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Thread: It's the thought that counts?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    WHEN I see the BLOOD (not water) I WILL PASS OVER YOU............
    Yes water like blood is used in ceremonies to represent that not seen, the Spirit life Christ poured out in jeopardy of His own Spirit life. .Scriptures refers to that metaphor as drinking the blood.

    While the life of the flesh is in the blood that life is unseen spirit. Literal flesh and blood could never enter the kingdom of God. Both water and blood as that seen as the temporal point to the unseen eternal .

    We simply need the right prescription for the eyes of our hearts to see past the corruption.

    2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

  2. #22


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    You do not have a point only a doctrinal error.

    The Holy Spirit cut them to the heart that they would repent and receive Christ. This would give them the gift of the Holy Spirit in their heart.

    You have yet to address Acts 8.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The Holy Spirit cut them to the heart that they would repent and receive Christ. This would give them the gift of the Holy Spirit in their heart
    Regardless of who cut them to the heart they still had to repent and be water baptized to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and so that their sins were to be forgiven. You are fighting both the Word of God and simple english composition.

    On Acts 8, what is the issue? Then he continued on his way "full of joy" after he was baptized in water not before.

  3. #23


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    AMEN....he that BELIEVES on the SON is not condemned.........

    and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

    In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    As usual, you are labeling a generality as a definitive. A childish mentality you would never use in other circumstances. Never.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    As usual, you are labeling a generality as a definitive. A childish mentality you would never use in other circumstances. Never.
    get over yourself and the idiotic responses....I quoted three scriptures....deal with it....baptism in water does not save a flea....much less a man....
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    WHEN I see the BLOOD (not water) I WILL PASS OVER YOU............
    Without the obedient act of spreading the blood there would be no PASSING OVER................

    This is what you are spiritually blind to. You have swallowed the false narrative of faith alone regeneration theology and so speak of events to happen without seeing that which must come before. Could God have spread the blood Himself and PASS OVER them, of course.

    But did He? No.

    Would having faith alone in the blood save them, of course not. The act of spreading the blood was necessary but was not the cause of the the PASSING OVER.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Dan58's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    I don't think you can conflate baptism with forgiveness. Forgiveness is given to every repentant believer. Baptism is the next step, a deeper expression and commitment of a believer to be born from above, and begin living for the everlasting spiritual things while turning from our satisfaction of our mere temporal existence. Its symbolic of a new birth into the kingdom of God, and a persons dedication to be obedient. Baptism is not being washed from sin, no ceremonial observance could accomplish that. The remission of sin came at Calvary, we were all washed in the blood of the lamb, not in the river Jordan

  7. #27
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Biblically speaking, is the act of obedience truly necessary or is the intent to obey sufficient? I ask this question because of the many excuses that are thrown up as reasons why the act of baptism itself cannot be necessary for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). Are excuses such as:

    a. Too weak to leave bed
    b. In desert
    c. Water too cold
    d. Dies on way to be baptized
    e. Astronaut in space
    f. Afraid of water (aquaphobia)
    g. Just got hair done
    h. thinking its a work of merit

    legitimate reasons against baptism being the point of the forgiveness of sins?


    All who believe on Jesus are (will be) saved. Jesus does the baptizing with the Holy Spirit at the time of Salvation. Water baptism is a symbolic act of obedience and a testimony to forgiveness that has already taken place.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Without the obedient act of spreading the blood there would be no PASSING OVER................

    This is what you are spiritually blind to. You have swallowed the false narrative of faith alone regeneration theology and so speak of events to happen without seeing that which must come before. Could God have spread the blood Himself and PASS OVER them, of course.

    But did He? No.

    Would having faith alone in the blood save them, of course not. The act of spreading the blood was necessary but was not the cause of the the PASSING OVER.
    Do you apply the blood by faith or does HE.....wake up....and being flippant in your responses does not prove your case.....the Passover was in SEEING THE BLOOD.....THE FAITH was SEEN IN APPLYING THE BLOOD.....

    BY FAITH the BLOOD and IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS of the BLOOD is APPLIED...BY JESUS not US.......wow...you have a lot to learn pelican....
    Dan58, Budman and BillG like this.

  9. #29


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    get over yourself and the idiotic responses....I quoted three scriptures....deal with it....baptism in water does not save a flea....much less a man....
    get over yourself and the idiotic responses..
    My response is quite accurate on the issue of your mentality towards this subject. You would never think this way toward other subjects like you are to this one.

    I quoted three scriptures....deal with it.
    Satan quoted scriptures....deal with it. He also used them in the same way you are, turning a general statement into a definitive event (Luke 4).

    baptism in water does not save a flea....much less a man....
    "this symbol points to baptism, which now saves you (1st Peter 3:21).

    Salvation is not based on generalities but obedience to the Gospel of Christ.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Laish's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    As usual, you are labeling a generality as a definitive. A childish mentality you would never use in other circumstances. Never.
    DJ2
    I would like you to consider your own behavior. You are complaining about the way folks are responding to the thread you started. When it is you that that launched an opening salvo on the belief of faith alone that saves by referring to it as “the thought that counts” . The little catch phrase is just a way you elevate your argument while degrading others . You are the one who should grow up . If you want a reasonable discussion stop with the quips . Set your argument then ask for a response. Bingo then you have a better chance for a civil conversation. Unless that was not your intention to start with?
    Blessings
    Bill
    God's Grace is sufficient.

    God wants full custody of your children.
    Not just weekend visits.

    We are entertaining the goats while we should be feeding the sheep.
    Charles Spurgeon

    I realized today that the only thing flat-earthers fear....


    .... is sphere itself.

  11. #31


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    All who believe on Jesus are (will be) saved. Jesus does the baptizing with the Holy Spirit at the time of Salvation. Water baptism is a symbolic act of obedience and a testimony to forgiveness that has already taken place.
    Water baptism is a symbolic act of obedience and a testimony to forgiveness that has already taken place
    That's a nice story but has no biblical basis. The flood waters of Noah were a symbol of baptism, which now saves us (1st Peter 3:21). Baptism is not the symbol of forgiveness of sins but the point of forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). go back and read them both again.

    1st Peter 3:21 --- baptism which now saves us.

    Acts 2:38 -------- repent and be baptized so that your sins will be forgiven

    Any arguments pass these are appeals to generalities.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    So you believe Peter is commanding those cut to the heart to be Holy Spirit baptized to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Bless your heart.
    Look up Mikvah. It might answer your question as to why Peter said this.
    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

  13. #33
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    My response is quite accurate on the issue of your mentality towards this subject. You would never think this way toward other subjects like you are to this one.

    Satan quoted scriptures....deal with it. He also used them in the same way you are, turning a general statement into a definitive event (Luke 4).

    "this symbol points to baptism, which now saves you (1st Peter 3:21).

    Salvation is not based on generalities but obedience to the Gospel of Christ.
    More bloviated opinion it seems...

    It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE....NO WATER mentioned

    He that believes on the son is having everlasting life....No water mentioned

    In the grace you are having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast.....No water mentioned

    We conclude a man is justified by faith without works....No water mentioned

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.....No water mentioned

    Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness...No water mentioned

    David described the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness without the deeds of the law....no water mentioned

    For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believes in HIM should not perish, but is having everlasting life...No water mentioned

    They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." ...No water mentioned

    But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. ....NO water mentioned

    And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." ..NO WATER mentioned

    For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ...NO water mentioned

    That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; .....No water mentioned

    For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith......No water mentioned

    so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. ....NO WATER mentioned

    "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life......No water mentioned

    "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." ...NO WATER mentioned

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, ...NO WATER mentioned

    but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name...No water mentioned

    "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." ...NO water mentioned

    And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." ...NO WATER MENTIONED

    Seeing their faith, He said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven you." ...NO WATER MENTIONED

    But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth...NO WATER MENTIONED

    obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls...NO WATER MENTIONED

    YOU can forget your Catholicized/WATERED down COC/ANGLICAN dogma.......ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB, DAVID, MOSES, ABEL, JOB, HANNAH, and ALL the N.T. cited EXAMPLES above prove that water IMMERSION is not what saves a man and or forgives SINS........and UNTIL you open your eyes to CONTEXT you mouthy remarks = zero.........
    Budman and Lucy-Pevensie like this.

  14. #34


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    DJ2
    I would like you to consider your own behavior. You are complaining about the way folks are responding to the thread you started. When it is you that that launched an opening salvo on the belief of faith alone that saves by referring to it as “the thought that counts” . The little catch phrase is just a way you elevate your argument while degrading others . You are the one who should grow up . If you want a reasonable discussion stop with the quips . Set your argument then ask for a response. Bingo then you have a better chance for a civil conversation. Unless that was not your intention to start with?
    Blessings
    Bill
    Or you could stop attacking the messenger and focus on the message. Oops another quip.

    There is nothing wrong with the title of this trend, it is to the point and easily understood.

    We are all adults here and no malice is intended. You seem to be rather thin skinned or a little pompous.

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    Senior Member Deade's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    What being baptized does for us, is it makes us dead to our old worldly ways. Paul said it best to the Romans:

    Romans 6:1-14: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    If we consider ourselves dead to this world, we submit to the new man of the next world: God's Kingdom.
    Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
    to them who are the called according to His purpose.”

  16. #36
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Biblically speaking, is the act of obedience truly necessary or is the intent to obey sufficient? I ask this question because of the many excuses that are thrown up as reasons why the act of baptism itself cannot be necessary for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38).
    Excuses to avoid water baptism are not legitimate, and "it is the thought that counts" does not apply. At the same time the forgiveness of sins PRECEDES water baptism. When God justifies a sinner by grace through faith, He also forgives sins and regenerates the soul. So that is a part of "the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost".
    BillG likes this.

  17. #37
    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    ​If you imagine giving to the poor, thinking “It’s the thought that counts.” Then someone crosses your path in desperate need of the extra money you have, but do not do it, then you are deceiving yourself even the first time you imagined giving to the poor. So the thought didn’t count because your thought and your heart were not in agreement.

    For example, I was once homeless with a young child, and I asked my biological mother for fifty dollars so we could eat (this is before we received food stamps and an apartment). She said she didn’t have it to give, yet the very next day bragged to me about buying an $800 dog- which she treated better than she ever did me (that might be why I don’t like dogs).

    This woman is not my mother simply because of DNA, she has never once been a mother to me in any other way. She acts humble (false humility) and convinces many at church that she is as sweet as pie. But she is the perfect example of ‘the thought does not count.’ Because when church people came over for dinner she fed us kids and spoke real sweet to us in front of them. When they weren’t around we were abandoned for weeks, eating whatever we could find- cake mix, dog food, steal from the grocery store, or spend the night at a friend’s house just to eat dinner there.

    So yes, it is the thought that counts, however, if your thought does not count then you won’t really put that thought into action if given the opportunity, and you only deceive yourself. Effort is the evidence of love, yet it is possible for love to exist without effort (such as in someone who is paralyzed). But love will show effort if given the opportunity. If it does not, then it is not love for another, just love of self.

    And there is no such thing as “I was going to get baptized but I didn’t have the opportunity before I died.” God does not go against His Will. The whole purpose of this life is to test us for heaven. He even gave Jezabel time to repent but she did not. Even if you died before you are born, God knows what you would’ve chosen in life. An apple seed produces apples- not lemons, not grapes, not mustard trees. Even if you don’t give an appleseed a chance to grow, you know what it would produce anyways.

    Like the Bible says “Mankind is without excuse.”
    Last edited by OneFaith; February 10th, 2018 at 01:58 PM.

  18. #38


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    Excuses to avoid water baptism are not legitimate, and "it is the thought that counts" does not apply. At the same time the forgiveness of sins PRECEDES water baptism. When God justifies a sinner by grace through faith, He also forgives sins and regenerates the soul. So that is a part of "the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost".
    Your words sound more like conjecture then sola scriptura. Taking general statements and conveying them into a faith alone theology is common among many here but lacks any explanation to the many clear and definitive verses that express the need for obedience in the Gospel. I am aware of how distressing this idea is to many who hold faith alone dogma to the point that its acceptance becomes a virtual work of righteousness unto itself. Never the less it is a false doctrine, a feel good notion meant to help the carnal sleep at night while leading astray many well being people with its shallow understanding of both grammar and composition. Common sense is ignored when faith alone theology is inserted into any reasonable biblical discussion.

  19. #39
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Seems a lot of professing believers want to find some way others are going to hell.

    Yes, that's what it is.
    Last edited by preacher4truth; February 10th, 2018 at 04:42 PM.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


  20. #40
    Senior Member OneFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Seems a lot of professing believers want to find some way others are going to hell.

    Yes, that's what it is.
    I want to prevent others from going to hell, with God’s truth. If it were just about my ego I would not be on here tirelessly trying to save souls. I would just think to myself “I don’t care what they think.” But I do care whether souls go to heaven or not. Saul was well educated and thought he knew the correct way until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. And what did Jesus do? He gave it to Christians to tell what one must do. I’m here doing that job for my Lord just as Ananias did.

    DJ2 likes this.

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