumption of the animal sacrifices in a manner which is sanctioned by the Torah and foretold in the Prophets because they are also ignorant of the Bible and they are also conditioned upon the teachings and traditions of their fathers.

In a way I think the deeper heart of the issue isn't so much the resuming of animal sacrifices, because frankly God doesn't need an animal sacrifice. I think the deeper heart of the issue is a restoration of Israel to God. So then if the issue is more on the restoration of Israel to God, then it is pretty easy to understand why as Israel moves closer to restoration with God that in the end times when the antichrist figures in Daniel rise up that they will seek to prevent or to break apart this restoration by many means from war, taking the sacrifices away, defiling the temple with the abomination which makes desolate, causing people to receive the mark of the beast, etc.

What?
Im sorry but there are so many confused individuals speaking as if they were given any Knowledge of the vision given to Yechezkel in prophecy of the Resurrected body of The Holy One of Yisrayl (Christ.


In fact the only thing discussed here is the lust to spill blood. And this is because they are without the gates and are incapable of seeing one foot in front of the other. Having no lamp to their feet they flail about as if someone were going to give them some aid in Understanding the mercy and justice that is reserved only for the Children of the Father of Lights.


Only the son of perdition desires to bring about the spilling of an animals blood in order to provoke the Lord to meet them in battle as has been foretold or prescribed.
No believer in The Holy One of Yisrayl is deceived by such nonsense from the servants of the beast.

 

[Ezekiel8]

What?
Im sorry but there are so many confused individuals speaking as if they were given any Knowledge of the vision given to Yechezkel in prophecy of the Resurrected body of The Holy One of Yisrayl (Christ.


In fact the only thing discussed here is the lust to spill blood. And this is because they are without the gates and are incapable of seeing one foot in front of the other. Having no lamp to their feet they flail about as if someone were going to give them some aid in Understanding the mercy and justice that is reserved only for the Children of the Father of Lights.


Only the son of perdition desires to bring about the spilling of an animals blood in order to provoke the Lord to meet them in battle as has been foretold or prescribed.
No believer in The Holy One of Yisrayl is deceived by such nonsense from the servants of the beast.

Well I am responding to the fellow's question pertaining to the book of Daniel in which it says rather clearly in Daniel 11:31 that the one whom is popularly called the antichrist will pollute the sanctuary, take away the sacrifices, and set up the abomination which makes desolate.

Though as for the prophet Ezekiel, this reminds of something which was called to my mind when this topic began. I see a lot of mention of Ezekiel chapters 40-47, but I find curious Ezekiel chapter 39 in which the prophet says that the Gentiles will be called forth to the mountains of Israel and they will be sacrificed upon the mountains of Israel to the beasts and the birds and the animals shall eat the flesh of the mighty and drink the blood of their princes until they are drunk. Very interesting sort of role reversal, but perhaps one for another topic.

 

[7777pinacled]

Well I am responding to the fellow's question pertaining to the book of Daniel in which it says rather clearly in Daniel 11:31 that the one whom is popularly called the antichrist will pollute the sanctuary, take away the sacrifices, and set up the abomination which makes desolate.

Though as for the prophet Ezekiel, this reminds of something which was called to my mind when this topic began. I see a lot of mention of Ezekiel chapters 40-47, but I find curious Ezekiel chapter 39 in which the prophet says that the Gentiles will be called forth to the mountains of Israel and they will be sacrificed upon the mountains of Israel to the beasts and the birds and the animals shall eat the flesh of the mighty and drink the blood of their princes until they are drunk. Very interesting sort of role reversal, but perhaps one for another topic.

yes, ive heard of the the beast of the earth. the torahless (lawless) one one.


For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
matt 16

And the king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give me the souls, and the possessions take for yourself."
And Abram said to the king of Sodom, "I raise my hand to the Lord, the Most High God, Who possesses heaven and earth. Neither from a thread to a shoe strap, nor will I take from whatever is yours, that you should not say, 'I have made Abram wealthy.'

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

And David blessed the Lord before the eyes of the entire assembly, and David said,
"Blessed are You, the God of Israel our Father, from everlasting to everlasting.
Yours, O Lord, are the greatness, and the might, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and on the earth [is Yours]; Yours is the kingdom and [You are He] Who is exalted over everything as the Leader.

17"For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.​

Jesus answered,
“Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”…

24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”




Ten Horns to speak blasphemy against the Most High.
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

They will seek the Death of the Cross but will not find it.
strength in forgiveness
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that Understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

The two witnesses of a covenant.
the Torah(law) and the Prophets
]When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the abyss will wage war with them, and will overpower and kill them.



And what is the desire of a woman?
And to your husband will be your desire


But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces
…The mouth of the righteous is a fountain of life, But the mouth of the wicked conceals violence.(to spill blood) Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions. On the lips of the discerning, wisdom is found, But a rod is for the back of him who lacks Understanding.…​

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Since NONE of the animal sacrifices pre Christ EVER removed a SINGLE sin, but was instead intended to be a model of the ONLY Sacrifice that could take away sin, why is it so outlandish to believe that millennial animal sacrifices are performed to COMMEMORATE the ONLY Sacrifice that takes away sin?

So God will take the life of an animal simply for a commemoration? This would be bizarre. Slaughter one of His creatures for a commemoration. Not only were they subjected to all the futility, but now they're stage props for a commemoration? I don't know penned, it doesn't sound like God to me...

 

[Ezekiel8]

yes, ive heard of the the beast of the earth. the torahless (lawless) one one.


For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
matt 16

And the king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give me the souls, and the possessions take for yourself."
And Abram said to the king of Sodom, "I raise my hand to the Lord, the Most High God, Who possesses heaven and earth. Neither from a thread to a shoe strap, nor will I take from whatever is yours, that you should not say, 'I have made Abram wealthy.'

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

And David blessed the Lord before the eyes of the entire assembly, and David said,
"Blessed are You, the God of Israel our Father, from everlasting to everlasting.
Yours, O Lord, are the greatness, and the might, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and on the earth [is Yours]; Yours is the kingdom and [You are He] Who is exalted over everything as the Leader.

17"For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.​

Jesus answered,
“Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”…

24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”




Ten Horns to speak blasphemy against the Most High.
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

They will seek the Death of the Cross but will not find it.
strength in forgiveness
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that Understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

The two witnesses of a covenant.
the Torah(law) and the Prophets
]When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the abyss will wage war with them, and will overpower and kill them.



And what is the desire of a woman?
And to your husband will be your desire


But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces
…The mouth of the righteous is a fountain of life, But the mouth of the wicked conceals violence.(to spill blood) Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions. On the lips of the discerning, wisdom is found, But a rod is for the back of him who lacks Understanding.…​

Well I think this post is more or less about the one popularly called antichrist, and those aren't too bad a thoughts to that subject. So then I guess you should know what I am talking about in my response to Mr. BibleGuy's question as it pertains to the one popularly called antichrist taking away the sacrifices, why many people oppose sacrifices, and why some perform the sacrifices still, but not in a manner which is in accordance to the Torah or the Prophets.

 

[LibrarianLeo]

Well I think this post is more or less about the one popularly called antichrist, and those aren't too bad a thoughts to that subject. So then I guess you should know what I am talking about in my response to Mr. BibleGuy's question as it pertains to the one popularly called antichrist taking away the sacrifices, why many people oppose sacrifices, and why some perform the sacrifices still, but not in a manner which is in accordance to the Torah or the Prophets.

In modern times I let McDonalds do the work and I just eat the burgers.
Like many, I avoid the McRibs.

 

[7777pinacled]

In modern times I let McDonalds do the work and I just eat the burgers.
Like many, I avoid the McRibs.

was that a pun?
, you gotta a chuckle out of me.

 

[7777pinacled]

Well I think this post is more or less about the one popularly called antichrist, and those aren't too bad a thoughts to that subject. So then I guess you should know what I am talking about in my response to Mr. BibleGuy's question as it pertains to the one popularly called antichrist taking away the sacrifices, why many people oppose sacrifices, and why some perform the sacrifices still, but not in a manner which is in accordance to the Torah or the Prophets.

the beast of the earth is the antichrist, the desolate one.
three times dead soil.

elementary really.
pun,?

 

[Ezekiel8]

the beast of the earth is the antichrist, the desolate one.
three times dead soil.

elementary really.
pun,?

Yes, I am pretty well aware of that all ready.

 

[7777pinacled]

Yes, I am pretty well aware of that all ready.

i imagine many believers are also aware.

The convoluded nonsense strewn about like some disinformation campaign has been destroyed even by unbelievers who hear the Truth.
The brazeness of all those who took on the mantle of deceit concerning the Word through the prophets and thought to gainsay with fictionally devised fables to gain worldly wealth have taken the bribe and forfeited their inheritance.
The inkhorn has already gone through the Land.

So, now is the time to address the violence being incited by the corrupted leaders of certain countries who thought to forsake our Good Lords blessings to be passed down to the children.
the plateau of corruption has been revealed in the stillness of the Believers in the Holy One.
And the axe is at the roots of what remains to be destroyed.

 

[Ezekiel8]

In modern times I let McDonalds do the work and I just eat the burgers.
Like many, I avoid the McRibs.

Well an animal sacrifice is not the same as the slaughter of animals for food. The sacrificed animal can be eaten for food in some circumstances, but this is not the main purpose for why people sacrifice animals.

I suppose it might be helpful to understand the difference between sacrifice and slaughter for food and reasons why animals are sacrificed both in the Bible and by the pagans.

The main difference is animals slaughtered for food are done just for the sole purpose of killing the animal to harvest it for food. Animal sacrifice is done in a religious manner for various religious reasons.

The main points of sacrificing animals are:

1. As an offering, commemoration, payment of a vow, a thanksgiving, or praise to God in the biblical sense or various other forces of nature or spirits in the pagan sense.
For examples: The sacrifice offered by Abel. The massive animal sacrifice performed by King Solomon in commemorating the first temple, the guidelines of the thanksgiving offering laid out in Leviticus, etc.

In the pagan sense; the hindus perform some of the biggest modern animal sacrifices to ritually act out and memorialize the acts of their various demons, for example in the festival to their chief demoness they sacrifice several cattle, typically buffalo, to commemorate the legend that their demoness slew an asura whom took the guise of a cattle.

2. For atonement of sins or purposes of cleansing oneself or a building or a nation.
For example: When King David offered animal sacrifices on the threshing floor of Ornan to atone and stay the plague which broke out for him numbering the people. The various codes of sin offerings in Leviticus

In the pagan sense; The unbelieving jews every year on the day before Yom Kippur perform an animal sacrifice of chickens (traditionally a rooster) and this is called kapparot (literally atonement) in which they swing a rooster three times over their heads and recite a prayer along the lines of "I offer this rooster in place of my sins. The rooster will go to his death while I enter in to a long and prosperous life." The chickens are then ritually sacrificed later that day. This is the main ritual of the unbelieving jews to which I am talking with in my personal exchange with BibleGuy. Believe it or not, this takes place in America every single year and it is totally legal under American law.

3. To invoke God or a spirit or a force of nature for the purpose of gaining a blessing, a cursing, or a portent.
For example: Elijah offering the sacrifice to God in the test of Baal to prove that our God exists and will answer by fire. The first Passover sacrifice made in Egypt so that the Angel of Death would pass over the houses of Israel 9and of course the Passover sacrifice and ritual would later move into being a memorial type sacrifice in memorial that God spared the firstborn of Israel and smote the Egyptians and led Israel out of Egypt with power and might.) Balaam the wicked man attempting to cast an enchantment by offering the sacrifices to invoke God to attempt to curse Israel.

In the pagan sense this is probably the most common sacrifice of the pagans which people think of in the context of pagan animal sacrifice. Some examples are in ancient China Zhuge Liang offered sacrifices to invoke the winds to win a naval battle. In ancient Babylon, Greece, and Persia and many other places it was fairly common to sacrifice an animal to various "gods" in order to read its liver which they believed contained omens portending the fate of battles. In the religions of Santeria and Voodoo it is common to sacrifice an animal to various spirits in order to gain blessings for oneself or cursings against one's enemies, and interestingly to note this case of animal sacrifice in Santeria is the main basis for the Supreme Court case (Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah) which in effect legalized the kapparot ritual of the unbelieving jews in America as previous mentioned.

 

[Ezekiel8]

i imagine many believers are also aware.

The convoluded nonsense strewn about like some disinformation campaign has been destroyed even by unbelievers who hear the Truth.
The brazeness of all those who took on the mantle of deceit concerning the Word through the prophets and thought to gainsay with fictionally devised fables to gain worldly wealth have taken the bribe and forfeited their inheritance.
The inkhorn has already gone through the Land.

So, now is the time to address the violence being incited by the corrupted leaders of certain countries who thought to forsake our Good Lords blessings to be passed down to the children.
the plateau of corruption has been revealed in the stillness of the Believers in the Holy One.
And the axe is at the roots of what remains to be destroyed.

I think you seem to me that you are restless, but everything will come in the time to which it has been appointed and to the place of its appointment and all for the glory of the Lord God.

 

[BibleGuy]

Oh the self centered interpretations of dispensationalists. I think PlainWord (who beat me to the context) showed very clearly why the temple envisioned was not built after the Babylonian exiles returned home. They did rebuild their temple, second after the Great Temple of Solomon, followed by the third temple of King Herod.

The Second temple was in Israel after the exile, anything else is absolutely false, by any standard.

Further, Exekiel is an EXTREMELY difficult book to interpret. It is full of visions, metaphors which still do not make much sense. The wheel within the wheel? What is that? I am just starting Exekiel, with a commentary in hand, wondering again at so much of it. Yet, I am sure the exiles, to whom the book was written, asked Ezekiel and understood what he was saying. And it certainly wasn’t about a large second temple. The second temple was built, by Nehemiah and Ezra, and it was a shadow of the glory of Solomon’s Temple.

As far as this nonsense about the separation between physical Israel and the church, just no! Have we not been grafted into Israel? We were grafted into Israel, and hence all the promises of God. Then, Israel is grafted back into the church. This metaphor shows us ONE CHURCH, ONE BODY, ONE LORD - Jesus Christ!

”But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[b] of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.” Romans 11:17-24

So, clearly, Gentiles were the wild olive tree. As branches, we were grafted onto the cultivated olive tree, and we receive our nourishment from the “root.” Then only person I know who is called a “root” is Jesus Christ.

“I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.” Rev. 22:16

Jesus is the root, and source of our nourishment. But getting back to Romans 11. So, God “did not spare the natural branches!” (V 21). The natural branches were Israel. They were broken off, but then, when they do not continue in their unbelief (in Jesus as Messiah) they are grafted back in. Are they grafted back into their own tree, or grafted back into Jesus, who is the head of the church?

“For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.” V 24

So, there is only one tree, and that is Jesus Christ. All believers are part of his tree, we are all grafted back in. No separated Israel and Church. It is just so simple, but you are blinded by wrong teaching, and you cannot see the truth of what the Bible says -

“For just as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body—though many—are one body, so too is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether Jews or Greeks or slaves or free, we were all made to drink of the one Spirit.” 1 Cor. 12:12

ONE body, whether Jews or Greek! That is the simple truth, which you are blinded to by this false dispensational lie. Or as my historical premillennial NT prof used to say, “No plan B for the Jews!”

Hi Angela,

Lot's of good points there...thank you!

You wrote: "The Second temple was in Israel after the exile, anything else is absolutely false, by any standard."

My response: Sounds like you oppose the legitimacy of any future rebuilt temple, right?

Well, Jesus comes to rebuild the temple (Zec. 6). That will not be an "absolutely false" standard.

Jesus will restore the sacrifices performed by the Levites (Mal. 3:1-4), in fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant (Jer. 33).

The restored temple and sacrifices of the future include details outlined in Eze. 40-47.

Dt. 30:1-8 GUARANTEES future 100% Torah-obedience (which, of course, entails animals sacrifices).

CONCLUSION: The future holds (for us) a temple and animal sacrifices.

You wrote: "We were grafted into Israel, and hence all the promises of God. "

My response: Indeed! AND, God PROMISED (through the prophet Moses) that we ISRAELITES shall return to share in the inheritance of the land in obedience to ALL Torah (Dt. 30:1-8), which of course entails future animal sacrifices in which we shall participate.

We look forward to this promise of God!

You wrote: "Then only person I know who is called a “root” is Jesus Christ."

My response: And that very "root" is the "branch" (Is. 11:1) who shall rebuild the temple (Zec. 6).

And what happens in the temple? Sacrifices!

You wrote: "ONE body, whether Jews or Greek!"

My response: Yes indeed! One ISRAELITE body. Thus, we Christians ALL partake in the covenants between God and ISRAEL.

AND, we grow in faithful obedience to the TORAH of these covenants in which we partake by faith.

AND, the Torah of these covenants entails animal sacrifices, when properly performed.

AND, the prophets (Dt. 30; Jer. 33; Eze. 40-47; Mal. 3; Is. 66: Zec. 6; Zec. 14) guarantee that these sacrifices will be properly performed in the future.

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

The veil is rent. The time of refomation had come .The temple and its finishing as a parable was used for the time then present.It as a parable announced the gospel of Christ in respect to His
suffering beforehand .

we receive the end of salvation as a work of His faith just as did the old testament saints . Shadows never become the spiritual unseen substance hid in parables .

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1Pe 1:9

The glory that should follow.. the graves where open the first resurrection. the last resurrection will be on the last day.The day the new incorruptible, heavens and earth appear .

There will be no bleating of sheep the shadows became sight at the time of refomation. The promise was one demonstration not two or three .The Antichrists that walk after the literal search for another outward demonstration. The veil will not be mended. .

1Samuel 15:14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?

Hello,

You wrote: "The time of refomation had come "

My response: No. The time of the restitution of all things is yet FUTURE (Ac. 3:21), because Jesus is still in heaven.

And what does Jesus return to do? RESTORE Levitical sacrifices! (Mal. 3:1-4) in a rebuilt TEMPLE (Zec. 6).

In fact, after the Lord returns (Zec. 14:4) there will be a GLOBAL command to participate in the sacrifice-laden feast of Sukkot (Zec. 14:16-21).

You wrote: "There will be no bleating of sheep the shadows became sight at the time of refomation."

My response: Zec. 14 and Mal. 3 and Jer. 33 disconfirm your claim.

regards...

 

[BibleGuy]

Chop, chop, get at it man - off with you to Israel to sacrifice at the ruins of the temple....

And the plague of DROUGHT to you (Zec. 14:17-21) if you reside in a nation which refuses to participate in what the Messiah shall reinstitute in the temple HE will rebuild (Zec. 6; Eze. 40-47) when HE restores the sacrifices to be performed by the Levites (Mal. 3:1-4) in fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant (Jer. 33).

Yikes!

Let's not oppose what the Messiah comes to restore.

regards...

 

[BibleGuy]

It would take me a year of study to review and research all of your 12 arguments so I will not be offering an opinion today or in the future. I have no intention whatsoever of ever participating in animal sacrifice as Jesus already has sacrificed His life by dying on the cross for my sins. I'm not saying that your analysis is neither right or wrong but it's not a subject of interest to me.

Hello,

Yes, there may be much more important things for you to be doing right now, rather than researching this topic.

I understand.

However, just keep this in mind: Jesus is a whole lot more Jewish and Torah-obedient than many of us Christians realize right now.

regards...

 

[BibleGuy]

I'm not sure what others have stated but
No way..
The reason for the sacrifices and the ceremonies where to point to Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.
It is Good for us to study them and understand the meaning behind them so that we can come closer to the process that is happening for us now.
But to start offering a sacrifice for our sins when Jesus is that Sacrifice would be to not acknowledge what Jesus has done and fail to accept what Jesus has done.

The veil was torn in two.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Heb_10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb_10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb_10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

So the prophets were just joking in regards to the future predictions of a temple and animal sacrifices? (Jer. 33; Zec. 14; Mal. 3; Zec. 6; Is. 66; Dt. 30; Eze. 40-47)

No way..

The prophets are not false prophets.

Their prophecies SHALL come to pass.

And, 2 Th 2 and Heb. 10 is consistent with those prophets.

For example, 2 Th. 2:10 says we should love the truth? Great! The Prophecies are TRUE which guarantee future sacrifices (Jer. 33; Zec. 14; Mal. 3; Zec. 6; Is. 66; Dt. 30; Eze. 40-47).

So let's stop opposing the TRUTH of the prophets.

And, I never said that the restored sacrifices "take away sins".

So, Heb. 10 is not inconsistent with my position.

To the contrary, Heb. 10 CONFIRMS my position!

Why? Because it states that the New Covenant entails TORAH (Heb. 10:16) written upon our hearts, so that we will obey it.

And what does Torah entail?

ANIMAL SACRIFICES!

Therefore, Heb. 10 AFFIRMS that animal sacrifices are consistent with the New Covenant.

Thus, Paul CONDONED sacrificial activity (Ac. 21).

Paul's four associates CONDONED sacrificial activity (Ac. 21).

Paul and his associates USED sacrificial activity (in conjunction with a vow) to make a public declaration that Paul walks "orderly, according to the Torah" (Ac. 21), which of course, entails that Paul upholds Torah-sanctioned animal sacrifices.

We should imitate Paul (1 Cor. 11:1) and likewise condone such activity.

And, thousands of 1st century disciples were zealous for Torah (Ac. 21) which, of course, entails animal sacrifices.

And, animal-sacrificing priests were DISCIPLES (Ac. 6), so there's SURELY not a problem with animal sacrifices during the New Covenant era.

Let's stop pitting one passage of Scripture against another.

We need a CONSISTENT Biblical interpretation which accounts for all available information.

When you set Heb. 10 or 2 Th. 2 against the prophets, you've merely (and needlessly!) set forth an alleged Biblical contradiction.

Let's get back to Scripture...ALL Scripture (2 Ti. 3:16) which, of course, entails animal sacrifices when properly performed.

regards...