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Thread: It's the thought that counts?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Your words sound more like conjecture then sola scriptura.
    If that's what you think why don't you tell us where water baptism is found in this passage (Titus 3:4-8)?

    4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

    5
    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    6
    Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    7
    That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    8
    This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.



  2. #42


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    More bloviated opinion it seems...

    It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE....NO WATER mentioned

    He that believes on the son is having everlasting life....No water mentioned

    In the grace you are having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast.....No water mentioned

    We conclude a man is justified by faith without works....No water mentioned

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.....No water mentioned

    Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness...No water mentioned

    David described the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness without the deeds of the law....no water mentioned

    For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believes in HIM should not perish, but is having everlasting life...No water mentioned

    They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." ...No water mentioned

    But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. ....NO water mentioned

    And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." ..NO WATER mentioned

    For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ...NO water mentioned

    That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; .....No water mentioned

    For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith......No water mentioned

    so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. ....NO WATER mentioned

    "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life......No water mentioned

    "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." ...NO WATER mentioned

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, ...NO WATER mentioned

    but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name...No water mentioned

    "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." ...NO water mentioned

    And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." ...NO WATER MENTIONED

    Seeing their faith, He said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven you." ...NO WATER MENTIONED

    But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth...NO WATER MENTIONED

    obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls...NO WATER MENTIONED

    YOU can forget your Catholicized/WATERED down COC/ANGLICAN dogma.......ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB, DAVID, MOSES, ABEL, JOB, HANNAH, and ALL the N.T. cited EXAMPLES above prove that water IMMERSION is not what saves a man and or forgives SINS........and UNTIL you open your eyes to CONTEXT you mouthy remarks = zero.........
    Repent and be baptized so that your sins are forgiven ....WATER MENTIONED

    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.....WATER MENTIONED

    What are you waiting for, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.....WATER MENTIONED

    And this is a symbol of baptism, which now saves us.....WATER MENTIONED

    unless someone is born of water and the spirit they cannot enter the kingdom of God....WATER MENTIONED

    See here is water what hinders me from being baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    Can anyone forbid water that these should not be baptized as we have.....WATER MENTIONED

    she and her hold household were baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    at that very night he and his household were immediately baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    and many of the Corinthians hearing, believing and were baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    when the Ephesians heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord.....WATER MENTIONED

    John came baptizing in the wilderness a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.....WATER MENTIONED

    Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name.....WATER MENTIONED

    SO YOUR POINT IS????

    Well you can forget your Calvinist/WATERED down televangelist/BAPTIST dogma.....ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB, DAVID, MOSES, ABEL, JOB, HANNAH, and ALL the N.T. examples of obedience prove that faith alone is not what saves a man or forgives SINS......and UNTIL you open your eyes and see that there is not enough CONTEXT in the world to justify your mouthy remarks.
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  3. #43


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    If that's what you think why don't you tell us where water baptism is found in this passage (Titus 3:4-8)?

    4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

    5
    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    6
    Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    7
    That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    8
    This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


    Do you have to be spoon fed?

    "he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost"

    Repent and be baptized so that your sins may be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Now point out faith alone in your passage.

  4. #44
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Repent and be baptized so that your sins are forgiven ....WATER MENTIONED

    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.....WATER MENTIONED

    What are you waiting for, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.....WATER MENTIONED

    And this is a symbol of baptism, which now saves us.....WATER MENTIONED

    unless someone is born of water and the spirit they cannot enter the kingdom of God....WATER MENTIONED

    See here is water what hinders me from being baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    Can anyone forbid water that these should not be baptized as we have.....WATER MENTIONED

    she and her hold household were baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    at that very night he and his household were immediately baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    and many of the Corinthians hearing, believing and were baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    when the Ephesians heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord.....WATER MENTIONED

    John came baptizing in the wilderness a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.....WATER MENTIONED

    Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name.....WATER MENTIONED

    SO YOUR POINT IS????

    Well you can forget your Calvinist/WATERED down televangelist/BAPTIST dogma.....ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB, DAVID, MOSES, ABEL, JOB, HANNAH, and ALL the N.T. examples of obedience prove that faith alone is not what saves a man or forgives SINS......and UNTIL you open your eyes and see that there is not enough CONTEXT in the world to justify your mouthy remarks.
    Nice try....no cigar......water and works do not save, never have, never will......FAITH alone is what saves......
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  5. #45
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?


  6. #46


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Nice try....no cigar......water and works do not save, never have, never will......FAITH alone is what saves......
    When you finally take your fingers out of your ears show us your scriptures for "FAITH alone is what saves". I am sure you can find lots of them.

    "And that water is like baptism, which now saves you". Deal with it.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    When you finally take your fingers out of your ears show us your scriptures for "FAITH alone is what saves". I am sure you can find lots of them.

    "And that water is like baptism, which now saves you". Deal with it.
    I already have dealt with it.....go back to your false post.....through and through the bible teaches FAITH....end of story....you deal with your watered down working for bloodless salvation....see how that WORKS out for you.....

    The 11th chapter of HEBREWS is about FAITH not water.....wake up.....
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  8. #48


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    I already have dealt with it.....go back to your false post.....through and through the bible teaches FAITH....end of story....you deal with your watered down working for bloodless salvation....see how that WORKS out for you.....

    The 11th chapter of HEBREWS is about FAITH not water.....wake up.....
    "FAITH alone is what saves" these are your words and they are definitive. Therefore back up your statement with a definitive scripture verse and stop with the general statements. I suggest you go back and brush up on your basic english composition rules. General statements support but never negate a definitive statement.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    "FAITH alone is what saves" these are your words and they are definitive. Therefore back up your statement with a definitive scripture verse and stop with the general statements. I suggest you go back and brush up on your basic english composition rules. General statements support but never negate a definitive statement.

    English hey....try GREEK verb tense....<--the N.T. was not written in ENGLISH....and post 33....argue all the verses that STATE clearly that FAITH is what saves, justifies, seals, and sanctifies eternally in Christ.......

    One verse alone proves your error....

    It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE.....wake up.

    Water, works, church membership, back flipping down the pew, and or any other spiritual rigmarole has never saved a flea, nor will it....

    JESUS was clear...

    HE THAT BELIEVES IS NOT CONDEMNED
    HE THAT BELIEVES IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE

    PLAIN as day for all who do not view it through religiously blind eyes......same problem the Pharisees had......unable to see the truth do to the religious trees of works and religion.
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Okay.....but what about the question.

    in this forum the popular opinion is nothing really applies to salvation. you dont really need to repent of sin, thats a "work" you dont need to be baptized " thats a work" you arent supposed to believe the gospel, because Jesus preached the law that teaches " works" the holy spirit does not come to us Like Jesus said, because He said keep my words and I will send the spirit to you" but....thats a work" .......baptism of the spirit comes only by pauls command, and its only if you refuse to do anything the word of God says to actually do, because thats falling from Grace when you do that.......


    good luck on the truth about baptism God bless

  11. #51


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    in this forum the popular opinion is nothing really applies to salvation. you dont really need to repent of sin, thats a "work" you dont need to be baptized " thats a work" you arent supposed to believe the gospel, because Jesus preached the law that teaches " works" the holy spirit does not come to us Like Jesus said, because He said keep my words and I will send the spirit to you" but....thats a work" .......baptism of the spirit comes only by pauls command, and its only if you refuse to do anything the word of God says to actually do, because thats falling from Grace when you do that.......


    good luck on the truth about baptism God bless
    I certainly do see your point. Many on this forum are borderline universalists and many others are deep into esoteric knowledge. There is very little sola scriptura to be had here.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    English hey....try GREEK verb tense....<--the N.T. was not written in ENGLISH....and post 33....argue all the verses that STATE clearly that FAITH is what saves, justifies, seals, and sanctifies eternally in Christ.......

    One verse alone proves your error....

    It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE.....wake up.

    Water, works, church membership, back flipping down the pew, and or any other spiritual rigmarole has never saved a flea, nor will it....

    JESUS was clear...

    HE THAT BELIEVES IS NOT CONDEMNED
    HE THAT BELIEVES IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE

    PLAIN as day for all who do not view it through religiously blind eyes......same problem the Pharisees had......unable to see the truth do to the religious trees of works and religion.
    Faith alone regeneration theology is at its core an abstraction without its event. In other words the faith alone groups have so removed the very works of faith that are commanded by God that they have convinced themselves that the event has no true purpose but as a symbol. Replacing obedience to the faith with simply the acceptance of the faith itself. They seem to have exchanged consent in place of obedience as a conformation of salvation. There is no biblical basis for this mentality and goes against the very flow and form of the scriptures.

    Attempting to be wise they have shown the folly of human wisdom.

    "Surely God would not use the gazing upon a brass snake as the point of healing, that would be foolish."

    "Certainly God would not use our walking in circles around the city as the catalyst for the walls destruction, that would be foolish."

    "Plainly God would never use the waters of the Pool of Siloam to heal a flea or much less a man, that would be foolish"

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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    "he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost"
    The washing of regeneration is INTERNAL just as the renewing of the Holy Ghost is INTERNAL. No external water of baptism, this is all spiritual and of the Spirit. Only the RCC teaches the FALSE DOCTRINE of baptismal regeneration.

    And "justified by grace" means justified by grace through faith, not through water baptism.

  14. #54


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    The washing of regeneration is INTERNAL just as the renewing of the Holy Ghost is INTERNAL. No external water of baptism, this is all spiritual and of the Spirit. Only the RCC teaches the FALSE DOCTRINE of baptismal regeneration.

    And "justified by grace" means justified by grace through faith, not through water baptism.
    You asked a question and I gave an answer. The verse does not say internal, you are. You are but looking for loopholes to negate that which is clearly taught, baptism for the remission of sins. Your guilt by association comment will not fly. JV's agree with you that baptism is not for the remission of sins. Welcome to their club.

    And "justified by grace through faith" does not negate the need for a proper response. Even gifts need proper responses, unless you are pushing universalism.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    in this forum the popular opinion is nothing really applies to salvation. you dont really need to repent of sin, thats a "work" you dont need to be baptized " thats a work" you arent supposed to believe the gospel, because Jesus preached the law that teaches " works" the holy spirit does not come to us Like Jesus said, because He said keep my words and I will send the spirit to you" but....thats a work" .......baptism of the spirit comes only by pauls command, and its only if you refuse to do anything the word of God says to actually do, because thats falling from Grace when you do that.......


    good luck on the truth about baptism God bless

    Who here is claiming these things? I haven't seen that.
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    *Then they will know that I am the Lord*




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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    in this forum the popular opinion is nothing really applies to salvation. you dont really need to repent of sin, thats a "work" you dont need to be baptized " thats a work" you arent supposed to believe the gospel, because Jesus preached the law that teaches " works" the holy spirit does not come to us Like Jesus said, because He said keep my words and I will send the spirit to you" but....thats a work" .......baptism of the spirit comes only by pauls command, and its only if you refuse to do anything the word of God says to actually do, because thats falling from Grace when you do that.......

    good luck on the truth about baptism God bless
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    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    English hey....try GREEK verb tense....<--the N.T. was not written in ENGLISH....and post 33....argue all the verses that STATE clearly that FAITH is what saves, justifies, seals, and sanctifies eternally in Christ.......

    One verse alone proves your error....

    It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE.....wake up.

    Water, works, church membership, back flipping down the pew, and or any other spiritual rigmarole has never saved a flea, nor will it....

    JESUS was clear...

    HE THAT BELIEVES IS NOT CONDEMNED
    HE THAT BELIEVES IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE

    PLAIN as day for all who do not view it through religiously blind eyes......same problem the Pharisees had......unable to see the truth do to the religious trees of works and religion.
    John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Lol @ Locust's and mailman's post.

    Hi everyone. Baptism.

    Matthew 3:11 'I indeed do baptize you with water to reformation, but he, who after me,is coming is mightier than I, of whom I am not worthy to bear the sandals, he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire,



    What happened when Jesus Christ died? What He say He would do?

    That He would send the Holy Spirit. This is baptism, in a nutshell.

    When you believe in God things can change, in your life, looking in a different way when you did not believe in God.

    So because of the Lord Jesus Christ and everything He had done, dying on the cross paying the price of sin, anyone who believes in Him, is made right in the eyes of God, and they have access in praying and talking to the Father in heaven, and the Lord Jesus Christ anytime, anywhere, and have the right to know they are loved by them, and they care about each and every person.

    We can have peace in our life.

    And all it takes is for someone to believe in God, to find the Truth in the Lord Jesus Christ.


    Last edited by MatthewG; 1 Week Ago at 08:56 AM.
    1 Peter 5 : 7 Cast all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.

    Phil 4: 6 for nothing be anxious, but in everything by prayer, and by supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God; 7 and the peace of God, that is surpassing all understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but who who (has not repented? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (repented? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Acts 2:38 - Peter said to them, "Each one of you must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins may be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (No need to add)

    No matter how many verses you present showing belief as necessary, it does not negate the verses that clearly state the need for repentance and baptism. Scriptures harmonize scripture not negate them.

    If you believe that there is a tacit connection between the act of repentance and belief, why not the acts of confession and baptism? If faith alone (which is not stated in scripture) incorporates the act of repentance why not baptism and confession? Why do you draw your tacit line to not include what is so clearly commanded, confession and baptism.

    Did those cut to the heart not believe? Why tell believers to repent if repentance is tacit to believing?

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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but who who (has not repented? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (repented? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    Here is where your logic about repentance in regards to John 3:18 fails. Repentance actually "precedes" saving belief in Christ and water baptism "follows." Your church reverses the scriptural order of repentance and belief/faith. To the contrary we find:

    Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

    Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.

    Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.

    Repent "change of mind" - new direction of this change of mind - "believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. You place repentance "after" believe/faith in your 5 step church of Christ plan of salvation and cannot grape a deeper faith which trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

    Acts 2:38 - Peter said to them, "Each one of you must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins may be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (No need to add)

    No matter how many verses you present showing belief as necessary, it does not negate the verses that clearly state the need for repentance and baptism. Scriptures harmonize scripture not negate them.

    If you believe that there is a tacit connection between the act of repentance and belief, why not the acts of confession and baptism? If faith alone (which is not stated in scripture) incorporates the act of repentance why not baptism and confession? Why do you draw your tacit line to not include what is so clearly commanded, confession and baptism.

    Did those cut to the heart not believe? Why tell believers to repent if repentance is tacit to believing?
    We must repent "change our mind" before we can believe the gospel and become saved. Repent and believe/faith are two sides to the same coin. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

    *Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

    In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

    *So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

    In regards to confession, confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

    1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

    So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit from a check list of steps in an effort to receive salvation by works is not unto salvation.

    We must properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine and not distort and pervert passages of Scripture in an effort to "patch together" an erroneous plan of salvation by works.
    Last edited by mailmandan; 1 Week Ago at 10:04 AM.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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