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Thread: It's the thought that counts?

  1. #61
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    In the book of Acts,Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans,were all baptized in the name of Jesus,and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

    If they say that this is speaking of baptism in the Holy Spirit,and not water baptism,then receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is for the forgiveness of sins,but they say that repenting of their sins,and confessing Christ is for the forgiveness of sins,but we receive the Holy Spirit because we have the forgiveness of sins,and water baptism is for the remission of sins,the washing away of sins.

    In the Old Testament God said He would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them,which Jesus told Philip if you have seen Me you have seen the Father,and the words that I speak are not My own,but the Father that dwells in Me,He does the works.

    Jesus said He came in His Father's name.

    The prophet Agur asked what is His name,and what is His Son's name,if you can tell,which means the Father and Son will share the same name.

    The Son inherited the name from the Father.

    The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

    Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost.

    Luke said baptism is to be done in Jesus' name.

    Everything we do in word and in deed is to be done in Jesus' name.

    There is no other name by which we are saved but by the name of Jesus,which is the name that is above all names,not only in this world but in the world to come.

    Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    Plainly stated by Jesus,but people will ignore to go along with what they believe.

    1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Noah and his family were saved by water,and the like figure baptism does now save us,not the putting away of the dirtiness of the flesh as in taking a bath,but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    It is obvious that it is speaking of water baptism,but will some people will say not,and you wonder how do they interpret scriptures,and they will go against what the word of God speaks to hold unto their denomination beliefs.

    Noah and his family saved by water,the like figure even now saves us which must be water baptism,for it is speaking of water,and it is not for the removal of dirt from the body,must be water,but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    It is obvious it is speaking of water,and people that believe faith alone,not saved by works,baptism is not necessary for salvation,they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,ignore scriptures,and misinterpret scriptures a lot.

    They cannot deny it means water baptism,but they do it anyway,all the while they say they are chosen and elect,and look at the hypocrisy among them,but how can the chosen and elect believe in such a way as them.

    God said that He wants all people to be saved,and anybody can have salvation,but they insist not so they can hold unto their beliefs.

    2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    It seems like they do not want to let go of all the ways of the flesh.

    Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    baptizō
    bap-tid'-zo
    From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet).

    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

    The man Christ Jesus is a human that died,was buried,and rose again,and we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus by repenting of our sins,dying out to sin,and being water baptized,laying down those sins,forgiveness of sins,and receiving the Holy Spirit,rising to newness of life.

    The thief on the cross could not be water baptized,so baptism was bypassed,but if a person knows that it is a requirement to be water baptized,and does not do it,and ignores it,they would be accountable to it.

    But they believe that God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,without their choice,so all of their belief comes from that.

    They do not understand that God says He wants all people to repent,and come to the truth,and be saved,and not willing that any perish but all come be saved,and Jesus lights every person that is born in this world,so all people have the chance to see the light of Jesus,and be saved,and the Spirit and bride say Come,and anybody can have that salvation.

    Do not understand that many are called but few are chosen,so God does the calling and choosing on earth.

    Do not understand that the Lord knows them that are His having this seal,that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and Paul speaks that to their shame.

    Do not understand that charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and love is the fulfilling of the law,so if they lack in love they lack in faith,and Paul said charity does not think an evil thought,does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth,abstains from sin by the Spirit,is not unkind,not arrogant,not selfish,and only goes by their needs,and not their wants,and helps the poor and needy with their needs.

    Do not understand faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ for that is all we can do.

    But when we receive the Spirit it is faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for the Spirit will not twist their arm to live for God,so they have a responsibility to want to do right,and want to do works of love,before the Spirit will lead them.

    Do not understand when Paul is speaking of a person being of the flesh,and when they receive the Spirit and are spiritual,which when they are of the flesh,not saved by works,not saved by the law,for the flesh cannot live up to the law,but when they receive the Spirit then they have to allow the Spirit to lead them and have works of love before faith can apply in their life,and Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish the law.

    They will even say that they do not have to obey Christ for salvation,but God said we have to obey the people that have authority over us in the world,such as governments,and if they do not then they are going against God for no power can rule unless God allows it,so how much more should they obey Christ,and every thought they have is to be to the obedience of Christ,so they can revenge all disobedience,when their obedience is fulfilled.



    They want to hold unto their denomination beliefs that they will ignore scriptures.

  2. #62


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Here is where your logic about repentance in regards to John 3:18 fails. Repentance actually "precedes" saving belief in Christ and water baptism "follows." Your church reverses the scriptural order of repentance and belief/faith. To the contrary we find:

    Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

    Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.

    Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.

    Repent "change of mind" - new direction of this change of mind - "believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. You place repentance "after" believe/faith in your 5 step church of Christ plan of salvation and cannot grape a deeper faith which trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

    We must repent "change our mind" before we can believe the gospel and become saved. Repent and believe/faith are two sides to the same coin. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

    *Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

    In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

    *So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

    In regards to confession, confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

    1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

    So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit from a check list of steps in an effort to receive salvation by works is not unto salvation.

    We must properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine and not distort and pervert passages of Scripture in an effort to "patch together" an erroneous plan of salvation by works.
    What a utterly strange and confusing system is faith alone regeneration theology. What a bogus, twisted and absurd notion is such thinking. The more I learn of its bizarre nature the more I am convinced of its failure. Scriptures cannot be taken at face value, even such simple ones.

    God is not the god of confusion. You are not "harmonizing the scriptures, you are butchering the scriptures. For you to come up with these far fetched explanations is certainly needed to believe such a narrative. Salvation is based on faith alone and this is how it is presented?? Wrong. No one writes in such convoluted ways.

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    Senior Member pottersclay's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Baptism....interesting subject.....beat to death by those that want to spiritualizes everything.

    Jesus was baptized by John....yet nowhere in scripture do we see that Jesus baptized anyone. John said that he needed to be baptized by jesus. Jesus told John suffer it to be so now.
    Jesus was perfect....why did he have to be baptized by John?
    Jesus also instructed us to baptise in the great commission.
    Baptism was John's ministry......not Jesus....so why ?
    Jesus said if you don't let me wash you....you have no part in me.
    The temple had many pools in which the Jews would also wash before entering in so a form of imersion was practised before Christ.
    The Muslim also wash out side before entering in to there mosque.
    So saints what's really going on with the water immersion ....(baptism).
    It seemed very important to our Lord as he commissioned us to do so.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    So saints what's really going on with the water immersion ....(baptism).
    The purpose of water baptism by immersion is clearly explained in Scripture. But some would seek to pervert that and make it necessary for salvation.
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    The purpose of water baptism by immersion is clearly explained in Scripture. But some would seek to pervert that and make it necessary for salvation.
    And what's it's purpose?

  6. #66


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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    The purpose of water baptism by immersion is clearly explained in Scripture. But some would seek to pervert that and make it necessary for salvation.
    Since water baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and salvation is based on the forgiveness of sins, how can it not be necessary for salvation?

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Since water baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and salvation is based on the forgiveness of sins, how can it not be necessary for salvation?
    Did Jesus need to be saved?
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Since water baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and salvation is based on the forgiveness of sins, how can it not be necessary for salvation?
    Ask Abraham and all those men (and women) of faith listed in Hebrews 11 -- "the spirits of just men made perfect".
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    What a utterly strange and confusing system is faith alone regeneration theology. What a bogus, twisted and absurd notion is such thinking. The more I learn of its bizarre nature the more I am convinced of its failure. Scriptures cannot be taken at face value, even such simple ones.

    God is not the god of confusion. You are not "harmonizing the scriptures, you are butchering the scriptures. For you to come up with these far fetched explanations is certainly needed to believe such a narrative. Salvation is based on faith alone and this is how it is presented?? Wrong. No one writes in such convoluted ways.
    God is certainly not the god of confusion, yet according to your multi-step plan of salvation, you have believe (still lost) repent (still lost) confess (still lost) baptized (finally saved) which negates a multitude of verses (Luke 8:12; 24:47; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:9,10; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

    Prior to my conversion, I did not understand the truth that salvation is by grace through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE (Ephesians 2:8,9) either and instead believed that salvation was through faith + works, just as you do now.

    The natural man cannot understand and is spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14). The gospel is hid to those who don't believe (2 Corinthians 4:3,4). *That is the heart of the reason why unbelievers teach a "works based" false gospel. Been there, done that, but now I BELIEVE the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16).

    I have properly harmonized scripture with scripture to reach my conclusion on doctrine, but you still insist on butchering the scriptures by distorting and perverting passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" your so called gospel plan. Your method of interpreting scripture at face value or "on the surface" while ignoring the context and failing to properly harmonize scripture with scripture has led you to your erroneous conclusion on doctrine, namely, salvation by "water and works."

    Roman Catholics interpret John 6:53-54 at face value after ignoring the context (John 6:47-64) and failing to properly harmonize scripture with scripture and it has led to the false doctrine of "transubstantiation" in which we "literally" eat His flesh and "literally" drink His blood which amounts to cannibalism.

    It's always a pleasure to share the truth with you about the plan of salvation, but unfortunately, are unable to see anything beyond your church of Christ indoctrination.
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    Senior Member Budman's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    *sigh*

    Legalists always gloss over the fact that there were people in the Bible who were clearly saved (had their sins forgiven) apart from baptism:

    The Paralytic Man (Matthew 9:2)

    The Woman who washed the feet of Jesus: (Luke 7:48-50)

    The entire household of Cornelius: (Acts 10:44-46)

    Of course, the Thief on the cross: (Luke 23: 42-43)

    Either baptism is not necessary for salvation, or God is clearly playing favorites.

    Even Paul said, "I thank God I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius." (1 Corinthians 1:14)

    That's a weird thing to say if baptism was required for salvation! Paul would basically be thanking God none of them were saved except Crispus and Gaius.
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Repent and be baptized so that your sins are forgiven ....WATER MENTIONED

    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.....WATER MENTIONED

    What are you waiting for, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.....WATER MENTIONED

    And this is a symbol of baptism, which now saves us.....WATER MENTIONED

    unless someone is born of water and the spirit they cannot enter the kingdom of God....WATER MENTIONED

    See here is water what hinders me from being baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    Can anyone forbid water that these should not be baptized as we have.....WATER MENTIONED

    she and her hold household were baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    at that very night he and his household were immediately baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    and many of the Corinthians hearing, believing and were baptized.....WATER MENTIONED

    when the Ephesians heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord.....WATER MENTIONED

    John came baptizing in the wilderness a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.....WATER MENTIONED

    Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name.....WATER MENTIONED

    SO YOUR POINT IS????
    And these verses emphasize salvation by grace through faith without mentioning water baptism:
    1. John 1:12
    2. John 3:14-18, 36 (whoever)
    3. John 5:24
    4. John 6:29-40, 47, 69 (whoever, everyone)
    5. John 11:25-26 (whoever)
    6. John 12:46-50 (whoever)
    7. John 16:7-9 (not believe)
    8. John 17:20-22
    9. John 20:31
    10. Acts 2:21,33 (everyone)
    11. Acts 10:43-48 (whoever, water baptism follows belief and Holy Spirit’s work of salvation)
    12. Acts 13:38-39, 48 (everyone)
    13. Acts 15:8-11
    14. Acts 16:30-31 (answer to a direct question: What must I do to be saved?)
    15. Acts 26:18
    16. Romans 1:16 (everyone)
    17. Romans 3:20-31 (all who believe)
    18. Romans 4:1-11
    19. Romans 4:23-25
    20. Romans 5:1-21
    21. Romans 9:30-33 (whoever)
    22. Romans 10:4-13 (everyone, whoever)
    23. Galatians 2:15-21, Galatians 3:1-28 (whoever, baptism secondary to faith)
    24. Galatians 5:5-6
    25. Ephesians 2:8-10
    26. Philippians 3:4-14
    27. 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
    28. Hebrews 4:2-3
    29. 1 Peter 2:6
    30. 1 John 1:5-10
    31. 1 John 4:15 (God abides in whoever confesses Christ)
    32. 1 John 5:1, 10-13 (whoever)

    33. Other verses mention belief without water baptism: Luke 7:50; John 2:11, 23; John 4:39, 41; John 7:38-39; John 8:30-32; John 9:35-36; John 10:42; John 11:45, 48; John 12:11, 42-44; John 14:1, 12; John 20:31; Acts 14:23; Acts 20:21; Romans 15:13; Philippians 1:29; Titus 3:8. Instances of conversion in the book of Acts without reference to baptism: Acts 3:1-4:4, Acts 5:1-14, Acts 9:32-35, Acts 11:19-24, Acts 13:6-12, Acts 13:42-52, Acts 14:1, Acts 17:10-12, Acts 17:22-34.

    SO YOUR POINT IS????
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    There is very little sola scriptura to be had here.
    Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

    Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

    John the Baptist made it clear:

    Luke 3:16, Mk 1:7 I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit"

    Acts 1:5 Jesus said, John truly baptized with water; but ye shall soon be baptized with the Holy Spirit

    Mat 26:28 Jesus said, this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

    Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Rom 3:25 (A) """Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation""" (B) """through faith in his blood""" (C) """to declare his righteousness""" (D) """for the remission of sins that are past""" (E) """through the forbearance of God""";

    (A) God sent Christ to be a Propitiation = To make reconciliation.

    (B) Those who come to God by/thru faith placed in a sinless Christ's redemptive sin atoning sacricife. Are accepted by/thur faith alone. It's Christ's enduring FAITH that paid sins required wage

    (C) It's Christ's perfect sinless nature, work & righteousness that God accepted as payment for ALL sin.

    (D) Christ's redemptive sin atoning sacricife paid sins wage due > DEATH. When God raised Christ from the grave. He was saying: Sins payment ACCEPTED

    (E) Adam sinned, God placed all of humanity under sins wage. God forbared = withheld/delayed ALL punishment due. Until a perfect sacrifice would be made.

    I find it sad when people. Rob Jesus of His due Honor. By claiming what He SUFFERED ON THE CROSS just isn't good enough. And that somehow its them who deserve the Glory. Cause they obey a doctrine of man made works.

    Eph 2:8 By grace" are ye saved through faith not of yourselves it is the gift of God

    Eph 2:9 Not of works lest any man should boast

    Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

    Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    Grace, Righteousness, & Salvation are ALL Gifts from GOD received by Faith not Works.
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    Since water baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and salvation is based on the forgiveness of sins, how can it not be necessary for salvation?
    It is the blood of Christ not water that forms the basis for the forgiveness really the atonement of our sins. Nothing in our salvation is based on water. Grace through faith. Faith in the blood of Christ being wholly sufficient to make complete atonement for our sins.

    What can wash away my sins? Nothing but the blood of Jesus. For my pardon this I see nothing but the blood of Jesus. Full atonement can it be? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

    Great old hymn with doctrine.

    For the cause of Christ
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    I certainly do see your point. Many on this forum are borderline universalists and many others are deep into esoteric knowledge. There is very little sola scriptura to be had here.
    Oh a Latin phrase! How very Harry Potter of you!
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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    So again I ask ..what is water baptism and why is it important and commissioned?

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    So again I ask ..what is water baptism and why is it important and commissioned?
    I think this question can be answered by examining John's baptism.
    The people went to John confessing their sin. In effect saying "I am a sinner in need of a Savior" John's baptism didn't take away a single solitary sin.
    We know this because almost the next words out of John's mouth was "Behold, the Lamb of God, that takes away the sins of the world".
    John was acknowledging that JESUS was the one who takes away sin, NOT baptism.
    John also says that Jesus will Baptise us with the Holy Spirit, NOT water.
    The water baptism is an outward symbol of the inner change that has taken place now that we are Baptized with the Holy Spirit BECAUSE OF THE LAMB WHO TAKES AWAY OUR SIN.

    It really needs to be no more complicated than that.
    Budman, Laish and Rosemaryx like this.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy-Pevensie View Post
    Oh a Latin phrase! How very Harry Potter of you!
    I will make it easy for you. Bible only no esoteric knowledge.

    esoteric means limited knowledge given only to or understood by few.

    I hope this helps.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by PennEd View Post
    I think this question can be answered by examining John's baptism.
    The people went to John confessing their sin. In effect saying "I am a sinner in need of a Savior" John's baptism didn't take away a single solitary sin.
    We know this because almost the next words out of John's mouth was "Behold, the Lamb of God, that takes away the sins of the world".
    John was acknowledging that JESUS was the one who takes away sin, NOT baptism.
    John also says that Jesus will Baptise us with the Holy Spirit, NOT water.
    The water baptism is an outward symbol of the inner change that has taken place now that we are Baptized with the Holy Spirit BECAUSE OF THE LAMB WHO TAKES AWAY OUR SIN.

    It really needs to be no more complicated than that.
    John's baptism was for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4).

    It really needs to be no more complicated that that.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    John's baptism was for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4).

    It really needs to be no more complicated that that.
    Johns baptism was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sin. Repentance evidenced through baptism as was traditional in Judaism.

    Christ's blood was not yet shed so no atonement was yet made.

    For the cause of Christ
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    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: It's the thought that counts?

    To Budman and FlyingDove:

    What is your point? Are you both implying that these verses negate the 13 verses in post 42? General statements reinforce the definitive not invalidate them.

    Does the lack of faith being mentioned in James 1:27 nullify the need for belief?

    Faith alone regeneration theology is a philology based on abstractions without an event. In other words a theology based on general statements canceling out the more definitive. A backwards understanding of not just biblical subjects but any subject.

    Example: The teacher informed the class that whoever studied hard for the test would not fail but receive a passing grade.

    Does this mean the students who answered incorrectly would receive a passing grade? The teachers remark was spoken in general, as is 99% of all language.

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