Some common misconceptions about God;

[Stunnedbygrace]

Im not at odds with anyone stunned. We just all have different opinions as we study different things.

Not understanding again...

 

[stonesoffire]

2 You desire things and don’t have them. You kill, and you are jealous, and you still can’t get them. So you fight and quarrel. The reason you don’t have is that you don’t pray! 3 Or you pray and don’t receive, because you pray with the wrong motive, that of wanting to indulge your own desires.

4 You unfaithful wives! Don’t you know that loving the world is hating God? Whoever chooses to be the world’s friend makes himself God’s enemy! 5 Or do you suppose the Scripture speaks in vain when it says that there is a spirit in us which longs to envy? 6 But the grace he gives is greater, which is why it says,

“God opposes the arrogant,
but to the humble he gives grace.”[a]

7 Therefore, submit to God. Moreover, take a stand against the Adversary, and he will flee from you. 8 Come close to God, and he will come close to you. Clean your hands, sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded people! 9 Wail, mourn, sob! Let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy into gloom! 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

****

Using this version cuz p777 seems to like it.

But, we who believe that God promises these things, do ask. Not because we desire to be rich, but we desire to glorify God in His goodness to His children.

In a sense, we have returned to the garden of Eden. The curse is reversed for the body of Christ. All that Adam and Eve needed was supplied there in Paradise, and that is our heritage too. Part of our inheritance as children of God. Children of light.

Thats what I mean about benefits. We don't demand, command, but look to Father for our needs, knowing He will answer.

And He does.

Jesus purchased these benefits that David spoke of, for us.

 

[stonesoffire]

Not understanding again...

I felt you were pitting me against Ariel. I have a lot of respect for her. I know she studies.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Well yes, I would agree. However, Satan did not ask for permission. It's not there. You would have to quote it to me, but no one can. It's conjecture.

I have already pointed out how Satan INDIRECTLY asked for permission from God, and he was also told twice as to how far he could go with his attacks, and the boundaries set by God. According to Ellis Satan could do as he pleased, but that is definitely not what the book of Job reveals. Indeed, had God chosen to totally spare Job, Satan could not have laid a finger on him. The fact that Satan is asking God to destroy Job in each case confirms that Satan was merely an instrument in God's hands. However, since you are bound and determined to support Ellis and other false teachers (a la joaniemarie), not even Scripture will convince you to cease and desist. That's called wilful blindness.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I felt you were pitting me against Ariel. I have a lot of respect for her. I know she studies.

Oh! No, I wasn't pitting you against her!

I was asking if you were rebutting what she said!

I was confused why anyone would not agree with what she said, so I was confused at you seeming to rebut it.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I have already pointed out how Satan INDIRECTLY asked for permission from God, and he was also told twice as to how far he could go with his attacks, and the boundaries set by God. According to Ellis Satan could do as he pleased, but that is definitely not what the book of Job reveals. Indeed, had God chosen to totally spare Job, Satan could not have laid a finger on him. The fact that Satan is asking God to destroy Job in each case confirms that Satan was merely an instrument in God's hands. However, since you are bound and determined to support Ellis and other false teachers (a la joaniemarie), not even Scripture will convince you to cease and desist. That's called wilful blindness.

I like your post but disagree with your charge of willful blindness. I think we work these hard things out as we talk about them and while we live them.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I started the thread for tomorrow SOF.

Get some sleep!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

But, we who believe that God promises these things, do ask. Not because we desire to be rich, but we desire to glorify God in His goodness to His children.

In a sense, we have returned to the garden of Eden. The curse is reversed for the body of Christ. All that Adam and Eve needed was supplied there in Paradise, and that is our heritage too. Part of our inheritance as children of God. Children of light.

Thats what I mean about benefits. We don't demand, command, but look to Father for our needs, knowing He will answer.

And He does.

Jesus purchased these benefits that David spoke of, for us.

Yes Ariel, I can say now that she wasn't understanding your post. In her defense, she said she was tired!

 

[joaniemarie]

OK, will take you all one at a time. I hope you all stuck to the OP though.

You're a sweetie Stones., and you have much more patience than me. Bless you sissy.

 

[joaniemarie]

I checked and found that one of the books he authored won the Guild of Christian Writers Silver Medal award.

I guess that members of their awards committee are not big on doctrinal soundness.

Or.... maybe they read what Mr. Ellis was saying and appreciated it because they ARE big on Biblical soundness....And maybe.... they don't see Job the same as many do here because maybe he isn't going by the doctrines of men?

Because God does not give just to take away and that when Job made that statement about God., it was Job's ideas about God and not the truth of what God is or does. Job said many wrong things about God in the beginning of his journey of learning about God. (just as many of us have) And Job had yet to learn the truth about the goodness and kindness and loveliness of God.

That's my opinion on P.Ellis. I like what he says and have read him out all the way through much of his posts so I know he is not a fly by night heretic by any means. Personally., I've never put much on awards but people get them for a reason and all the Christians who make up the Guild of Christian Writers seem to think Paul is worthy of a silver metal award... although people on this thread have no use for him or his writings.

LOL the guy can't catch a break no matter what he writes or how many awards he gets or how much investigation is done... he's found to be innocent of being a liar yet still he's a shyster according to many here. All I can do is shake my head and beThankful the brothers and sisters in the body of Christ are not limited to this thread.

Thank you Marc for taking the time to investigate the paper trail. And thank you for agreeing to disagree.

 

[joaniemarie]

Hi JM
I haven't even read past #1 of your post because it stopped me in my tracks.

I know we all perceive things in different ways. My mind can't even wrap around #1 though. I don't know how you could read the beginning of Job and take it with: Satan has asked to sift you like wheat, and then come away with what you say in #1.
I'm not inclined to read the rest until I can understand how you arrive at this #1...

Hi Stunned.... I understand how difficult it is to step out from our own interpretations and those of our teachers whom we love dearly and look at the book of Job in another way. It's not even possible for some. But I thank God that He gives us the Holy Spirit to teach us and lead us into all truth. He won't force us to go but He will lead us and go before us. It's our choice to follow or to stay put.

I see God best when I look at Jesus. That is how the HolySpirit works., He always points us to Jesus. That is Biblical. I don't see God best when I look at Job. He is a man. And with that truth in mind., I understand Job's words what describe God vs Jesus and His words describing God. Blessings!

 

[Depleted]

I checked and found that one of the books he authored won the Guild of Christian Writers Silver Medal award.

I guess that members of their awards committee are not big on doctrinal soundness.

I just started catching on (read "another writer told me this, and I never even thought there was such a thing as Christian writing guilds" ) to Christian Writing Guilds yesterday, so this is from someone who doesn't know more than you. But I did immediately google Guild of Christian Writers and found this article from 2014. Sounds like the owner (Jerry Jenkins) is a good guy and really did help Christian Writers, except, you're right. He's not into doctrinal soundness too much. He's best known as the author of The Left Behind series.

Now I'm all the way up to Ellis is a great marketer, and a very good writer. He's just missing that one critical skill needed to teach biblically -- knowing the subject being taught. The Bible. Not good for someone who claims to be a pastor and teacher.

 

[Depleted]

Well yes, I would agree. However, Satan did not ask for permission. It's not there. You would have to quote it to me, but no one can. It's conjecture.

Not only is it there, I quoted it earlier. (And have waited for you to get to what I said, since you are being asked from many people. But here you've obviously bypassed my response.)

 

[Depleted]

Ok. So you take the OP, and prove him wrong.

I just did! I've been doing that consistently for 12 pages!!!

Ellis says Satan never asked permission. You "reply with quote" the very proof that Satan most certainly DID need God's permission.

What?

 

[joaniemarie]

I would have to disagree. I do believe Elihu was a prophet before the appearance of God because God did not rebuke him along with Eliphaz and his two friends.

Elihu told Job to humble himself and realize that God doesn't OWE US ANYTHING. No matter how righteous and blameless we walk..,, we are nothing but unprofitable servants.

Until the world realizes that God does NOT promise an easy lufe, wealth or health. Until the world is humbled and admits that everything we are given is a BLESSING FROM GOD and not a payment for wages earned....ONLY THEN DOES ONES faith built up.

Jesus told His disciples that parable about how if you are a servant and worked in the fields all day. When your master comes home,he does NOT tell you to sit down and eat some dinner...he tells you to make His dinner and serve Him.

Yet people out of pride rebell against this.

I agree that Dr. Paul Ellis is wrong in most of his post and don't believe that Elihu is like Jesus healing Job. He is more like John the Baptist warning Job of the judgement to come....however God reveals yet again His mercy, grace and love.

Job realizes that God doesn't owe him anything and even in Chapter 3 days "God gives and takes away"

However God blesses people beyond what most take the time to thank Him for.

Instead of giving God thanks, folks are like spoiled double minded adulterous children who seek the idols and wealth of the world and never seek to store treasures in heaven by selling all their possessions and giving them to the poor.

What God values as wealth is love and compassion....not bank accounts, clithes, houses or cars.

The Jews rejected Jesus because they wanted a political earthy king, but Jesus reigns upon His throne in heaven.

How many people recognize His current Kingship?

Hi Ariel, Your question is a good one. How many people recognize His current Kingship? For myself., I see God as my Father because of Jesus my Advocate. I see my relationship not as servant or slave but as a son. All because of Jesus.

Jesus is the One who made it possible for us to come to God's throne of grace and find help in time of need at all times and in all places. Because of Jesus., our Great High Priest we have total access (forever) to God the Father and many Christians don't know that blessed truth.

Jesus is our Guarantor to this new covenant of grace that allows us all the blessings and none of the curses. Jesus paid for all the wrath of God for sin. Jesus took it all and became a curse for us on the tree. It's a shame so many of us don't take the gift as our own and walk and work from a place OF victory that Jesus secured for us.


Instead., many are trying to work FOR victory. It doesn't work. Jesus is the Advocate and the Author of our salvation. Many good Christians see themselves as unworthy and are trying to daily make themselves worthy. But now God calls us righteous and worthy in Christ. Many believers don't know who they are in Christ and are walking out their Christian lives as paupers and slaves and orphans when the Bible says whom the Son has made free., is free indeed.

Jesus has set us free from the power and judgment and curse of sin and now we are children of light with all the rights Jesus died to give us. Praise the Lord for He is good., His mercies endure forever.

 

[Depleted]

You're a sweetie Stones., and you have much more patience than me. Bless you sissy.

You don't need much patience to answer a simple question. Yes or No will do fine. More, if you want to, but I'm waiting for that answer, and will keep asking until you answer.

(And after asking for 13 pages, and you supposedly answering, and yet never answered, there is no excuse not to answer it now.)

Do you believe this? Do you believe the very first sentence Ellis wrote under his very first subsection?

Originally Posted by joaniemarie

#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission.

 

[Depleted]

Or.... maybe they read what Mr. Ellis was saying and appreciated it because they ARE big on Biblical soundness....And maybe.... they don't see Job the same as many do here because maybe he isn't going by the doctrines of men?

Because God does not give just to take away and that when Job made that statement about God., it was Job's ideas about God and not the truth of what God is or does. Job said many wrong things about God in the beginning of his journey of learning about God. (just as many of us have) And Job had yet to learn the truth about the goodness and kindness and loveliness of God.

That's my opinion on P.Ellis. I like what he says and have read him out all the way through much of his posts so I know he is not a fly by night heretic by any means. Personally., I've never put much on awards but people get them for a reason and all the Christians who make up the Guild of Christian Writers seem to think Paul is worthy of a silver metal award... although people on this thread have no use for him or his writings.

LOL the guy can't catch a break no matter what he writes or how many awards he gets or how much investigation is done... he's found to be innocent of being a liar yet still he's a shyster according to many here. All I can do is shake my head and beThankful the brothers and sisters in the body of Christ are not limited to this thread.

Thank you Marc for taking the time to investigate the paper trail. And thank you for agreeing to disagree.

It wasn't a "they." It was Mr. Jenkin's baby. He bought it. He hired the writers and editors and taught others how to write through it. So there is no "they" with his awards. It was him.

And given "Left Behind series," it certainly wasn't based on doctrinal soundness. It is based on writing ability. That's what writing guilds/associations do -- work on writing abilities.

 

[joaniemarie]

Common misconception of God:

God owes righteous folks who do what God tells them health, wealth and worldly goods to spend on their adulterous pleasures.

****

Luke 17
5 The emissaries said to the Lord, “Increase our trust.” 6 The Lord replied, “If you had trust as tiny as a mustard seed, you could say to this fig tree, ‘Be uprooted and replanted in the sea!’ and it would obey you. 7 If one of you has a slave tending the sheep or plowing, when he comes back from the field, will you say to him, ‘Come along now, sit down and eat’? 8 No, you’ll say, ‘Get my supper ready, dress for work, and serve me until I have finished eating and drinking; after that, you may eat and drink.’ 9 Does he thank the slave because he did what he was told to do? No! 10 It’s the same with you — when you have done everything you were told to do, you should be saying, ‘We’re just ordinary slaves, we have only done our duty.’”

****

Other translations call "ordinary servants" unprofitable like the one who buried his talent under ground.

The truth is Jesus is the Author of a new covenant. Under the old covenant of law., man was blessed when he followed the law and when he failed., sacrifices had to be made., a blood covering. Something always needed to be done to get forgiven for a time until the next sacrifices were again needed to cover up the other newer sins for the coming days a head. We are not under the requirements of the old covenant of law anymore. The requirement of the new covenant of grace is "faith" in Christ.

Jesus is the guarantee of a better covenant. The former priests died out. But Jesus on the other hand abides FOREVER. He holds His Priesthood forever. He lives after the power of an endless life., always making intercession for us. He is the One who did the work and said it is finished. No more sacrifices... no more works needed. He took our sins and now they are all forgiven. Read Hebrews 7 and 8 all the way through. He is our Anchor for the soul. So much does God the Father want us to know we are secure in Christ. Better promises... better "blood"

 

[joaniemarie]

Not owes. Promises. The benefits of our salvation. The atonement.


Bless the Lord, O My Soul

Psa 103:1 A Psalm of David.Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, blesshis holy name.


Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:


Psa 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


Psa 103:4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;


Psa 103:5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.


Psa 103:6 The LORD executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.


Psa 103:7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.


Psa 103:8 The LORD ismerciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.


Psa 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.


Psa 103:10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.


Psa 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, sogreat is his mercy toward them that fear him.


Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.


Psa 103:13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.


Psa 103:14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

Amen., Jesus has secured the promises in Himself for us under a new and living way. We are no more cursed no more guilty. Jesus died and rose again for us paying for our penalty of sin and all that went with it. Our part in this new covenant is to walk by faith and not by sight. Believe in the things that are not seen... our minds need to be renewed to live this way. Heb.11:1 He did what we could not do. He is the Guarantor of the new covenant. Amen!

 

[joaniemarie]

If Job didn't sin with his words of self justification, then why did he repent? Why did God say that he spoke words without knowledge?

David was called a man after God's own heart..,does that mean he was sinless and never needed to be rebuked by one of God's prophets?

Elihu was to Job like the prophet Nathan to David.

Job did really well until his friends started attacking him...then he went into the defensive and eventually they pushed him into sinful speech.

imo., Job needed to learn about himself and his own pride in light of the truth of who God is. Job needed to learn about God's love and forgiveness . Job feared for his sons and worried about them. Was afraid God would zap them so Job made sacrifices for them all the time. Giving to get from God never works. Job's idea of God was wrong and in the end of the book of Job., Job comes around.