The "Days" of Creation

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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#1
Hebrew words, the same as in other languages, can have two or more meanings. An example is the Hebrew word for nose (H639 aph) which can also means anger, for example when the nostrils start flaring. A literal interpretation of 1 Samuel 20:34 is, "And Jonathon rose from the table with a burning nose," where the phrase "burning nose" means a "fierce anger" which is how it appears in the translations. So full marks to the translators. The message is, not to take things too literally.

Here are some more examples.
ברך (curse – bless);

חסד (kindness – disgrace);

רנן (shout for joy – moan (Lam 2:19));

מרזח (revelry (Am 6:7) – lamentation (Jer 16:5));

נבל (distinguished, Arab. (2Sam 25:20) – despicable);

קלס (mock – praise), in the Bible and Ben Sira 11:4 only “mock” but in post-biblical Hebrew and Syriac “praise”;
רגע (disturb – be at rest);

בוקק (luxuriant (Hos 10:1) – empty, waste (Isa 24:3));

מתאב (despise (Am 6:8) – desire);

עזב (leave, forsake – assist, strengthen), both meanings in Ex 23:5; פסח (leap – limp); etc.

Cf. R. Gordis, “Studies in Hebrew Roots of Contrasting Meanings,” JQR 27 (1936), XXX.
In addition there are many words that are spelled the same but are completely different--and sometimes pronounced differently. One example is Bet Shin Resh which in Exodus 12:8 refers to the flesh of the Passover lamb "בָּשָׂר" basar, but the same spelling is used in Isaiah 61:1 בַשֵּׂר -said vasser, and there it means "good news" or "gospel"--interestingly BOTH these sections of scripture are alluded to as fulfilled by Jesus. Posted by BerhaneSelassie

https://forums.catholic.com/t/hebrew-words-that-have-at-least-two-meanings/369317/4


Now we come to the point of this thread which will undoubtedly lead to a debate about the age of the earth, and certainly whether-or-not six twenty-four hour days in our time was sufficient to provide the lush vegetation capable of supporting wildlife like dinosaurs. For example will a tree grow a hundred feet or more in a two days?

The Hebrew word in question is yom which simply means a period of time, either long or short.
yom: day
Original Word: יוֹם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yom
Phonetic Spelling: (yome)

NASB Translation
afternoon* (1), age (8), age* (1), all (1), always* (14), amount* (2), battle (1), birthday* (1), Chronicles* (38), completely* (1), continually* (14), course* (1), daily (22), daily the days (1), day (1115), day of the days (1), day that the period (1), day's (6), day's every day (1), daylight* (1), days (635), days on the day (1), days to day (1), days you shall daily (1), days ago (1), days' (11), each (1), each day (4), entire (2), eternity (1), evening* (1), ever in your life* (1), every day (2), fate (1), first (5), forever* (11), forevermore* (1), full (5), full year (1), future* (1), holiday* (3), later* (2), length (1), life (12), life* (1), lifetime (2), lifetime* (1), live (1), long (2), long as i live (1), long* (11), midday* (1), now (5), older* (1), once (2), period (3), perpetually* (2), present (1), recently (1), reigns (1), ripe* (1), short-lived* (1), so long* (1), some time (1), survived* (2), time (45), time* (1), times* (2), today (172), today* (1), usual (1), very old* (1), when (10), when the days (1), whenever (1), while (3), whole (2), year (10), yearly (5), years (13), yesterday* (1).

I firmly believe that context is vitally important when understanding scripture, and with that in mind I will leave it to others, to decide whether or not ‘day’ means a single rotation of the earth round the sun, which did not exist in the beginning, or whether it means a ‘day’ in the sight of God. Just to add, a day on Venus is 5,832 hours in our time. Light years are something else. Light travels at 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second), and it would take 100,000 years to cross the Milky Way at the speed of light. That is a lot of days. As the word origin says, a day does not necessarily mean 24 hours.
 
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MHz

Banned
Feb 14, 2018
201
1
0
#2
Ever hear the details behind the old earth creation story?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#3
Ever hear the details behind the old earth creation story?
I may have, been on the forums a long time, but I would love it if you would remind me. :)
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#4
Hebrew words, the same as in other languages, can have two or more meanings. An example is the Hebrew word for nose (H639 aph) which can also means anger, for example when the nostrils start flaring. A literal interpretation of 1 Samuel 20:34 is, "And Jonathon rose from the table with a burning nose," where the phrase "burning nose" means a "fierce anger" which is how it appears in the translations. So full marks to the translators. The message is, not to take things too literally.

Here are some more examples.
ברך (curse – bless);

חסד (kindness – disgrace);

רנן (shout for joy – moan (Lam 2:19));

מרזח (revelry (Am 6:7) – lamentation (Jer 16:5));

נבל (distinguished, Arab. (2Sam 25:20) – despicable);

קלס (mock – praise), in the Bible and Ben Sira 11:4 only “mock” but in post-biblical Hebrew and Syriac “praise”;
רגע (disturb – be at rest);

בוקק (luxuriant (Hos 10:1) – empty, waste (Isa 24:3));

מתאב (despise (Am 6:8) – desire);

עזב (leave, forsake – assist, strengthen), both meanings in Ex 23:5; פסח (leap – limp); etc.

Cf. R. Gordis, “Studies in Hebrew Roots of Contrasting Meanings,” JQR 27 (1936), XXX.
In addition there are many words that are spelled the same but are completely different--and sometimes pronounced differently. One example is Bet Shin Resh which in Exodus 12:8 refers to the flesh of the Passover lamb "בָּשָׂר" basar, but the same spelling is used in Isaiah 61:1 בַשֵּׂר -said vasser, and there it means "good news" or "gospel"--interestingly BOTH these sections of scripture are alluded to as fulfilled by Jesus. Posted by BerhaneSelassie

https://forums.catholic.com/t/hebrew-words-that-have-at-least-two-meanings/369317/4


Now we come to the point of this thread which will undoubtedly lead to a debate about the age of the earth, and certainly whether-or-not six twenty-four hour days in our time was sufficient to provide the lush vegetation capable of supporting wildlife like dinosaurs. For example will a tree grow a hundred feet or more in a two days?

The Hebrew word in question is yom which simply means a period of time, either long or short.
yom: day
Original Word: יוֹם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yom
Phonetic Spelling: (yome)

NASB Translation
afternoon* (1), age (8), age* (1), all (1), always* (14), amount* (2), battle (1), birthday* (1), Chronicles* (38), completely* (1), continually* (14), course* (1), daily (22), daily the days (1), day (1115), day of the days (1), day that the period (1), day's (6), day's every day (1), daylight* (1), days (635), days on the day (1), days to day (1), days you shall daily (1), days ago (1), days' (11), each (1), each day (4), entire (2), eternity (1), evening* (1), ever in your life* (1), every day (2), fate (1), first (5), forever* (11), forevermore* (1), full (5), full year (1), future* (1), holiday* (3), later* (2), length (1), life (12), life* (1), lifetime (2), lifetime* (1), live (1), long (2), long as i live (1), long* (11), midday* (1), now (5), older* (1), once (2), period (3), perpetually* (2), present (1), recently (1), reigns (1), ripe* (1), short-lived* (1), so long* (1), some time (1), survived* (2), time (45), time* (1), times* (2), today (172), today* (1), usual (1), very old* (1), when (10), when the days (1), whenever (1), while (3), whole (2), year (10), yearly (5), years (13), yesterday* (1).

I firmly believe that context is vitally important when understanding scripture, and with that in mind I will leave it to others, to decide whether or not ‘day’ means a single rotation of the earth round the sun, which did not exist in the beginning, or whether it means a ‘day’ in the sight of God. Just to add, a day on Venus is 5,832 hours in our time. Light years are something else. Light travels at 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second), and it would take 100,000 years to cross the Milky Way at the speed of light. That is a lot of days. As the word origin says, a day does not necessarily mean 24 hours.
It means 24 hr days. The Fourth Commandnent does not say work for 60 billion years and then take 10 billion years off for a rest:

“Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.
Exodus 20:8*-‬11 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/exo.20.8-11.NLT
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#5
It means 24 hr days. The Fourth Commandnent does not say work for 60 billion years and then take 10 billion years off for a rest:

“Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.
Exodus 20:8*-‬11 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/exo.20.8-11.NLT
That is one of the many meanings of the word yom.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#6
the way i like to look at it is that God created in seven 24 hour days, but created the universe already middle aged

just like Adam was created as an adult or maybe teenager
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#7
the way i like to look at it is that God created in seven 24 hour days, but created the universe already middle aged

just like Adam was created as an adult or maybe teenager
I wonder how long that took?
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#8
That is one of the many meanings of the word yom.
In the immediate context of Gen 1 "evening and morning" are the two epochs of s 24 hr day, and the context of the rest of the Bible shows the word means a 24 hr day. I already gave you the Fourth Commandment. You are being irrational to attach meanings to words that violate their context.
 
F

finaldesire

Guest
#10
Hebrew words, the same as in other languages, can have two or more meanings. An example is the Hebrew word for nose (H639 aph) which can also means anger, for example when the nostrils start flaring. A literal interpretation of 1 Samuel 20:34 is, "And Jonathon rose from the table with a burning nose," where the phrase "burning nose" means a "fierce anger" which is how it appears in the translations. So full marks to the translators. The message is, not to take things too literally.

Here are some more examples.
ברך (curse – bless);

חסד (kindness – disgrace);

רנן (shout for joy – moan (Lam 2:19));

מרזח (revelry (Am 6:7) – lamentation (Jer 16:5));

נבל (distinguished, Arab. (2Sam 25:20) – despicable);

קלס (mock – praise), in the Bible and Ben Sira 11:4 only “mock” but in post-biblical Hebrew and Syriac “praise”;
רגע (disturb – be at rest);

בוקק (luxuriant (Hos 10:1) – empty, waste (Isa 24:3));

מתאב (despise (Am 6:8) – desire);

עזב (leave, forsake – assist, strengthen), both meanings in Ex 23:5; פסח (leap – limp); etc.

Cf. R. Gordis, “Studies in Hebrew Roots of Contrasting Meanings,” JQR 27 (1936), XXX.
In addition there are many words that are spelled the same but are completely different--and sometimes pronounced differently. One example is Bet Shin Resh which in Exodus 12:8 refers to the flesh of the Passover lamb "בָּשָׂר" basar, but the same spelling is used in Isaiah 61:1 בַשֵּׂר -said vasser, and there it means "good news" or "gospel"--interestingly BOTH these sections of scripture are alluded to as fulfilled by Jesus. Posted by BerhaneSelassie

https://forums.catholic.com/t/hebrew-words-that-have-at-least-two-meanings/369317/4


Now we come to the point of this thread which will undoubtedly lead to a debate about the age of the earth, and certainly whether-or-not six twenty-four hour days in our time was sufficient to provide the lush vegetation capable of supporting wildlife like dinosaurs. For example will a tree grow a hundred feet or more in a two days?

The Hebrew word in question is yom which simply means a period of time, either long or short.
yom: day
Original Word: יוֹם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yom
Phonetic Spelling: (yome)

NASB Translation
afternoon* (1), age (8), age* (1), all (1), always* (14), amount* (2), battle (1), birthday* (1), Chronicles* (38), completely* (1), continually* (14), course* (1), daily (22), daily the days (1), day (1115), day of the days (1), day that the period (1), day's (6), day's every day (1), daylight* (1), days (635), days on the day (1), days to day (1), days you shall daily (1), days ago (1), days' (11), each (1), each day (4), entire (2), eternity (1), evening* (1), ever in your life* (1), every day (2), fate (1), first (5), forever* (11), forevermore* (1), full (5), full year (1), future* (1), holiday* (3), later* (2), length (1), life (12), life* (1), lifetime (2), lifetime* (1), live (1), long (2), long as i live (1), long* (11), midday* (1), now (5), older* (1), once (2), period (3), perpetually* (2), present (1), recently (1), reigns (1), ripe* (1), short-lived* (1), so long* (1), some time (1), survived* (2), time (45), time* (1), times* (2), today (172), today* (1), usual (1), very old* (1), when (10), when the days (1), whenever (1), while (3), whole (2), year (10), yearly (5), years (13), yesterday* (1).

I firmly believe that context is vitally important when understanding scripture, and with that in mind I will leave it to others, to decide whether or not ‘day’ means a single rotation of the earth round the sun, which did not exist in the beginning, or whether it means a ‘day’ in the sight of God. Just to add, a day on Venus is 5,832 hours in our time. Light years are something else. Light travels at 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second), and it would take 100,000 years to cross the Milky Way at the speed of light. That is a lot of days. As the word origin says, a day does not necessarily mean 24 hours.
Does any origin story have to be literal, the creation story is a story that tells us the key elements we need to know.

It explains the creator and it's intention.
It explains that humans fell away from this creator
It explains good and evil and it's consequence
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#11
In the immediate context of Gen 1 "evening and morning" are the two epochs of s 24 hr day, and the context of the rest of the Bible shows the word means a 24 hr day. I already gave you the Fourth Commandment. You are being irrational to attach meanings to words that violate their context.
The planets weren't in their fixed orbits like they are today.
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#12
Does any origin story have to be literal, the creation story is a story that tells us the key elements we need to know.

It explains the creator and it's intention.
It explains that humans fell away from this creator
It explains good and evil and it's consequence
Yes, it has to be literal. You do not have a literal Saviour if your Jesus was literally descended from apes.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#14
As the word origin says, a day does not necessarily mean 24 hours.
There was no need for this lengthy dissertation to postulate your faulty idea as stated above. You simply forget that God Himself defined each day according to Hebrew reckoning. "Evening and morning" is stated each time for each day, so that settles the issue of a literal 24-hour day. And to further confirm that this is indeed the correct meaning, the six days were embedded in the Ten Commandments. There should be no further dispute since that was "carved in stone".
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#15
Does any origin story have to be literal, the creation story is a story that tells us the key elements we need to know.
In the case of creation, the "story" has to be literal, factual, and totally accurate, since everything else is connected to this narrative.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#16
Does any origin story have to be literal, the creation story is a story that tells us the key elements we need to know.

It explains the creator and it's intention.
It explains that humans fell away from this creator
It explains good and evil and it's consequence
Good point, the Bible uses idioms, and parables in order to teach us, but wouldn't it be wonderful if the creation account confirmed the findings of the palaeontologists. That would give atheists and others a new respect for the Bible.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#17
Good point, the Bible uses idioms, and parables in order to teach us, but wouldn't it be wonderful if the creation account confirmed the findings of the palaeontologists. That would give atheists and others a new respect for the Bible.
You could give scoffers and unbelievers all the "evidence" and they still would not believe. As Jesus said, they would not believe though one rose from the dead. Christians should accept the Word of God as the final authority and simply proclaim the Gospel. Until Darwin came along, no one doubted the Creation account. And even Darwin had serious misgivings about his own ideas.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#18
You could give scoffers and unbelievers all the "evidence" and they still would not believe. As Jesus said, they would not believe though one rose from the dead. Christians should accept the Word of God as the final authority and simply proclaim the Gospel. Until Darwin came along, no one doubted the Creation account. And even Darwin had serious misgivings about his own ideas.
I believe the Bible is both the final authority and true to life, but a quick glance at any Bible forum will show people arguing of a single verse, simply because their understanding differs over just a few words.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#19
Hebrew words, the same as in other languages, can have two or more meanings. An example is the Hebrew word for nose (H639 aph) which can also means anger, for example when the nostrils start flaring. A literal interpretation of 1 Samuel 20:34 is, "And Jonathon rose from the table with a burning nose," where the phrase "burning nose" means a "fierce anger" which is how it appears in the translations. So full marks to the translators. The message is, not to take things too literally.

Here are some more examples.
ברך (curse – bless);

חסד (kindness – disgrace);

רנן (shout for joy – moan (Lam 2:19));

מרזח (revelry (Am 6:7) – lamentation (Jer 16:5));

נבל (distinguished, Arab. (2Sam 25:20) – despicable);

קלס (mock – praise), in the Bible and Ben Sira 11:4 only “mock” but in post-biblical Hebrew and Syriac “praise”;
רגע (disturb – be at rest);

בוקק (luxuriant (Hos 10:1) – empty, waste (Isa 24:3));

מתאב (despise (Am 6:8) – desire);

עזב (leave, forsake – assist, strengthen), both meanings in Ex 23:5; פסח (leap – limp); etc.

Cf. R. Gordis, “Studies in Hebrew Roots of Contrasting Meanings,” JQR 27 (1936), XXX.
In addition there are many words that are spelled the same but are completely different--and sometimes pronounced differently. One example is Bet Shin Resh which in Exodus 12:8 refers to the flesh of the Passover lamb "בָּשָׂר" basar, but the same spelling is used in Isaiah 61:1 בַשֵּׂר -said vasser, and there it means "good news" or "gospel"--interestingly BOTH these sections of scripture are alluded to as fulfilled by Jesus. Posted by BerhaneSelassie

https://forums.catholic.com/t/hebrew-words-that-have-at-least-two-meanings/369317/4


Now we come to the point of this thread which will undoubtedly lead to a debate about the age of the earth, and certainly whether-or-not six twenty-four hour days in our time was sufficient to provide the lush vegetation capable of supporting wildlife like dinosaurs. For example will a tree grow a hundred feet or more in a two days?

The Hebrew word in question is yom which simply means a period of time, either long or short.
yom: day
Original Word: יוֹם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yom
Phonetic Spelling: (yome)

NASB Translation
afternoon* (1), age (8), age* (1), all (1), always* (14), amount* (2), battle (1), birthday* (1), Chronicles* (38), completely* (1), continually* (14), course* (1), daily (22), daily the days (1), day (1115), day of the days (1), day that the period (1), day's (6), day's every day (1), daylight* (1), days (635), days on the day (1), days to day (1), days you shall daily (1), days ago (1), days' (11), each (1), each day (4), entire (2), eternity (1), evening* (1), ever in your life* (1), every day (2), fate (1), first (5), forever* (11), forevermore* (1), full (5), full year (1), future* (1), holiday* (3), later* (2), length (1), life (12), life* (1), lifetime (2), lifetime* (1), live (1), long (2), long as i live (1), long* (11), midday* (1), now (5), older* (1), once (2), period (3), perpetually* (2), present (1), recently (1), reigns (1), ripe* (1), short-lived* (1), so long* (1), some time (1), survived* (2), time (45), time* (1), times* (2), today (172), today* (1), usual (1), very old* (1), when (10), when the days (1), whenever (1), while (3), whole (2), year (10), yearly (5), years (13), yesterday* (1).

I firmly believe that context is vitally important when understanding scripture, and with that in mind I will leave it to others, to decide whether or not ‘day’ means a single rotation of the earth round the sun, which did not exist in the beginning, or whether it means a ‘day’ in the sight of God. Just to add, a day on Venus is 5,832 hours in our time. Light years are something else. Light travels at 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second), and it would take 100,000 years to cross the Milky Way at the speed of light. That is a lot of days. As the word origin says, a day does not necessarily mean 24 hours.
Greetings PS, I like your account name, short. ;)

From what I have read, the heaven and the earth are not apart of the six days of creation. For in describing the six days of creation there I nothing mentioned about the creation of the earth itself. The scripture states that "the earth was formless and empty," so it was it was already here prior to the things that were created on it. That said, we have no idea how old the earth itself is. But we do know that it is older than the sun, moon and stars, because those where not created until the 4th day. The creation on the earth is what is approximately 6000 years old.

I would also point out that Jesus told us how long a day was:

"Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world's light."

Scripture also states that the completion of each day as "the evening and the morning" as presenting each day. Therefore to say that a day was not a literal 24 hour day, then you would have to apply millions of years to representing one evening and one morning.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#20
Greetings PS, I like your account name, short. ;)

From what I have read, the heaven and the earth are not apart of the six days of creation. For in describing the six days of creation there I nothing mentioned about the creation of the earth itself. The scripture states that "the earth was formless and empty," so it was it was already here prior to the things that were created on it. That said, we have no idea how old the earth itself is. But we do know that it is older than the sun, moon and stars, because those where not created until the 4th day. The creation on the earth is what is approximately 6000 years old.

I would also point out that Jesus told us how long a day was:

"Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world's light."

Scripture also states that the completion of each day as "the evening and the morning" as presenting each day. Therefore to say that a day was not a literal 24 hour day, then you would have to apply millions of years to representing one evening and one morning.
Hi, the universe is about 6 billion years old. The earth followed about 2 billion years later. I did post something on it the other day and will try to find it out again, but things to do first. :)
 
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