Some common misconceptions about God;

[joaniemarie]

Joanie, I have read you post in the past about being hurt in confusion about God's Word. That wasn't a stab in the dark.

Honestly, you aren't doing so bad a job of distorting some of the beliefs of believers like me yourself. I have consistently said I believe the Lord can and still does all the miracles you have listed.

The qualitative difference is that I believe ALL those miracles happen in accord with the Will of God, which may not always jive with the will of me. I am willing to surrender to Him, knowing that He has my best interests at Heart.

Meditate on this verse Joanie:
1 John 5:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

Confidence and Compassion in Prayer

14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, He hears us.

Now I have heard the twisting of Paul's account of God saying NO to him when he prayed 3 times to remove his thorn in the flesh. But it really is just that. TWISTING.

What CAN'T be twisted is the Father's silence, which equates to a no, when His Son asked Him 3 times to take the cup of the Cross from Him.

If God can say no to His Son's request, WHICH RESULTED IN THE SON'S ULTIMATE GLORY, what makes you think He can't say no to us knowing that it will be for OUR ultimate good?

Hi Penn.,

What I don't get is what does my personal past that brought me to understanding the love of God have to do with my posts and if they are true or not? If they are valid or not? Does my past some how refute who I listen to and enjoy hearing making them heretics ? Do we share our personal weaknesses here as we give testimony of how God has overcome for us in our lives just to have other brothers and sisters go back and bring up our past to some how prove we have no validity in the faith we share?

I never said you don't believe or you don't have faith. I said we disagree and then I went on to say what I firmly believe in and why. The qualitative difference being I believe it is God's will to heal all the time and you and others don't. That is the difference. There is no twisting of God's plain and clear will in the Bible there are things He wants us clearly to know and have confidence in. BUT there are many interpretations of these verses on healing and protection.

I believe in healing being paid for in the atonement. Just like we have been given a spirit of power and love and a sound mind. Romans 8:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For [the Spirit which] you have now received [is] not a spirit of slavery to put you once more in bondage to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption [the Spirit producing sonship] in [the bliss of] which we cry, Abba (Father)! Father!


How those gifts we got when we were saved work out of each of us depends on our walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh. It depends on being transformed in the renewing of our minds... we all will be doing that for all our lives and some are further along than others. None of us have fully arrived yet. I'm not by any means where I want to be in this but I do know it's His will that I have faith for it.

I can post the verses on healing and cover this page and I've done it many times before. But many here do not claim those verses as theirs the way I and others do who believe in healing in the atonement. The thorn in Paul's flesh is not IMO God giving him a thorn., it was other people satan sent following Paul in his ministry who kept refuting and disturbing the teaching each time he left a group of believers scoffers came in and tried to un do what he preached.

If you look up the phrase "thorns in the flesh" you can see it's in relation to annoying people or things . I do not believe God ever gives us thorns in our flesh. We are given every opportunity for walking out the victory Jesus has won for us. It is not valid to say God would send Jesus to pay for all these things so we could walk in victory only to go against the very Son's work on the cross and strike us with tribulations., sickness., sorrow confusion and death.

Tribulations will come but they come from 3 places... 1. The world.... 2. The flesh.... 3. The devil. Not God.
But there are those here on this thread who hold to their belief that it is God. I am not one of them. God promises to love us., to guide us... to protect us... to love us... When we pray for an egg would He give us a snake or a stone? No. He has given us all things pertaining to life and Godliness. Though a 1000 may fall at your side and 10,000 at your right hand it will not come upon you....

I believe God is glorified in His Son and when we allow Jesus to live His life through us as it says in Gal.2:20 we bring glory to God. When we allow Him to love us and we trust in His love for us we bring Him glory. We don't bring Him glory when we blame Him for evil things in the world or in our lives. When we don't trust His love for us and His good intentions for us. Adam and Eve fell big time for that. We need to see their mistake and walk better.
[SUP]0 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.





Psalm 91

He who [SUP][a][/SUP]dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall remain stable and fixed under the shadow of the Almighty [Whose power no foe can withstand].
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will say of the Lord, He is my Refuge and my Fortress, my God; on Him I lean and rely, and in Him I [confidently] trust!
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For [then] He will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence.
[SUP]4 [/SUP][Then] He will cover you with His pinions, and under His wings shall you trust and find refuge; His truth and His faithfulness are a shield and a buckler.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]You shall not be afraid of the terror of the night, nor of the arrow (the evil plots and slanders of the wicked) that flies by day,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Nor of the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor of the destruction and sudden death that surprise and lay waste at noonday.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]A thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not come near you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Only a spectator shall you be [yourself inaccessible in the secret place of the Most High] as you witness the reward of the wicked.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Because you have made the Lord your refuge, and the Most High your dwelling place,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]There shall no evil befall you, nor any plague or calamity come near your tent.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For He will give His angels [especial] charge over you to accompany and defend and preserve you in all your ways [of obedience and service].
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They shall bear you up on their hands, lest you dash your foot against a stone.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]You shall tread upon the lion and adder; the young lion and the serpent shall you trample underfoot.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because he has set his love upon Me, therefore will I deliver him; I will set him on high, because he knows and understands My name [has a personal knowledge of My mercy, love, and kindness—trusts and relies on Me, knowing I will never forsake him, no, never].
[SUP]15 [/SUP]He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]With long life will I satisfy him and show him My salvation.

 

[joaniemarie]

Waves and hugs all around! I read the other posts full of guess-ti-mations about motives. It's just amazing what you guys wrote., so there are no words for me to say in response. I've already posted exactly what I believe and why.

If you guys don't agree than that is up to you. I don't agree with you guys either on this topic but I will not call you heretics or question your heart motives or your salvation. Or make guess-ti-mations on your personal lives and what causes you to believe the way you do. We do not know each other well enough for that. We don't go to the same churches and we are not even in some cases from the same country. So I will keep praying for you that God would open our minds of understanding and that Jesus would be seen in us.

John 16:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future].

Romans 8:5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][a][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][b][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][c][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].

 

[7777pinacled]

Waves and hugs all around! I read the other posts full of guess-ti-mations about motives. It's just amazing what you guys wrote., so there are no words for me to say in response. I've already posted exactly what I believe and why.

If you guys don't agree than that is up to you. I don't agree with you guys either on this topic but I will not call you heretics or question your heart motives or your salvation. Or make guess-ti-mations on your personal lives and what causes you to believe the way you do. We do not know each other well enough for that. We don't go to the same churches and we are not even in some cases from the same country. So I will keep praying for you that God would open our minds of understanding and that Jesus would be seen in us.

John 16:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future].

Romans 8:5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][a][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][b][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][c][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].

[FONT=&quot]"So I will keep praying for you that God would open our minds of understanding and that Jesus would be seen in us."


[/FONT]us?

someone is not well

 

[7777pinacled]

"So I will keep praying for you that God would open our minds of understanding and that Jesus would be seen in us."


us?

someone is not well

1 Corinthians 2:16 for, "Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[7777pinacled]

Waves and hugs all around! I read the other posts full of guess-ti-mations about motives. It's just amazing what you guys wrote., so there are no words for me to say in response. I've already posted exactly what I believe and why.

If you guys don't agree than that is up to you. I don't agree with you guys either on this topic but I will not call you heretics or question your heart motives or your salvation. Or make guess-ti-mations on your personal lives and what causes you to believe the way you do. We do not know each other well enough for that. We don't go to the same churches and we are not even in some cases from the same country. So I will keep praying for you that God would open our minds of understanding and that Jesus would be seen in us.

John 16:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future].

Romans 8:5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][a][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][b][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][c][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].

I'll say it once more, elihu in the account iyov is a filthy liar.
And anyone who says otherwise is a blasphemer of the Ruach Haqodosh(Holy Spirit

 

[Depleted]

Since the WoFers have yet to answer this, I will keep asking until I get an answer.

Do you believe this? Do you believe the very first sentence Ellis wrote under his very first subsection?

Originally Posted by joaniemarie

#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission.



And, to be clear, if you do, that proves two things:
1. You don't know God's word.
2. You are out to teach a false gospel.

I don't use the word often because people absconded the word into meaning some future boogeyman, but in this case it fits with the true meaning of the word. (Not boogeyman meaning.)

Paul Ellis isn't merely a lousy teacher. He is antichrist!!!

So, do you believe Ellis's statement?

Originally Posted by joaniemarie

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission.

 

[PennEd]

Hi Penn.,

What I don't get is what does my personal past that brought me to understanding the love of God have to do with my posts and if they are true or not? If they are valid or not? Does my past some how refute who I listen to and enjoy hearing making them heretics ? Do we share our personal weaknesses here as we give testimony of how God has overcome for us in our lives just to have other brothers and sisters go back and bring up our past to some how prove we have no validity in the faith we share?

I never said you don't believe or you don't have faith. I said we disagree and then I went on to say what I firmly believe in and why. The qualitative difference being I believe it is God's will to heal all the time and you and others don't. That is the difference. There is no twisting of God's plain and clear will in the Bible there are things He wants us clearly to know and have confidence in. BUT there are many interpretations of these verses on healing and protection.

I believe in healing being paid for in the atonement. Just like we have been given a spirit of power and love and a sound mind. Romans 8:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For [the Spirit which] you have now received [is] not a spirit of slavery to put you once more in bondage to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption [the Spirit producing sonship] in [the bliss of] which we cry, Abba (Father)! Father!


How those gifts we got when we were saved work out of each of us depends on our walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh. It depends on being transformed in the renewing of our minds... we all will be doing that for all our lives and some are further along than others. None of us have fully arrived yet. I'm not by any means where I want to be in this but I do know it's His will that I have faith for it.

I can post the verses on healing and cover this page and I've done it many times before. But many here do not claim those verses as theirs the way I and others do who believe in healing in the atonement. The thorn in Paul's flesh is not IMO God giving him a thorn., it was other people satan sent following Paul in his ministry who kept refuting and disturbing the teaching each time he left a group of believers scoffers came in and tried to un do what he preached.

If you look up the phrase "thorns in the flesh" you can see it's in relation to annoying people or things . I do not believe God ever gives us thorns in our flesh. We are given every opportunity for walking out the victory Jesus has won for us. It is not valid to say God would send Jesus to pay for all these things so we could walk in victory only to go against the very Son's work on the cross and strike us with tribulations., sickness., sorrow confusion and death.

Tribulations will come but they come from 3 places... 1. The world.... 2. The flesh.... 3. The devil. Not God.
But there are those here on this thread who hold to their belief that it is God. I am not one of them. God promises to love us., to guide us... to protect us... to love us... When we pray for an egg would He give us a snake or a stone? No. He has given us all things pertaining to life and Godliness. Though a 1000 may fall at your side and 10,000 at your right hand it will not come upon you....

I believe God is glorified in His Son and when we allow Jesus to live His life through us as it says in Gal.2:20 we bring glory to God. When we allow Him to love us and we trust in His love for us we bring Him glory. We don't bring Him glory when we blame Him for evil things in the world or in our lives. When we don't trust His love for us and His good intentions for us. Adam and Eve fell big time for that. We need to see their mistake and walk better.
[SUP]0 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.





Psalm 91

He who [SUP][a][/SUP]dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall remain stable and fixed under the shadow of the Almighty [Whose power no foe can withstand].
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will say of the Lord, He is my Refuge and my Fortress, my God; on Him I lean and rely, and in Him I [confidently] trust!
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For [then] He will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence.
[SUP]4 [/SUP][Then] He will cover you with His pinions, and under His wings shall you trust and find refuge; His truth and His faithfulness are a shield and a buckler.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]You shall not be afraid of the terror of the night, nor of the arrow (the evil plots and slanders of the wicked) that flies by day,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Nor of the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor of the destruction and sudden death that surprise and lay waste at noonday.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]A thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not come near you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Only a spectator shall you be [yourself inaccessible in the secret place of the Most High] as you witness the reward of the wicked.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Because you have made the Lord your refuge, and the Most High your dwelling place,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]There shall no evil befall you, nor any plague or calamity come near your tent.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For He will give His angels [especial] charge over you to accompany and defend and preserve you in all your ways [of obedience and service].
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They shall bear you up on their hands, lest you dash your foot against a stone.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]You shall tread upon the lion and adder; the young lion and the serpent shall you trample underfoot.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because he has set his love upon Me, therefore will I deliver him; I will set him on high, because he knows and understands My name [has a personal knowledge of My mercy, love, and kindness—trusts and relies on Me, knowing I will never forsake him, no, never].
[SUP]15 [/SUP]He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]With long life will I satisfy him and show him My salvation.

Alright Joanie. Peace to you. Be blessed.

 

[joaniemarie]

Here's a nice long post concerning our mortal bodies being a tent to house our spirit man who we really are because we are now new creations in Christ... old things have passed away behold all things have become new. I agree with this post below.

Death is sin’s wage, so if sin has been dealt with at the cross, why do people still die? Good question!
I’ve seen sick people healed by the grace of God. I’ve seen deaf ears and blind eyes opened. But everyone still dies. Why is that? If Christ’s sacrifice undid Adam’s sin, why do people still die? If last Adam is greater than first Adam, why does death still take us all?

It’s a good question, but understand that it is an earthly question. It is shaped by our earthly point of view. Jesus had a different point of view:
Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. (Joh 5:24)
Has crossed over. Past tense. It’s already happened. In Adam, we lived on death row. We were born into a dying race. But whoever believes in Jesus has crossed over from death row to new life in him.
Yet we still die. Since Jesus doesn’t lie, how do we reconcile his words of life with our bodies of death?

Some explain it by saying your spirit is saved but your body is not yet saved. I don’t see it that way. I don’t believe in partial salvations. When you were saved, you were made into a new person and the old has gone (2 Cor 5:17). The gift of salvation doesn’t come to us on the installment plan. Paul said, “The new has come.” Whatever salvation is, it has arrived. You are either saved or you need to be. You are either in the kingdom or out of it. You are either one with the Lord or separated from him.

Others say we die out of ignorance, that we’re actually supposed to be immortal here and now. “Christians aren’t ever supposed to die.” Well if that were true, where are the first century evangelists and apostles? Why aren’t we hearing from the apostles who weren’t martyred, like John?

(By the way, wouldn’t that be cool? “Hey guys, we have this 2000-year-old dude speaking at the Men’s Breakfast this Friday. Interested?”)
So if salvation doesn’t come in installments, and if we have already received every spiritual blessing in Christ (Eph 1:3), why do we still die?

A tent, not a home

Think about what happened when you were born again. You repented and believed the good news with your whole heart. With the aid of the Holy Spirit, you came to see Jesus as he really is and you changed your unbelieving mind. This was no small miracle! One moment you were in the dark; the next you were in his wonderful light. One moment you were alienated from the Source of Life; the next your spirit became fused with his. This was a radical change and the implications are huge, as Jesus said. You crossed over. You became a new person. You changed.
But your body did not change.

Here’s the point: You are not your body. Your body is an earthsuit which you wear for a time but which wears out and will eventually need replacing.
If you have ever been camping, you will know the difference between a tent and a home. A tent is a temporary dwelling place while your home is your permanent dwelling place. Your physical body is a tent. It is a temporary habitation useful for this brief camping trip called earthly life. However, it is not your permanent home.

While he walked this earth, Jesus wore an earthsuit like everybody else, but he’s not wearing one now. He doesn’t need one. He has something better. When he returns we shall see him as he really is. And wonder of wonders, we shall be like him (1 John 3:2).
In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. (1 Cor 15:52-53)

The New Testament writers all understood that our physical bodies are temporary while we are eternal beings who live forever. Like garments that wear out, our bodies will one day need to be replaced and Paul says the change will happen instantly, in the twinkling of an eye. The older and more worn out my body gets, the more I look forward to that sudden change!

Two kings, two bodies
Thanks to King Adam’s regrettable choice, nearly everything in this world operates under the law of sin and death (Rom 5:12). That includes your body but it does not include you (see Rom 8:2). Remember, you are not your body and, like Christ, you are not of this world (John 8:23, Php 3:20):
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. (Php 3:20-21)

The Greek word for “lowly” stems from a word that means to depress or humiliate. Paul is saying, our earthly bodies are depressing. They’re humiliating. (If you don’t believe this, just wait!) But our new bodies will be as glorious as Christ’s body – they will be strikingly beautiful. That sounds good to me!

Don’t think for one minute that I’m one of those people trying to escape this rotten planet. I’m not. I love it here and I’ve got a fulfilling job to do (the Great Commission, remember?). The Good News is not “we’ve got a ticket on the heavenly-bound life-boat,” but that Christ is our life. Eternal life is knowing him and I am escaping to that reality, which is here and now.
So, two take-aways:
(i) We have a glorious new body to look forward to, one that will never wear out or suffer arthritis or get fat, wrinkled, and decrepit.
(ii) Thanks to King Jesus, we have already left death row. Death no longer has the last word.

Don’t fear Marvell’s chariot
Andrew Marvell may be conscious of “time’s winged chariot hurrying near,” coming to take him to the beauty-less deserts of eternity, but we need not fear what he fears. For those who are in Christ, death is but a changing room where we shrug off the mortal coil and are clothed in incorruptible glory.
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory. Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” (1 Cor 15:54-55)

If you are in Christ, then Jesus has already made you new. But understand that the Great King is in the business of making all things new (Rev 21:5).
Healings are wonderful – they give us a taste of heaven-on-earth – but they are little more than repair jobs for tents. Eventually, your tent is going to reach the point where it can’t be fixed or stitched back together. That’s natural and not to be feared. Some things in this world can’t be mended.

But the good news is that Jesus is the Great Redeemer who is making everything new. This is why we can look forward to a new heavenly earth, the home of righteousness (2 Pet 3:13), and a new body in which to enjoy it.



Agree with this pretty much 100% Appreciate Paul E. taking the time to write it out in 2013

 

[Chester]

Waves and hugs all around! I read the other posts full of guess-ti-mations about motives. It's just amazing what you guys wrote., so there are no words for me to say in response. I've already posted exactly what I believe and why.

If you guys don't agree than that is up to you. I don't agree with you guys either on this topic but I will not call you heretics or question your heart motives or your salvation. Or make guess-ti-mations on your personal lives and what causes you to believe the way you do. We do not know each other well enough for that. We don't go to the same churches and we are not even in some cases from the same country. So I will keep praying for you that God would open our minds of understanding and that Jesus would be seen in us.

John 16:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future].

Romans 8:5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][a][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][b][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][c][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].

Joaniemarie,

First of all, your attitude and response is super and Christ-like. I do not agree with your teachings but respect you as a person. I am sad if some have questioned your salvation - I guess they may do that . . . but as you said, we don't even vaguely know who the other person is from an internet posting. (I could be a Buddhist "pretending" to be a Christian - lol! -- now don't start calling me that - because I am not! - but my point is you don't know no matter what I type with my fingers!)

But then I do strongly oppose what you are posting and teaching. And with 100 threads that you have started since Jan. 7, 2017 it is quite clear (to me at least) that your purpose for being here is not primarily to learn from others, but to try to influence and teach others your views. That motive isn't bad or wrong. You may do that.

But then I (and others) feel very strongly that your views (about healing being in the atonement, and other things . . . ) are unbiblical, will lead people astray and into depression, and may even lead people away from Christ. That is why we have and will continue to write our views when you post.

 

[Depleted]

Since the WoFers have yet to answer this, I will keep asking until I get an answer.

Do you believe this? Do you believe the very first sentence Ellis wrote under his very first subsection?

Originally Posted by joaniemarie

#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission.



And, to be clear, if you do, that proves two things:
1. You don't know God's word.
2. You are out to teach a false gospel.

I don't use the word often because people absconded the word into meaning some future boogeyman, but in this case it fits with the true meaning of the word. (Not boogeyman meaning.)

Paul Ellis isn't merely a lousy teacher. He is antichrist!!!

So, do you believe Ellis's statement?

Originally Posted by joaniemarie

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission.

 

[Speak2Me]

I'm still tryin to figure out why is it when someone acts good, it's taken at face value without question.

Isn't it confusing when someone acts good & then spews heresy outta their mouth?

The Pope acts good, but we know how he is. His fruits speak volumes of rebellion.

If a tree's fruit is bad, so's the tree.

 

[joaniemarie]

I posted this before Depleted., but I will post it again for you. I totally believe that the Bible says God gave the care taking of the planet to Adam and Eve and they were duped by the devil and gave it over to him. They didn't believe God cared for or loved them enough to provide for them. They didn't trust God.

That is why we have tribulations in this life because Romans 5:12 says; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.

When we get saved we are put back in right relationship to God (and then some) we become sons much better than Adam and Eve were. We are partakers of the divine nature

2 Peter 1:3-4 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.


I don't believe God offered up Job as some kind of sacrifice or for Job to prove himself for God. That goes against what I know about Jesus and I get all my information about God when I look at Jesus. I believe as does Ellis and Tompkins that God stated a fact that the devil set his heart against Job. I agree with the way Young's translates the verses in Job.


Below is part of a book review on a book called Understanding the Book of Job by Tom Tompkins. If you want to read more follow the links. I see no lies here at all. No false doctrine., no heresy. What you see is up to you.



If you’re suffering, you must have done something bad. God must be punishing you.” That must be one of the oldest lies in history. Here’s another. “God is using these hard times to teach you humility.” These lies can be traced back to one of the oldest and most misunderstood stories in the Bible – the story of Job. As I’m sure you know, Job was a man who lost everything. The Book of Job is not mainly about his loss, but how he tried to process his loss with the help of three religious friends.

When I wrote my Job post a year and a half ago I had no idea that so many Christians would get upset by me telling them that God does not take away his good gifts. (To be honest, I wasn’t the first to say that. I stole that revelation from Romans 11:29: “God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.” So if it makes you angry, take it up with the other Paul.) If you missed that post, here’s the short version; God does not give and take away. The only thing He’ll take off you is your sin, shame, and sickness.

I also had no idea that Tom Tompkins was writing a little gem entitled Understanding the Book of Job. In his book, Tompkins places the blame for Job’s woes squarely at the feet of the Devil:

Much of what Job’s friends told him exactly what we hear to today… While Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar did not condemn God, they did accuse and condemn Job. They were wrong to do so as it was not God or Job’s fault that the terrible events had taken place. Let’s not forget that none of these men had a revelation of the Devil. If the name “Satan” had been mentioned to any of them, they probably would have responded with “Who?” (pp.86,95)

“How convenient to blame the Devil,” you may say. “Surely God could have stopped Satan. Surely God set Job up by boasting about him.” Actually neither is true. Read the Job account in a literal translation such as Young’s and you will see that Satan came gunning for him:

And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, “Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?” (Job 1:8, YLT)

Satan had set his heart against Job. “So why didn’t God stop the Devil?” Good question. We might also ask, “Why doesn’t God stop earthquakes or famines or wars?” The answer is, not everything that happens is God’s responsibility. He left the planet in Adam’s control and Adam handed it to the Devil. Satan went for Job because he could. When God said, “All that he has is in thy power” (Job 1:12, see also 2:6), He wasn’t handing Job over to Satan – God doesn’t do deals with the Devil! – He was simply stating a fact. The whole unredeemed “world is under the control of the evil one” (1 Joh 5:19).

 

[joaniemarie]

[SUP]
1 John 5:19-20

9 [/SUP]We know [positively] that we are of God, and the whole world [around us] is under the power of the evil one.
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]And we [have seen and] know [positively] that the Son of God has [actually] come to this world and has given us understanding and insight [progressively] to perceive (recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). This [Man] is the true God and Life

 

[PennEd]

I'm still tryin to figure out why is it when someone acts good, it's taken at face value without question.

Isn't it confusing when someone acts good & then spews heresy outta their mouth?

The Pope acts good, but we know how he is. His fruits speak volumes of rebellion.

If a tree's fruit is bad, so's the tree.

Well, isn't the reverse also true? Why are the supposed saved, who have the right doctrine, NOT following 1 Corinthians 13?

 

[joaniemarie]

Joaniemarie,

First of all, your attitude and response is super and Christ-like. I do not agree with your teachings but respect you as a person. I am sad if some have questioned your salvation - I guess they may do that . . . but as you said, we don't even vaguely know who the other person is from an internet posting. (I could be a Buddhist "pretending" to be a Christian - lol! -- now don't start calling me that - because I am not! - but my point is you don't know no matter what I type with my fingers!)

But then I do strongly oppose what you are posting and teaching. And with 100 threads that you have started since Jan. 7, 2017 it is quite clear (to me at least) that your purpose for being here is not primarily to learn from others, but to try to influence and teach others your views. That motive isn't bad or wrong. You may do that.

But then I (and others) feel very strongly that your views (about healing being in the atonement, and other things . . . ) are unbiblical, will lead people astray and into depression, and may even lead people away from Christ. That is why we have and will continue to write our views when you post.

Hi Chester., The truth will never lead us astray. It may cause us to have to look at our long held religious man made doctrines however. And yes., that can be difficult to feel like you're wandering out into the unknown. But the Holy Spirit will never lead us where He isn't or where He won't take care of us 100%. He does it better than we or any one on earth could ever do. No one can take care of us like Him. He is the Teacher., Guide., Comforter., We can put our full trust in Him.

I have confidence that He will lead each one of us where we need to go and He is more than able to do the job He was sent to do. John 16:8-13

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when He comes, He will convict and convince the world and bring demonstration to it about sin and about righteousness (uprightness of heart and right standing with God) and about judgment:
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]About sin, because they do not believe in Me [trust in, rely on, and adhere to Me];
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]About righteousness (uprightness of heart and right standing with God), because I go to My Father, and you will see Me no longer;
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]About judgment, because the ruler (evil genius, prince) of this world [Satan] is judged and condemned and sentence already is passed upon him.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]I have still many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them or to take them upon you or to grasp them now.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future].


The Holy Spirit I've discovered convicts the believer of our righteousness not sin. He never condemns us He always points us to Jesus who IS our righteousness. We will be condemned by the world....the flesh and the devil. Not God.

Read these above verses in context and see that in vs.9 He convicts the world of sin... because they don't know Him... (Jesus) That's not us since we have believed and are not condemned.

Vs.10... about righteousness (that's us Christians because we are the righteousness of God in Christ)

Vs.11... about judgment... because satan the ruler of this world has been judged and condemned already.

I never saw this distinction before in my many years of being a Christian until just recently. I began to see these things when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. And I'm aware there is always more and more to JOYFULLY and eagerly learn from Him. I'm up for it and happy to do so. When we stop learning that is when we should worry.

 

[oldethennew]

and we will point out in Love, 'where are those whom Christ has called to be
in total 'unity' with Him and God The Father?'

and where are those whom obey the scriptures that tell us that we are to listen and obey
The Holy Spirit? and not spend our precious, limited, time, seeking and believing every
wind of doctrine that suits our own life styles and puts us in our self appointed 'comfort zones'???

in our walk with our Saviour, we have to realize that satan will never give-up his 'counterfeit' ways,
which so many fall victim to when not grounded in His Holy Faith...

 

[stonesoffire]

For Nehemiah

;#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Joanie:
Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission.

Stones:
The Adversary answered ADONAI, “Is it for nothing that Iyov fears God? 10 You’ve put a protective hedge around him, his house and everything he has. You’ve prospered his work, and his livestock are spread out all over the land. 11 But if you reach out your hand and touch whatever he has, without doubt he’ll curse you to your face!” 12 ADONAI said to the Adversary, “Here! Everything he has is in your hands, except that you are not to lay a finger on his person.”

Satan didn't ask for permission. He accused God of protecting Job, and tried to tempt God Himself to touch Job, saying Job would then curse God. Read it closely if you disagree

Joanie:
In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

stones:
agree

Joanie
The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7).

Stones:
agree. Scripture states this.
Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

Joanie:
#2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

stones:
never heard this and I agree. Nonsense.


#3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do.

Stones:
yep

Joanie:
Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight.

Stones:
Job 32:2 But then Barachel's son Elihu from Buz, one of Ram's descendants, got really angry. He was furious with Job because he had been declaring himself righteous instead of vindicating God.


Joanie:
Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

stones:
Job 33:23 "If there's a messenger appointed to mediate for Job—one out of a thousand—to represent the man's integrity on his behalf,
Job 33:24 to show favor to him and to plead, 'Deliver him from having to go down to the Pit—I know where his ransom is!'
Job 33:25 Let his flesh be rejuvenated as he was in his youth! Let him recover the strength of his youth.
Job 33:26 Let him pray to God and he will accept him; he will appear before him with joyful shouts!"
Job 33:27 "He'll sing to mankind with these words: 'I've sinned. I have twisted what is right. Yet he has not repaid me like I deserve.
Job 33:28 He has redeemed my soul from going down to the Pit; my life will see the light.'
Job 33:29 Indeed God does all these things again and again with a person
Job 33:30 to bring back his soul from the Pit; to light him with the light of life."

Sounds to me like Ellis is right! Elihu gives Job a picture of Gods goodness.

Joanie:
#4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

Joanie:
God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

stones:
makes sense.

Joanie:
First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.
Grace and peace to you.

Stones:
true. Jesus has restored our relationship with Father when we receive this truth. Kings and priests scripture says. And we are to be overcomers. Ellis isn't saying loss of heaven. Rewards for believing what God hath said.

Thank you Dr. Paul Ellis

stones: I echo the thanks. Good teaching.

 

[stonesoffire]

For Nehemiah

;#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Joanie:
Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission.

Stones:
The Adversary answered ADONAI, “Is it for nothing that Iyov fears God? 10 You’ve put a protective hedge around him, his house and everything he has. You’ve prospered his work, and his livestock are spread out all over the land. 11 But if you reach out your hand and touch whatever he has, without doubt he’ll curse you to your face!” 12 ADONAI said to the Adversary, “Here! Everything he has is in your hands, except that you are not to lay a finger on his person.”

Satan didn't ask for permission. He accused God of protecting Job, and tried to tempt God Himself to touch Job, saying Job would then curse God. Read it closely if you disagree

Joanie:
In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

stones:
agree

Joanie
The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7).

Stones:
agree. Scripture states this.
Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

Joanie:
#2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

stones:
never heard this and I agree. Nonsense.


#3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do.

Stones:
yep

Joanie:
Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight.

Stones:
Job 32:2 But then Barachel's son Elihu from Buz, one of Ram's descendants, got really angry. He was furious with Job because he had been declaring himself righteous instead of vindicating God.


Joanie:
Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

stones:
Job 33:23 "If there's a messenger appointed to mediate for Job—one out of a thousand—to represent the man's integrity on his behalf,
Job 33:24 to show favor to him and to plead, 'Deliver him from having to go down to the Pit—I know where his ransom is!'
Job 33:25 Let his flesh be rejuvenated as he was in his youth! Let him recover the strength of his youth.
Job 33:26 Let him pray to God and he will accept him; he will appear before him with joyful shouts!"
Job 33:27 "He'll sing to mankind with these words: 'I've sinned. I have twisted what is right. Yet he has not repaid me like I deserve.
Job 33:28 He has redeemed my soul from going down to the Pit; my life will see the light.'
Job 33:29 Indeed God does all these things again and again with a person
Job 33:30 to bring back his soul from the Pit; to light him with the light of life."

Sounds to me like Ellis is right! Elihu gives Job a picture of Gods goodness.

Joanie:
#4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

Joanie:
God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

stones:
makes sense.

Joanie:
First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.
Grace and peace to you.

Stones:
true. Jesus has restored our relationship with Father when we receive this truth. Kings and priests scripture says. And we are to be overcomers. Ellis isn't saying loss of heaven. Rewards for believing what God hath said.

Thank you Dr. Paul Ellis

stones: I echo the thanks. Good teaching.

bump for Nehemiah...or anyone of you protesters. You all owe Joanie an apology. And Ellis.

Back later...appt. soon.

 

[Nehemiah6]

bump for Nehemiah...or anyone of you protesters. You all owe Joanie an apology. And Ellis.

Actually no. I will show you shortly exactly why this OP was false teaching.

 

[Nehemiah6]

For Nehemiah

Thank you Dr. Paul Ellis

stones: I echo the thanks. Good teaching.

So here is an example of how easily Christians are fooled by false teachers such as Ellis. I was hoping to avoid having to address his false teachings in detail, but since this was the response from stones, I believe it is necessary to deal with this properly and biblically (although it will get lengthy).

FALSE TEACHING #1
Ellis rejects this truth: “Satan needs God’s permission to attack us”
Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission.

Let’s examine the first dialogue between Satan and God, and see that Satan INDIRECTLY sought God’s permission to attack Job.

But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Satan was asking God to destroy Job, but INDIRECTLY he was asking permission to attack Job. That God actually gave him permission is clearly expressed in these words : Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.

The larger question, and the overarching doctrine which has not been addressed by Ellis, is whether Satan is under God’s control or not. And the fact that he is indeed under God’s control is expressed thus: only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Did Satan obey this directive? Absolutely. He did not touch Job personally at this point. And he could not do that because he did not have God’s permission to do so.

Now we come to the second dialogue between Satan and God.

And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

Here we find once again that Satan is under the absolute authority and control of God, and he is forbidden from killing Job. Therefore he afflicts him with “sore boils” only. So, if we stay solely in the book of Job, we see that Satan does need God’s permission to attack us. God set’s the boundaries and Satan must obey. This is not in the Bible only for the sake of Job, but for the sake of all God’s people.

What Ellis failed to tell his readers is that if God had chosen to do so He could have either (a) bound Satan in the bottomless pit right then and there, but did not do so, or (b) God could have cast Satan and all his evil spirits into the Lake of Fire right there, but again chose not to do so. The point is that the Holy Spirit is called “the Restrainer” of Satan, and it is only because God Himself is restraining Satan that there is not as much sin and evil as could be possible. But Satan cannot do as he pleases, which is what Ellis is telling his readers.

FALSE TEACHING #2
Ellis rejects this truth: “God uses Satan...”
Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

Firstly, we should note that Ellis has quoted an inappropriate Scripture to support his idea, and his wording is indeed “nonsense”. Even if Satan was used as a “sheepdog” it has absolutely nothing to do with “fellowship” with God. So he just pulled a Scripture out of thin air to support his teaching. But no one has ever made such a preposterous statement as Satan being a “sheepdog”. The issue is this: Does God uses Satan to bring chastisement upon sinning Christians? And that is the truth which Ellis is denying here. In other words, he is contradicting Scripture.

Please note what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5:

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Please note what is stated in verse 5 -- To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh – to see that Ellis is deliberately misleading his audience by making fun about a “sheepdog”, when he should be soberly reminding them of this passage and what it means. “The destruction of the flesh” could mean anything which would destroy or debilitate the human body. And God allowed this to happen to Job as well as to Paul, and it applies to any of God’s people.

FALSE TEACHING #3
Ellis rejects the truth that: “God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character”
Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do.

To even talk about anyone trying to “trick” God is plainly stupid, but what Ellis is doing here is denying that God used Satan in the case of Job to bring tremendous suffering and physical pain and distress. Ellis is attacking the book of Job and the factual history of how God allowed Satan to attack Job. This is extremely serious, since Ellis wants to create his own false doctrine about Christian suffering and sickness. We should never forget that the book of Job is Scripture, and it is there to teach us life lessons. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.(Romans 15:4).

Did Job’s experience develop his patience and increase his understanding of God and God’s ways? Absolutely. Are we expected to learn patience in the midst of suffering through Job? Absolutely. Please note carefully what James has to say:

Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door. Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Did Job develop a deeper and proper understanding of the sovereignty of God and of God’s ways, humbled himself, and repented of his previous understanding of God ? Absolutely. Are we to take home some vital lessons from Job in this regard? Absolutely.

Then Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. (Job 42:1-6).

Is Job held up to us in Scripture as a truly righteous man (along with Noah and Daniel) who was afflicted in order to learn some necessary lessons about God and His ways? Absolutely. Here is how Job is commended in Scripture (Ezekiel 14:14-20):

Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts: Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast: Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

FALSE TEACHING #4
Ellis rejects the Bible truth that: “God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us”
God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

Another foolish statement from “Dr” Ellis. Has anyone ever said that God works for the devil? And the rest of that statement is just nonsense. A thief would be a thief whether permitted or not permitted by God. So that is just another blasphemous statement which has no relevance whatsoever. But does the Bible teach that God allows sickness and suffering to afflict us? Absolutely. And when a false teacher such as Ellis blatantly denies that, he creates a false hope among gullible Christians.

The best example of a faithful and godly Christian who suffered tremendously and was also afflicted with a physical disability is the apostle Paul. And he describes his own sufferings for us so that we may learn a lesson about God’s love and God’s ways.

Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city,in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.(2 Cor 11:23-30)

Did Paul ask the Lord three times to remove the “thorn” in his flesh (body), and did the Lord refuse to do so? Absolutely. Was that “thorn” (no doubt a physical disability originating with Satan) a source of great pain and discomfort to Paul? Absolutely. How God’s saints and servants always suffered and been subject to sickness? Absolutely. So does Ellis have any biblical basis for his nonsensical teachings? Absolutely not. Indeed we are told by Paul that we will suffer many things, but they will not separate us from the love of God.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 8:35-39)

While we are “conquerors” through Christ in that we do not lose faith under trying circumstances but endure through sufferings, we cannot deny that God will subject us to tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword. But that is exactly what Ellis and his gang of false teachers are denying.
It should be evident that when we know what the Bible teaches about these issues and compare that to what Ellis is teaching, we can see that a false teacher is promoting a false concept of God and then telling us that our understanding from Scripture are “misconceptions”.